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[Phoenix]

for FUCKS sake... the Shuttles are expensive flying coffins and should never go up again.

:lol oh come on now.

the X-33 / Venture Star btw would've been a lot cheaper and more feasable than that X-30 / National Aerospace Plane (aka 'the Orient express') proposed by Reagan

It all ways starts out that way when its on the drawing board

 

[xexex]

Why does it look like somebody stole the Shuttle Building Book for Dummies from NASA?

because that's what the Soviets did best, copy western designs. (kidding)


look at the Soviet / Russian Tu-160 'Blackjack' bomber, it looks strikingly similar to the U.S. B-1B Lancer bomber.

there are a hundred other examples. it seems Soviet engineers often reached the same design conclusions that western designers did. it happens alot in aerospace.

 

[Boogie]

because that's what the Soviets did best, copy western designs. (kidding)


look at the Soviet / Russian Tu-160 'Blackjack' bomber, it looks strikingly similar to the U.S. B-1B Lancer bomber.

there are a hundred other examples. it seems Soviet engineers often reached the same design conclusions that western designers did. it happens alot in aerospace.

Yes. Coincidences, I'm sure.

 

[Phoenix]

The real issue is what the ship can do.

Low Earth Orbit is pretty boring. NASA needs a vehicle that can be multipurpose and fly in Earth Orbit or go to the moon.

That's what the CEV is for.

True, but to go back to the moon or to mars you really need a reason to go - especially since these new missions are coming out of your existing budget with slight adjustments coming through congress. The shuttle was part of an experimental phase which included skylab - unfortunately the shuttle took too long and skylab deorbitted to early. All of the back to the moon initiative lacks one thing to really make it all sustaintable - purpose. As such the whole thing will likely be short lived, because the moon will be just as boring after us being there for a few years. And if people think sitting in orbit is expensive, oh the moon will be a Lexus to orbits Hyundai.

 

[FortNinety]

I love how in the year 2005 our space ships are being grounded due to foam crap flying off. Goodbye jet packs and flying cars in my lifetime indeed.

 

[happyfunball]

I love how in the year 2005 our space ships are being grounded due to foam crap flying off. Goodbye jet packs and flying cars in my lifetime indeed.

Tell me about it, depressing indeed

 

[Mr Nash]

The Space Shuttle is just way too old. I wish NASA could get the funding to make something much better, but the political atmosphere in the US makes this seem highly unlikely. Sigh. I wish I could see super awesome space ships in my lifetime, but I just don't see that happening.

 

[Phoenix]

I love how in the year 2005 our space ships are being grounded due to foam crap flying off. Goodbye jet packs and flying cars in my lifetime indeed.

Both jet packs and flying cars already exist



http://www.rocketbelt.nl/site.html
http://www.moller.com/skycar/

 

[Phoenix]

The Space Shuttle is just way too old. I wish NASA could get the funding to make something much better, but the political atmosphere in the US makes this seem highly unlikely. Sigh. I wish I could see super awesome space ships in my lifetime, but I just don't see that happening.

We need a reason to build them. If the terrorists were from mars or if there was some threat from beyond the moon, we'd already have them. Right now its hard to get money to build any large craft 'just because' and the money to build stuff just to learn is heavily constrained because it depends on people being able to prove it will work, that there will be some guaranteed benefit, and that it can be done within strict budget constraints.

 

[Deku]

The technology is there and we could go to Mars if we wanted to right now. What is lacking is the political will.

But at least there's some movement to go in that direction. But it likely wont happen in the next 10 years, more like 15-20 years. Still, within our lifetime.

 

[Phoenix]

The technology is there and we could go to Mars if we wanted to right now. What is lacking is the political will.

But at least there's some movement to go in that direction. But it likely wont happen in the next 10 years, more like 15-20 years. Still, within our lifetime.

Kinda sorta. It would be mostly a hack job to deal with solar radiation flare ups and micro meteorites and such. A (2) year long life support system is also in the 'iffy' stage as well unless you plan to pack it all as free dried coffee or something

 

[CoryCubed]

Maybe I'm just weird but after seeing all these nasa/present space disappointments watching shows like star trek or star gate or any other advance human society scifi become highly depressing knowing that technology is so far out of reach in modern times.

 

[Doube D]

While it is true that the Russians "stole" US tech, the US itself needs to thank the Germans for everything it has accomplished in space. Not the least of which was the Saturn 5 rocket designed by Verner Von Braun (a former Nazi no less ;p), as well as other tech that is to this day based on the original V2. So yea, the space program = German (though I concede the fact that the chinese did develop rocket like projectile firwords back in the day).

