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[Chiaroscuro]

so are we not actually seeing the planet just light? or do we actually have images of these planets.

one more question, say an intelligent species thats 80 million light years away is looking at earth and observing the life on earth. That would mean they're observing dinosaurs correct? They wouldn't have any knowledge of humans or how earth is now right?

Our eyes detect light. When you see an object, any object, you just see the light from it (that is why you do not see in the dark). Some objects like stars are light sources, others, like planets, just reflect the light.

Saying that you are seeing an object and saying that you seeing its light us the same thing.

Of course that there are other types of emissions outside our visual range that we can detected too (like infrared) but we cannot "see" with our eyes. And those emissions are limited by the speed of light too.

And yes for your question about dinosaurs.

 

[All Possible Ways]

So, I got curious and decided to calculate how much time it would pass for constant acceleration for half the trip, then constant deceleration for the second half.

At 1g, 7.3 years would pass on the ship and 41.2 from the outside (Earth, say, ignoring small gravitational effects). If you could tolerate 2gs, then it would be only 4.3 years on the ship and 40.9 on Earth!

Time on ship vs acceleration:

Time on Earth vs acceleration:

 

[Omega Kirby]

This has always been a conundrum when people think of the conventional method of "establishing contact". If we launch the James Webb telescope and discover a sustainable atmosphere on a distant planet and later discover that there is organic/basic life, by the time any type of craft could get there, there may have existed entire civilizations that wiped each other out and rendered the planet unlivable.

The only wayto establish contact is to go there in person. *Sigh*,

Guess we'll have to do with our oceans.

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

I think this is potentially the most important discovery since splitting the atom. Imagine...habitable world that mankind could travel and colonize during a human lifespan.

This could be the saving grace and expansion of our species.

We just have to think of a name for our new world.

I think, Archeron or LV426 are good options..,

All jokes aside, we should build a massive Orion nuclear pulsed starship. (which we could) with todays techology. And reach 20% lightspeed RIGHT NOW in 2017.

 

[Peterpan]

So we can't actually live on these planets from the sounds of the discussions here?

 

[WinterIsComing]

It wont reach them or they haven't developed the tech to interpret it... because if it would or if they'd had... we are getting nothing from them (or aren't able to find it).

Their answer will only get here in another 40 years, right?

 

[Morts]

Theoretically if we sent a probe in that direction tomorrow, ten years from now would it be able to send back measurably better data than we can get from here?

 

[Crispy75]

So we can't actually live on these planets from the sounds of the discussions here?

We don't know enough about them yet to say for sure.

 

[Crispy75]

Theoretically if we sent a probe in that direction tomorrow, ten years from now would it be able to send back measurably better data than we can get from here?

Not with current engine technology. We have no way of making anything travel fast enough for it to make a difference.

 

[mckmas8808]

No 'current' images, due to the nature of only being able to see 39 years into the past at best. And technically you're always "just" seeing light and not objects, even when you look at an apple on your desk.

To your second point, yes, 80 million light years away, other species (if they somehow possessed incredibly powerful telescopes) would only be able to see prehistoric images of our planet.

This has always been a conundrum when people think of the conventional method of "establishing contact". If we launch the James Webb telescope and discover a sustainable atmosphere on a distant planet and later discover that there is organic/basic life, by the time any type of craft could get there, there may have existed entire civilizations that wiped each other out and rendered the planet unlivable.

Incredible to think about. But how are we always "only" seeing light like when looking at an apple?

 

[mckmas8808]

Not with current engine technology. We have no way of making anything travel fast enough for it to make a difference.

And we can't live with that level of radiation at the moment.

 

[N.Domixis]

I think this is potentially the most important discovery since splitting the atom. Imagine...habitable world that mankind could travel and colonize during a human lifespan.

This could be the saving grace and expansion of our species.

We just have to think of a name for our new world.

I think, Archeron or LV426 are good options..,



All jokes aside, we should build a massive Orion nuclear pulsed starship. (which we could) with todays techology. And reach 20% lightspeed RIGHT NOW in 2017.

Has to be Namek.

 

[All Possible Ways]

Incredible to think about. But how are we always "only" seeing light like when looking at an apple?

Well, the quickest way you may convince yourself is that if you turn off the lights, you can't see the apple anymore! In other words, all you may detect is the light from your light source that scatters off the apple and then reaches your eyes. Your brain then interprets the pattern of the scattered light to form an image of the apple.

In the case of our eyes, we may only see a narrow band of the spectrum, but the same principle applies for other frequencies as well. Looking at the apple in IR, for instance, you would find it is literally glowing at those frequencies, but you could diminish the emission by cooling the apple, until the image on your IR camera goes dark, etc.

 

[superdeluxe]

There's no way they can figure out if the planet is habitable just by it being the right size and in the Golden Zone.

