DrForester
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Gilda made Fluttershy cry for no reason. She deserves no sympathy.
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- Thread starter Myke Greywolf
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Gilda made Fluttershy cry for no reason. She deserves no sympathy.
Slamtastic
Member
[Discussion]
Gilda and Trixie are so cool BECAUSE they're unsympathetic.
They're a testament to the non vapid/childish/"girly" nature of this MLP gen that there can be bitch characters who are never redeemed in any way.
I like them specifically for being "villains" (in the context of the slice-of-life episodes, as opposed to NMM and discord in the adventure episodes).
[Art Roundup]
You know who's a cool guy?
JJ!
Gilda and Trixie are so cool BECAUSE they're unsympathetic.
They're a testament to the non vapid/childish/"girly" nature of this MLP gen that there can be bitch characters who are never redeemed in any way.
I like them specifically for being "villains" (in the context of the slice-of-life episodes, as opposed to NMM and discord in the adventure episodes).
[Art Roundup]
You know who's a cool guy?
JJ!
Rickenslacker
Banned
It's hard for me to feel sympathetic towards Gilda because, like you said, she's written to be a bitch. She's openly hostile to Pinkie and anyone else in Ponyville the moment Dash is out of the picture. She gets pranked a lot in the end, but it was dumb luck like Dash mentions and her own stupidity really. She comes in there suspicious of Pinkie then repeatedly pushes people out of the way to get set up for something else.
Yeah, I think that was the real low point for Season 1. After that there's a pretty long streak of good-great episodes. You're in for a treat.
Rickenslacker
Banned
A lot of people don't like Look Before You Sleep but man, AJ and Rarity bickering in bed together is too good haha.
LBYS/Rainboom/Dog and Pony Show were the three episodes that made me hate Rarity in S1. S2 has done an incredible job of changing my opinion of her, from worst of the mane 6 to serious contender for best pony.
Green Mamba
Member
That's kind of funny, because Sonic Rainboom and A Dog & Pony Show helped make Rarity my favorite of the six.
Shadow Hog
Member
"Look Before You Sleep" is a good enough episode, but I seriously keep forgetting it happened. Like, I know S1E7 is "Dragonshy", I know S1E9 is "Bridle Gossip", and I know S1E10 is "The Trouble With Tribbles""Swarm of the Century", but my mind always glosses over S1E8.
Green Mamba
Member
Look Before You Sleep is a pretty bad episode all things considered.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wow, people sure like to overanalyze a lot of episodes.
In these shows characters, especially the ones that aren't part of the mane cast or revolve around them, tend to be single layered. Trixie is introduced as a self-abosrbed arrogant bitch. That's all there is to it - there are no hints of other things. Most are essentially just made up or are delusions.
In these shows characters, especially the ones that aren't part of the mane cast or revolve around them, tend to be single layered. Trixie is introduced as a self-abosrbed arrogant bitch. That's all there is to it - there are no hints of other things. Most are essentially just made up or are delusions.
Slamtastic
Member
So you don't believe the show is of high enough quality to give serious analysis?
Also: Where can I get some of you guys' crazy pills? Look Before You Sleep is a really good episode!
Yeah, her behavior isn't justifiable in the end, I just don't like how it was written in as one coherent block of "you aren't supposed to sympathize with this character", especially when Pinkie and Dash are both being fairly obnoxious themselves. It was very heavyhanded, and the episode could've gone a completely different route until that point.
Look Before You Sleep is "meh" incarnate.
Boast Busters is weird. Trixie is meant to play the role of the cocky jerk in this type of episode, but that's derailed by the Mane Six drinking their Haterade and heckling her when her show barely even begun. She fires back, but if given the benefit of the doubt it seems to just be in response of the others firing first. Though in the end, everyone comes out looking bad in that episode. For that reason, it's always sat pretty low on my list.
Boast Busters is weird. Trixie is meant to play the role of the cocky jerk in this type of episode, but that's derailed by the Mane Six drinking their Haterade and heckling her when her show barely even begun. She fires back, but if given the benefit of the doubt it seems to just be in response of the others firing first. Though in the end, everyone comes out looking bad in that episode. For that reason, it's always sat pretty low on my list.
Rickenslacker
Banned
That's part of the fun! I mean, sure, you can just look at the episode the way the writers intended, but the interpretation of the execution is just harmless head canon stuff that people like to indulge in. Makes for good discussion.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
There's a difference between analysis and making things up for the sake of fitting in shitty fanon.
Episode analysis is fun when done in the proper scope like being supported by other things found in the show, not the one that involves making stuff up.
Everything that happened at that point can be blamed on 'Snips and Snails are morons for believing a fictional tale'. They brought a monster to Trixie and then, instead of continuing to run they just stand there. At least Trixie tried to do something instead of running and leaving the two butts to get eaten by a star bear.
Well we don't really see her selling tickets or anything. Not exactly exciting story material.
