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NBA Regular Season 2017-18 |OT| KD's chip, IT's hip, LeBron's Sinking Ship

It's fine unless you want to watch the Warriors (and Cavs to a slightly lesser extent).

Idunno. Last Cavs game I went to (no special opponents) were pretty expensive, as I recall. Indians tickets were also fairly high for the seats I was in. Or, I thought they were. But I don't go to live sports too often (I don't support teams down here in Miami because FUCK Miami and only go to live games when I'm back in my hometown of CLE) so I may simply be out of touch.
 

Syrus

Banned
Calling it now boys. OKC in 6 over GSW in finals

.....if russ , pg and Melo click.

Im shooting for the moon here yall.

IBelieve
 
Idunno. Last Cavs game I went to (no special opponents) were pretty expensive, as I recall. Indians tickets were also fairly high for the seats I was in. Or, I thought they were. But I don't go to live sports too often (I don't support teams down here in Miami because FUCK Miami and only go to live games when I'm back in my hometown of CLE) so I may simply be out of touch.

Both the Cavs and the Indians have been good recently right? (I don't watch Baseball...) I used to live in Indiana and they had to basically give away tickets to see the Pacers if they were having an average or sub-par year.

It really depends on how hot the team is at the moment. But I do agree that popular teams are becoming far too expensive to watch in person.
 
It's not like he had to go up against the best team of all time last year and was beating them before he got taken out.

Oh wait...

KD never made a finals without multiple hall of famers if you want to go that route.

*2nd best team.

Doesn't count unless you win the 'ship. Same with the Patriot's "undefeated season."

Anyway, all this debate about Leonard...I just want to see if he can ball again, or if he ends up like Derrick Rose.
 
*2nd best team.

Doesn't count unless you win the 'ship. Same with the Patriot's "undefeated season."

Anyway, all this debate about Leonard...I just want to see if he can ball again.

I'm pretty sure he's calling last season's Warriors the best team of all time, not the one that won 73 and lost the championship.

Hard to argue the 73 win team was better than the one that has Durant, even if they won 6 less games in the regular season...
 
Calling it now boys. OKC in 6 over GSW in finals

.....if russ , pg and Melo click.

Im shooting for the moon here yall.

IBelieve

I'm a huge Thunder homer and, um....no. Only way OKC beats GSW in a 7-game series is via injury or things getting ugly and players getting suspended. If it's just a clean series with everyone on both sides clicking, OKC wins 1, maybe 2 games at most. They might pose more issues for GSW defensively than any other team in the league, but they just don't have the firepower win 4 of 7. Also, as much as I love Russ- he's a force of nature who's just able to will shit into happening at times, OKC just doesn't have a history of executing sharply down the stretch of games with him at the helm. Very difficult to brute force your way to W's against elite teams come playoff time.
 
I'm a huge Thunder homer and, um....no. Only way OKC beats GSW in a 7-game series is via injury or things getting ugly and players getting suspended. If it's just a clean series with everyone on both sides clicking, OKC wins 1, maybe 2 games at most. They might pose more issues for GSW defensively than any other team in the league, but they just don't have the firepower win 4 of 7. Also, as much as I love Russ- he's a force of nature who's just able to will shit into happening at times, OKC just doesn't have a history of executing sharply down the stretch of games with him at the helm. Very difficult to brute force your way to W's against elite teams come playoff time.

I mean, how often is it a clean, no injury series tho? Spurs were whipping the Warriors ass before Kawhi went down and that was with TP injured in the Rockets series prior to that. Cavs got Curry with a bum ankle when they won their title. People used to mock the Spurs for losing against the Griz when they had the 1 seed, but Timmy's knees were shot at that point in that season and Manu literally missed game 1 with a broken elbow.
 

Syrus

Banned
I'm a huge Thunder homer and, um....no. Only way OKC beats GSW in a 7-game series is via injury or things getting ugly and players getting suspended. If it's just a clean series with everyone on both sides clicking, OKC wins 1, maybe 2 games at most. They might pose more issues for GSW defensively than any other team in the league, but they just don't have the firepower win 4 of 7. Also, as much as I love Russ- he's a force of nature who's just able to will shit into happening at times, OKC just doesn't have a history of executing sharply down the stretch of games with him at the helm. Very difficult to brute force your way to W's against elite teams come playoff time.



I sadly agree with everything you said. Im just hoping Melo and PG elevate him and eachother.

