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[soundwave05]

PS3 is going to probably cost $400, and cost even more than to make.

You can't seriously expect Nintendo to match that on the Rev, when the Rev is likely to cost $200 and then squeeze all that into something the size of three DVD cases.

As long as they can run a decent version of the Unreal 3 engine at 480p resolution, they'll be fine. That's more than enough horsepower for what Nintendo needs the system to do.

 

[goomba]

Chances are the graphics will be more or less the same, you just won't get the higher HD resolutions on the Revolution.

IAWTP

 

[drohne]

iwata never says that the revolution is comparable to the other two consoles. he says that he doesn't think you'll be able to tell the difference on a normal tv. note that the first time he said this, he proceeded to say that there wasn't much visual difference between twilight princess and next-gen games. what speaks louder than the actual content of his remarks is how determined he is to fudge the issue. all of which rather validates pimpwerx's idea that the disabled are nintendo's new target audience.

 

[SantaC]

iwata never says that the revolution is comparable to the other two consoles. he says that he doesn't think you'll be able to tell the difference on a normal tv. note that the first time he said this, he proceeded to say that there wasn't much visual difference between twilight princes and next-gen games. what speaks louder than the actual content of his remarks is how determined he is to fudge the issue. all of which rather validates pimpwerx's idea that the disabled are nintendo's new target audience.

Nintendo has also stated in recent interviews that they wont abandon the hardcore group...

 

[soundwave05]

How much of a performance savings do you get by only using 480p versus supporting 720p/1080i/1080p? Anyone with a good understanding of PC GPUs know?

If you increased the poly count and added higher resolution textures to Zelda: TP, actually I do think it would look like a damn fine next-gen game, so I think that's what Iwata meant.

 

[SantaC]

If you increased the poly count and added higher resolution textures to Zelda: TP, actually I do think it would look like a damn fine next-gen game.

yes though iwata (as of today) stated that Zelda:TP is a GC game...

 

[imastalker co.]

PS3 is going to probably cost $400, and cost even more than to make.

You can't seriously expect Nintendo to match that on the Rev, when the Rev is likely to cost $200 and then squeeze all that into something the size of three DVD cases.

well, if history is anything to go by, sure i can.

if i remember correctly, and please, let me know if im wrong. but manufacturing cost at the system launches this gen were what?

PS2 - $500+
xbox - $800
GameCube $250-ish

that's what i remember being the word on the street way back when, but hey, like i said, let me know if im wrong.

 

[soundwave05]

well, if history is anything, sure i can.

if i remember correctly, and please, let me know if im wrong. but manufacturing cost at the system launches this gen were what?

PS2 - $500+
xbox - $800
GameCube $250-ish

that's what i remember being the word on the street way back when, but hey, like i said, let me know if im wrong.

More or less correct, but remember, GameCube also came out 18 months after the PS2. This time, Nintendo will have to be more or less 5-6 months away from Sony at most, so they won't have as long of a time gap (which would equate to savings on price of tech).

Also the new controller likely has eaten up a larger portion of the hardware budget (also requires the TV sensors) and Nintendo is including WiFi and 512MB internal memory storage whereas the GameCube was pretty bare bones ... as I recall the Japanese GC didn't even come with any A/V cables.

Also GC was losing Nintendo about $20 per unit at launch, that's the only number I ever recall being published, not $50+.

 

[dark10x]

You can argue all you want, but it is pretty obvious that Revolution should match or exceed XBOX360 or even PS3.

I wasn't convinced before (Johnny showed me the way), but I am now a believer and anything besides that would be considered a crushing blow and failure on the part of Nintendo (for me, at least).

 

[soundwave05]

I don't think the system is contingent on graphics at all.

Whether they have games that really use the new controller well are going to be more important, far more important.

Nintendo just needs something decent visually, they don't need to break the bank trying to match Sony/MS to make some insecure internet fanboys feel better about their purchase. That's the last thing I believe Nintendo cares about right now.

I'm expecting more of a gap like the between the Dreamcast and PS2, but maybe even a little closer, because Nintendo can "cheat" due to not supporting HD.

 

[imastalker co.]

