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[Corronchilejano]

I think that's the heart of the problem. We as a populace, especially since the war on drugs have been subconsciously making the assumption that black people are criminals, and have been discriminating against them.

Since the war on drugs? Have you ever read US history?

 

[Booshka]

That last quote is some real shit man, my stepfather has gotten more and more scared, he's piling up some guns and silver in a safe to represent it.

Ernie is right here, there is a much closer and deadlier threat to black men in America, it ain't ISIS.

 

[Cow Mengde]

This guy is amazing. Wish I heard of him sooner.

 

[Enzom21]

It's crazy how a majority of Americans can live in some fanciful stage play version of America all their lives without knowing the country's truths.

Blacks have never had the luxury.

Therein lies the problem. White people don't have to learn the truth about this country because they don't have to deal with the things black people and other minorities deal with on a daily basis.
So they don't hear us when we say things are bad, they only view it as an attack on an institution that works well for them.

 

[Xe4]

Has gotten out of hand? Did the last like 300 years of American history disappear overnight? It's ALWAYS been like this! There was never a time where it was in hand for black people.

Bad wording on my part, I suppose. I was trying to make that statement that individual police departments go through phases of being more or less asshole-ish, depending on the attention they get from the national government, not specifically that it was ever a good time for blacks. For example, my police department has gotten a lot better after FBI involvement, but it could easily get out of hand again if stuff starts slipping up. Sorry if this conversation is frustrating, I'm trying to make my arguments as well as I can, and see your views as best as I can, but that's really not possible since it's over the internet, and I can't see where you're coming from and you can't see where I'm coming from.

Since the war on drugs? Have you ever read US history?

Yes, the war on drugs has played a significant portion in treating black people like the enemy. It's always been there, but honestly we wouldn't be in this position we are today without the "war on drugs". I'm of the opinion thing would be a hell of a lot better for black Americans, otherwise, as it gave police departments more reasons to harass many black people and imprison them instead of having less reasons to harass black people and imprison them.

I'm no PhD, but I consider myself well versed in US history. Of course I'm not rehearsed in every part of every topic, and I can be wrong or ignorant on see some topics (see a few posts above), but everyone is on some issues. That's why I have these conversations, so I can better my position and my thoughts. Not everything has to be an gigantic debate with winners an loosers, especially issues like this. An honest conversation, if everybody participated and listened, would help many things thing much more. Of course, a lot of people don't listen, so there is room for outrage as well, both play a vital part in progressiveness.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Blacks really don't fear the KKK (well, they do, but more abstractly) or any white supremacist organization. Now they have to fear the supposed white moderates who want to pretend everything is okay when all evidence points to the exact opposite.

And WE are the ones who have problems taking responsibility?

Ya'll can eat a dick.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

It's comments like these that show just how rough race relations are for the establishment in this country. This statement is neither inflamatory or contreversial, but people can't see outside of their bullshit privilege to really let it resonate.

Well, that, and the status quo is awesome for them, so why the fuck should they care about anyone else? Pull your pants up and get a job.

Also, loving that once again, a police apologist has tripped over him/herself to do #notallcops.

I'm glad he fucking said it, and he's not wrong.

 

[YoungHav]

White Liberals (TM) have been very disappointing. My FB friends agreed on Garner because they saw it but nearly every other big case they exhibited blind deference to the police's version of events, and the same callous "obey and nothing will happen!" response that conservatives have. Lack of empathy for blacks and police worship are a problem across the board.

I'm still waiting for the doomsday that was supposed to happen when DiBlasio ended stop n frisk. "NYC will go back to the 70s" "crime will get out of hand" "I'm going to move out of NY", overheard from "liberals" at work. Lol they feared a crime spree if the NYPD scaled back on violating the constitutional rights of black citizens. Pathetic.

 

[Ganhyun]

A lot of vitriol in this thread.

I also read a few posts, that if the subject was changed, and posted, would result in bans and such.