Those 3 guys is alot of firepower and adams and roberson with them is killer defense.

I think theirs a chance but probably not. Our bench has to get better too.
 
I mean, how often is it a clean, no injury series tho? Spurs were whipping the Warriors ass before Kawhi went down and that was with TP injured in the Rockets series prior to that. Cavs got Curry with a bum ankle when they won their title. People used to mock the Spurs for losing against the Griz when they had the 1 seed, but Timmy's knees were shot at that point in that season and Manu literally missed game 1 with a broken elbow.

The Spurs were whipping the Warriors ass....for 2 1/2 quarters. Big whoop. GS wins that series in 5, maybe 6 in the worst case if Kawhi doesn't go down.

As for what I said about injuries- I'm talking about major ones that take Curry or KD out of the series for multiple games. Someone having a bum ankle isn't going to bridge the gap that currently exists between OKC and GSW.
 

gutshot

Member
Joel Embiid's got a new look.

DMWfpWcUIAA6qUF.jpg
 
In my old days, the saying was "offense wins games, defense wins championships".

I miss the old days...

The way I think about it:

1) You need offense to be competent. So if you're in the playoffs, you're probably competent.

2) As a general rule of thumb, from that level of competence you can't better yourself as much as a team as if you went from the absolute necessary amount of defense to a good defense.

Or, to put it another way - a team has a rating out of 100, offense accounts for up to 65 points, defense accounts for up to 35 points.

Let's say you need a 50 to be a decent team. A perfect 35 on defense doesn't get you there, and when you add in the effort and exhaustion associated with playing defense, you start to really struggle to be a good team.

But say you have a 50/65 offense and a 5/35 defense. Your team is now good. However, if it wants to improve itself, it has 15 points with which to improve with in the offense category, and 30 points of space in defense.

Essentially, defense in basketball acts more like a tie-breaker, and because teams that play in the finals generally have good to great offenses, you can see the effect of the tiebreaker more easily, hence the saying "Defense wins championships".

Now of course, it isn't that simple. An offense that makes most of its field goals doesn't give up many transition points. An offense that avoids mid-range shots will also let the shot-clock go down more and pass out/in to the 3 pt line/paint, thus increasing its efficiency but also increasing the chance of turning the ball over. Things aren't so simple in actual basketball, and I haven't even gotten into how being involved in the offense often leads to the player trying harder on defense (and the opposite case) (but also making them expend more energy on offense).
 
Both the Cavs and the Indians have been good recently right? (I don't watch Baseball...) I used to live in Indiana and they had to basically give away tickets to see the Pacers if they were having an average or sub-par year.

It really depends on how hot the team is at the moment. But I do agree that popular teams are becoming far too expensive to watch in person.

Yea that could be the issue. I'll look into it further. I'm sure there is no shortage of articles written on the subject if inflating ticket prices in general are a thing.
 
Look I’m a huge Thunder fan, but even myself as much as it pains me to say, probably won’t beat the warriors, unless something crazy happens.

The might make it semi-competitive and a really awesome atmosphere @OKC but... I don’t see it happening.
 
*2nd best team.

Doesn't count unless you win the 'ship. Same with the Patriot's "undefeated season."

Anyway, all this debate about Leonard...I just want to see if he can ball again, or if he ends up like Derrick Rose.

Talking about 2016/2017 same team + Durant is the best team of all time.
 

cinco

Member
Yea that could be the issue. I'll look into it further. I'm sure there is no shortage of articles written on the subject if inflating ticket prices in general are a thing.


This is 1000% a thing. I remember going to see the nwo Heat in their prime against the Rockets and the same section I was paying 100-110 for prices skyrocketed to 160.
 
Other than the Warriors, I think the team I'm most excited to watch is the T-Wolves. I know they've under-performed every year for a while, but adding Jimmy Butler makes them a really scary team. They could upset a few teams this year.

Edit: Ack! How could I forget about Philly? I'll be watching them closely too, I'd love to see them make the playoffs and scare/possibly upset a higher seed!
 
It really doesn't, though. Not in the real season. You know, the one that starts in April.



Yep. Even the seeming outliers, like the 2015 Cavs or 2010 Mavs really ratcheted up their D in the postseason. GSW would not have won their first title in 14/15 without playing some tremendous D. Both Memphis and Cleveland bogged them down offensively in a major way during that run.