More or less correct, but remember, GameCube also came out 18 months after the PS2. This time, Nintendo will have to be more or less 5-6 months away from Sony at most, so they won't have as long of a time gap (which would equate to savings on price of tech).

how would you go about applying this logic with the xbox? it came out days after xbox, and i think we can all safely say that for the most part, it's on par with that hardware. yes i know about the hard drive and nic. but take those out, and do you really think they xbox would've dropped more than $550 in manufacturing cost?

i really think people here aren't giving Nintendo enough credit when it comes to getting great hardware made at cheap prices.

what gives? they have a pretty good record of making cheap, small, powerfull hardware with controllers that have bells and whistles for the most part wouldn't you say?

 

[Musashi Wins!]

please spill what you know via pm.

hey johnny pm me.

Johnnnyyyyy...the game's not over

 

[dark10x]

I don't think the system is contingent on graphics at all.

Whether they have games that really use the new controller well are going to be more important, far more important.

Nintendo just needs something decent visually, they don't need to break the bank trying to match Sony/MS to make some insecure internet fanboys feel better about their purchase. That's the last thing I believe Nintendo cares about right now.

I agree, the games are most important and I also didn't believe that Nintendo was so concerned with matching the other two.

However, like I said, I now EXPECT them to match the other two.

 

[soundwave05]

The XBox was something Microsoft rushed to market, they had like 1/2 the time Nintendo did to get their machine out there, as a result the XBox was more of just an "off-the-shelf parts" console that MS compensated for by taking heavy losses/unit.

This generation is different because MS had considerably more time and used the same tech partners as Nintendo.

Why is it soooooo important that the graphics be exactly the same anyway?

You're not going to die if the system isn't quite as good, that's not going to make or break the system at all.

 

[Pimpwerx]

your point being? and before you say anything. don't forget that in the past Nintendo has released consoles that are....

* More powerfull than the competetion
* Smaller
* included a revolutionary controller
* was $100 cheaper
* took a loss on the hardware at launch

revolutionary controller aside, they did with the GameCube as well. that's 2 times in a row that they've pulled this off, exactly why can't they do it again?

i really think that those of you who feel Revolution will be weaker due to the fact that DS is weaker than PSP really have the wrong idea altogether. consoles and portables.... well, when it comes to Nintendo atleast, tend to have completely different priorities when being designed.

so before you guys go on and on about how the system is going to be noticeably weaker because...

A. It's smaller
B. it's expected to be cheaper
C. their direction with the DS

all i can say is...
- look at Nintendo's history of console design. when have they ever had a console that didn't hold their own against the competetion? remember, consoles, not portables. two very different things.
- watch Iwata's GDC keynote again.
- ATI specializes in making small graphics cards.
- GameCube's 12 Million Polys Vs. PS2/xbox's 70 Million + Polys

those of you who keep talking about how it's common sense that it's gonna be weaker because of what nintendo has been saying. exactly what are you basing this on? was it when Iwata said that system would hold it's own graphically against the other 2 systems? was it when Iwata said that graphics are important to him, but that graphics aren't enough to provide new experiences? or are you just taking kaplans word for it ; )

i mean, i don't see how you guys can say it's common sense.

Short of 65nm chips, Rev will be the weakest of the three. Want to put money on it? The system's form factor had decided this long before Iwata ever uttered a single word. That said, it's been said a million times now. They aren't looking to compete power-wise. Duh. It's gonna be weakest. Past trends do not determine future ones. They are a nice indicator, but if we want a really good trend to follow, how about the trend of Nintendo being frugal on hardware? Coming in anywhere close to Sony puts them behind. Sony will continue to hold a tech advantage over systems released near theirs b/c they make the components and thus hold a sizeable advantage when it comes to manufacturing costs. Especially over time, economies of scale will always work in their favor. PEACE.

 

[johns all like]

this thread has had the same thing told over and over again.

its not about graphics, its about games.

it'll have comparable graphics to the other systems.

yeah, we know it'll be one of those two. everyones dug into the sand on this one so lets let this go.

 

[imastalker co.]

Why is it soooooo important that the graphics be exactly the same anyway?

it's not. im more than content with what Revolution offers. im just saying, it really seems like people aren't giving Nintendo the credit that they deserve when it comes to getting systems designed.

i got a question though for the tech heads here. how much resources of the 360 and PS3 would you guys say go into all the multimedia / PC functionality? how much more powerfull and/or efficient do you think the 360 and PS3 would be if they were built strictly for gaming from the ground up? or, how much cheaper do you think they'd be if they took all the multimedia / PC functions out?

