• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

New Speech from Reggie

----

Banned
People aren't looking for new innovative games. That's just the state of the market today. The meat and potatoes games are going to continue to sell best.

This is the main problem I have with Nintendo today. They're about trying to tell people what games they should want to play rather than reflecting and making the games that people already know they want to play. Gamers have already primarily made up their minds about what type of gameplay experiences they like and aside from the extremely rare case only small deviations from these genres is welcome by gamers.

Who said PSP games are always going to be resticted to the PSP? It makes sense to me to only play Gameboy and PSP games on the handheld because the games don't have a high enough resolution to be played on a television screen. Gameboy and PSP games will look significantly worse on a TV screen because the resolution of the games have to be blown up. I think Sony would eventually make PSP games and movies playable on a home console.

In any case as you point out there already is a gameboy player and gameboy players for all of Nintendo's home consoles have always been very successful. I'm not saying that people will play portable games at home once the PSP comes out, I'm saying they already primarily do. It makes sense. How much time do people spend traveling compared to in a stationary position. Games are addictive even if you were playing a game on your commute home you're not going to just shut it off and not touch it and wait until the next time you have to travel. People get addicted and continue playing regardless of where they are. But where people usually end up is at a stationary destination. How much time do people spend mobile in a train or plane compared to in a stationary position at home, on campus, in a cafe? Very little.

People already don't play GBA games for just 5 minutes. Handheld gamers already do want long game playing experiences. Very few people are going to be willing to spend $50 for a game that is only intended to be played for 5 minutes at a time. Cellphone/PDA games get away with it right now because those games are either free or $2-$5. When you're talking about $50 UMD discs and giant memroy carts that type of simple quick cellphone/PDA experience becomes unacceptable to the consumer.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Hmm, you've introduced new points which I'm not going to address here lest this thread mutate out of all proportion. But suffice to say, I do believe the mechanic should be different for handheld games than home games. Into the future, the difference will be even more defined. Home machines and handheld machines will become quite unique to one another..up until now, handhelds haven't really offered anything that couldn't be technically done at home, but for example, DS is offering something that would be very difficult to replicate at home, and going forward, home systems will offer functionality that will be difficult to duplicate in a handheld. My only hope is that the evolution of the handheld will meet the requirements of "on-the-go" gameplay.

Oh, and I have regularly found myself playing my GBA in very short bursts..much shorter than even five minutes. Only when the game allows for it..but the ones that do, imo, are perfectly suited to the way I play when not at home. Playing in interrupted bursts of a few minutes probably isn't uncommon, I wouldn't think.

The ultimate answer for handhelds with games that could be played in a home environment is to provide the means which allow you to play with a home setup (like GBPlayer etc.). I think we can both agree on that. The ultimate would be to allow you to seamlessly continue a game experience from home to "on-the-go". But like I said, I think what's possible at home and what's possible on the go will very probably diverge sharply going forward, and if that is the case, games for each should play to specific strengths of the formats and the environments in which their hardware is used. Maybe you could have one version of a game for play at home taking advantage of all its specific technologies, and one version for your handheld that let you continue to play in that universe in a different way. But that raises questions, like, should you pay seperately for both? etc.

(BTW, GBA games look quite good when filtered through a GB Player. The GB Player uses filtering and such so that things don't look too blown up).
 

AniHawk

Member
This is the main problem I have with Nintendo today. They're about trying to tell people what games they should want to play rather than reflecting and making the games that people already know they want to play

What Nintendo is trying to do is find the new Tetris, Pokemon, Mario 64, etc. They need the game which people will buy the system for, and make Nintendo a household name (yet) again.

If Nintendo catered to what people want, or what they think they want, Nintendo would be enjoying very short term success with whatever GTAIII clone they could get out. They've been trying to introduce new styles of gameplay for ages (hell, connectivity began with the N64 and GBC). It's like what Sega was trying to do on the Dreamcast (and Saturn). Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Seaman, Jet Grind Radio- they wanted to find the next big thing, and we got several really fun games out of their efforts.

Why the fuck is that such a BAD thing?