No, it definitely is true. A defense can only do so much - if a player is hitting ridiculous shots that 99% of the time wouldn't go in, it can't really do much. When a Curry starts making long-range 3s and gets going, there really isn't much to do. When Kyrie gets hot, it would take a LOT for any defense to stop him.

The thing about defense is that the game isnt played in such a way that if a player plays at an elite defensive level vs a bad defensive, it isn't reflected if both shots go in. There is no "well player 1 had a 50 rating on defense and player 2 a 20 on defense, so when they both guarded a player 3 who had a 100 on offense, player 1 let him only score 0.5 points, and player 2 let him score 0.8 points"

The shot is either in or isn't, and barring a block or steal that can't be as determined by the defense, compared to the offense. Now of course, when you have hundreds of points per game, and a long number of games, etc. you can start to see the difference, the focus on efficiency, etc. but by it's very nature, the defense is mostly passive and reactive. If you play by yourself on offense, you can score one point. If you play by yourself on defense, you don't have some method to directly make the non-existent opponent lose a point.

You also need to account for offenses that force switches and rotations (which is... most offenses). Every time a defense switches, it's under some significant amount of stress. The shot clock mitigates this factor, but defenses are still incredibly vulnerable.

And again, you're not getting into the way defense requires more energy. If a 100 rating offense 0 defense team played a 0 offense 100 defense, the 100 offense would win even if the 100 defense could completely prevent any shots from going into the basket, because over time, both teams will drop slightly in rating due to exhaustion over time, except the defense expends more energy on the side of the ball it tries on. So by the 4th quarter, you actually have something like a 95 rating offense vs a 90 rating defense.

The only way the defense can tie (TIE!) a game in that situation is if starts off with a higher initial rating (like 125 defense), except then you go to overtime, wearing the defense down even more. You would essentially need the defense to have such a headstart on its "rating" that the offense reaches 0 first despite the defense going down at a faster rate, and again, that just results in a tie game.

Again, these are examples and hypotheticals meant to illustrate a point. Actual basketball is more complicated. But the great offense vs great defense thing should be pretty obvious when you consider that, in the peak period for NBA defenses, the early-mid 2000s, a match-up like the Pacers vs Pistons would still result in a score within the 70s. That seems low-scoring, until you think of how big that number is outside of a basketball context.

Hope rebounding doesn't remain a mess...
Marcus Morris, iirc, is slightly injured, which is why Tatum is starting. Either way, he should be a good rebounder for his position (the basic stats don't as evidently show this because he was playing next to Andre Drummond)

Don't know if I can muster up the motivation to watch more than a handful games. The Warriors are coasting to another title anyway.

That's a damn shame, because although last year's playoffs were mostly trash, the regular season was incredible, and the off-season was legendary.

There are too many interesting experiments (CP3-Harden, Boogie-Brow), too many up-and-coming teams (Timberwolves, Bucks, Sixers, Nuggets), and too many teams that look to just be fun to watch (Clippers).

Funnily enough, it's only really Warriors games that I really tune out of due to their huge advantage. Otherwise, during the regular season, I just don't really even think about the Warriors (the Warriors make for exciting plays and boring games).

In any case, I think it's bs to say it all doesn't matter. If in 2 years Myles Turner becomes a superstar, part of how he got there will have been in this season. If in 4 years two HOF level point guards pair up due to the success of CP3-Harden, even if the Rockets couldn't beat the Warriors, then this season will have mattered. The Thibs Bulls never won a championship and made the ECF once, but they still had a major impact on NBA defenses league-wide.

And for a lot of teams, how far they manage to get in the playoffs, or play in the playoffs, or how well specific players played in the playoffs, that all matters.

That being said, I again think this is because I'm sorta able to ignore the Warriors during most of the regular season and then get annoyed at what they do to their playoff series (other playoff series can still entertain)
 
Ratings during the Laker/Celtics/Bulls/Lakers dominating runs gave the best ratings ever for the sport. This will only continue the trend. I don't know how you can be a bball fan and not be excited to see how teams like OKC, Boston, Rockets, & Cavs will be this year with the changes they've made.
 
No, it definitely is true. A defense can only do so much - if a player is hitting ridiculous shots that 99% of the time wouldn't go in, it can't really do much. When a Curry starts making long-range 3s and gets going, there really isn't much to do. When Kyrie gets hot, it would take a LOT for any defense to stop him.