They aren't looking to compete power-wise.

so because of this, it won't allow them to make competent hardware? they weren't really looking to compete powerwise with GameCube. they just wanted to make a small, quiet, efficient game machine. you know, like what they're doing with Revolution.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

your point being? and before you say anything. don't forget that in the past Nintendo has released consoles that are....

* More powerfull than the competetion
* Smaller
* included a revolutionary controller
* was $100 cheaper
* took a loss on the hardware at launch

revolutionary controller aside, they did with the GameCube as well. that's 2 times in a row that they've pulled this off, exactly why can't they do it again?

i really think that those of you who feel Revolution will be weaker due to the fact that DS is weaker than PSP really have the wrong idea altogether. consoles and portables.... well, when it comes to Nintendo atleast, tend to have completely different priorities when being designed.

so before you guys go on and on about how the system is going to be noticeably weaker because...

A. It's smaller
B. it's expected to be cheaper
C. their direction with the DS

all i can say is...
- look at Nintendo's history of console design. when have they ever had a console that didn't hold their own against the competetion? remember, consoles, not portables. two very different things.
- watch Iwata's GDC keynote again.
- ATI specializes in making small graphics cards.
- GameCube's 12 Million Polys Vs. PS2/xbox's 70 Million + Polys

those of you who keep talking about how it's common sense that it's gonna be weaker because of what nintendo has been saying. exactly what are you basing this on? was it when Iwata said that system would hold it's own graphically against the other 2 systems? was it when Iwata said that graphics are important to him, but that graphics aren't enough to provide new experiences? or are you just taking kaplans word for it ; )

i mean, i don't see how you guys can say it's common sense.

Just to put things in more context it's really along the lines of GC's 32 million polygons if your going to use PS2's 75 million raw polygon output of it's Graphic Syntesizer. 12 million was a vague estimate on achievable numbers across the board for real world scenerios.

As for Revolution's performance I see a 65 nm process for it to pack in the graphic capablities for such a small unit if they wait long enough.

 

[Spike]

ATI Mobility Radeon X800

Specifications

Technology Features

* Up to 16 parallel pixel pipelines
* Six programmable vertex shader pipelines
* 0.13 micron low-k fabrication process
* 256-bit quad-channel GDDR3 memory interface
* PCI Express® x16 lane native support

Smartshader™ HD

* Support for Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 programmable vertex and pixel shaders in hardware
* DirectX® 9.0 Vertex Shaders
o Vertex programs up to 65,280 instructions with flow control
o Single cycle trigonometric operations (SIN & COS)
* DirectX® 9.0 Extended Pixel Shaders
o Up to 1,536 instructions and 16 textures per rendering pass
o 2nd generation F-buffer technology accelerates multi-pass pixel shader programs with unlimited instructions
o 32 temporary and constant registers
o Facing register for two-sided lighting
o 128-bit, 64-bit & 32-bit per pixel floating point color formats
o Multiple Render Target (MRT) support
* Complete feature set also supported in OpenGL® via extensions

Smoothvision™ HD

* 2x/4x/6x Anti-Aliasing modes
* Temporal Anti-Aliasing
* 2x/4x/8x/16x Anisotropic Filtering modes

3Dc™

* High quality 4:1 Normal Map Compression
* Works with any two-channel data format

Hyper Z™ HD

* 3-level Hierarchical Z-Buffer with Early Z Test
* Lossless Z-Buffer Compression (up to 48:1)
* Fast Z-Buffer Clear
* Z Cache optimized for real-time shadow rendering
* Optimized for performance at high display resolutions

Videoshader™ HD

* Seamless integration of pixel shaders with video in real time
* Fullstream™ video de-blocking technology for Real, DivX, and WMV9 formats
* Videosoap™ noise removal filtering for captured video
* MPEG1/2/4 decode and encode acceleration
o DXVA Support
o Hardware Motion Compensation, iDCT, DCT and color space conversion
* All-format DTV/HDTV decoding
* YPrPb component output for direct drive of HDTV displays†
* Adaptive Per-Pixel De-Interlacing and Frame Rate Conversion (temporal filtering)

Think this, but much better.

 

[imastalker co.]

Just to put things in more context it's really along the lines of GC's 32 million polygons if your going to use PS2's 75 million raw polygon output of it's Graphic Syntesizer. 12 million was a vague estimate on achievable numbers across the board for real world scenerios.

i understand that. 12 mil was obviously a moddest estimate. my point was that with GameCube, and Revolution, Nintendo isn't looking to play the numbers game with MS and Sony.

