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[Dice]

There is only one thing in a videogame that makes me mad. It's when you have a really really tough something, but then if you fail you have a huge process to go through every single time you want to try again. I'm pretty sure Metroid Prime 2 has just tripled the ante on this.

I just reached a point where--from the closest possible save--you have to go through 4 sectors, (two of which are entirely underwater) go into another dimension to adjust something and go back, fighting off tough enemies in 2 of these sectors, then jump waaaay down a huge hole, go through 3 more sectors to get your next upgrade item (gravity boost) and leave before getting to try again on a very hard boss.

I've been frustrated by games in the past, but never has the "try again" process been so long and complicated that I actually thought about giving up on the game altogether. Even though I've been enjoying Echoes quite a lot--at least twice as much as Prime--I think that this may be such a case where I drop the game forever.

Good job Retro, you broke a beautiful game.

 

[pestul]

Try not to die next time.

Seriously.. I know where you're coming from. There are a few games I won't pick up again due to this very reason.

 

[Reilly]

back in my day, you couldn't even save in video games. You had to beat them in one sitting.

 

[Ronok]

Well technically you're the one who died... hehe

But yeah, same thing happened to me in Metroid Prime 1. v.v I ended up picking it up again and started again after deleting my save file in frustration years ago. lol

Oh and ermmm this was after dying only once in this specific point. lol

 

[Timedog]

back in my day, you couldn't even save in video games. You had to beat them in one sitting.

YEAH! Which pretty much made you a master of the game by the time you finally beat it.

 

[Johnas]

The main trick with that fight is timing. Notice that when he flashes red is the only time you're doing damage to him, you have to time it just right (I think I used Super Missiles) or it will hit him and look like it should do damage, but it won't. I think you have to release right before he opens his mouth before he charges you, so it hits him there as soon as he opens up. Go to metroid2002.com and they'll probably have a video of it.

Not at all to derail your thread, but I'm playing DMC1 at the moment and can sort of relate. Stuck on Nelo Angelo third fight, not a difficult thing to play through over and over to get up to him, but I'm just getting tired of doing it.

Give it a few more tries, it's not that hard, no offense though, it just takes getting the hang of. MP2 really is an awesome game.

Then go for hard mode! That's where the real challenge is, especially at the game's end.

 

[Galactic Fork]

back in my day, you couldn't even save in video games. You had to beat them in one sitting.

I was about to say that too... While reading the first post, I flashbacked to the first Ninja Gaiden for the Nintendo. Or this really annoying helicopter game for the Atari. Lose all your lives, then bam! GAME OVER. And by "game over" they mean, "Start over from the beginning you loser! You were on the final boss? Too bad! You shouldn't have sucked!"

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

DMC3 guys, DMC3.

 

[Dice]

back in my day, you couldn't even save in video games. You had to beat them in one sitting.

Please man, don't try to justify horrible game design with some kind of old school elitism. I grew up on Atari, the games you're talking about had an entirely different mindset behind them. Those were always a trial-and-error process and gave you a highscore when you died, so really you were just going for your personal best and eventually you'd be good enough to beat them. It was a mix between endless games like Asteroids and games we have now. Those games were filled with action too, it wasn't just an inane process of slowly going through rooms underwater to try again on a specific challenge.

 

[JRPereira]

YEAH! Which pretty much made you a master of the game by the time you finally beat it.

and it kicked ass. However, my only regret is that they didn't allow you to a unlock level select mode once you beat the game.

 

[Dice]

YEAH! Which pretty much made you a master of the game by the time you finally beat it.

Yeah, see that's what I'm talking about. By time you'd beat a game you could practially do it with your eyes closed (much to the amazement of n00bs... oops, that lingo wasnt around back then). It was a different design and purpose, can't be related to modern games.

 

[Error]

this doesn't compare to chapter 13 of FE PoR... I have cleared the whole fucking stage there were some crows laguz but they were leaving so I though "I'll take out the guy defending the base I doubt the enemy will try to take it they are leaving..." bullfuckinshit, as soon as I took the guy out of the base one crow out of fucking nowhere appears and took my base chapter over I lost have to start the chapter again.

 

[renvi]

DMC3 guys, DMC3.

agree!

 

[Johnas]

DMC3 guys, DMC3.

How is Prime 1 going, my man?

DON'T FAIL ME

 

[Dice]

The main trick with that fight is timing. Notice that when he flashes red is the only time you're doing damage to him, you have to time it just right (I think I used Super Missiles) or it will hit him and look like it should do damage, but it won't. I think you have to release right before he opens his mouth before he charges you, so it hits him there as soon as he opens up. Go to metroid2002.com and they'll probably have a video of it.

