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[Kabouter]

Update in post #2

The underground lives of three suspected neo-Nazis came spectacularly to the surface over the weekend following a bank robbery, a double shooting and an arson in eastern Germany. A cop killing appears to have been solved, but now authorities in the state of Thuringia are suspected of helping the suspects.

Uwe M. and Uwe B. robbed a bank in Eisenach a few days ago and then shot each other in a trailer, where investigators later found a police-issue pistol that linked them to a cop killing in eastern Germany that dated back to 2007. Their roommate and accomplice, Beate Z., is now in jail, accused of blowing up the house where they lived in Zwickau. The trio is a well-known band of fugitive neo-Nazis, and they're at the center of a spectacular investigation in Germany into a series of crimes in the eastern part of the country so odd they would be difficult to invent.

In the rubble of the home which the 36-year-old Beate Z. allegedly blew up, investigators have found nine handguns, a repeater pistol, and a machine gun -- including a gun of the same make used to kill young police officer Michèle Kiesewetter in 2007. The trio, however, has been known to German authorities longer than that. A German far-right band called "Eichenlaub" mentions them in a song penned in 1998 -- a time when they supposedly disappeared underground, suspected of building several bombs, the subject of police arrest warrants.

Uwe M., Uwe B. and Beate Z. belonged to the "Thüringer Heimschutz," loosely translated as the "Thuringian Homeland Defense," a group that has served as a catch-all for the neo-Nazi scene in the eastern state of Thuringia. The Thüringer Heimatschutz grew out of another group, the "Anti-Antifa Ostthüringen" -- a right-wing extremist group that made headlines in the 1990s for bomb threats and attacks. Uwe B., Uwe M. and Beate Z. are among the suspected perpetrators.

Some believe they had organized support during their 13 years underground. But from whom? Perhaps the far-right scene, perhaps organized crime; perhaps -- most controversially -- from Thuringia's state Office for the Protection of the Constitution (which should be fighting neo-Nazis). Some investigators claim the three were in possession of several fake passports.

The aim of the Thüringer Heimatschutz -- an illegal underground group -- is to fight political and social opponents. Its propaganda is directed largely at state-run institutions. It has tried to align itself with the National Democratic Party (NPD), a legal far-right party that remains under observation by Germany's domestic intelligence agency, where officials believe it glorifies the Third Reich and espouses neo-Nazi sentiments (which would be illegal acts in Germany).

Full article here:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,797077,00.html

 

[Kabouter]

Police in Germany have made a second arrest after the dramatic discovery of evidence linking a self-styled Nazi group to the murder of nine foreigners.

A man suspected of being a member of the hitherto unknown "National Socialist Underground" was arrested near the northern city of Hannover.

Eight ethnic Turks, an ethnic Greek and a policewoman were murdered.

The group only came to light this week after one alleged member surrendered and two others killed themselves.

Beate Z - her surname was not given for legal reasons - had been sought by police over an armed robbery in the eastern city of Eisenach.

She handed herself in on Tuesday after allegedly blowing up the flat she had rented in the eastern town of Zwickau.

The remains of two men close to her, who were also wanted over the armed robbery, were found shortly afterwards in a burning caravan in Zwickau.

A pistol recovered from the caravan was found to be the service weapon of a German policewoman shot dead in 2007 in the south-western city of Heilbronn. A second pistol is also believed to have been recovered.

Hans-Werner Wargel, head of the Lower Saxony department for the protection of the constitution, said Germany could be "dealing with the worst case of right-wing violence in decades".

Holger G, 37, was arrested on suspicion of being a member of the National Socialist Underground since the late 1990s, German prosecutors said.

He is suspected of providing his driving licence and passport to the other three alleged members of the group.

The murder victims of foreign origin were small businessmen - mainly kebab stall owners - who were shot in the face in broad daylight at their places of work.

The murders were committed in several German cities between 2000 and 2007.

Germany is home to some 3,000,000 people of Turkish origin.

Police did not link the killings to neo-Nazis until the discovery last week of the two handguns.

Other evidence found included National Socialist Underground propaganda DVDs prepared for sending to news agencies and Muslim cultural centres.

The name National Socialist Underground (German: Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund) echoes the name of Adolf Hitler's National Socialist, or Nazi, party.

Police identified the two men found dead in the caravan as Uwe B and Uwe M.