 

[soundwave05]

ATI Mobility Radeon X800


Think this, but much better.

Yup that wouldn't be bad at all IMO. Especailly if only has to render at 480p.

With the GameCube/Dolphin though Nintendo said upfront and quite often the GC would be as good as the PS2 if not better, so you should also keep that in mind. They have not made any similar statements this time around.

 

[dark10x]

ATI Mobility Radeon X800

How small are the laptops with this thing? My laptop is using a 6800go Ultra, but the PCI-X nature of it allows it to be replaced with the X800 mobile (though I certainly wouldn't want to).

It just so happens that this laptop is quite massive and uses FIVE fans (which are always going). It can generate a TON of heat, yet is MUCH larger than the Revolution box. The amount of "stuff" around the GPU is pretty insane too. A MASSIVE and lengthy heat sink sits across the thing and there is a fan dedicated to it. ATI's X800 requires the same kind of cooling on the go.

Things will have to become much smaller and cooler (possible, but more expensive).

 

[soundwave05]

How small are the laptops with this thing? My laptop is using a 6800go Ultra, but the PCI-X nature of it allows it to be replaced with the X800 mobile (though I certainly wouldn't want to).

It just so happens that this laptop is quite massive and uses FIVE fans (which are always going). It can generate a TON of heat, yet is MUCH larger than the Revolution box. The amount of "stuff" around the GPU is pretty insane too. A MASSIVE and lengthy heat sink sits across the thing and there is a fan dedicated to it. ATI's X800 requires the same kind of cooling on the go.

Things will have to become much smaller and cooler (possible, but more expensive).

That's true, but keep in mind that Revolution is still probably about 10-12 months away from launch. Also I think Nintendo is saving space by using a very, very slimline DVD player like the ones used in car audio, versus the ones in even laptops.

How well does a Radeon Mobility X800 run something like Half-Life 2?

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

You can argue all you want, but it is pretty obvious that Revolution should match or exceed XBOX360 or even PS3.

I wasn't convinced before (Johnny showed me the way), but I am now a believer and anything besides that would be considered a crushing blow and failure on the part of Nintendo (for me, at least).

:lol
Best post ever.

slightly below - matching Xbox360 = as expected
exceeding Xbox360 = pleasently suprised
exceeding PS3 = broken jaw

We all know very well that the Rev will not outperform the PS3, if it does Microsoft and Sony should just leave the console business because they obviously have no clue what they're doing.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Also I think Nintendo is saving space by using a very, very slimline DVD player like the ones used in car audio, versus the ones in even laptops.

How well does a Radeon Mobility X800 run something like Half-Life 2?

Space? What about money? Those slot drives are very expensive, and I've never really seen one meant for DVDs: mainly just CD ROM, and those don't take 8cm discs very well.

Where is Nintendo getting this specially built DVD ROM drive? How much is it costing them? I don't think Matsushita would go to the trouble of designing a specially built slotloading drive for Nintendo just because they're "buddies". How can they afford uber powerful yet tiny and low wattage chips in addition to that?

Mysteries abound.

 

[dark10x]

We all know very well that the Rev will not outperform the PS3, if it does Microsoft and Sony should just leave the console business because they obviously have no clue what they're doing.

In Johnny we trust, I say! It's all or nothing! I won't even entertain the possibility that Revolution won't match up (or exceed) to the competition. That's just not possible anymore.

 

[soundwave05]

Space? What about money? Those slot drives are very expensive, and I've never really seen one meant for DVDs: mainly just CD ROM, and those don't take 8cm discs very well.

Where is Nintendo getting this specially built DVD ROM drive? How much is it costing them? I don't think Matsushita would go to the trouble of designing a specially built slotloading drive for Nintendo just because they're "buddies". How can they afford uber powerful yet tiny and low wattage chips in addition to that?

Mysteries abound.

Well I'm guessing when you place an order for at least 20 million of them over four or five years, you get like a cut in price.

Just a hunch though.

Another place Nintendo is likely saving some $$$ ... the DVD drive in the Rev probably costs them less than the DVD drive in the GCN did back in 2001 ... DVD drives cost almost nothing these day to buy at retail, let alone what the manufacturing cost must be.