Everyone uses super missles on him. The thing is when he charges at you before you can even get your power beam charged, let alone the missle. Then, when he lays off long enough for you to get it, if you get the timing right you'll nail him with it, but even though it hurts him he plows right through anyway. Getting the missle hit as well as dodging is very hard, but I don't have a problem with hard, I have a problem with the long, inane process of trying again.

I might try a couple more times tomorrow, but that will be it if I dont get it. Games are supposed to feel fun, not like doing boring chores, if I wanted to feel that I could work on something in real life with constructive results. If a game has too many chores I'll drop it and lambast the developer for their utter failure no matter how good the rest of the package is.

 

[bumpkin]

back in my day, you couldn't even save in video games. You had to beat them in one sitting.

Memories of the original Mega Man still haunt me.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Personally I'm glad games aren't designed like that anymore, I just don't have the same kind of time or patience it would take to play through a game sans mid level checkpoints, infinite continues, the ability to actually save your progress and what not.

As for the topic at hand, I found Metroid Prime 2 to be pretty frustrating. I almost stopped playing the game because of the final stage of the Spider Ball boss, and there's one you have yet to get to that made me stop playing altogether. It annoyed me to no end to constantly have to retread the same path (however short orlong) to the boss fight adnauseum. A pretty piss poor design choice in my opinion.

I've never bothered to finish the game, and with my GC currently in storage its doubtful I will ever bother to try.

 

[Johnas]

Everyone uses super missles on him. The thing is when he charges at you before you can even get your power beam charged, let alone the missle. Then, when he lays off long enough for you to get it, if you get the timing right you'll nail him with it, but even though it hurts him he plows right through anyway. Getting the missle hit as well as dodging is very hard, but I don't have a problem with hard, I have a problem with the long, inane process of trying again.

I might try a couple more times tomorrow, but that will be it if I dont get it. Games are supposed to feel fun, not like doing boring chores, if I wanted to feel that I could work on something in real life with constructive results. If a game has too many chores I'll drop it and lambast the developer for their utter failure no matter how good the rest of the package is.

Something else I thought about, while you're locked onto him, strafe in the opposite direction that he is heading (if he's pointing left, strafe right, but keep your distance from him) and try to keep him directly in front of you as much as possible. This keeps the greatest distance between him and yourself, giving you a little more time to get out of the way when he charges. You should have plenty of time to charge up the Super Missile while you're strafing.

I personally had an absolute blast with the game, with the exception of one freaking missile expansion I couldn't find on my own. My GOTY 2004 behind MGS3.

 

[JRPereira]

Personally I'm glad games aren't designed like that anymore, I just don't have the same kind of time or patience it would take to play through a game sans mid level checkpoints, infinite continues, the ability to actually save your progress and what not.

Well you gotta remember, some of the games back then could be beaten in 15 minutes.

Dodonpachi for example - great as it is, it's pretty short.

 

[Ronok]

Yup, that's been a real problem with a lot of games for a while now... Some developers have replaced fun with boring processes to make the game longer....... I mean why?

Oh yes, we've got this really fun battle for you to do and it's just around the corner.... Only problem? It's a really fucking long corner..... Stupid games. v.v

But yeah....... I have no idea how I can complain about this when I'm a FFXI addict, but, yeah....... XD

 

[Nightbreeze]

FUCKING ESCORT MISSIONS! FUCK!

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

How is Prime 1 going, my man?

DON'T FAIL ME

My gaming sessions haven't started yet this week with work and all. But it will this Thursday, I'm off until next Friday. Yeah for the Holidays off!! Hopefully I'm get some really good gaming time.

 

[Error]

MP2 is not hard, only boss that I could say is hard and cheap is the boost guardian now that's a cheap fucker the rest of the game is very easy.

 

[Ronok]

My fav escort mission ever...... FFXI - Bastok - Ken....... WTF! >.< He's dying so you cure him.... "Wtf are you saving my life for I'm going home!" *blink* Ok never gunna bother with that one again....... (couldn't be bothered to look up what you were meant to do.... That level of ungreatfulness deserves abandonment. >.>)

 

[LAMBO]

I died about 50 times against the fire and wind sword guys in DMC3, that was the hardest part of the game. I liked having a game kick my ass for a change.

 

[Mashing]

Fuck that... the absolute worse is BOSS GAUNTLETS.

*shakes fist at Viewtiful Joe*

 

[Tarazet]

Well you gotta remember, some of the games back then could be beaten in 15 minutes.

Dodonpachi for example - great as it is, it's pretty short.

If you really know how to play Resident Evil, or Metal Gear Solid, or even Eternal Darkness - some of the unrivaled classics of this era - you can beat them in one sitting and your ass won't even hurt.

 

[Killa Sasa]

FUCKING ESCORT MISSIONS! FUCK!

QFT.

I've stopped playing every Rogue Squadron or other shooter games whenever I got to one of these. They're not as bad in FPSes, but still garbage nonetheless. I can't think of one good escort mission.