EVEN THOUGH the DS may fail, and Nintendo can't find their new Tetris- if we get new, fun games which have never been tried before, wouldn't that be worth it?

Sometimes I think Nintendo's doing this way too early. While this may not be the right road to walk down yet, it definitely will be in 10-15 years, or whenever we start to max out hardware capabilites.
 

wazoo

Member
AniHawk said:
What Nintendo is trying to do is find the new Tetris, Pokemon, Mario 64, etc. They need the game which people will buy the system for, and make Nintendo a household name (yet) again.

If Nintendo catered to what people want, or what they think they want, Nintendo would be enjoying very short term success with whatever GTAIII clone they could get out.

Yes, it is very easy to say that GTA3 was the thing people wanted to play afterwards (same thing with Pokemon, which was doomed to fail before its surprising success). But before its launch, looking at the previous opus in the series, will all its bad press (except in EDGE for certain reasons), it was not easy for DMA to get the job done. As for GTA, the only thing Nintendo failed is to let DMA slip after its N64 fiasco (relatively to its previous Lemmings glory).

Why the fuck is that such a BAD thing?

The problem with gamers is that they do not know what they would like to play, except sequels to what they already have played.
 

Ranger X

Member
AniHawk said:
What Nintendo is trying to do is find the new Tetris, Pokemon, Mario 64, etc. They need the game which people will buy the system for, and make Nintendo a household name (yet) again.

If Nintendo catered to what people want, or what they think they want, Nintendo would be enjoying very short term success with whatever GTAIII clone they could get out. They've been trying to introduce new styles of gameplay for ages (hell, connectivity began with the N64 and GBC). It's like what Sega was trying to do on the Dreamcast (and Saturn). Crazy Taxi, Samba de Amigo, Seaman, Jet Grind Radio- they wanted to find the next big thing, and we got several really fun games out of their efforts.

Why the fuck is that such a BAD thing?

EVEN THOUGH the DS may fail, and Nintendo can't find their new Tetris- if we get new, fun games which have never been tried before, wouldn't that be worth it?

Sometimes I think Nintendo's doing this way too early. While this may not be the right road to walk down yet, it definitely will be in 10-15 years, or whenever we start to max out hardware capabilites.


IAWYP. I think Nintendo may be a forseeing the futur of gaming in a pretty good way but maybe it's not the right time to start to push this new way of thinking. They may just end-up like Sega --- opening every avenue for bigger dudes and get killed.
 
Duckhuntdog said:
Ah, the envy of those who are stuck with Peter Moore and Kaz as their mouthpieaces is thick in this thread.

This guy is exactly like Moore, except he's just on Nintendo side. As for Kaz, yah he's boring but he doesn't really need to boost his company.
 

P90

Member
SolidSnakex said:
This guy is exactly like Moore, except he's just on Nintendo side. As for Kaz, yah he's boring but he doesn't really need to boost his company.

Moore helped kill Sega. Reggie hasn't killed anything yet. (He hasn't done anything market-wise yet, but he is quite entertainingly quotable. A gaming Charles Barkley at this point). Moore is just a jerk. Ed Fries or J Allard are much better than Moore.

Kaz? Well Kaz needs to improve his company's asset to debt ratio. Sony is in less than good financial shape. The PS2 owns in numbers, but the company as a whole has problems.
 

P90

Member
kpop100 said:
I didn't say they would lose the market, they will be leading in handheld sales for a while I'm sure...mainly because of the GBA not the DS

If you think for a sec that the PSP will go the way of the Game Gear, Turbo Express, Nomad, etc..etc.. you will be in for a surprise.

Yes, GBA will rule. I'm not sure about the DS at this point. The stylus may be just a gimmick. If the DS is Palm OS compatible or will have planner type capabilities, I'm in. Having GB BC is a major good thing, though.

No, the PSP will be a handheld Betamax. The similarities are evident: late to market, increased resolution over competitor, proprietary movie media, the list goes on...
 
P90 said:
Moore helped kill Sega. Reggie hasn't killed anything yet. (He hasn't done anything market-wise yet, but he is quite entertainingly quotable. A gaming Charles Barkley at this point). Moore is just a jerk. Ed Fries or J Allard are much better than Moore.