... She's on a stage, with fireworks, and neon lights, putting on a show. I don't do all of that when i tell dudes that "I can make a website."
A varied audience is fine too. Some may not like it, some will be enthralled to the point of obsession, and some will get mad with no real reason over it. Trixie took it all like a champ, even the ponies that decided to come up on her own stage and try to show her up.
Really she didn't do anything inherently bad at all in the episode aside from tell a story. Does she have to sign a disclaimer that it was fictional before putting on a show or something?
wait.... did i miss the episode 7 post? :O
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Ahh Trixie apologists are hilariously awesome yet sad.
Man you'd think my contempt would come from fanon's attempt to force pony genetics on their shit (like that Dinky relatives) or even Derpy stupidity, but it still seems Trixie headcanon is the one that makes me rage.
Man you'd think my contempt would come from fanon's attempt to force pony genetics on their shit (like that Dinky relatives) or even Derpy stupidity, but it still seems Trixie headcanon is the one that makes me rage.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The problem is that they're exploring the episode with so much unneeded analysis, forcing on views that are pretty much nonexistent. And don't get me started on "Trixie has a sick mom" ponyshit.
and how have you determined the needed amount of analysis?
While the later is fanon and fanfic fodder (yay alliteration!) the former is just good old fashioned overanalysis. And that's part of the fun!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Context.
Character A is like this because we see a scene where A is like this/another episode where A is this.
That's valid.
Overanalysis shit is stuff like bringing wrestling rules and psychology in a fucking pony show.
It's based on my beef on people pushing obviously, transparently evil/egoistic/jerkass characters in positive light for the sake of "I can't like a character without them in a positive light".
WIP for my painting class. The directive was to paint a dessert in a delicious style...as far as I'm concerned that means only one thing. Sorry for the crappo image quality.
I seriously can't wait to see this once it's finished!
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
yet. Dragonshy was just a good early episode, the big guns are still coming.
Shadow Hog
Member
Just a friendly reminder:
If he prefers to go into the episodes not expecting much, I'll be happy to oblige that. It'd be discourteous to do otherwise.
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
eh shit is going off memory. excuse me princess.
Fixed lol
Given her choice of claim, kinda, yeah. She picked something vaguely plausible and important instead of something completely outlandish or ridiculous that would've been clearly fictional. Of her four detractors, Spike was the only outright skeptical one. The other three weren't bothered by the claim itself, just how insufferably self-aggrandizing she was, and then she went on to demonstrate to each of them that she really did have a fair amount of talent.
Why would they believe it was fiction?
No, it's not. But we can logically rule out tickets on account of how she set up in town square, and after the show she didn't seem to do anything but exploit Snips and Snails for smoothies until locking up for the night. If she's got anything coming in, we certainly don't see the opportunity.
If the entire point of the show were to talk about how awesome you were at making websites and you demonstrate that you can make websites, well, it's not unreasonable to expect that people would come away from that thinking that you could make pretty awesome websites, no matter how the presentation was dressed up.
Her claim was to have defeated 'a rather large star bear'. An Ursa Major. Snips and Snails quickly go and find a rather large star bear and bring it to town. Twilight who didn't even know about them reads up. And saves the day somehow because it actually turned out to be a baby star bear. Something even Trixie didn't know.
We then cut to a picture of the actual star bear Trixie was claiming to have defeated. One that was many times huge. Twilight herself was seen struggling with the baby.
That said, all trixie did was tell a story of defeating a rather large bear. That Twilight didn't know much about them until she read up suggests that they're not exactly well-known.
Ergo, she was telling a story with sparkles and fireworks to wow the crowd, that's all. She never demonstrated actually defeating a bear bear hoofed. I agree she was quite self-absorbed about it all but that's showbusiness okay.
And then Twilight and Trixie got married
We then cut to a picture of the actual star bear Trixie was claiming to have defeated. One that was many times huge. Twilight herself was seen struggling with the baby.
That said, all trixie did was tell a story of defeating a rather large bear. That Twilight didn't know much about them until she read up suggests that they're not exactly well-known.
Ergo, she was telling a story with sparkles and fireworks to wow the crowd, that's all. She never demonstrated actually defeating a bear bear hoofed. I agree she was quite self-absorbed about it all but that's showbusiness okay.
And then Twilight and Trixie got married
Owlowiscious
Member
everyone should hate on chuck norris because his beard didn't punch out hitler and end wwii
wildthing2022000
Member
Taking Twlight's ignorance on the subject, you can make the same claim for Trixie as the bear she shows is proportionally only the size of an Ursa Minor and looks like an Ursa Minor when compared to the size and look of an Ursa Major. The only difference here is that she knew of the Ursa Major but didn't know what one actually looks like as stated by Trixie herself later in the episode.