While I disagree that Police=ISIS, I respect the man's right to say it and represent his constituents as he does.

 

[The Technomancer]

Saying that ISIS has not terrorized you is a non-argument. Of course they haven't, they're half a world a way. If there were black Americans in Iraq, I guarantee you they would be killed far more often than if they were in Ferguson.

I think he's using ISIS as an example because a large section of conservative media has tried to spin ISIS as some kind of genuine threat to Americans and the American way of life. And his point is that the police are much more of a threat to black lives than ISIS is

 

[Chie Satonaka]

A lot of hate in this thread.

I also read a few posts, that if the subject was changed, and posted, would result in bans and such.

While I disagree that Police=ISIS, I respect the man's right to say it and represent his constituents as he does.

Where's the hate?

Point it out to me, please.

 

[Ganhyun]

He never said that the police = ISIS. He compared the two by stating that ISIS is not an immediate and harmful threat to his constituency, the police are much more destructive.

I respectfully disagree.

“My ISIS is the police. Nobody from ISIS ever terrorized us as a people as the police do us daily. And they get away with it,” the African-American senator said, using an acronym for the militant group.

To me, this basically is him saying the police-ISIS there. He may not have meant it that way, but its what he said.

Where's the hate?

Point it out to me, please.

Perhaps hate is the wrong word. Vitriol seems to fit better on a second read through. But then again, there seems to be more and more of that in any thread where people have differing opinions anymore.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Perhaps hate is the wrong word. Vitriol seems to fit better on a second read through. But then again, there seems to be more and more of that in any thread where people have differing opinions anymore.

There tends to be quite a bit of "vitriol" when it comes to repeatedly seeing a group of people tasked to protect and serve routinely abusing their power and authority, abusing the citizens they're tasked to protect, not being criminally charged, and being defended by everybody from your neighbor to your elected officials.

There's also that whole institutional racism thing that empowers the above being a pretty big issue as well.

But, yeah, you're right, "difference of opinion". That's the problem.

 

[FelixOrion]

I respectfully disagree.



To me, this basically is him saying the police-ISIS there. He may not have meant it that way, but its what he said.

He's not though. He's not saying "The police are ISIS," he's saying "The police are my ISIS" or basically an immediate threat to him and his constituency; they're what worry him and make him fear for his life and the lives of the people he represents. That's what he's saying.

 

[_Ryo_]

He's absolutely correct. Fuck people that get so offended by the truth.

 

[Condom]

It's comments like these that show just how rough race relations are for the establishment in this country. This statement is neither inflamatory or contreversial, but people can't see outside of their bullshit privilege to really let it resonate.

Well, that, and the status quo is awesome for them, so why the fuck should they care about anyone else? Pull your pants up and get a job.

Also, loving that once again, a police apologist has tripped over him/herself to do #notallcops.

I'm glad he fucking said it, and he's not wrong.

Awesome comment.

It's astounding how people stop their rationality when it is about their own privilege. What simple creatures they are.

 

[Ganhyun]

There tends to be quite a bit of "vitriol" when it comes to repeatedly seeing a group of people tasked to protect and serve routinely abusing their power and authority, abusing the citizens they're tasked to protect, not being criminally charged, and being defended by everybody from your neighbor to your elected officials.

There's also that while institutional racism thing that empowers the above being a pretty big issue as well.

But, yeah, you're right, "difference of opinion". That's the problem.

Do you even read other threads? I've looked at several where someone had a different opinion about something like a movie or game and gotten harassed and attacked just as bad as people in this thread were.

But sure, take my comment about the angry vitriol displayed here and elsewhere and use it against me in a sarcastic way to justify attacking me for not immediately jumping on everyone who you disagree with in the thread. Thanks for proving my point.

My positions on the following subjects:
Police: Too many abuse their power and something needs to be done.
Racism: Its a stupid thing and needs to be eradicated.
Politics: When it became an us vs them environment I lost faith in it.

