Support NeoGAF

[Roland_Gunner]

What exactly is going to go badly? Shall we continue to ruin lives by inflicting prison on harmless people? Is that preferable to upsetting the sensibilities of uptight middle class white people?

As long as Canada is a democracy and middle class white people are the majority, then yes you should avoid upsetting their sensibilities. In the US the Carter administration came close to decriminalizing weed in the 70's but conservative scare tactics and the huge amount of coke and crack being used stop it.

We're just getting back from that now. Stories kids failing out of school because they get hooked on consumables or whatever could do that same thing here. People going to jail now is sad, but it is still illegal, and the cost of public sentiment going away from legalization and it being abandoned is exponentially higher.

EDIT: Also, at least in the US, legalization is less popular among blacks than whites. Presumably because of the harsher penalties from use. If minorities see it being brought to their communities in an unstructured way this can continue. Framing this as a black vs white issue is very flawed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/post-legalization-many-blacks-say-no-marijuana-industry-n362166

 

[Gilby]

So you don't get skunk weed up in Canada? I want to know what I'm buying and that it's clean.

Most of the stuff I've seen in stores in van has THC content on the side of the label, similar to alcohol. It's quickly becoming the standard.

 

[benjipwns]

We can't decriminalize it because they might recriminalize it in the future!

 

[neptunes]

I wonder if this cat & mouse chase was how it was in the prohibition era.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Most of the stuff I've seen in stores in van has THC content on the side of the label, similar to alcohol. It's quickly becoming the standard.

That's good. The more informed the consumers are the better.

 

[Twiforce]

As long as Canada is a democracy and middle class white people are the majority, then yes you should avoid upsetting their sensibilities. In the US the Carter administration came close to decriminalizing weed in the 70's but conservative scare tactics and the huge amount of coke and crack being used stop it.

We're just getting back from that now. Stories kids failing out of school because they get hooked on consumables or whatever could do that same thing here. People going to jail now is sad, but it is still illegal, and the cost of public sentiment going away from legalization and it being abandoned is exponentially higher.

People going to jail isn't "sad", it's an inhuman tragedy and injustice. Every life counts. It has to be stopped as soon as possible. I don't care if the majority of the population is content to let it continue. That doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it justifiable.

 

[Gilby]

That's good. The more informed the consumers are the better.

Yup. I don't partake often and thus have a very low tolerance, so I really appreciate it.

 

[Guevara]

I'll never understand why marijuana enthusiasts can't just learn a little patience.

You know it's illegal now. You know the consequences are pretty severe, and yet you know it will legal in some form in as little as 18 months. Remember: marijuana is supposed to be the good drug, that isn't addictive.

Just... wait. That's the test.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

People going to jail isn't "sad", it's an inhuman tragedy and injustice. Every life counts. It has to be stopped as soon as possible. I don't care if the majority of the population is content to let it continue. That doesn't make it right. That doesn't make it justifiable.

Okay, so your position is expressly anti-majoritarian. Whats the alternative? If the Conservatives win the next election and bring back prohibition should they not be seated? Are you going to support the violent overthrow of a future government? Whats the logical conclusion to your position?

 

[darscot]

Sorry but no, you are spouting some serious anti-consumer rhetoric that screws poor people all the time.

What the fuck are you talking about? Now were screwing over poor people. Dude how fucking high are you. This topic is about pot shops being raided. These pot shops are not dirty crack houses. They are clean businesses, yes they do not have all the paper work they should and they are jumping the gun on the letter of the law as far as legality. These business are not selling drugs to children, or robbing from the poor, they don't sell organo or drugs laced with draino. My Father in Law has never smoked drugs in his life and he just rolled into one of these because he has cancer. I could not believe the wealth of information and pamphlets they provided him. They spent time with him explained the options the products available. Yes many of these place if not all of them will happily sell any adult pot. They do provide the medical service aspect of the product professionally. Raiding them is completely pointless.

 

[Condom]

Considering both this and Benji's post, I'm leaning towards 'serious'

Hey, if they want their brownies to be laced with fentanyl, be my guest. Maybe then they'll be talking the capitalist governments acting like mafia.