And Boss Gauntlets aren't too bad unless they're MegaMan7 like - kill All 8 and the cheapest version of Dr. Wily yet : / VJ at least lets you fill up in between IIRC.

 

[Mashing]

Yeah, escort missions.. hate those too... usually because the one youre escorting has terrible AI. I mean if someone or something waismportant enough to escort you'd think they atleast have some intelligence... otherwise why do I want to bother saving them. Natural selection FTW!

 

[evilromero]

I dunno. MP2E is pretty simple when you know what you're doing. I never experienced your frustration. And I'm doing speed runs on that shit.

 

[shpankey]

This is also one of my pet peeves, and in fact, I refuse to play a game (unless there's a cheat to get me past it) if such a mechanism exists.

This is how a game is made when the developer artificially tries to extend the playtime of the game. They also add lots of backtracking (Metroid Prime does both, and is just one of the many reasons I don't like the game).

It is usually found in Japanese made games, but not always. For some reason, Japanese developers seem to think this is acceptable.

Myself, I prefer to have a checkpoint system that aren't very far apart. Either that or a save anywhere system, which seems to be more of a western developer thing.

To be honest, I like choices... I like options... I like being able to customize the game... I really hate it when the controls are not customizeable... especially when they only have inverted camera's (which is another Japanese developer thing). This is why I stopped playing Mario Sunshine... it's fucking idiotic that they only have an inverted camera and I refuse to be forced to learn it just because they want me to play it the way they think is best. I fucking hate inverted camera's with a passion.

I don't know why every single game does not have complete and 100% customizeable controls... every single button and option should be made where I can put it on any button I want. it just doesn't make sense for them to choose 3 preset control schemes and force them down everyone's throats. I hate it when a developer makes me play the game how THEY think is best, how THEY think I should have to play it. So I don't... I just quit and move on to a game that doesn't. In today's day and age, and with me having every console and a PC, there's tons of other games I can spend my time on. I'm no longer forced to have to deal with that bullshit. some developers are finally catching on, realizing that we don't HAVE to anymore, that we have choices... and they know if they don't give us choices we can chose to not play their game, cause they know there are hundreds of other games out there.

This reminds me why I am so happy that Nintendo no longer has the control of the market they used to. back in the day they dictated everything to everyone. to developers, to gamers, to distributers. their close minded, dogmatic ways have now came back and bit them in their asses though.

 

[Callo Merlose]

QFT.

I've stopped playing every Rogue Squadron or other shooter games whenever I got to one of these. They're not as bad in FPSes, but still garbage nonetheless. I can't think of one good escort mission.

And Boss Gauntlets aren't too bad unless they're MegaMan7 like - kill All 8 and the cheapest version of Dr. Wily yet : / VJ at least lets you fill up in between IIRC.

Metal Gear Solid 2 handled it pretty well and, uh, hello GAF...

ICO.
"Ayyyyyy! Ohtwah. Ohtwah."

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Metal Gear Solid 2 handled it pretty well and, uh, hello GAF...

ICO.
"Ayyyyyy! Ohtwah. Ohtwah."

Hell, just say Resident muthaf'ning Evil 4!!

 

[psycho_snake]

DMC3 guys, DMC3.

Exactly what I was thinking of. I couldnt complete the game because I kept dying and I would have to start the leve from the beginning and some of them were rerally difficult. I know that was for the NA version, did they include checkpoints in the european version?

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Exactly what I was thinking of. I couldnt complete the game because I kept dying and I would have to start the leve from the beginning and some of them were rerally difficult. I know that was for the NA version, did they include checkpoints in the european version?

Fantastic game, though I get my ass handed to me on a platter and my fingers can't quite take the punishment anymore, not like what they are used to be as a kid. I hope it gets some kind of mid level save points in the next installment, Ninja Gaiden had actual saves points and was still quite the challenge without that kind of added frustrating challenge.

 

[psycho_snake]

Fantastic game, though I get my ass handed to me on a platter and my fingers can't quite take the punishment anymore, not like what they are used to be as a kid.

My fingers are fine, I can press the buttons quick enough, but some parts just really pissed me off and I gave up. I tried playing it the other day after having not played it for several months and on the level just after you escape from the gut of that monster and i completely sucked at the game because i forgot how to play it. Im going to have to strt the game from the beginning now, which really sucks because I've been past so many difficult levels. Im just too unfamiliar with the game now. Did you play the game on easy or normal homer?

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

My fingers are fine, I can press the buttons quick enough, but some parts just really pissed me off and I gave up. I tried playing it the other day after having not played it for several months and on the level just after you escape from the gut of that monster and i completely sucked at the game because i forgot how to play it. Im going to have to strt the game from the beginning now, which really sucks because I've been past so many difficult levels. Im just too unfamiliar with the game now. Did you play the game on easy or normal homer?

