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New York City property tax system favors the rich, hits lower classes harder

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GK86

Homeland Security Fail
Link.

On Autumn Ave. in working class Cypress Hills sits a modest $462,000 brick two-family home with a postage-stamp sized front yard and a warning sign, “These Premises Protected by Video Surveillance.”

The owner pays $6,919 in property taxes.

Six miles away on Fourth St. on one of upscale Park Slope’s most exclusive blocks sits an impressive $2.5 million four-story brownstone with a lush backyard garden, four bedrooms and three baths.

The owner of that lovely home pays $6,209 in property taxes — $710 less than his fellow Brooklynite, whose plot sits in one of the city’s poorest zip codes.


“We just got our tax bill, and it went way up. We were in shock,” said Jhora Akther, daughter of the Autumn Ave. homeowner. “To have to pay this much, it’s not fair.”

When it comes to property taxes, New York City homeowners live in an upside-down “Alice In Wonderland” world — a system that often favors the rich and punishes lower- and middle-income property owners, a Daily News investigation has found.

Because of the bizarre way the city taxes residential property, owners in upscale gentrified New York neighborhoods like Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights and the upper East Side often wind up paying less than owners in hardscrabble zip codes like East New York and Canarsie in Brooklyn, South Jamaica in Queens and Mott Haven in the Bronx.

Property taxes collected under this unequal system are the city’s biggest single source of money, accounting for 40% of all revenue and totaling $18.7 billion this year.

By law, the city is supposed to treat everyone the same, assessing taxes based on what the Finance Department determines as the “estimated market value" of a property and then applying a uniform 6% assessment ratio to that number.

Records show it doesn’t happen that way.


At the request of The News, the city’s Independent Budget Office performed an analysis of tens of thousands of property tax records citywide and found “wide disparities" in how the Finance Department nails down its version of “market value.”

The budget office review of 135 neighborhoods for fiscal 2014 found the city overvalues residential property in 28 of the poorest neighborhoods while undervaluing residences in upscale zip codes.

Take East New York/Cypress Hills, where 51% of residents received some form of public assistance in 2010 and crime has jumped 14% since 2011.

The median sale price for residential properties there is $249,000, but the Finance Department put the median estimated value there at $394,000, the budget office found.

Ditto with the home on Autumn Ave., which was sold in February for $462,000 but was tagged by the city in January with a market value of $621,000, records show.

The net effect is that homeowners with inflated market value estimates pay more in annual property taxes since their bill is based on the value assigned to their home by the city.

Meanwhile, the city appears to undervalue homes in many upscale and middle-class neighborhoods, finding “estimated market values” that are less than actual sales prices.

This is true in the West Village and the Upper East Side, where property values never seem to diminish, as well as gentrifying neighborhoods like Fort Greene, DUMBO, East Williamsburg and Greenpoint in Brooklyn, the study found.

George Sweeting of the budget office thinks the incorrect values result from the fact that the city can’t keep up with the fast-moving increase in values, so the bar remains artificially low when the city calculates taxes owed in these zip codes.

In Park Slope, the city’s median estimated market value rang in at $1.29 million, but the actual median sales price for that neighborhood was $1.42 million.

The same pattern emerged with the Park Slope brownstone on Fourth St.: The city estimated its market value was $1.9 million in January — well below the $2.5 million it sold for that same month, records show.

“There are wide disparities between neighborhoods in the extent and direction of the differences,” Sweeting said.

A former Finance Department staffer who reviewed the data told The News, “The very first thing in any system is you have to get the market value right. If you can’t get the market value right, the rest of the assessment system is compromised.”

Finance Department spokesman Owen Stone disagreed with the budget office findings, saying data suggest that city assessors get it right more often than not.

“We’re pretty close...in almost every neighborhood,“ he said. “I’m sure you’re going to find some disparities. When you take a look at the whole, even by neighborhood, even by borough, we’re pretty close to the target ratio. We have good values."

This taxation inequality is aggravated by another phenomenon that occurs because the city caps the amount residential property taxes can rise each year.

The cap was meant to prevent sticker shock for homeowners, but it winds up benefitting high-end latte neighborhoods at the expense of working class bodega nabes, experts say.

With homes, assessment increases that result from market conditions cannot exceed 6% in a single year and 20% over five years, regardless of how fast the market value is growing.

