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[Zaptruder]

Or just post random 'profound' thoughts you might have.

On teleportation and the soul...

These are both pretty popular subjects for bored people to think about. While the link between them aren't immediately obvious... if you stop to think about it, you should never use a teleporter; if ever they're invented.

Personally, I believe the soul to just be the mind of the person; you can neither disentangle the mind from the body... the worse you can do is remove the effect of the mind on the body; through quadraplegia or what not. If you alter the body (the brain) then you alter the mind... of the person.

Given that... what I believe the soul to be is the 'unique instantiation of each person'

Say you could duplicate me down to the quark... and do so without destroying me; then you'd have an exact copy of me. for all intents and purposes identical, except he'd be him and I'd still be myself. I wouldn't be able to feel and control my copy anymore than he can me, tho we may share the same history upto a point.

Many theories/fanciful speculative ideas of teleportation rely upon reading a persons molecular/atomic data and then reassembling them at another point... of course to read the data they disassemble you first. At that point you cease to exist, replaced by a doppleganger of yourself...

Anyone else have any incoherent ramblings they'd like to share?

 

[DJ Demon J]

That reminds me of the paradox introduced in The 6th Day. Although the clones of that CEO dude all thought they were him, the real "him" died long ago (unless I missed something in the plot about transferring consciousness via brainwaves to the clone).

 

[demon]

Or just post random 'profound' thoughts you might have.

On teleportation and the soul...

These are both pretty popular subjects for bored people to think about. While the link between them aren't immediately obvious... if you stop to think about it, you should never use a teleporter; if ever they're invented.

Personally, I believe the soul to just be the mind of the person; you can neither disentangle the mind from the body... the worse you can do is remove the effect of the mind on the body; through quadraplegia or what not. If you alter the body (the brain) then you alter the mind... of the person.

Given that... what I believe the soul to be is the 'unique instantiation of each person'

Say you could duplicate me down to the quark... and do so without destroying me; then you'd have an exact copy of me. for all intents and purposes identical, except he'd be him and I'd still be myself. I wouldn't be able to feel and control my copy anymore than he can me, tho we may share the same history upto a point.

Many theories/fanciful speculative ideas of teleportation rely upon reading a persons molecular/atomic data and then reassembling them at another point... of course to read the data they disassemble you first. At that point you cease to exist, replaced by a doppleganger of yourself...

Anyone else have any incoherent ramblings they'd like to share?

I've actually thought about this a lot. Star Trek made me think about it, and I began contemplating it again when I was reading Timeline last winter.

I can't really explain my thoughts on the matter, because of the complicated paradoxes involved. But I myself would never, ever step foot in a teleporter if one were invented. The best way I can explain it, I suppose, is that what comes out on the other side is an exact copy of you, right down to every atom in your body and brainwave in your head, but it's not the same *consciousness*. Your original consciousness would cease to exist, and be replaced by another one....or something. And whatever it is that you lose in the process--that consciousness--is the closest to what I consider the "soul", if there is one.

 

[commish]

That reminds me of the paradox introduced in The 6th Day. Although the clones of that CEO dude all thought they were him, the real "him" died long ago (unless I missed something in the plot about transferring consciousness via brainwaves to the clone).

How is this a paradox?

 

[3phemeral]

My friends and I always argue that on Star Trek, you have the ability to travel faster than light, so how would you be able to navigate properly? There's probably a host of hi-tech equipment they use for this purpose, but my main question involves more of the visual representation of faster than light travel.

For example:

The way the universe expands or contracts is determined by phase shifts indicated by the frequency of light stars emit based on their relative distant and direction of travel from Earth. Red shifts refer to an expansion of the universe (lower frequency of light traveling away from the observation site), while Blue shifts refer to a high frequency of light advancing toward the viewer (under the assumption that both sources of light radiate similarily).

Knowing this, when a ship travels though space, faster than the speed of light, everything known in the visible spectrum would no longer be visible. Light approaching the craft, through the observation deck, and into the eyes of the crew would be traveling into the eye so frequently that it wouldn't be visible anymore.