Kaz? Well Kaz needs to improve his company's asset to debt ratio. Sony is in less than good financial shape. The PS2 owns in numbers, but the company as a whole has problems.

It was Bernie Stolar that sent Sega on a nose dive, there was nothing Moore could do other than sit back and try to paint pretty pictures for fans in the face of an imminent crash.

Right now Reggie's nothing more than a mouth piece for Nintendo to hype fans by trying to imitate old school Sega campaigns and doing a really bad job at it.
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
SolidSnakex said:
Right now Reggie's nothing more than a mouth piece for Nintendo to hype fans by trying to imitate old school Sega campaigns and doing a really bad job at it.
Judging from the reactions -- including, but not limited to, the gigantic messageboard followings, photoshops, journo articles about him, and the word "Reggieloution" -- I'd say he's actually doing a really good job.
 
Internet hype and followings mean nothing to the actual picture though, if that was the case the DC would've crushed and spat on the PS2.
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
SolidSnakex said:
Internet hype and followings mean nothing to the actual picture though, if that was the case the DC would've crushed and spat on the PS2.
Well, of course. But your original statement was: "Right now Reggie's nothing more than a mouth piece for Nintendo to hype fans by trying to imitate old school Sega campaigns and doing a really bad job at it," and I think he's actually doing a bang-up job at hyping up fans. Sure, he's preaching to the choir, but you can't deny he's doing it in a fantastically successful manner.
 

MaddenNFL64

Member
Good stuff Fils-Aime :).

Much more cordial than the E3 speech. Wasn't a big fan of the "Kick ass & take names" rhetoric. I did enjoy the photoshop threads that inspired though :D.
 

GDGF

Soothsayer
SolidSnakex said:
Internet hype and followings mean nothing to the actual picture though, if that was the case the DC would've crushed and spat on the PS2.

Indeed, but I've seen quite a few print mentions about him too, and since the guy's job is in marketing and all, and, well, this new Nintendo attitude he's marketing seems to be going over well with the people he's
marketing
to, well...I guess that means he's doing a great job.

He's a corporate evangelist. Nintendo needed one of these guys (in the grand tradition of guys like Steve Jobs...there goes another Apple analogy)

Right guy, right time.
 
Great article. The absence of a link to the video is saddening (as is the lack of Reggie bulldog expression)

I have a ipaq 5550 and you guys are seriously underwriting the fun/value of the stylus. Even if all Nintendo introduces is a game/card/mem thing that allows you to use the SP like a pda in parts, it will have a winner on its hard. The innane fun of being able to scribble on your screen and make other people gawk is quick good. Kids will be scribbly / drawing in it for fun.

The fact that those wack a tablets from the 80s could sell is indicative of this element of fun.
 

Vieo

Member
IAWYP. I think Nintendo may be a forseeing the futur of gaming in a pretty good way but maybe it's not the right time to start to push this new way of thinking. They may just end-up like Sega --- opening every avenue for bigger dudes and get killed.

If they hold off on trying to create something new now, they might not be around in the future to create something new.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
Internet hype and followings mean nothing to the actual picture though, if that was the case the DC would've crushed and spat on the PS2.
And online console gaming might reach past 7% of the market. ;)
 

heidern

Junior Member
"Internet hype and followings mean nothing to the actual picture though, if that was the case the DC would've crushed and spat on the PS2."

Perhaps internet hype isn't important in and of itself, but Reggie is helping to not only hype Nintendo, but give them a different image. What fans think may not be important, but there is a good chance he is helping to shape the opinion of the media. If he can do that successfully, get the media to take Nintendo seriously, then that would mean a hell of a lot.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
Yep time to start taking shots at online gaming again after this recent bit of info. :)
Well, I thought the thread was due for a little pro-Nintendo damage control... y'know, to balance things out. ;)
 
jarrod said:
Well, I thought the thread was due for a little pro-Nintendo damage control... y'know, to balance things out. ;)

Well since we're talking about online gaming, do you still think there's a good chance Nintendo's going to go online next gen? Seems like they have the same position on online gaming with the DS that they do with the GC.
 