The Earth is a miracle with millions of factors that went into its creation.

There's no way we can know until we get there.

Isn't the new 2018 telescope/satellite be able to tell us much more detail like composition of atmosphere etc?

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

Not with current engine technology. We have no way of making anything travel fast enough for it to make a difference.

Yea there is. We have the technology. Look up Project Orion, nuclear pulsed drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

 

[Crispy75]

Yea there is. We have the technology. Look up Project Orion, nuclear pulsed drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

Well yes, *ideas* abound

 

[RedSwirl]

Life on tidal locked planets (PDF):

So that's why there's a big-ass hurricane covering half the planet every time I find a tidally-locked atmospheric planet in Space Engine.

 

[FTF]

Also those stars are way more long-living than our Sun, so there is a lot of time for live to develop.

Let us just celebrate this remarkable discovery.

Cheers:

Are you waiting for alien contact to break out the 10s?

 

[Trouble]

So, I got curious and decided to calculate how much time it would pass for constant acceleration for half the trip, then constant deceleration for the second half.

At 1g, 7.3 years would pass on the ship and 41.2 from the outside (Earth, say, ignoring small gravitational effects). If you could tolerate 2gs, then it would be only 4.3 years on the ship and 40.9 on Earth!

Time on ship vs acceleration:

Time on Earth vs acceleration:

This shit is super cool and gets me super excited about the future. It doesn't hurt that I've been reading the Revelation Space series which gives a glimpse of the mechanics of what interstellar travel will probably actually look like.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

So Belgians discovered this? I was wondering why one of them was called 'Trappist', haha.

 

[jerry113]

ok this is blowing my mind

miniature star system?

 

[Droopaloop]

Satellite clocks actually have to factor in both time speeding up (from general relativity -- gravity effects, aka that one planet in Interstellar) and slowing down (from special relativity -- speed effects, aka what happens to our hypothetical explorers to these new planets). IIRC general relativity "wins" by a factor of 5 or 6 in the satellite case, but GPS wouldn't work without taking both into account.


I don't have a great layman explanation for relativity. The one that comes to mind is: the universe exists in 4D spacetime, and we are always moving through it at a constant "velocity" -- usually just in the "time" dimension. But the universe has a hard speed limit (c, the speed of light), and if you get too close to that speed limit moving through space, your "velocity" through time must slow in proportion.

BUT, this time dilation effect is local -- you (going super fast) perceive time as going slower, but from the outside it would be as if you're living in proportionally slow motion.

Not perfect, but maybe slightly helpful?

Apologies for the late reply. Lol I believe your comment said what I was trying to say regarding satellites, but it was phased more eloquently than I could have phrased it. In a sense, gravitational effects have a much larger effect on time dilation for satellites than time dilation due to speed just because in the grand scheme of things everything else is minuscule in comparison relative to the speed of light.

As to your second comment, now that you say that I remember reading about studies regarding atomic clocks physically in SR-71s reading behind those one the ground. Brain fart on my end.

Edit: Just looked into it; I was way off. Not SR-71s. It was a conventional turbo prop. Either way, same concept. They should have done it in SR-71s though.

? I didn't say there was anything wrong with MASH. Just that that was an example of a TV show they'd be watching.

I know. It was a poor joke.

 

[keuja]

Honestly I'd love to see some simulations of gravitational effects on the surface of these planets. For example there could be huge seismic effects.

Edit: doing some quick math: the moon's mass is roughly 1% that of the earth and it's roughly four times closer to us than these planets are to each other when they're at their closest. Assuming the planets are earth like that means whenever one transits by the other each would experience a pull that is about 100/4^2 = ~6 times the force between the earth and the moon. And whenever more than one planet transits that force could be even greater (or weaker) depending on the transit.

What's more these extreme changes would occur on an almost daily (as in 24 earth hours) basis.

And I'm pretty sure whatever life forms exist on the planet would find a way to exploit those cyclical gravitational pulls like turtles use the ocean high tides to lay eggs. Without a day/night cycle, the ecosystem on one side of the planet would be radically different to the other side too! And at the border I imagine it would be like living in a perpetual dawn.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

And I'm pretty sure whatever life forms exist on the planet would find a way to exploit those cyclical gravitational pulls like turtles use the ocean high tides to lay eggs. Without a day/night cycle, the ecosystem on one side of the planet would be radically different to the other side too! And at the border I imagine it would be like living in a perpetual dawn.

It would be fascinating to learn how life could thrive in such an environment. One thing to take into account is that although the gravitational effects are cyclical, the cycle is a very complex one, much more so than the earth-moon tidal cycle. It could take as long as 3-4 earth months for an entire cycle to complete.

Edit: actually much longer than that! On the order of several earth years!