Paying for hash brownies but getting more expensive fentanyl brownies instead? Sign me up.

 

[Skellig Gra]

What the fuck are you talking about? Now were screwing over poor people. Dude how fucking high are you. This topic is about pot shops being raided. These pot shops are not dirty crack houses. They are clean businesses, yes they do not have all the paper work they should and they are jumping the gun on the letter of the law as far as legality. These business are not selling drugs to children, or robbing from the poor, they don't sell organo or drugs laced with draino. My Father in Law has never smoked drugs in his life and he just rolled into one of these because he has cancer. I could not believe the wealth of information and pamphlets they provided him. They spent time with him explained the options the products available. Yes many of these place if not all of them will happily sell any adult pot. They do provide the medical service aspect of the product professionally. Raiding them is completely pointless.

My original point is that every industry needs some sort of regulation. We can't just assume every store owner will always be an upstanding citizen in perpetuity.

 

[Twiforce]

Okay, so your position is expressly anti-majoritarian. Whats the alternative? If the Conservatives win the next election and bring back prohibition should they not be seated? Are you going to support the violent overthrow of a future government? Whats the logical conclusion to your position?

I believe we have a moral duty to oppose atrocities, and I do believe the mass incarceration of innocent people over something as petty as drugs to be an atrocity. It is an inhumane and cruel system that has destroyed countless lives. There are people alive right now suffering in prison, deprived of their freedom and of their future, and every day more people are arrested and added to those ranks. Every individual arrest is a tragedy unto itself. We must oppose this without compromise. To compromise on drug issues is to compromise on real human lives.

As for the logical conclusion of my position- I don't believe in the moral legitimacy of states at all, so yes, I do support the overthrow of all governments. The drug war is but one of many tragedies that capitalist states perpetuate.

 

[darscot]

My original point is that every industry needs some sort of regulation. We can't just assume every store owner will always be an upstanding citizen in perpetuity.

So basically your fucking paranoid and want to make sure someone is keeping an eye on everyone.

 

[benjipwns]

My original point is that every industry needs some sort of regulation. We can't just assume every store owner will always be an upstanding citizen in perpetuity.

So everything should be illegal until regulations and licenses are created for it?

 

[Skellig Gra]

So basically your fucking paranoid and want to make sure someone is keeping an eye on everyone.

You say I'm paranoid. I say you are naive and don't read any of the news threads on this site.

So everything should be illegal until regulations and licenses are created for it?

When it's a drug? Absolutely.

 

[Suikoguy]

Nobody is going to buy pot from some sketchy dude growing it in his backyard when they can go to 7-11 and buy a pack of joints with their slurpy, so the dealers are getting whatever cash they can before they become irrelevant.

True, assuming the tax rate on the product is reasonable enough.
Tax it too much and you will inadvertently create the same black market.

 

[benjipwns]

When it's a drug? Absolutely.

Because? Is Marijuana really best classified as a "new drug"?

 

[darscot]

You say I'm paranoid. I say you are naive and don't read any of the news threads on this site.

Ha ha no I do not use threads on GAF as a measuring stick for realty. That would be fucking looney tunes crazy.

 

[Twiforce]

Also, re: the topic of regulations and licenses. Regulations are only necessary because the profit motive drives those who produce and distribute things to cut costs and increase their own profit as much as legally possible, regardless of detriment to consumers and to society. Profit is a feature of capitalism; capitalism can only exist through the institution of private property which the state enables to exist by enforcing "ownership" via police.

In other words, we only need the state to regulate things because of the conditions created by the actions of the state itself. The state justifies it's existence by cleaning up it's own mess.

 

[Entropia]

I don't think this is indicative of the 'pot industry'.

These people clearly had no idea what they were doing and just wanted to cash in and make a quick buck.

When legislation/regulations/etc. are properly put in place, proper businesses will crop up both agriculturally and consumer-facing.