BTW, can you guys imagine if they end up fudging Atlantis as well and resort to sending the Russian made one for a rescue mission (if it is even serviceable that is)?? lol My own feeling is that based on what NASA has shown thus far, the damage to the tiles is minimal and in line with previous missions and thus they will make the return trip on discovery herself successfully.

 

[Deku]

Kinda sorta. It would be mostly a hack job to deal with solar radiation flare ups and micro meteorites and such. A (2) year long life support system is also in the 'iffy' stage as well unless you plan to pack it all as free dried coffee or something

Well yes, but if we are indeed going now, everything would be sped up as would developments. I'm not pulling this out of thin air, but I've heard many Mars experts mention that humans are capable to go to Mars today, we only lack the political will and the money to go.

But then again, maybe they are just speculating. In anycase, I'd very much like to go to Mars and failing that, to the moon in my lifetime. Even if its just my brain and eyeballs in a jar.

 

[djtiesto]

Any new space vehicles on the drawing board? I mean, NASA was thinking of a near-term future replacement, right?

Yeah, NASA wants to build a new CEV for Bush's proposed new moon/possibly Mars landing. There are 2 teams vying for the contract: Boeing/Northrop Grumman vs. Lockheed Martin. As a matter of fact, I work at the place where the Lunar Module was built; some of my coworkers worked on the LM, and even more, some people I know have been working on proposals and bids for the new CEV; it'll be great for us if we could win.

 

[teiresias]

There are actually posters on walls around Langley Research Center with a picture of one of the NASA shuttles next to a picture of Buran, with a caption that may as well read, "See what happens when you dumb f*cks don't keep your mouths shut. Protect sensitive information!" :lol :lol

 

[Phoenix]

Well yes, but if we are indeed going now, everything would be sped up as would developments. I'm not pulling this out of thin air, but I've heard many Mars experts mention that humans are capable to go to Mars today, we only lack the political will and the money to go.

But then again, maybe they are just speculating. In anycase, I'd very much like to go to Mars and failing that, to the moon in my lifetime. Even if its just my brain and eyeballs in a jar.

Nah, they aren't speculating. They have a lot of theories on how it could be done and many of those theories are sound. None of it is 'impossible', its all kinda a hack to get it all working within the budget. If they were given a blank check and a long term objective plan we'd be a lot further along than we are now. But few people recognize let alone appreciate the accomplishments that the space program has made nor do most people want to admit that we haven't really gotten being in orbit down yet. We CAN go today, but its a HUGE risk.

Any of these simple issues like 'power loss', solar activity, equipment malfunction, etc. are relative nussances in orbit or even in a moon trip, can easily lead to catastropic failure and death of the crew on a mars run.... and they can't swing it around and just come back home. Then once you get there and you decide to land, you've got to subject your equipment to conditions where the chances of malfunction are high. You think we have problems in the desert - just wait until we've had to ride out a martian sand storm.

Can we go today? Sure. Should we go today? My magic 8-ball says "All signs point to no". We're trying to run while we're really just learning to walk... and as of yet we really don't have a true reason to go so you don't have real political and budget backing. With all the politicians and public bitching about the cost overruns on the ISS (uh, we haven't built a space station of this caliber before so no doubt the initial figures are likely to be wrong), a mission to mars is likely to get hosed funding wise before the first piece of metal is cut.

 

[Phoenix]

Maybe I'm just weird but after seeing all these nasa/present space disappointments watching shows like star trek or star gate or any other advance human society scifi become highly depressing knowing that technology is so far out of reach in modern times.

Disappointments?

Thomas Edison was a firm believer in the importance of failure. Failure was what led him to success. Once, when he was working on developing a better battery, a discouraged assistant came up to him and suggested that Mr. Edison must be ready to quit after having performed some 50,000 tests without success. "You must be pretty downhearted with the lack of progress", the assistant said. Edison replied, "Downhearted? We've made a lot of progress. At least we know 50,000 things that won't work!" In the end he developed a nickel-iron alkaline battery that became an industry standard and is still used today-more than 90 years later!

If Edison had let the 50,000 failures get him down, we might not have that battery today. It took more than 2,000 tests to find the right filament for the light bulb.

To succeed you will most undoubtedly fail - that is just the way of things. No one does anything non trivial that hasn't been done before right on their first try. We learn through failure, our scientific method (experimentation) is predicated on acknowledging it. Everytime something goes wrong in any of these scenarios, we learn a very valuable lesson that clearly we didn't know before and that gets us closer to where we need to be. Unbriddled success almost never happens. Sadly, American society so painfully never recognizes this to be the case. To succeed, you will most often times fail - and that failure may be painful and expensive. So unless what you're planning to do isn't worth the possible cost of failure, you just have to accept that its going to happen while doing your best to prevent failure based on your current understandings because if you knew everything that could go wrong, chances are what you're doing is a very simple case or someone else is already doing it.