I'm not certain, but I'd guess something akin to a ATi Mobility X800 could render some pretty impressive graphics if it only had to pump out 480p visuals.

 

[..pakbeka..]

Space? What about money? Those slot drives are very expensive, and I've never really seen one meant for DVDs: mainly just CD ROM, and those don't take 8cm discs very well.

Where is Nintendo getting this specially built DVD ROM drive? How much is it costing them? I don't think Matsushita would go to the trouble of designing a specially built slotloading drive for Nintendo just because they're "buddies". How can they afford uber powerful yet tiny and low wattage chips in addition to that?

Mysteries abound.

there are small fairies inside the revolution, they will take care of the slot loading

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Not many slot loading devices take 8cm media very well.

Nintendo is pushing that as a big thing.

Matsushita therefore has to design a new drive.

GC drives are regular DVD drives with oh-so-little modifications.



These 8cm taking slot loading DVD drives would be probably only used for the Revolution. Even an order of 20 million wouldn't cut the costs of so unique a drive.

If you know of an existing model, please show me (not being sarcastic, I really haven't seen any so I'd like to know).

 

[soundwave05]

Not many sloat loading devices take 8cm media very well.

Nintendo is pushing that as a big thing.

Matsushita therefore has to design a new drive.

GC drives are regular DVD drives with oh-so-little modifications.



These 8cm taking slot loading DVD drives would be probably only used for the Revolution. Even an order of 20 million wouldn't cut the costs of so unique a drive.

If you know of an existing model, please show me (not being sarcastic, I really haven't seen any so I'd like to know).

I believe the Apple Mac Mini uses slot drives that accept full-sized and 8 cm discs.

I'm gonna guess Nintendo already figured this out ... since y'know they already announced it and all. It's not really a "mystery" anymore.

Personally I doubt Matsushita or whoever the DVD supplier is are doing anything radically different. It's just a regular DVD slot drive with a few minor modifications to accomodate 8 cm discs.

 

[Spike]

With the GameCube/Dolphin though Nintendo said upfront and quite often the GC would be as good as the PS2 if not better, so you should also keep that in mind. They have not made any similar statements this time around.

Iwata said: "You will say WOW!"

I expect to say "WOW!"

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I believe the Apple Mac Mini uses slot drives that accept full-sized and 8 cm discs.

I'm gonna guess Nintendo already figured this out ... since y'know they already announced it and all. It's not really a "mystery" anymore.

The mystery is how and more importantly how much: it all goes into the cost of the platform. Doesn't matter if they've announced it. Lots of companies announce loads of stuff, some of it doesn't come true. If the mac mini uses it, well that's the first I've heard of a drive like that: and Apple machines are insanely expensive as it is. Doesn't sound like a Nintendo solution to me.

More money in DVD drive = less money in complicated chipset.

 

[johns all like]

just puttin this out there,

the pentium M chips at a 1.7 supposively run at a comparable speed of the pentium 4 3 ghz processors.

the video card in my laptop, the ati firegl v5000, is 128, but has run close to 512 cards in benchmarks.

manufacturers are cutting heat out which makes things: faster and smaller.

i really dont think that the rev is gonna be super powerful, but dont think that just cause its small it wont be as powerful. modern laptops are proof that size doesn't matter. unless your comparing penis's, in which case, it does.

 

[soundwave05]

The mystery is how and more importantly how much: it all goes into the cost of the platform. Doesn't matter if they've announced it. Lots of companies announce loads of stuff, some of it doesn't come true. If the mac mini uses it, well that's the first I've heard of a drive like that: and Apple machines are insanely expensive as it is. Doesn't sound like a Nintendo solution to me.

More money in DVD drive = less money in complicated chipset.

Given Nintendo's stingy nature, do you seriously think they'd accept a DVD drive that screws up their hardware overall?

The Mac Mini uses a slot loading disc drive, and that's the cheapest Mac you can buy.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

:lol
Best post ever.

slightly below - matching Xbox360 = as expected
exceeding Xbox360 = pleasently suprised
exceeding PS3 = broken jaw

We all know very well that the Rev will not outperform the PS3, if it does Microsoft and Sony should just leave the console business because they obviously have no clue what they're doing.

all we know is that Nintendo has said in every single pertinent interview that the machine will be less powerful than it's two competitors, and that the machine will be the smallest. And yet, every thread talks about how it will be comparable or better than the Xbox...much less comparable to the PS3? So...do people get that they're going for something different here or is there a not so secret inferiority complex going on?