 

[thespot84]

When there's already a example of the pathway to success in Colorado for legalization that happened with the help of government regulation, rather than in spite of it, why risk a sure thing for a quick buck?

 

[Jeffolation]

I look forward to legalized, smokable LSD. Hurry up drug scientists.

 

[cube444]

There are at least 10+ of these shops along the Danforth in Toronto.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Slow your roll potheads don't fuck this up for the rest of us.

 

[bryehn]

That would encourage even more irresponsible and temporarily illegal activity. Turning the weed business into the wild west would be the worst possible thing for it.

As opposed to how it is now?

 

[BajiBoxer]

Hey man, I'm not the drug user here. Just being fed second hand information of "lol someone tried to hand me this shit laced with shit, then laughed at me afterwards. Pretty much sold to em that way"

Maybe pcp? Google tells me lsd is destroyed by heat, so you can't smoke it. PCP laced marijuana hapens though. Reading about it a bit, it looks like the bigger health concerns with lack of regulation are THC content, how it's prepared, pesticides used, what it may be absorbing through the soil, and bacteria problems like salmonella. It's a plant amd has a lot of the same issues we have with other plants we consume.

 

[HarryKS]

Pretty sure it was money laundering.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

I think the crackdown was a good idea. Leave the unregulated production/sales to the black market as it was for all this time. Edibles with wrong dosages can really mess with a person. Someone going for a short edible high might end up being high the whole day and wake up high because of an incorrect dosage. That's something that would be avoided with regulated amounts. When you buy a bottle of alcohol you can see the alcohol content and make a sound judgement based off that on how much to drink.

 

[Stumpokapow]

There exists a general class of problems in democracies that when a complex public policy is telegraphed, but before it becomes law, people kinda want to get on with their lives. Strikes me as a waste of resources to enforce a policy in its dying days. The reductio ad absurdum version of this is... suppose that something would become legal tomorrow, then does it make sense for the cops to spend money enforcing the prohibition law at 11:59:30 tonight?

I can appreciate that there may be unsolved regulatory issues, but certainly the stuff in the dispensaries is no more unregulated than the stuff people are getting from dealers in the mean time.

It's not whataboutism to say cops shouldn't ticket people going 3 over the speed limit because they have better things to do, it's an honest analysis of resource constraint, and it strikes me that the same thing is true here.

 

[rokkerkory]

welp, price you pay for wanting taxes without implementing it correctly

US needs to learn from this

 

[wbsmcs]

I think the crackdown was a good idea. Leave the unregulated production/sales to the black market as it was for all this time. Edibles with wrong dosages can really mess with a person. Someone going for a short edible high might end up being high the whole day and wake up high because of an incorrect dosage. That's something that would be avoided with regulated amounts. When you buy a bottle of alcohol you can see the alcohol content and make a sound judgement based off that on how much to drink.

The edibles are clearly marked with the amount of THC in them, and the staff is helpful in clearly indicating to you how much a certain amount of THC could affect you.

THAT BEING SAID...places which advertise free 10 minute "consultations" with a "doctor" over Skype on a Macbook in a backroom...yea...thats going to be a problem

 

[KarmaCow]

There exists a general class of problems in democracies that when a complex public policy is telegraphed, but before it becomes law, people kinda want to get on with their lives. Strikes me as a waste of resources to enforce a policy in its dying days. The reductio ad absurdum version of this is... suppose that something would become legal tomorrow, then does it make sense for the cops to spend money enforcing the prohibition law at 11:59:30 tonight?

I can appreciate that there may be unsolved regulatory issues, but certainly the stuff in the dispensaries is no more unregulated than the stuff people are getting from dealers in the mean time.

It's not whataboutism to say cops shouldn't ticket people going 3 over the speed limit because they have better things to do, it's an honest analysis of resource constraint, and it strikes me that the same thing is true here.

Well with your drug dealer, there's an tacit acknowledgement that you're on your own. The system is based entirely on how much you trust them with not much of a safety net. These businesses are in a grey zone where they have the feeling of safety and quality control buoyed by people trusting the government since these stores are popping up along side other regulated businesses, but really it's not much different.