In the course of a game- sure. Those things tend not to hold up over playoff runs and/or 7 game series, though.

Take a look at the list of past champs. Note where they ranked defensively. Yes, it's more complicated than simply saying "defense wins championships" - but, to spew out another oft-used phrase: no D, no rings.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Bulls are winning the east.

Lauri is luc Longley with a three point shot.

He's Marcus fixer with gorgeous golden locks.

He's the future of the NBA.

Believe!
 
In the course of a game- sure. Those things tend not to hold up over playoff runs and/or 7 game series, though.

Take a look at the list of past champs. Note where they ranked defensively. Yes, it's more complicated than simply saying "defense wins championships" - but, to spew out another oft-used phrase: no D, no rings.

I addressed that in the earlier post on NBA defense. As I see it, defense in the NBA is where teams have more room for growth, often making it a tie-breaker of sorts.

Ben Falk had a great article discussing what makes the playoffs different, and he brings up the idea that a single game can seriously swing an entire series.

The playoffs are so intense because of a combination of the stakes being so much higher and the margin for error being so much smaller. A loss in the regular season matters, but there’s still time to make it up. Though a best-of-seven series is the longest we play in the major American professional sports, it’s short enough that one loss can have a major impact on your chance of winning the series. Consider that for two evenly matched teams, at the start of the series the team with home court advantage should have around a 55% chance to win. If they win the first game those odds jump to 2 out of 3; if they lose they fall to 1 out of 3.
That means one play, even a fluky one, can have an enormous impact on the outcome of a series. For example, take this possession from Game 1 of our 2014 series against the Rockets. After an improbable comeback in regulation, the game had gone to overtime, and Houston had jumped out to a quick six point lead in the first minute. We were in dire straits — according to Inpredictable’s win probability estimate, we had only a 15% chance to win the game at that point.

Yes, over the course of a series and a playoffs, things tend to stabilize, but a single game can still greatly shift the odds/results and series arent so long such that the effect within a single series can stabilize too much.
 

gutshot

Member
Embiid is not happy with his minutes restriction.

That is because one day after being surprised when a media member informed him that he would be limited to under 20 minutes in Washington D.C., Embiid, who initially described the situation as “disappointing,” did not hold back when asked about the playing time restrictions he will face to start the season.

“That’s fucking bullshit,” Embiid said. “I wish I was playing more minutes. I think I’m ready, I think I’m ready for more than whatever number they have. I don’t know, I wish I was playing more but we’re going to see how that goes.”

“It’s tough on the coaches,” Embiid said. “I don’t know how you do that because I’m sure coach wants me to finish the game but at the same time that’s like me only playing like four minutes a quarter and just sitting there and getting cold. And my body not being ready to go. If I got to wait like eight, ten minutes and then go and finish the game too. Because if you look at it, if I started the third quarter, I literally have to sit like 16 minutes before I go back in and finish the game. That’s tough on the coaches, that’s tough on my body too.”

Embiid thought that there would be a faster progression in terms of ramping up his minutes limit. He believed that his playing time would be bumped up to 20 minutes for last Friday’s preseason finale against the Miami Heat in Kansas City and 24 minutes for the season opener against Washington.

But that clearly hasn’t happened. And after playing under a minutes restriction during an impressive, albeit shortened rookie season, Embiid had a strong opinion on the entire practice of limiting his minutes.

“I think the concept of minute restrictions is kind of complicated,” Embiid said. “I don’t think it should ever be minute restrictions. I think it should always be about how my body feels and how it’s reacting if I’m tired. And then if I’m tired, I’m sure I’m going to say it and they have the right to pull me out. So we’re just going to work through it.”

I think it's time to Unleash the Process.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Pretty asinine comment. So youve seen all 82 games?

It's just a valid a prediction as "OKC in 6 over GSW." What kind of response is that, "have you seen the future then," the hell is this. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

I get people are hyped, but if the hot take nonsense that ran rampant the past 2 years starts off too early, we'll just put the kabosh on all that a lot sooner this season.
 
It's just a valid a prediction as "OKC in 6 over GSW." What kind of response is that, "have you seen the future then," the hell is this. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

I get people are hyped, but if the hot take nonsense that ran rampant the past 2 years starts off too early, we'll just put the kabosh on all that a lot sooner this season.

let it go wild so the trolling runs free mate. Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order and turn everything to chaos. If you know the thing about chaos, it's fair.
 
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