This creates a crazy scenario where a $462,000 two-family home on E. 86th St. that sits next to a truck depot in Canarsie pays $7,582 — nearly $500 more than the owner of a newly renovated $2 million brownstone on Lincoln Place a block from Prospect Park in Park Slope.

“Within the borough, it’s hard to explain how you can have these wild variations,” said a former Finance employee who spoke to The News on the condition of anonymity.

A neighborhood like Canarsie has not experienced consistently rising property values, even during the housing runup of 2005-2008.

Property values there have remained steady, so homeowners each year face the full 6% assessment ratio that’s applied to whatever the city deems the “estimated market rate.”

That’s true throughout neighborhoods in south Queens like Jamaica and Ozone Park, all of the South and Central Bronx, and working class Brooklyn locales like Flatlands and Mill Basin.

“Neighborhoods that aren’t experiencing a lot of appreciation, they can move toward the target 6% ratio and just stay there,” Sweeting said. “So the effective tax winds up being higher in more stable neighborhoods."

But neighborhoods like DUMBO, Park Slope and Fort Greene in Brooklyn, both the upper East and West Sides in Manhattan, and Long Island City in Queens experience a consistent rise in sales - thus triggering the cap.

As a result, they wind up taxed far below the 6% ratio their neighbors in the hinterlands endure. At times, they’re taxed at a ratio as low as 1%, records show.

Carol Kellerman of the Citizens Budget Commission — a longtime critic of the city’s assessment system — says the tax cap system winds up benefiting the wealthy, hurting the poor and leaving taxpayers holding the bag.

“The goal is to smooth out for people the amount of the hit they take, but it’s not based on need. So no matter what your income level is, even if you could afford to pay that tax, you don’t have to pay it,” Kellerman said. “We’re just giving it away. We’ll never get to recapture that amount.”

Stone of the Finance Department agreed that “caps hold down assessed values in areas where market values are rising rapidly,” but said his agency is just following the rules.

“That’s what they’re designed to do,” he said. “And they’re mandated by state law.”


This home in Park Slope has a value of $2.5 million, but the owners pay $6,209 in property taxes.
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This home in Park Slope has a value of $462G and the owners pay $6,919 in property taxes.
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entremet

Member
Wow decent reporting by The Daily News?!

That's pretty crazy, but not surprising considering how rich neighborhoods have always gotten the most benefits.

And man at those prices. It's a reason, I'll never own living here.
 
the explanation though makes sense. if a home one year is valued at 200k, and then gets gentrified, to like 600k, of course they're gonna undervalue it.

although how they overvalued the other homes doesn't make snse
 

ymoc

Member
2,5M $ for that wall of bricks???
When I think 2,5 million $ I think goddamn castles and giant victorian mansions.
But then again, I'm not from New York : )
 

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
According to our esteemed billionaire mayor, rich folks in NYC have it tough:

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) – Despite stark economic inequality in New York City, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it would be a “godsend” if every billionaire in the world moved to the Big Apple.

Bloomberg spoke Friday on his weekly radio show about new U.S. Census figures on the city’s high income gap and increased poverty rate.

He said the problem with the income gap was not at the low-end, but was actually the result of the city’s ability to attract “a lot of the very wealthy” from around the globe.

“It gives you this income inequality measure, but if we could get every billionaire in the world to move here, that would be a godsend,” he said.

He said New Yorkers would actually benefit if more high-income earners moved to the city.

“They are the ones who pay a lot of the taxes. They are the ones who spend a lot money in the stores and the restaurants and create a big chunk of our economy,” Bloomberg said. ”And we take the tax revenues from those people to help people throughout the entire rest of the spectrum.”

I will be so happy when Bloomberg gets his ass out of City Hall at the end of the year.
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
2,5M $ for that wall of bricks???
When I think 2,5 million $ I think goddamn castles and giant victorian mansions.
But then again, I'm not from New York : )

you never been inside one of those eh...

but either way, voting for De Blasio for shit like this.
 
It's amazing what Bloomberg has done with NYC.

And how each and every policy has a fog of ambiguity behind it, even though the effects are obvious to anyone with a brain.
 

kirblar

Member
Wow decent reporting by The Daily News?!

That's pretty crazy, but not surprising considering how rich neighborhoods have always gotten the most benefits.

And man at those prices. It's a reason, I'll never own living here.
This is basically the same problem (to a slightly lesser degree) that occurred in California when they started basing taxes only on value at the time of acquisition. It's terrible economics.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Wait a second. A policy in today's America favoring the rich?