But, since I didn't immediately come into the thread attacking those who don't agree with my views, obviously I must not agree with you and therefore its ok to try and mock me to feel better about yourself. Good to know how it works.

EDIT:

He's not though. He's not saying "The police are ISIS," he's saying "The police are my ISIS" or basically an immediate threat to him and his constituency; they're what worry him and make him fear for his life and the lives of the people he represents. That's what he's saying.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt on what he meant. I was merely pointing out how I took his comment upon reading it.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Do you even read other threads? I've looked at several where someone had a different opinion about something like a movie or game and gotten harassed and attacked just as bad as people in this thread were.

But sure, take my comment about the angry vitriol displayed here and elsewhere and use it against me in a sarcastic way to justify attacking me for not immediately jumping on everyone who you disagree with in the thread. Thanks for proving my point.

My positions on the following subjects:
Police: Too many abuse their power and something needs to be done.
Racism: Its a stupid thing and needs to be eradicated.
Politics: When it became an us vs them environment I lost faith in it.

But, since I didn't immediately come into the thread attacking those who don't agree with my views, obviously I must not agree with you and therefore its ok to try and mock me to feel better about yourself. Good to know how it works.

EDIT:


I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt on what he meant. I was merely pointing out how I took his comment upon reading it.

You came into this thread first talking about "hatred" which you later changed to vitriol. If you're an ally, it's not a good idea to disparage people for being really fucking upset about this issue. It's upsetting.

I read other threads all the time, though my participation on gaming side has slowed down considerably. I can't speak to what's happening there, but I can to what's happening in threads like these, and "Man people in here sure are pissed off!" isn't the best way to start being constructive.

But whatever. I'm not actually here to tone police. You called me out for my response, so I'm explaining why I responded the way I did.

 

[Ganhyun]

You came into this thread first talking about "hatred" which you later changed to vitriol. If you're an ally, it's not a good idea to disparage people for being really fucking upset about this issue. It's upsetting.

I read other threads all the time, though my participation on gaming side has slowed down considerably. I can't speak to what's happening there, but I can to what's happening in threads like these, and "Man people in here sure are pissed off!" isn't the best way to start being constructive.

But whatever. I'm not actually here to tone police. You called me out for my response, so I'm explaining why I responded the way I did.

You can be an ally and not be a total dick to people. Have you never heard that you trap more flies with honey that salt? It means if you are not just a total dick all the time to anyone who doesn't agree with you, people are more likely to actually listen and respect your opinion or the facts you present instead of putting their fingers in their ears or blatantly ignoring you.

Frankly, I looked at a lot of posts containing vitriol and sarcastic snark and such attacking others as hate. Upon a further review (caused by you challenging me to show you hate), I agreed that hate was too strong a word, but vitriol actually fit better.

I called you out because you felt the need to mock me for explaining why I changed the wording of my post because you still felt I was against you. I'd have left it alone otherwise. The personal mocking was the only reason I called you out.

 

[Xe4]

I think he's using ISIS as an example because a large section of conservative media has tried to spin ISIS as some kind of genuine threat to Americans and the American way of life. And his point is that the police are much more of a threat to black lives than ISIS is

It is a good use in that regard, I'll say that much. Sort of like comparing the flu to Ebola, obviously one is worse than the other, but the same one that is worse is not really a danger to Americans. ISIS should be looked at as a humanitarian crisis in another country, not a "OMG TEH TERRORISTS!!!!" sort of thing.

I still think his wording should have been better. If you are going to use ISIS as an example in any sort of fashion you better make it very clear what your talking about, so that the media, and people who observe the media (such as me) don't misconstrue his points. The title is the perfect example. "My ISIS" is a really bad way of saying that certain police organizations can be just as much of a concern to America as radical groups with power in foreign countries.

I'll finish in saying that a state senator ever having to compare any organization in America to a terrorist organization is a bad thing, and whether true or not, it again justifies the calls for police reform in this nation. The militarization of the police post 9/11 needs to stop, even that and not treating our citizens like enemies of the state would be a good start to stopping the horrific level of violence perpetrated by the Police. Justified or not, the amount of shootings by the police in the US is horrific...