So what would they see?

We've thought about it and considered the possibility that if:

A) Space Craft is traveling Fast than the Speed of Light
B) Light traveling towards the craft at a higher frequency
C) Light frequency patterns suprass visible light spectrum

Then the following would have to be true:

D) That Lower frequency light would move into the visible spectrum (Infrared, Microwave, then Radio as the lowest).

So everything you'd see would be a representation in either Infrared, Microwave, or Radio; however that may look.

Now, I haven't thought about this in too much detail because it's been an on and off idea I've had since High School that i never really explored completely, so I could be wrong in a lot of my assumptions. Anyone have any ideas they'd like to contribute? ^_^

 

[teiresias]

"The Physics of Star Trek"

I have that book and it's a pretty interesting read if I remember correctly - I read it like five years ago or something.

It discusses all kinds of things including implications of the soul and the transporter. Basically, if a transporter is invented and the first, brave soul that uses it materializes on the other side perfectly fine and himself does that prove the nonexistance of a soul in the biblical sense? After all, you're essentially killing someone when you dematerialize them and store there information in the patter buffer.

 

[LakeEarth]

Knowing this, when a ship travels though space, faster than the speed of light, everything known in the visible spectrum would no longer be visible. Light approaching the craft, through the observation deck, and into the eyes of the crew would be traveling into the eye so frequently that it wouldn't be visible anymore.

So what would they see?

We've thought about it and considered the possibility that if:

A) Space Craft is traveling Fast than the Speed of Light
B) Light traveling towards the craft at a higher frequency
C) Light frequency patterns suprass visible light spectrum

Then the following would have to be true:

D) That Lower frequency light would move into the visible spectrum (Infrared, Microwave, then Radio as the lowest).

So everything you'd see would be a representation in either Infrared, Microwave, or Radio; however that may look.

Now, I haven't thought about this in too much detail because it's been an on and off idea I've had since High School that i never really explored completely, so I could be wrong in a lot of my assumptions. Anyone have any ideas they'd like to contribute? ^_^

Good ideas, but remember light is both a wave and a particle. You're ideas only work if it was just a wave. But since I hate physics, I won't stop to think about it.

 

[3phemeral]

True -- I thought about that for a bit, but never delved into the particle aspect of light in respects to its relationship with this idea. Maybe jinx can answer? I know he has a good grasp of physics, as do a few other posters on this (I can't remember their names for the life of me =P ).

 

[Escape Goat]

Who would really win in a fight between Batman and Superman? I mean, no one can figure ito ut.

 

[LakeEarth]

Who would really win in a fight between Batman and Superman? I mean, no one can figure ito ut.

TIME TO PREPARE!!!

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

True -- I thought about that for a bit, but never delved into the particle aspect of light in respects to its relationship with this idea. Maybe jinx can answer? I know he has a good grasp of physics, as do a few other posters on this (I can't remember their names for the life of me =P ).

Your idea's sound realtively sound to me, except for the simple fact (atleast fact as all information we have now would lead us to beleive) that you can never, in any way shape or form, travel at the speed of light.

At first glance(without really going over any equations or anything), there seems to be alot that would change things far more than simply the colors (time running in reverse would be one thing).

I think I'll let jinx look a bit harder into it, but that's something I've never thought about.

 

[3phemeral]

Your idea's sound realtively sound to me, except for the simple fact (atleast fact as all information we have now would lead us to beleive) that you can never, in any way shape or form, travel at the speed of light.

At first glance(without really going over any equations or anything), there seems to be alot that would change things far more than simply the colors (time running in reverse would be one thing).

I think I'll let jinx look a bit harder into it, but that's something I've never thought about.

Ah, that's well understood. I'm not dismissing the theory of relativity by any means -- just in the context of Star Trek and the relationship of traveling via warp and it's relationship to visible light.

You bring up an interesting point, though, about the time travel aspect. It never crossed my mind, actually. I guess that leaves me with something more to think about