Also, as far as efficiency, Nintendo are excellent engineers. I don't think the heat output or casing for anything resembling a pc architecture should be used as a major comparison.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Given Nintendo's stingy nature, do you seriously think they'd accept a DVD drive that screws up their hardware overall?

Obviously not. That's why I'm asking in the first place. It's un-Nintendo and therefore a mystery. Yeesh.

The Mac Mini uses a slot loading disc drive, and that's the cheapest Mac you can buy.

1) Are you positive it takes 8cm discs without destroying them, like other drives? (Quick perusal of apple.com doesn't reveal that particular bit of information.)

2) The cheapest Apple is still expensive, compared to Nintendo.

 

[imastalker co.]

all we know is that Nintendo has said in every single pertinent interview that the machine will be less powerful than it's two competitors,

i've read interviews where Iwata has said other wise. what do you say about that? gonna bust out kaplans retracted quote again?

im on the verge of tapping out here. having said that, wait til you see the games before jumping to conclusions so quickly. im sure you'll be suprised.

 

[soundwave05]

Yup, Mac Mini accepts 8 cm discs.

I really don't think its rocket science ... it probably only requires a few slight modifications to a regular DVD slot drive.

 

[papercut]

just puttin this out there,

the pentium M chips at a 1.7 supposively run at a comparable speed of the pentium 4 3 ghz processors.

the video card in my laptop, the ati firegl v5000, is 128, but has run close to 512 cards in benchmarks.

manufacturers are cutting heat out which makes things: faster and smaller.

i really dont think that the rev is gonna be super powerful, but dont think that just cause its small it wont be as powerful. modern laptops are proof that size doesn't matter. unless your comparing penis's, in which case, it does.

consoles can't really be compared with laptops. developers can take full advantage of a console's power without having to worry about lowest common denominators. that's why your 128MB card works almost as well as the 512MB cards...few games are programmed to use up that much memory. or something like that.

and a top of the line desktop (which is the form factor sony and ms are using) will always outperform a normal sized top of the line laptop. you cant cut out that much heat without reducing power.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

i've read interviews where Iwata has said other wise. what do you say about that? gonna bust out kaplans retracted quote again?

im on the verge of tapping out here. having said that, wait til you see the games before jumping to conclusions so quickly.

where?

I think the games will look great. I think this whole power trip issue / graphics whorism tangent is retarded. It's not even close to my major concerns about where Nintendo is headed. I'm still hoping for a real revolution as far as they're concerned. I just think there's a wierd acceptance, then fanboyish damage control going on about the issue.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Yup, Mac Mini accepts 8 cm discs.

Well there's a second unit out there that'd use this drive. Still not the absolutely banal drive of the GC...

I really don't think its rocket science ... it probably only requires a few slight modifications to a regular DVD slot drive.

Most slot loading drives destroy 8cm discs, and sometimes full sized discs. I don't think it's just a "few modifications", but I'm sure it's going to work, Nintendo's products always have a very high build quality. That isn't in question here. I just want to know how much and how, exactly.

 

[Spike]

all we know is that Nintendo has said in every single pertinent interview that the machine will be less powerful than it's two competitors, and that the machine will be the smallest.

From what I'm looking at, people are talking about graphics being less powerful. Yet, Iwata did state that the graphics would be on the same level of the competition.

As far as the main processor for the "system" goes, then that could be "less powerful" if it isn't a dual-core processor.

The thing is that we don't even have a single goddam spec, yet the fanbots are out in full force proclaiming that it's less or more powerful.

You know, I've especially come to dislike the Sony fanbots particularly these last few weeks. We know that the videos make the system seem like the second coming of christ. But, until we actually see someone playing an actual game, with a controller in hand, can't we hold off on our judgements? Again, the only system that can be talked about, in terms of actual honest-to-goodness games is the X360.

 

[soundwave05]

where?

I think the games will look great. I think this whole power trip issue / graphics whorism tangent is retarded. It's not even close to my major concerns about where Nintendo is headed. I'm still hoping for a real revolution as far as they're concerned. I just think there's a wierd acceptance, then fanboyish damage control going on about the issue.

Agreed 100%.

Actually some Nintendo fans here some to be out of touch with what Nintendo is trying to do.