I'm pretty sure I'm preaching to the choir though.

 

[Syph Medwes]

How insulting to the vast majority of honest and decent police officers to be likened to brutal Islamic terrorists who rape and murder indiscriminately.

but gaf told me every cop is racist and wants to kill me

 

[User 406]

I would vote for this man SO hard.

 

[Ganhyun]

but gaf told me every cop is racist and wants to kill me

No, not every cop is racist and not every cop wants to kill you. However, since probably about 99% (just a guess) of cop stories on here or in the news in general are negative, people tend to only see/hear about the negative.

However, the fact that there is so much negative should be a wake up call that we do need reform.

 

[Bessy67]

Wait, do people really not see how his statements are inflammatory and controversial? He literally says if he had a gun he'd use it to shoot cops first and ask questions later.

 

[Ganhyun]

Wait, do people really not see how his statements are inflammatory and controversial? He literally says if he had a gun he'd use it to shoot cops first and ask questions later.

Im sure people do, but most of them are focused on the ISIS comparison and arguing about that.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

You can be an ally and not be a total dick to people. Have you never heard that you trap more flies with honey that salt? It means if you are not just a total dick all the time to anyone who doesn't agree with you, people are more likely to actually listen and respect your opinion or the facts you present instead of putting their fingers in their ears or blatantly ignoring you.

Frankly, I looked at a lot of posts containing vitriol and sarcastic snark and such attacking others as hate. Upon a further review (caused by you challenging me to show you hate), I agreed that hate was too strong a word, but vitriol actually fit better.

I called you out because you felt the need to mock me for explaining why I changed the wording of my post because you still felt I was against you. I'd have left it alone otherwise. The personal mocking was the only reason I called you out.

It's interesting that you'd say this, because that's part of the arguement that's had whenever disussions of this nature come up from people who have the popular viewpoint (in this instance, the position of the defenders of the status quo). "If you'd just frame your points in a way that doesn't bother or offend me, I'd be more likely to listen!" That's been disproven multiple times, because the discussion has been had in every possible "nice" way that it can be had, and there's still been no result or significant changes.

Moving on...

As far as you and I are concerned, I tend to respond with snark most of the time. I'm sorry if that bothered you, but I'm not going to apologize for what I said. Again, you came into the thread talking about hate and vitrol, and I didn't feel it appropriate for the tone of the conversation. People should be mad. If more people were enraged about this shit, comparisons that the senator made wouldn't have to be a thing because we would have stamped this shit out already.

In any case, I'm done with this derail.

Edit:

Wait, do people really not see how his statements are inflammatory and controversial? He literally says if he had a gun he'd use it to shoot cops first and ask questions later.

First off, context.

Second, why is it fair for Police and not anyone else? There are police officers on this very board who have said what amounts to the same thing in defense of officers who are terrible at their occupation.

It's interesting that the words of an old man are more upsetting than the reality of the situation which is actually happening.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

And LOL at some clown demanding Ernie Chambers to resign

Sit down, mark

 

[Ganhyun]

No it's not. Reading comprehension is essential.

I comprehend what the quote I quoted said.

What is ISIS to the American public? A Terrorist group known to do things such as cut off peoples heads and mass killings.

He said

My ISIS is the police.

I agreed with Felix earlier that he is likely right in that he did not mean for it to come out that way. However, the fact is he did say it that way. That sentence right there, equates the local police to ISIS.

I agree that he likely did not mean it the way it sounded. But thats how it sounded.

 

[YoungHav]

Wait, do people really not see how his statements are inflammatory and controversial? He literally says if he had a gun he'd use it to shoot cops first and ask questions later.

He said he would protect himself against police I.e. exercise his right to self defense. What's wrong with that?

 

[Enzom21]

Frankly, I looked at a lot of posts containing vitriol and sarcastic snark and such attacking others as hate. Upon a further review (caused by you challenging me to show you hate), I agreed that hate was too strong a word, but vitriol actually fit better.