I mean, who could have seen this coming?
 

Nikodemos

Member
It's NYC. I'm not surprised.
Thing is, the second house looks nicer. It has a bit of courtyard in front and what looks like a garage (though it seems unused with the greens in front of it; I've heard car ownership in NYC is a horrible experience).
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
He said New Yorkers would actually benefit if more high-income earners moved to the city.

“They are the ones who pay a lot of the taxes. They are the ones who spend a lot money in the stores and the restaurants and create a big chunk of our economy,” Bloomberg said. ”And we take the tax revenues from those people to help people throughout the entire rest of the spectrum.”

This idea is effectively trickle down economics and has been proven to be fallacious - and the fallacy is compounded by the kind of products New York Billionaires "make" which is the systematic torture of money and financial devices to wring profits where none should naturally occur.
 

LQX

Member
Dur! Most NYer's will tell you this city has transitioned to being mainly for tourists, the rich and well off. We have a damn Billionaire of dictator mayor that thinks taking train makes him one the working class.
 

Chinner

Banned
why punish the rich? they are successful in life because they change america for the better. they provide businesses and services for the normal person to use. its fair for them to pay less taxes, considering the benefit they've had on society and the fact that the working class have less valuable input on society.
 
why punish the rich? they are successful in life because they change america for the better. they provide businesses and services for the normal person to use. its fair for them to pay less taxes, considering the benefit they've had on society and the fact that the working class have less valuable input on society.
And here we go.
 

Josh7289

Member
why punish the rich? they are successful in life because they change america for the better. they provide businesses and services for the normal person to use. its fair for them to pay less taxes, considering the benefit they've had on society and the fact that the working class have less valuable input on society.

I know you're trolling, but to counter, I would say that most of the really rich get rich through a combination of luck (at the very least, by being born into a class where you're able to save up money, or by being born right into money) and exploitation of other people's cheap labor, or their trust, or the environment, or other externalities like that on their way up.
 

njean777

Member
why punish the rich? they are successful in life because they change america for the better. they provide businesses and services for the normal person to use. its fair for them to pay less taxes, considering the benefit they've had on society and the fact that the working class have less valuable input on society.

What? Yeah the middle class doesn't produce anything nor does the lower middle class. They don't do anything they are lazy and a bunch of beggars. Really dude, do not start this argument.

Edit- I feel I have been trolled.
 
I know you're trolling, but to counter, I would say that most of the really rich get rich through a combination of luck (at the very least, by being born into a class where you're able to save up money, or by being born right into money) and exploitation of other people's cheap labor, or their trust, or the environment, or other externalities like that on their way up.

this is so not true it's not even funny. take a look at all of the top billioinaires. besides the oil barons, every of the other ones there all worked hard to earn their money.

very ignorant statement too, considering how many millionaires there are in India who got there not from their own family's wealth, but because they worked for it.
 
What a second does this mean that the rich and powerful manipulate government to favor them above all else? I do not believe it...
 

Jimothy

Member
this is so not true it's not even funny. take a look at all of the top billioinaires. besides the oil barons, every of the other ones there all worked hard to earn their money.

very ignorant statement too, considering how many millionaires there are in India who got there not from their own family's wealth, but because they worked for it.
Bill Gates had rich parents who had business connections that allowed him access to capital. Mark Zuckerberg had rich parents who paid for expensive coding classes as a kid and sent him to Harvard. The Koch brothers inherited their father's company. I could probably go down the list of richest people and give you similar stories but that post would be like 50 paragraphs long. Point is it's much easier to become rich when your family is already rich in comparison to the rest of society. The myth of the self made man is just that.
 

entremet

Member
NYC is basically a microcosm of everything that's wrong with America. This is hardly surprising.

The dying of the middle class? Sure.


Bill Gates had rich parents who had business connections that allowed him access to capital. Mark Zuckerberg had rich parents who paid for expensive coding classes as a kid and sent him to Harvard. The Koch brothers inherited their father's company. I could probably go down the list of richest people and give you similar stories but that post would be like 50 paragraphs long. Point is it's much easier to become rich when your family is already rich in comparison to the rest of society. The myth of the self made man is just that.

Yep. America loves the self made man myth. It feeds our individualistic culture.
 