 

[Kinan]

Here is some gravity simulations, I think there is a potential for few resonances:

http://orbitsimulator.com/gravitySimulatorCloud/simulations/1487806670373_trappist1.html

EDIT: Hint: Choose the Trappist 1d as your reference (top left corner) and watch the crazy trajectory of 1e relative to it.

 

[Crispy75]

No danger of the inhabitants coming up with a planet-centric cosmology is there?

 

[superdeluxe]

What's the difference between Trappist and other goldilock planets? isn't Proxima Centuari only 4 light years away?

 

[Crispy75]

What's the difference between Trappist and other goldilock planets? isn't Proxima Centuari only 4 light years away?

The exciting bit is how many of them there are. We can do spectroscopy etc. on all 7 at once with one observing period..

 

[purdobol]

Kinda shameful that NASA takes the credit for this discovery. It was international effort afterall...

 

[robertsan21]

Kinda shameful that NASA takes the credit for this discovery. It was international effort afterall...

Im not following this to closely, but have NASA not given any type of credit to these outside parties?

 

[Redders]

Here is some gravity simulations, I think there is a potential for few resonances:

http://orbitsimulator.com/gravitySimulatorCloud/simulations/1487806670373_trappist1.html

EDIT: Hint: Choose the Trappist 1d as your reference (top left corner) and watch the crazy trajectory of 1e relative to it.

Looks trippy as hell if you put the time step up above 4000 or so. Currently at the year 2500 and it looks like the planets have been thrown out of orbit?

 

[purdobol]

Im not following this to closely, but have NASA not given any type of credit to these outside parties?

I've only read couple articles online about this subject and not one so far mentions anything about ESA or CSA. It's weird.
Watching conference right now, so we'll see. Heh...

EDIT: Yep very vague mentions about Trappist telescope, observatory in chile and the "initial" discovery.

 

[eot]

This shit is super cool and gets me super excited about the future. It doesn't hurt that I've been reading the Revelation Space series which gives a glimpse of the mechanics of what interstellar travel will probably actually look like.

Don't get too excited, it's basically impossible to maintain 1g acceleration even with a 100% efficient fuel source (which isn't possible anyway), because you need so much fuel that 99%+ of your ship's mass will be fuel, which in turn makes it so you need more fuel to accelerate all that fuel and so on.

Our eyes detect light. When you see an object, any object, you just see the light from it (that is why you do not see in the dark). Some objects like stars are light sources, others, like planets, just reflect the light.

Saying that you are seeing an object and saying that you seeing its light us the same thing.

Of course that there are other types of emissions outside our visual range that we can detected too (like infrared) but we cannot "see" with our eyes. And those emissions are limited by the speed of light too.

And yes for your question about dinosaurs.

They're actually only seeing the dimming of the star due to the planets passing it.

 

[lastplayed]

If you play Elite Dangerous you'll be able to visit the system soon.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...pact-on-Elite-Dangerous?p=5197750#post5197750

The recent announcement of the discovery of the Trappist 1 system is exciting. The star, an M8 dwarf red star is right at the bottom end of the M class stars, so faint it is only just visible in the most powerful telescopes, and doesn’t feature in most star catalogues for this reason. Luckily, though, the system is almost exactly ‘edge on’ from our viewpoint – which means it is possible to ‘see’ the planets as they occlude the tiny star, and an incredible seven terrestrial planets have been spotted around the star by this technique, three of them in the ‘habitable zone’.

Even with Hubble, the fainter M class red stars are only just visible at 40 light years, which is why Trappist 1 is not in most of the star catalogues. Beyond this distance we can see ever fewer M class stars – particularly the fainter ones like this M8 – and it is where our procedural generation begins to kick in – supplementing the brighter, more visible stars.

The way Stellar Forge works is to use ‘available mass’ from which to generate systems – and because of this unaccounted mass, Stellar Forge has created a system with a Brown Dwarf in very nearly the same place – 39 light years away – this is only a little smaller than an M8 – and it even has seven terrestrial worlds around it – Core Sys Sector XU-P A5-0.

Interestingly the system that came out of Stellar Forge has a couple of moons, and a couple of co-orbiting binary pairs – these things would not (yet) be detected in the occlusion technique, as this is simply detecting the darkening of the stellar disc, but who knows, this might be possible.

Because of this we have tweaked Stellar Forge with the data from the recent discoveries so that the planets are now the same – and we have renamed it Trappist 1 – but the great thing is it is only a small tweak! We may still add a few moons back in, and this should go live in beta 2, and will of course be in 2.3 when it goes live to everyone.

David Braben

 

[Chiaroscuro]

They're actually only seeing the dimming of the star due to the planets passing it.

Yes, I know it, but I was trying to explain that all we can "see" is just light and I did not want to overcomplicated things even more. The right thing to say was we are seeing less light from the star while planets pass in front of it.