Beate Z faces charges of murder, attempted murder, arson and belonging to a terrorist organisation.

Germany's far right is small and politically marginalised, but has given rise to concern with periodic attacks on immigrants.

German media have dubbed the group discovered in Zwickau the Brown Army Faction after the now defunct left-wing Red Army Faction group, which killed more than 30 people between the 1970s and 1990s.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15714084

 

[Acheron]

Awful stuff.

 

[GaimeGuy]

uwe boll?

 

[Zibrahim]

Uwe B...Uwe B....

EDIT: REALLY?! COME ON!!

 

[hteng]

Uwe B? Uwe boll?! whaaat?

 

[iamcenok]

He needs to get funding for his movies somehow....




On a serious note... just a huge WTF..

 

[thetrin]

Uwe Boll is a racist? Interesting...

 

[TheOddOne]

Disgusting.

 

[ivysaur12]

uwe boll?

Uwe B...Uwe B....


http://i.imgur.com/3w0fZ.jpg

EDIT: REALLY?! COME ON!!

Uwe B? Uwe boll?! whaaat?

Uwe Boll is a racist? Interesting...

Nice.

But this is some fucked up shit.

 

[Parallax]

How ice cold do you have to be to shoot someone in the face in broad daylight while they are trying to serve someone food? That's some messed up stuff there.

 

[speculawyer]

Thank you law enforcement people. Well done.

 

[Kabouter]

How ice cold do you have to be to shoot someone in the face in broad daylight while they are trying to serve someone food? That's some messed up stuff there.

Yeah, agreed. It's also pretty crazy they managed to avoid getting caught for so long with murders in broad daylight. You would think security cameras would have filmed them at one point, or maybe some witnesses that could identify them.

 

[Dead Man]

At least they were caught, but jesus christ that is fucked up.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Uwe Boll should direct a movie about this.

 

[wsippel]

There's actually far more to it, and even though they were nazis, it's by no means certain the murders had any political or racist motivation. Can't say much more, though.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Can't say much more, though.

Why?

 

[wsippel]

Why?

It's an ongoing investigation and some of the information is not meant to be in the open at this point.

 

[Phantast2k]

It's an ongoing investigation and some of the information is not meant to be in the open at this point.

Soooo, are you a neo-nazi yourself or somehow involved with the police? lol

 

[Salazar]

There's actually far more to it, and even though they were nazis, it's by no means certain the murders had any political or racist motivation. Can't say much more, though.

It's coincidental that they were Nazis and that the victims were Turks ?

 

[dabig2]

It's coincidental that they were Nazis and that the victims were Turks ?

They actually just hated kebabs and decided to murder the people who made/sold them. And by some random quirk of fate they all just happened to be foreign Turks.

 

[SmokyDave]

It's coincidental that they were Nazis and that the victims were Turks ?

Begun, the Kebab War has.

Ugly stuff, whatever the motive.

 

[wsippel]

It's coincidental that they were Nazis and that the victims were Turks ?

I didn't say it was coincidence or that the motivation wasn't racism. I mean, it's certainly possible - it's just not certain yet that this was the (main) motivation. It's a very weird case, and a lot of things don't seem to make any sense yet.


@ Phantast2k:

Neither. But if you follow the case in the media, like a certain recent interview in Focus, my username might seem familiar.

 

[dorn.]

There are rumors that those guys were informants for the Verfassungsschutz(Germany's domestic intelligence agency), though at this point probably half of all "higher ranking" Neonazis are or have been informants really. I hope this will shed some light on some questionable practices, should get interesting.

 

[Salazar]

I didn't say it was coincidence or that the motivation wasn't racism. I mean, it's certainly possible - it's just not certain yet that this was the (main) motivation. It's a very weird case, and a lot of things don't seem to make any sense yet.

Fair enough. I am (depressingly) profoundly confident in the conjecture.

 

[Lafazar]

Neither. But if you follow the case in the media, like a certain recent interview in Focus, my username might seem familiar.

Are you saying you are related to "Thüringens Verfassungsschutzchef" (literal "chief of protection of the constitution of Thuringia") Thomas Sippel and have had access to classified information? If so you probably should not be talking about this on a public internet forum.

 

[wsippel]

Given that they were apparently preparing DVDs that they wanted to send to migration centers with pictures of the murders they took, given that they killed Turks all over the nation, I'd say it's more than likely it's not a coincidence.

