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New York City property tax system favors the rich, hits lower classes harder

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N

nitewulf

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
was Bill Gates parents billionaires before they got to him?

Sure, Mark Zuckerberg went to Harvard, but being at Harvard had little to do with him finding facebook and becoming a billionaire that way. Now, what you say make sense. Being born into a rich family allows one more options. But it does not necessarily mean all the current billionaires are billionaires because they inherited all that money. saying that other ppl are rich because their parents are rich is just a pathetic cop-out. yes, bill gates and zuckerberg are self-made billionaires. they didn't inherit their money. they came up with a good idea, and went running with it. And they both worked their asses off to get there.
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its a lot more complicated than that. you should really read "Outliers".
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
entrement said:
That's what I figured. Immigrant families to have a higher sense of solidarity. I've seen this time and again.

The American Way of individualism tells parents to kick out their kids, with tons of loans and bad job prospects out of college, letting them fend for themselves in poverty. And that's the point, no of us are truly self made. We all were helped at one point or another. Helped doesn't mean handouts, it could mean familial solidarity and connections.
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Err, but that's what happened to me. I left my family's home at 18, went to college, took out students loan, studied engineering, got a good job once I graduated, and now paid off most of my student loans and am now on my way to making 6 figures.

i do agree though that a stable family is crucial for upward movement.
 
R

rudieboy77

Member
SnakeXs said:
steve-jobs-240.jpg


Obviously a supreme minority and I in no way disagree with your statement.
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Even he wasn't purely self made, every genius stands on the scaffolding left by other geniuses before them.
 
N

nitewulf

Member
entrement said:
Much of real estate values is location location location. You pay for the neighborhood in NYC, just like you would in a suburban locale.
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i know, i live in Park Slope...i was just pointing out why the brick or brownstone townhouses cost that much. non-new yorkers tend to think in big scales with acres of space...i mean, if i move to rural jersey, i could buy acres of space with $450,000, but then i'd have fuck all to do.
 
Z

Zaraki_Kenpachi

Member
entrement said:
That's what I figured. Immigrant families to have a higher sense of solidarity. I've seen this time and again.

The American Way of individualism tells parents to kick out their kids, with tons of loans and bad job prospects out of college, letting them fend for themselves in poverty. And that's the point, no of us are truly self made. We all were helped at one point or another. Helped doesn't mean handouts, it could mean familial solidarity and connections.
Click to expand...

Uhh, the american way isn't kicking your kids out and making them live in poverty. Could you exaggerate a little more? And it's the kids who want out, not parents kicking their kids out.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
Err, but that's what happened to me. I left my family's home at 18, went to college, took out students loan, studied engineering, got a good job once I graduated, and now paid off most of my student loans and am now on my way to making 6 figures.

i do agree though that a stable family is crucial for upward movement.
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Definitely.

But we forget how much a supportive family environment helps young adults have a good start. We take it for granted. In that respect, we are not self made, we stand on the shoulders of our parents, who provided an environment to foster education and professional growth.

Working with kids in the inner city and they have much more obstacles and less familial support. Again, not just in money.

Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
No shit? The insides are still crazy though and much higher than most houses whether you live in a city or not.
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It looks prewar. The have amazing ''bones'' or internal structures and not made with shitty materials you find in newly constructed housing, meant to cut corners. Those command much higher real estate values in NYC since they are no longer built.
 
J

Jhoan

Member
Like every other New Yorker in this thread, I'm not surprised at all. It's why lower class families usually buy houses in other states (not trying to generalize). Owning a house in the city means one has some serious cash to blow.

Bloomberg is going to be remembered as the mayor who favored the rich since he's gentrified tons of neighborhoods during his 3 terms. Good riddance that his term is finally coming to an end.
 
B

BotoxAgent

Member
yeah, I am from a poor immigrant family as well. But I managed to do well for myself and have a good education and now a high-paying job, and I feel lucky to live in Manhattan now. But government aid (getting good financial aid so I can afford to go to a great education at NYU especially) definitely helped move up the ladder for sure. My brother went to Columbia University, and my sis went to Bryn Mwar. And when my mom first entered this country 20 years ago, her starting salary was $20,000 and my dad worked sorting mail at the post office making next to nothing, and they were supporting all three of us. Now my brother works in analytics for American Express in NYC making $450,000 a year, and I make $90,000 working in pharma advertising. My sister works at Blackstone as a legal assistant and going to law school. We definitely owe a lot to government financial aid back in the day.

It would suck for students to work their ass off in high school but their potential gets neutered just cuz their parents aren't rich.

edit: i went to school back in the 90s, when NY wasn't too insane: I remember taking the L train to school and getting mugged on a daily basis -_-
 
B

Batman

Banned
It's great that Lhota is going to win instead of De Blasio, so basically Bloomberg will start his 4th term. De Blasio should be nowhere near the mayoral seat in NYC.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
Man fuck New York. Places like that might be fun to visit but no way in hell would I live there unless I wiped my ass with benjamins
 
T

The Lamp

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
it is not a myth. My immigrant family came ot the US with $0 in our pockets. Now, we own 3 homes. My aunt came over as a refugee. Had no one to help her. Now she owns like what, i forgot, 8 homes?

We're not billionaires, but i would like to say we've made it. the whole myth "oh you need to be born into a wealthy home in order to be wealthy" is a cop-out pathetic excuse that allows ppl to lose all form of self-responsibility and say "oh i'm so poor because i was born poor".

Even if they were born into a rich family, where did you think thta family got rich from? it all had to start with someone in the past who was a self-made man.
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Hey man, same with my family. We came from this country dirt poor and we're all successful now because we have a hard work ethic.