Josh7289

Member
this is so not true it's not even funny. take a look at all of the top billioinaires. besides the oil barons, every of the other ones there all worked hard to earn their money.

very ignorant statement too, considering how many millionaires there are in India who got there not from their own family's wealth, but because they worked for it.

Why are you talking about India when we're talking about the United States? I don't know anything about India, but it's a totally different country; the same rules don't apply.

Bill Gates had rich parents who had business connections that allowed him access to capital. Mark Zuckerberg had rich parents who paid for expensive coding classes as a kid and sent him to Harvard. The Koch brothers inherited their father's company. I could probably go down the list of richest people and give you similar stories but that post would be like 50 paragraphs long. Point is it's much easier to become rich when your family is already rich in comparison to the rest of society. The myth of the self made man is just that.

Exactly. Poor as dirt Joe from some backwater town in Appalachia doesn't stand a chance. No money, no education, and he wouldn't dare rally for a higher wage, because the next guy in line is ready to do his job, and to do it for less. The same thing is true for those born into poor families anywhere in this country. The odds are stacked against you.

Yep. America loves the self made man myth. It feeds our individualistic culture.

And it's a great myth for the richest classes to perpetuate. If they get the people to believe that success is based entirely on individual effort, then the poor and dumb will just conclude that they deserve their shitty situations and leave it at that.
 

goodcow

Member
Bill Gates had rich parents who had business connections that allowed him access to capital. Mark Zuckerberg had rich parents who paid for expensive coding classes as a kid and sent him to Harvard. The Koch brothers inherited their father's company. I could probably go down the list of richest people and give you similar stories but that post would be like 50 paragraphs long. Point is it's much easier to become rich when your family is already rich in comparison to the rest of society. The myth of the self made man is just that.

If I ever have children I'll leave them a small amount and donate the rest to cats or something.
 
Bill Gates had rich parents who had business connections that allowed him access to capital. Mark Zuckerberg had rich parents who paid for expensive coding classes as a kid and sent him to Harvard. The Koch brothers inherited their father's company. I could probably go down the list of richest people and give you similar stories but that post would be like 50 paragraphs long. Point is it's much easier to become rich when your family is already rich in comparison to the rest of society. The myth of the self made man is just that.

still does nothing to the statement that people that are rich are born into wealth.

was Bill Gates parents billionaires before they got to him?

Sure, Mark Zuckerberg went to Harvard, but being at Harvard had little to do with him finding facebook and becoming a billionaire that way. Now, what you say make sense. Being born into a rich family allows one more options. But it does not necessarily mean all the current billionaires are billionaires because they inherited all that money. saying that other ppl are rich because their parents are rich is just a pathetic cop-out. yes, bill gates and zuckerberg are self-made billionaires. they didn't inherit their money. they came up with a good idea, and went running with it. And they both worked their asses off to get there.

Why are you talking about India when we're talking about the United States? I don't know anything about India, but it's a totally different country; the same rules don't apply.



Exactly. Poor as dirt Joe from some backwater town in Appalachia doesn't stand a chance. No money, no education, and he wouldn't dare rally for a higher wage, because the next guy in line is ready to do his job, and to do it for less. The same thing is true for those born into poor families anywhere in this country. The odds are stacked against you.



And it's a great myth for the richest classes to perpetuate. If they get the people to believe that success is based entirely on individual effort, then the poor and dumb will just conclude that they deserve their shitty situations and leave it at that.

it is not a myth. My immigrant family came ot the US with $0 in our pockets. Now, we own 3 homes. My aunt came over as a refugee. Had no one to help her. Now she owns like what, i forgot, 8 homes?

We're not billionaires, but i would like to say we've made it. the whole myth "oh you need to be born into a wealthy home in order to be wealthy" is a cop-out pathetic excuse that allows ppl to lose all form of self-responsibility and say "oh i'm so poor because i was born poor".

Even if they were born into a rich family, where did you think thta family got rich from? it all had to start with someone in the past who was a self-made man.
 

Josh7289

Member
it is not a myth. My immigrant family came ot the US with $0 in our pockets. Now, we own 3 homes. My aunt came over as a refugee. Had no one to help her. Now she owns like what, i forgot, 8 homes?

We're not billionaires, but i would like to say we've made it.

Good for you, but your single anecdote doesn't change a thing for the rest of the country.
 