Deg

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
Well since we're talking about online gaming, do you still think there's a good chance Nintendo's going to go online next gen? Seems like they have the same position on online gaming with the DS that they do with the GC.

Yeah. Someone in a UK developer said that they are blocking online through hardware. Yesterday i made a fuss about it but i guess its false as it would be silly including the tech i think.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
Well since we're talking about online gaming, do you still think there's a good chance Nintendo's going to go online next gen? Seems like they have the same position on online gaming with the DS that they do with the GC.
I dunno really, Revolution is about 2 years away still so it's somewhat early to say. I'm sure they're at least investigating it with R&D though.

Their stance on online gaming hasn't really changed. They'll provide the tools/hardware for it but their own games won't go online until they can find an attractive business model that's free for consumers. They're not interested in a pay service or simply eating costs... I think P2P on DS might happen with 2nd gen software though, that seems like a vaible option. Mario Kart DS would be a good canidate (as MK Advance was their headlining product for mobileGB).
 
Deg said:
Yeah. Someone in a UK developer said that they are blocking online through hardware. Yesterday i made a fuss about it but i guess its false as it would be silly including the tech i think.

I don't know if they're blocking it, their stance on it seems ot be exactly the same despite what fans were hoping for after their E3 conference. Their stance is still "Ok we'll give you the stuff to go online, we just aren't going to do it". I think we all know how that worked out for them with the GC.
 

AniHawk

Member
SolidSnakex said:
I don't know if they're blocking it, their stance on it seems ot be exactly the same despite what fans were hoping for after their E3 conference. Their stance is still "Ok we'll give you the stuff to go online, we just aren't going to do it". I think we all know how that worked out for them with the GC.

Yeah. That's like saying the SNES failed because it had no SNES CD add-on in 1993.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
I don't know if they're blocking it, their stance on it seems ot be exactly the same despite what fans were hoping for after their E3 conference. Their stance is still "Ok we'll give you the stuff to go online, we just aren't going to do it". I think we all know how that worked out for them with the GC.
Well, Nintendo sites the lack of broadband penetration as big reason for not employing online for GameCube... which shouldn't be a problem with DS. Give DS some time, it took XBox/DC a full year and PS2 almost 2 years to get 1st party online support....
 
jarrod, the difference is that Sony,Sega or MS commited from the start that they were going online. They never made it a mystery, that's why you had companies like Neversoft making THPS online with 3rd party network adapters on the PS2. Companies had no doubt that Sony, Sega or MS would be going online for their systems. With the DS, Nintendo once again seems like a no go on the feature, at least for now. That could always change down the line ofcourse.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
jarrod, the difference is that Sony,Sega or MS commited from the start that they were going online. They never made it a mystery, that's why you had companies like Neversoft making THPS online with 3rd party network adapters on the PS2. Companies had no doubt that Sony, Sega or MS would be going online for their systems. With the DS, Nintendo once again seems like a no go on the feature, at least for now. That could always change down the line ofcourse.
Er, Nintendo promoted online gaming as one of the key features to DS... just because they haven't announced any specific online games before launch doesn't mean they're taking a "no go" stance... in fact it seems exactly like Sony, Sega and Microsoft, all of whom had nothing specific pre launch but singled out online gaming as a key feature in their platforms for the future. If nothing's changed in year you might have a point but right now you're simply going off assumtions.
 

Ranger X

Member
Actually i heard that Nintendo didn't give any clue to any develloper as to "how to devellop" for using the modem and everything. They didn't put any standard or demand.
Some develloper would want to make online games for Gamecube but Nintendo is not helping them at all, they don't give tool, working standard etc, they give a big fat nothing.

So it end up like this: Nintendo does not support the modem, nobody else does then nobody will.
 
"n fact it seems exactly like Sony, Sega and Microsoft, all of whom had nothing specific pre launch but singled out online gaming as a key feature in their platforms for the future."

How's it exactly like thos 3? All 3 of them said they would be going online. It wasn't a feature they were going to have with their systems, they 100% would be going online. Where has Nintendo said they'll be going online? With those 3 companies developers had no doubt about what their stance is on online gaming. With Nintendo no one really knows except every chance they get they talk about how it's not worth it. I'd say those are 2 completely different stances on this issue.
 