It shocks me how lazy some of my American brethren are, especially the people I grew up with. "lol who cares about college". Um, in my country, you didn't have the privilege to go to college. So my family values things very differently than some of the other people I know.

But success isn't a formula. Not everyone who works hard gets success in life, and not everyone who has success in life worked hard for it. So ultimately it's ineffective to truly judge people because of things like this. So stories like yours and mine, we can't use them against people like "if you were just like us you would be successful" because that's not true. Success isn't one size fits all.

Attitude and work ethic is a big component of it, though, and a lot of Americans could use less entitlement attitude and more work-your-ass-off-for-the-things-you-want attitude. But I'm kind of digressing from the actual problem at hand...sorry about that folks.
 
J

Josh7289

Member
The Lamp said:
Hey man, same with my family. We came from this country dirt poor and we're all successful now because we have a hard work ethic.

It shocks me how lazy some of my American brethren are, especially the people I grew up with. "lol who cares about college". Um, in my country, you didn't have the privilege to go to college. So my family values things very differently than some of the other people I know.

But success isn't a formula. Not everyone who works hard gets success in life, and not everyone who has success in life worked hard for it. So ultimately it's ineffective to truly judge people because of things like this. So stories like yours and mine, we can't use them against people like "if you were just like us you would be successful" because that's not true. Success isn't one size fits all.

Attitude and work ethic is a big component of it, though, and a lot of Americans could use less entitlement attitude and more work-your-ass-off-for-the-things-you-want attitude. But I'm kind of digressing from the actual problem at hand...sorry about that folks.
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No, I agree with you. A lot of people who are born lucky in this country don't realize it and waste it with attitudes like what you described. So there are a lot of problems all around.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Iron Badger said:
Dallas?
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A $300,000 home doesn't get you that kind of woodwork, and that's without taking into account the furniture. Those upholstered seats are also easily $800 each, maybe more if they are restored antiques, and the marble chimney costs a fortune. Those are legit pads for the wealthy.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
neptunes said:
Are they spacious inside or something?
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Did you read the article?

"with a lush backyard garden, four bedrooms and three baths."

Nickodemos said:
Thing is, the second house looks nicer. It has a bit of courtyard in front and what looks like a garage (though it seems unused with the greens in front of it; I've heard car ownership in NYC is a horrible experience).
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Look closely....count the number of doors, each floor is an apartment, vs the entire building being one. The garage was probably converted to a very badly insulated bedroom.
 
C

Chocobro

Member
After living in NYC all my life, I'm not that surprised. It makes me mad sometimes.
My mom is always complaining about our property tax constantly increasing over the years; if I recall correctly, it was ~$8G this year.
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
Err, but that's what happened to me. I left my family's home at 18, went to college, took out students loan, studied engineering, got a good job once I graduated, and now paid off most of my student loans and am now on my way to making 6 figures.

i do agree though that a stable family is crucial for upward movement.
Click to expand...

And do you think everyone can simply go to college and become engineers? And even if it were theoretically possible, would it actually be good for the country if every member of it was an engineer?
 
S

Sulik2

Member
Gotta love living in a plutocracy. How does this make any sense? The more valuable the property, the more you should be paying in taxes. Period. This is insane.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
SnakeXs said:
steve-jobs-240.jpg


Obviously a supreme minority and I in no way disagree with your statement.
Click to expand...

By stealing other people's work and kicking down the people that helped prop up the company.

Even then so he came from an upper middle class family in California, and all of the regular had police keeping him safe, teachers teaching him, and all that jazz that goes on in a society.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Banned
America by the rich for the rich. When people talk about the work hard go to college blueprint, they really have no idea how many people really live. Extremely ambitious hard working people don't get the same type of chances, or even get to make the right decisions. Life is complex.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
I'm so fucking sick of personal anecdotes about working hard and making a living for yourself and everyone can do it because you did. Congratulations, really. Now go look up the stats on social mobility and income inequality in this country in the last 3-4 decades (might as well look up health, education, and living expenses too) and tell me everything is great and poor people just need to work harder.
 
Nikodemos

Nikodemos

Member
jamesinclair said:
Look closely....count the number of doors, each floor is an apartment, vs the entire building being one. The garage was probably converted to a very badly insulated bedroom.
Click to expand...
Hmm, wondered why a house would have two doors side-by-side (initially thought it was some sort of odd above-ground basement). In this case it's minuscule.
 
Z

zero_suit

Member
XMonkey said:
I'm so fucking sick of personal anecdotes about working hard and making a living for yourself and everyone can do it because you did. Congratulations, really. Now go look up the stats on social mobility and income inequality in this country in the last 3-4 decades (might as well look up health, education, and living expenses too) and tell me everything is great and poor people just need to work harder.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's an old hat. Regarding mobility:
http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobility/

snapshot-mobility.png.608
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
zero_suit said:
Yeah, it's an old hat. Regarding mobility:
http://www.epi.org/publication/usa-lags-peer-countries-mobility/

snapshot-mobility.png.608
Click to expand...

Japan always interested me as it is probably one of the few nations in the world in which school grades are similar across both the rich and poor and both put huge effort in succeeding. Yet it barely is in the top ten for the most socially mobile nations and has a poverty rate that is almost the same as America. Not to knock Japan but it really takes a shit on the "bootstraps" argument.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Nickodemos said:
Hmm, wondered why a house would have two doors side-by-side (initially thought it was some sort of odd above-ground basement). In this case it's minuscule.
Click to expand...

Yup, its a very common building style in the east coast.

Three story building looks like large house...but it's three small apartments.

The door on the right would immediately lead to stairs going up. The door on the left enters the apartment (probably living room / dining / kitchen combo.

Door on bottom floor is the same, another apartment, with less light, more mold and less heat.
 
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