Jimothy

Member
There are exceptions to every rule. Doesn't change the fact that social mobility, both upward and downward, has been stagnant in the US since the 1970s. The rich have stayed rich and the poor have stayed poor.
 

entremet

Member
still does nothing to the statement that people that are rich are born into wealth.

was Bill Gates parents billionaires before they got to him?

Sure, Mark Zuckerberg went to Harvard, but being at Harvard had little to do with him finding facebook and becoming a billionaire that way. Now, what you say make sense. Being born into a rich family allows one more options. But it does not necessarily mean all the current billionaires are billionaires because they inherited all that money. saying that other ppl are rich because their parents are rich is just a pathetic cop-out. yes, bill gates and zuckerberg are self-made billionaires. they didn't inherit their money. they came up with a good idea, and went running with it. And they both worked their asses off to get there.



it is not a myth. My immigrant family came ot the US with $0 in our pockets. Now, we own 3 homes. My aunt came over as a refugee. Had no one to help her. Now she owns like what, i forgot, 8 homes?

We're not billionaires, but i would like to say we've made it. the whole myth "oh you need to be born into a wealthy home in order to be wealthy" is a cop-out pathetic excuse that allows ppl to lose all form of self-responsibility and say "oh i'm so poor because i was born poor".

Even if they were born into a rich family, where did you think thta family got rich from? it all had to start with someone in the past who was a self-made man.

What did your and family do to acquire their wealth?

Moreover, anecdotal evidence is not real evidence.

This is more studied results on income equality.

http://www.brookings.edu/about/proj...ence/2013-spring-permanent-inequality-panousi
 
Good for you, but your single anecdote doesn't change a thing for the rest of the country.

same goes for the opposite annecdotal

What did your and family do to acquire their wealth?

My aunt studied, went to college, got a job, and then saved her money to go into property investment.

My family, we all just worked together, stayed in one home, pooled our money, to buy the first home, sold it for profit to buy a bigger home, etc etc. No one in my family has a college degree or high school degree btw. this was all working minimum wage job.

What did your and family do to acquire their wealth?

Moreover, anecdotal evidence is not real evidence.

This is more studied results on income equality.

http://www.brookings.edu/about/proj...ence/2013-spring-permanent-inequality-panousi

i'm arguing against the idea that it is impossible. and that it is impossible to rise. my anecdotal alone proves otherwise.
 

entremet

Member
same goes for the opposite annecdotal



My aunt studied, went to college, got a job, and then saved her money to go into property investment.

My family, we all just worked together, stayed in one home, pooled our money, to buy the first home, sold it for profit to buy a bigger home, etc etc. No one in my family has a college degree or high school degree btw. this was all working minimum wage job.

That's what I figured. Immigrant families to have a higher sense of solidarity. I've seen this time and again.

The American Way of individualism tells parents to kick out their kids, with tons of loans and bad job prospects out of college, letting them fend for themselves in poverty. And that's the point, no of us are truly self made. We all were helped at one point or another. Helped doesn't mean handouts, it could mean familial solidarity and connections.
 

Josh7289

Member
same goes for the opposite annecdotal



My aunt studied, went to college, got a job, and then saved her money to go into property investment.

My family, we all just worked together, stayed in one home, pooled our money, to buy the first home, sold it for profit to buy a bigger home, etc etc. No one in my family has a college degree or high school degree btw. this was all working minimum wage job.

Your wealth then was dependent on increasing housing and real estate prices. You were lucky that that that was available for you to take advantage of.

i'm arguing against the idea that it is impossible. and that it is impossible to rise. my anecdotal alone proves otherwise.

And no, it's not always impossible. But sometimes a 0.0001% chance is as good as impossible.
 
Thing is, the second house looks nicer. It has a bit of courtyard in front and what looks like a garage (though it seems unused with the greens in front of it; I've heard car ownership in NYC is a horrible experience).

Maybe if you go by just those metrics but it definitely isn't at all. The first one has much nicer look and steps leading to it and it's all open because it's in that much better of a neighborhood. The other one is obviously in a much worse neighborhood since they need a huge fence to block themselves in. That accounts for the huge change in price.

The building looks ten times nicer in the first, maybe the second is a hair bigger but they're not even close in terms of looks.
 

entremet

Member
they are very luxurious inside...plus its the neighborhood, vibrant, tree lined, bars and restaurants, art galleries, boutiques, the park is a few blocks away etc.

Much of real estate values is location location location. You pay for the neighborhood in NYC, just like you would in a suburban locale.
 
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