AniHawk

Member
Wyzdom said:
Actually i heard that Nintendo didn't give any clue to any develloper as to "how to devellop" for using the modem and everything. They didn't put any standard or demand.
Some develloper would want to make online games for Gamecube but Nintendo is not helping them at all, they don't give tool, working standard etc, they give a big fat nothing.

So it end up like this: Nintendo does not support the modem, nobody else does then nobody will.

...Uh, what?
 

jarrod

Banned
Wyzdom said:
Actually i heard that Nintendo didn't give any clue to any develloper as to "how to devellop" for using the modem and everything. They didn't put any standard or demand.
Some develloper would want to make online games for Gamecube but Nintendo is not helping them at all, they don't give tool, working standard etc, they give a big fat nothing.

So it end up like this: Nintendo does not support the modem, nobody else does then nobody will.
Er, Nintendo had a big PR production over including GameSpy in their GameCube SDKs two years ago (and Nintendo officials mentioned royalty cuts for online enabled games even)... I believe SNAP is also included. If a tiny Japanese developer like ChunSoft can figure things out then anyone should be capable.
 

jarrod

Banned
SolidSnakex said:
"n fact it seems exactly like Sony, Sega and Microsoft, all of whom had nothing specific pre launch but singled out online gaming as a key feature in their platforms for the future."

How's it exactly like thos 3? All 3 of them said they would be going online. It wasn't a feature they were going to have with their systems, they 100% would be going online. Where has Nintendo said they'll be going online? With those 3 companies developers had no doubt about what their stance is on online gaming. With Nintendo no one really knows except every chance they get they talk about how it's not worth it. I'd say those are 2 completely different stances on this issue.
Actually, Sony hadn't said a word about "going online" for games prelaunch... their online ambitions then were more about Kaz's content distribution fantasies. In fact Sony's online PR didn't start dribbling out until Sega (and later MS in the west) made it an issue with consumers.

Also, Nintendo went on about online with DS at E3 (specifically mentioning playing opponents in other timezones via hotspots). They've made it a key issue with the hardware, and Nintendo has a history of supporting included hardware features.

Though on the other hand, has Sony made any confirmations about supporting online play with PSP? Should I come to the same conclusion and assume neither platform will be getting online 1st party support?
 
jarrod said:
Though on the other hand, has Sony made any confirmations about supporting online play with PSP? Should I come to the same conclusion and assume neither platform will be getting online 1st party support?

What would you be basing those conclusions on? How they've gave full online support to the PS2? :p
 

Tellaerin

Member
P90 said:
No, the PSP will be a handheld Betamax. The similarities are evident: late to market, increased resolution over competitor, proprietary movie media, the list goes on...

The 'similarities' are specious. The biggest flaw in your analogy is that Beta and VHS were identical in terms of functionality. The only real differences were fidelity and price. Consumers at the time, most of which couldn't appreciate the difference in IQ or found it negligible compared to the price difference, opted for the less-expensive format.

For the Beta/VHS analogy to work, the DS would have to be a cheaper, less graphically-capable PSP, which obviously isn't the case. Unlike Beta and VHS, the differences between the PSP and the DS extend to the type of content offered for each machine. Games for each will be tailored to the strengths of the hardware it's developed for. DS games will feature novel gameplay that takes advantage of alternate input devices like the touchscreen or voice recognition, while the PSP offers the processing power necessary to handle more complex 'traditional' videogames, as well as secondary media-playback functions as a byproduct of its game-playing capabilities. And yes, consumers nowadays are tech-savvy enough to understand the differences between the two. :)
 

Ranger X

Member
Well, seems like it's not enough because it's the exact reason a couple of insiders i know gave me. And it's the same reason why there's some GC games out there that don't have an online mode when they should have.

If they lie (wich would be surprising to me), it's a money making reason related to "why take the money to implement a feature that is not supported and as a matter of fact will not really help to boost our sales".


Any of those reasons leads us where we are with our GCs: almost no online games.
 
Top Bottom