That's the thing, though: They prepared this stuff for years and never released anything? Everyone, including the police, obviously thought the kebab murders were an internal, probably protection racket or otherwise organized crime related thing, which can't be what terrorists would want.

 

[Anteater]

oh my, first David Lynch and now Uwe Boll?

 

[wsippel]

Are you saying you are related to "Thüringens Verfassungsschutzchef" (literal "chief of protection of the constitution of Thuringia") Thomas Sippel and have had access to classified information? If so you probably should not be talking about this on a public internet forum.

He isn't my source and I never had access to any classified information. In fact, I haven't talked to him in weeks. We have an overlapping circle of acquaintances, though.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I think this was what I read about in the newspaper yesterday. So stupid.

 

[GaimeGuy]

He isn't my source and I never had access to any classified information. In fact, I haven't talked to him in weeks. We have an overlapping circle of acquaintances, though.

you've been beating around the bush the whole damn thread, dude. Either you can say something or you can't, and either you say it, or you don't.

 

[Lafazar]

He isn't my source and I never had access to any classified information. In fact, I haven't talked to him in weeks. We have an overlapping circle of acquaintances, though.

Oh, ok. I still think it might be a bad idea for you to talk about this publicly since you are somewhat close to a still running investigation. This is all over German news currently and there is a lot of public interest.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

germany, i am disappoint

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Anyone think that right wing extremism in Europe is going to get out of hand in a really bad way? I'm still disgusted by right wing politicians denying that their rhetoric over the past decade has created the climate in which things like these can happen and might happen more often.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Anyone think that right wing extremism in Europe is going to get out of hand in a really bad way? I'm still disgusted by right wing politicians denying that their rhetoric over the past decade has created the climate in which things like these can happen and might happen more often.

or perhaps immigration got out of hand first

 

[Milchjon]

Anyone think that right wing extremism in Europe is going to get out of hand in a really bad way? I'm still disgusted by right wing politicians denying that their rhetoric over the past decade has created the climate in which things like these can happen and might happen more often.

While I think this is somewhat true, Germany isn't really a prime example of this. Unlike some sorrounding countries, we don't have far right parties at the government level, for example.

Also, when it comes to the rhethorics, US politics still seem more extreme.

 

[SmokyDave]

Anyone think that right wing extremism in Europe is going to get out of hand in a really bad way? I'm still disgusted by right wing politicians denying that their rhetoric over the past decade has created the climate in which things like these can happen and might happen more often.

It is going to get out of hand but the causes are far more complicated than just 'right-wing rhetoric'.

 

[wsippel]

Oh, ok. I still think it might be a bad idea for you to talk about this publicly since you are somewhat close to a still running investigation. This is all over German news currently and there is a lot of public interest.

You're probably right. I mostly wanted to point out that the media is once again jumping to conclusions a lot, and the case is actually far more complex than it looks - and not just the possible involvement of the Verfassungsschutz. The more obvious something seems, the more likely it is to be wrong.

Nobody really understands why the two would have committed suicide for example, or why the woman blew up the house and handed herself over. By blowing up the house, she didn't destroy any evidence, but she drew a lot of attention. Not to mention she wasn't even wanted at this point. Makes no sense at all.


@ ElTopo:

Yes, a political motivation was considered at first. But after it happened again and again, and no terrorist group claimed it, organized crime simply seemed more and more likely.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

While I think this is somewhat true, Germany isn't really a prime example of this. Unlike some sorrounding countries, we don't have far right parties at the government level, for example.

Brevik mentioned Geert Wilders and others in his manifesto or whatever it was. Everything is international these days, so are right wing groups and ideologies.

It is going to get out of hand but the causes are far more complicated than just 'right-wing rhetoric'.

I'm not denying that. The people that scream at the top of their lungs that past governments should take responsibility for their failed immigration policies, should also take responsibility for creating and nurturing the disgusting atmosphere we live in though.

 

[Milchjon]

or perhaps immigration got out of hand first

While there have been problems with segregated communities and whatnot, this doesn't really apply to Germany. Or at least it shouldn't.

1. Most of the immigrants were actively invited to come work in Germany after WW2. (Of course, for some reason we foolishly expected them to return home later, who could've known that wouldn't work out...)

2. The "native" German population has been shrinking for decades AFAIK. If it wasn't for immigrants giving birth to more babies, our population would have been at a much lower number by now, which isn't really a good thing.