Who cares about the PS3/XBox 360? Those are going to be good machines too, Revolution is going to be cool in its own way, lets accept it ... screw it, *embrace* it, man.

The truth really is the only reason a lot of people want a X360/PS3 level chipset is so they can brag about it on internet message boards, never mind the reality that Nintendo (and many third parties) will never even come close to using that much horsepower due to simple economics. Some people are so insecure and suffering from so much Sony-envy that they can't really see the beauty of what Nintendo is doing.

I'd rather discuss what GPU solutions ATi have now and how well those might function in a 480p rendering environment. The Rev just needs a decent graphics solution ... hell, even the XBox, which is an ancient piece of tech can run a pretty sweet looking game of DOOM 3.

Does DOOM 3 look as good as the PC version? No, but a lot of average joes wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and it still looks *very* good on the XBox. I think that's what Nintendo is shooting for, but there just won't be be as much of a gap between the XBox/current PCs and Rev/PS3-X360 ... so it'll be even harder to tell the difference.

 

[God's Hand]

Revolution's specs do not compare to 360's. But you can bet the games will look just as good.

 

[soundwave05]

Revolution's specs do not compare to 360's. But you can bet the games will look just as good.

Well the people obsessed with comparing screen shots and what not ... they'll be able to tell the difference I think. The average consumer who doesn't know what anti-aliasing or bump mapping is, probably will not.

If the system can run a good version of the Unreal 3 engine at 480p and you're still going to say that's not good enough because it doesn't exactly match the PS3/XBox 360, you're a lost cause for Nintendo anyway.

 

[drohne]

uh, maybe people want competitive hardware from nintendo so that new zeldas and metroids can continue to be among the best-produced games of their time. going from metal gear or halo to zelda will, from now on, involve certain objective steps down. if i was a big nintendo fan, i'd be unhappy about that. people have enjoyed what new technology brings to games for a long time, and you can't expect everyone to get on board when nintendo decides that technology doesn't matter.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

The way things are going, I'm almost half expecting the Revolution to be a glorified emulation machine that plays everything at half speed.

 

[imastalker co.]

you can't expect everyone to get on board when nintendo decides that technology doesn't matter.

"sie sagten nie, daß sie gerade sagten, daß Graphiken nicht genug mehr sind."

"δεν είπαν ποτέ ότι ακριβώς είπαν ότι η γραφική παράσταση δεν είναι αρκετές άλλο."

"ils n'ont jamais dit qu'ils ont juste dit que les graphiques ne sont plus assez."

"zij zeiden nooit dat zij enkel die grafiek aren't genoeg meer zeiden."

"non hanno detto mai che hanno detto appena che i grafici non saranno abbastanza più."

"они никогда не говорили что они как раз сказали что графики не достаточно больше."

"they never said that. they just said that graphics aren't enough anymore. they feel that graphics are only the price of admission next gen."

hopefully this time, everyone will get it through their heads that they've misunderstood Nintendo's stance on horsepower.

 

[soundwave05]

uh, maybe people want competitive hardware from nintendo so that the new zeldas and metroids can be among the best-produced games of their time. going from metal gear or halo to zelda will, from now on, involve certain objective steps down. if i was a big nintendo fan, i'd be unhappy about that. people have enjoyed what new technology brings to games for a long time, and you can't expect everyone to get on board when nintendo decides that technology doesn't matter.

Would you really be that upset if the Revolution could maybe do this:

Just at 480p with some decent anti-aliasing and maybe a few sacrifices to background details here and there?

If that's not good enough for you, I think you're really asking for way too much out what likely is going to be a $200 piece of tech with a more expensive controller.

 

[GitarooMan]

uh, maybe people want competitive hardware from nintendo so that the new zeldas and metroids can be among the best-produced games of their time. going from metal gear or halo to zelda will, from now on, involve certain objective steps down. if i was a big nintendo fan, i'd be unhappy about that. people have enjoyed what new technology brings to games for a long time, and you can't expect everyone to get on board when nintendo decides that technology doesn't matter.

This is the point I've been trying to make for a while. For some visual and graphics tech doesn't matter, and that's fine. But for others, it's a potential dissapointment. For those who say the difference between 480p/720p isn't significant, why then is HDTV being pushed so hard by TV stations and by TV manufacturers? The difference between a DVD at 480p and a broadcast in 720p or 1080i is very significant.