I played on normal, like many the game too pity on me by opening easy mode cause I kept getting my asskicked. I sat on it for a while, comeback later thinking I don't have enough of effort on my front to devote such brutal gaming yet, I'm trying to go through my backlog.

But man, boy oh boy, DMC3 is not nice on someone who took a lengthy break.

 

[Pachinko]

Yeah, Devil may cry 3. I'd like to finish your game capcom but when I have spend 15 minutes replaying a level only to die at the boss anyway it kind of demotivates me from playing- hardcore jerkwads will say it should make you want to get better but no, it just makes me wish there was a very easy mode in the game so I could actually finish it.

This is moreso true since my memory card up and died and my few hours of progress was lost to the winds of time forever. I'm sorry , the 5% of you that can play through this game and enjoy it go nuts , next time I wish capcom would make the thing easier without going to far- like with devil may cry 2 where it was basically hold X and win. Give me a nice medium- like ninja gaiden or devil may cry 1 with their respective normal modes.

I was the kid who got pissed off at nes games becuase I'd die and have to redo 30 seconds of a level , I was the teenager glad that games got considerably easier with PS1. There's only so much difficulty I can take.

 

[dark10x]

Ha ha, the under water boss. Oh yeah, that was a pretty bad choice right there (no nearby save points). There were two paths that you were required to complete in order to get to that boss as well...and if you did the easy one first, you'd be stuck doing the difficult section over again if you had to reload.

I died my first time, but kicked his ass the second. I simply wasn't prepared for a boss at that point and was suprised that they threw one my way.

 

[The Gaming Gamer]

I like that boss fight in Prime 2, because of the consequences you really had to master that fight, which is why when I got to this boss on my hard play through it was a breeze. You also had to play your best, you couldn't just keep reloading your game hoping for a "good run", you couldn't leave it up for chance. When I did finally beat the boss, I felt like I accomplished something.

The problem with games that allow you to save anywhere is that you don't even have to try, you can just play through the game effortlessly saving everywhere relying on chance rather than skill, and overcoming these shortcomings by constantly loading. I know someone that plays X-Com: UFO Defense and saves after every turn and justs reloads if something bad happens and corrects it, it is a strategy game but this is just trial-and-error gameplay, you should be planning for these situations ahead of time "just in case". He later quit because he thought the game was repetitive and too easy... What is convenient isn't always the best experience.

I like the challenge in the Prime games, they required skill and strategy, and also consistencey. The problem with Echoes was obviously the darkworld along with meaningless backtracking and weapon/ammo system, the challenge was an improvement over the original.

 

[psycho_snake]

I played on normal, like many the game too pity on me by opening easy mode cause I kept getting my asskicked. I sat on it for a while, comeback later thinking I don't have enough of effort on my front to devote such brutal gaming yet, I'm trying to go through my backlog.

But man, boy oh boy, DMC3 is not nice on someone who took a lengthy break.

So true. i have to start the game again because I just cant do anything. I get killed staright away, even on the simplest enemies. I really want to complete the game though because its quality, so I have to start it again. Ive got a 2 week holiday so I have the time to play it.

 

[etiolate]

Viewtiful Joe is a beautiful offender of this. I like it, because each time I'd get farther and do better, so it felt rewarding. Up until the time where you have to fight all the bosses back to back. Oy

 

[Rocket Punch]

In my experience, if you're having problems with a boss in MP and MP2 is because somewhere along the way you have missed some basic skill necesary to move on. You might need to practice straffing a bit more. I only died a few times with the boost guardian, now that was a fucker.

 

[cvxfreak]

Kain's Lunar Trial in FFIV Advance suffers from this problem.

 

[Timen]

Spoiler

boost. guardian

 

[Dice]

Everyone names him as the most difficult, but it wasn't that hard for me. My uncle asked me to beat it for him (my first time playing the game) and I managed to do so on my 7th try with 3 energy tanks. Now playing through on my game I had 5 energy tanks by time I fought him and it was cake. When I first beat it for my uncle I just observed everything I did and everything it did and developed effective tactics. I wrote down two pages of strategic notes for my uncle, perhaps I should get them back from him and write out a little specific boss FAQ for it.

 

[Vitten]

huh.. somebody dying during Alpha Blog ? That's quite a feat by itself.
That guy's so easy... just charge a super missile and let it it rip when he charges at you with his mouth open. You can even let yourself be hit.. only takes a few hits and he's down.

 

[elostyle]

Retry in Ouendan. JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

FUCKING ESCORT MISSIONS! FUCK!

Captain Keyes is a worthless jerk.

 

[Prospero]

I didn't have much trouble with MP2's boost guardian boss--I stopped playing it because of the Spider Ball boss, though.