3. They're not "taking are jerbs". Even now most immigrants do work most Germans, even with lower education, would refuse to do.

4. Apart from maybe parts of Berlin, you never get the feeling of being a stranger in your own country. There's very few places with that "Chinatown" feeling.

5. Unemployment is at the lowest it's been in decades. (See point 3)

 

[n0n44m]

well looking at the map on Spiegel.de it most murders happened a long way from each other with a lot of time in between... most racist/right wing violence I hear about in Europe is usually pretty local (e.g. Malmö shooter)

http://www.spiegel.de/flash/flash-18070.html

I mean I can sorta see why it's hard for authorities to deal with some group which randomly shoots 2 immigrants with long periods of nothing in between, as I supposed there are more (organized crime) murders happening in the same period which makes it hard to figure out the connection

 

[Chuckie]

While I think this is somewhat true, Germany isn't really a prime example of this. Unlike some sorrounding countries, we don't have far right parties at the government level, for example.

If by surrounding you mean Holland, we also don't have far right parties in the government (yet :/ )

Brevik mentioned Geert Wilders and others in his manifesto or whatever it was. Everything is international these days, so are right wing groups and ideologies.

Yeah he mentioned him and that's it. There is no 'international' link between Wilders and Brevik.

 

[desu]

4. Apart from maybe parts of Berlin, you never get the feeling of being a stranger in your own country. There's very few places with that "Chinatown" feeling.

I guess this depends on where you grow up? I am from the north and Berlin/Ruhrgebiet have given me the "stranger in your own country" feeling more than once.

 

[Kabouter]

If by surrounding you mean Holland, we also don't have far right parties in the government (yet :/ )

Yet for all intents and purposes, we have two . PVV and SGP have sufficient influence on government policy that they can be considered part of the cabinet imo.

 

[Chuckie]

Yet for all intents and purposes, we have two . PVV and SGP have sufficient influence on government policy that they can be considered part of the cabinet imo.

They don't have ministers and state secretaries. Their influence only comes from supporting the current government. So far I see no significant influence from the PVV and SGP, at least not enough to even remotely suggest they are 'governing' the country.

 

[Milchjon]

I guess this depends on where you grow up? I am from the north and Berlin/Ruhrgebiet have given me the "stranger in your own country" feeling more than once.

Yeah, I'm from the south. I haven't spend that much time in the Ruhrgebiet, so I probably missed that. Still, I think it's a lot different from maybe parts of Paris or London.

 

[Kabouter]

They don't have ministers and state secretaries. Their influence only comes from supporting the current government. So far I see no significant influence from the PVV and SGP, at least not enough to even remotely suggest they are 'governing' the country.

The influence from the PVV is of course extensive, certainly more than fair given their number of seats in parliament. You see this in things like the mention of Israel in the coalition agreement, the whole 'animal cops' thing, the plans to introduce minimum sentences for serious crimes, immigration has become harder still, there is the burqa ban, the resistance of the Netherlands to free immigration from Romania and Bulgaria etc. The PVV has done very well with this cabinet, and saying they are for all intents and purposes governing is fair, even if they do not have any actual cabinet positions.

The influence of the SGP is of course relatively minor, but then it would be with only two seats in parliament. They have however secured for themselves certain concessions. The delay in education cuts, no changes to Sunday shopping laws and of course civil servants can still refuse to marry gay and lesbian couples. Certainly relative to their size they have a disproportional influence on policy, but whether that makes them a part of the cabinet or not is debatable of course.

 

[Chuckie]

Kabouters verhaal.

Ok, that is actually more influence than I thought they had.

I still like to make the distinction though because foreign media tend to misunderstand (and blow up) Wilders position in the government.

 

[Kabouter]

Ok, that is actually more influence than I thought they had.

I still like to make the distinction though because foreign media tend to misunderstand (and blow up) Wilders position in the government.

Yes, absolutely, while the PVV has serious influence on government policy, the main driving force behind it is still the VVD, which is just your typical moderate right-wing conservative party.

 

[wsippel]

Look how that one turned out.

With all due respect, but our police makes the cops from Dexter look like geniuses.

Hindsight is 20/20. There wasn't exactly much to work with. Shoot someone not connected to you, in a public space, in a different city, for no obvious reason, and chances are you'll never get caught.