Can post so examples of that in this thread?

but gaf told me every cop is racist and wants to kill me

GAF told you that huh? If you're black there's are huge probability that it might happen... not so much if you're white.

Edit: Oh wait you're banned.

 

[SneakyStephan]

I think Americans have become the most frightened people on the face of this earth.

This is the impression I get as well about Americans

 

[Chie Satonaka]

This is the impression I get as well about Americans

Some of us have more rational fears than others.

 

[Timedog]

Fucking GREAT.

 

[ibyea]

While the ISIS comparison is a bit too much, I agree with the rest of his stance.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Cops been terrorizing Blacks for centuries. So this is pretty common sense shit to most people of color I know personally.

The comparison is apt. Terrorism has been a LONG utilized tool to keep Black people in line. From when the KKK rode rampant and local authorities turned a blind eye time and time again to cops beating people just for having the audacity to go to school with White people.

 

[Fenderputty]

Is anyone in here saying the comment was in poor taste a minority?

 

[J10]

I comprehend what the quote I quoted said.

What is ISIS to the American public? A Terrorist group known to do things such as cut off peoples heads and mass killings.

He said

I agreed with Felix earlier that he is likely right in that he did not mean for it to come out that way. However, the fact is he did say it that way. That sentence right there, equates the local police to ISIS.

I agree that he likely did not mean it the way it sounded. But thats how it sounded.

What are the police to black Americans?

 

[Ganhyun]

Show me your in depth research please. Oh that's right, you haven't done any.

They can do the deeds like a group of frigging Mother Teresas for all I care.

Tell me about it, it's gotta suck for everyone to be stereotyped by the actions of a few who happen to get all the media attention. We should create a task force that enforces really messed up laws that help perpetuate those stereotypes, then tell that group to pick themselves up by their bootstraps as we systematically keep them oppressed...

I know, right? People might even have to start carrying firearms with them wherever they go.

It's okay guys, they're not doing it on purpose. They just suck at their job, everything is fine.

Thank God, you weren't adding anything intelligent or worthwhile to the conversation anyway.

NYPD

Far more dangerous 4 letters than ISIS.

LAPD my friend.

I wish you would wake up black in a city where cops prey on you and yours tomorrow. I love how you have empathy for Hideo Kojima's position, but not minorities.

Fuck outta here.

I gotta be honest, I don't give a fuck about the feelings of mountain lions at all. I'll call them terrorists if I feel like it.

Also, hello at the police apologists coming out in this thread. I'm sure Patrol will be here soon to provide an in depth example of #yesallcops.

Ya'll can eat a dick.

but gaf told me every cop is racist and wants to kill me

Plenty of snark, anger, vitriol in these quotes. Some of it is supposed to be funny, obviously.

 

[Dryk]

He's comparing these two on a metaphorical level and not on a literal level.

Yeah I think the point he's trying to make is that the police is an ominous shadow hanging over some people's lives and seems like it will descend on them at any time for no reason the same way ISIS hangs over civilians in their territory.

 

[diffusionx]

The people who think ISIS is a threat to Americans living in the USA are crazy people. And apparently there are a lot of them.

This reminds me of what Muhammed Ali said about the VC.

 

[Florida_Man_5000]

The Feds need to do something about police reform. There's got to be some broad sweeping policies to get these things under control. I like the idea of the police force race demographics mirroring the people they serve, but that might be too tough to implement. I don't know. I like this Chamber guys nicknames as he walks in the door, "the angriest black man in Nebraska", that's bad ass!

 

[Enzom21]

Cops been terrorizing Blacks for centuries. So this is pretty common sense shit to most people of color I know personally.

The comparison is apt. Terrorism has been a LONG utilized tool to keep Black people in line. From when the KKK rode rampant and local authorities turned a blind eye time and time again to cops beating people just for having the audacity to go to school with White people.