Trixie's claims were also too grandiose for somepony who did nothing more than parlor tricks. I mean she claims to have defeated a large animal and the best trick she does is turning a pony's hair into a green grass/moss-like substance. Did she really have to make such a large claim when it's not really necessary to?
At least Flim and Flam backed-up their talk by doing what they claimed they could do with the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy 6000 even though their fear of losing did them in at the end.
Working on it.
Myke Greywolf
Ambassador of Goodwill
huh, it's one of my favorites *shrug*
on the other hand, I might be the only one here who isn't a fan of Sonic Rainboom
Yeah, I caught that in a rewatch. Twilight did save Trixie's life.
I have to disagree on why she stayed. She ran when her mobile home was wrecked, and Snips and Snails followed. She seems to be faster than the Ursa, so she got some distance and then turned around to observe. Her mannerisms at this point are different. I think she dropped the act. She gave fighting a try because Snips and Snails were prodding her to do it, but when they started telling other ponies to relax because Trixie was going to win, she set the record straight.
Pony economics are unclear at best. Maybe the government pays artists.
I don't believe the real-world-importance thing is a concern. Tons of performers have grandiose claims that could have real-world applications, and it's never an issue. The ones who believed Trixie's fiction and started cheerleading were children, and the ones who actively disbelieved were taking shots at it because they wanted to find fault with Trixie. The warzone analogy is way out there, and Trixie never cut any red wire (metaphorically speaking).
I can't do Gilda. She went too far when she scared the elderly and stole apples and made Fluttershy cry. I'm willing to subscribe to the theory that she's gay, which was why she wanted to monopolize Rainbow and was adversarial towards Pinkie. And she took the stress of battling Pinkie out on others... but I just can't do it. It's too thin. Gilda's just bad.
Real world examples and psychology are valid because the writers come from our real world.
I read a few months ago about how the audience is naturally inclined to believe every word or thought that comes from the protagonist. Sometimes even if those things run contrary to your own beliefs. You might believe it while you're reading, and you're immersed in the fictional world, and you might stop believing when you put the book down (unless it actually changed your view on things). The things the protagonists believe are automatically supposed to be true for the fictional world. Educated writers know this, and can use it to their advantage. They can make a protagonist believe wrongly, and leave trails of evidence showing that it's wrong, and when the protagonist eventually comes around (if done right), the audience says "wow, what a twist, how did I not see that coming". Writers can use this kind of knowledge in all sorts of ways.
When I first saw Boast Busters, I thought Trixie was a jerk. Then someone asked me why I thought that, and asked what Trixie did wrong. So I gave it some thought.
I can't objectively see anything that Trixie really did wrong, aside from getting into a fight with three protagonists. I had automatically sided against Trixie because Rarity, Applejack, Rainbow Dash, and Spike were against her. But why were they against her, and did they do anything wrong?
Twilight and Spike are talking at the start of the episode about how most common Unicorns don't have much magic. That means Rarity. Then Trixie shows up and her schtick is about how she has lots of Unicorn magic. And for some reason, Rarity is the first pony to start the hate parade. Rarity was jealous. I believe that was deliberate on the part of the writer. Did you notice how Spike was in the middle of insulting Rarity's magical ability when he blurted "mustache" and ran away from her? After disrupting Trixie's show and getting called on it, did you see that disdainful snort from Rarity? Rarity didn't give a shit. Look at this comment from her again: "Just because one has the ability to perform lots of magic does not make one better than the rest of us." Trixie didn't say anything about herself being a better pony than Rarity. She only said one line about putting on an amazing magical display. Rarity's the one who inferred that she was inadequate.
Applejack joined Rarity in her hate parade, and this isn't the only time she's acted kind of jealous around wings and horns. Rainbow Dash made a joke, and Applejack glared at her until she sided with the haters.
Spike was going crazy because he wanted Twilight to brag. He didn't just want Twilight to shut Trixie up, he actually wanted Twilight to get the recognition he felt she deserved. In an episode that seems to say it's wrong to brag.
So why the heck would I side with these protagonists? Twilight is the main protagonist, she actually wanted to watch Trixie's show, and the hateful comments of those three ponies were making her uncomfortable, because the things they said about Trixie could be applied to her just as easily. And Spike was drawing an unwanted amount of attention towards her, against her protests. Twilight actually used magic to shut his mouth, but he still wouldn't listen.
Rarity/Applejack/Rainbow Dash never apologized for acting like jerks towards Trixie and hurting Twilight's feelings, they just blamed Twilight for coming to the wrong (right) conclusion. "Oh no, I mean, you're not Trixie. And look, you're not standing on a stage. Serious differences." And Spike got what he wanted because Twilight made a major scene.
Twilight to Celestia: I was so afraid of being thought of as a show off, that I was hiding a part of who I am. My friends helped me realize that it's okay to be proud of my talents, and there are times when it's appropriate to show them off.
Yeah, Trixie sure needs to learn her lesson.
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