Not just the Klan.
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

The similarities between the slave patrols and modern American policing are too salient to dismiss or ignore. Hence, the slave patrol should be considered a forerunner of modern American law enforcement.”

The legacy of slavery and racism did not end after the Civil War. In fact it can be argued that extreme violence against people of color became even worse with the rise of vigilante groups who resisted Reconstruction. Because vigilantes, by definition, have no external restraints, lynch mobs had a justified reputation for hanging minorities first and asking questions later. Because of its tradition of slavery, which rested on the racist rationalization that Blacks were sub-human, America had a long and shameful history of mistreating people of color, long after the end of the Civil War. Perhaps the most infamous American vigilante group, the Ku Klux Klan started in the 1860s, was notorious for assaulting and lynching Black men for transgressions that would not be considered crimes at all, had a White man committed them. Lynching occurred across the entire county not just in the South. Finally, in 1871 Congress passed the Ku Klux Klan Act, which prohibited state actors from violating the Civil Rights of all citizens in part because of law enforcements’ involvement with the infamous group. This legislation, however, did not stem the tide of racial or ethnic abuse that persisted well into the 1960s.

 

[Ganhyun]

What are the police to black Americans?

To me, they are a large group of several different local and regional groups with a rather large need for reform in most of them to fix multiple issues.

Two of which are racial profiling/racist employees and militarization leading to more of a shoot first ask questions later mentality. Power has corrupted several of them and those not corrupted are not doing enough to stop it.

To probably well over half of America (just a guess): A group of people who protect and serve, and a few bad apples are making things harder on everyone.

Edit:

The Feds need to do something about police reform. There's got to be some broad sweeping policies to get these things under control. I like the idea of the police force race demographics mirroring the people they serve, but that might be too tough to implement. I don't know. I like this Chamber guys nicknames as he walks in the door, "the angriest black man in Nebraska", that's bad ass!

Considering the Federal government is helping militarize police forces as much as possible I doubt they really want to help.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

What are the police to black Americans?

White Privilege is never needing to see the situation from the another's perspective and expecting, no, demanding that everyone else see it your way.

Not just the Klan.
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

Oh yea, absolutely. I just didn't feel like listing every example cause honestly there are so many and I'd be here all night, LMAO.

 

[Fenderputty]

Which has wrongfully killed more Americans? (Regardless of color)

A. ISIS
B. Ebola
C. Marijuana
D. Police

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Which has wrongfully killed more Americans? (Regardless of color)

A. ISIS
B. Ebola
C. Marijuana
D. Police

I'll take D for 500, Alex!

 

[J10]

To me, they are a large group of several different local and regional groups with a rather large need for reform in most of them to fix multiple issues.

Two of which are racial profiling/racist employees and militarization leading to more of a shoot first ask questions later mentality. Power has corrupted several of them and those not corrupted are not doing enough to stop it.

To probably well over half of America (just a guess): A group of people who protect and serve, and a few bad apples are making things harder on everyone.

Edit:

It's not a few bad apples. It's the entire institution. It's origins in this country are rooted in systematic oppression. This really can't be disputed.

Plenty of snark, anger, vitriol in these quotes. Some of it is supposed to be funny, obviously.

It's true that I do hate cops. I think that's OK though. What can they do about it besides kill me on tape and get away with it?

 

[FelixOrion]

Which has wrongfully killed more Americans? (Regardless of color)

A. ISIS
B. Ebola
C. Marijuana
D. Police

I'll take D for 500, Alex!

Wrong show, Jones!

Can I ask the audience, Regis?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Wrong show, Jones!

Can I ask the audience, Regis?

Gah!

We all know it's D. How much money do I win?

Spoiler

Doesn't matter, cops will confiscate it via civil forfeiture...

 

[Fenderputty]

I'll take D for 500, Alex!

Wrong show, Jones!

Can I ask the audience, Regis?

Neither got the right show. It was "are you smarter than a 5th grader"

Spoiler

i think that's the name/grade lol