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[Macam]

The newly released document, dated Aug. 1, 2002, contained a summary of statements made days earlier by a detainee, whose name was redacted, in two interviews with an FBI special agent, whose name also was withheld, at the Guantanamo prison for foreign terrorism suspects.

The American Civil Liberties Union released the memo and a series of other FBI documents it obtained from the government under court order through the Freedom of Information Act.

"Personally, he has nothing against the United States. The guards in the detention facility do not treat him well. Their behavior is bad. About five months ago, the guards beat the detainees. They flushed a Koran in the toilet," the FBI agent wrote.

"The guards dance around when the detainees are trying to pray. The guards still do these things," the FBI agent wrote.

The Pentagon stated last week it had received "no credible and specific allegations" that U.S. personnel at Guantanamo had put a Koran in the toilet.

The documents indicated that detainees were making allegations that they had been abused and that the Muslim holy book had been mishandled as early as April 2002, about three months after the first detainees arrived at Guantanamo.

In other documents, FBI agents stated that Guantanamo detainees also accused U.S. personnel of kicking the Koran and throwing it to the floor, and described beatings by guards. But one document cited a detainee who accused a guard of dropping a Koran, prompting an "uprising" by prisoners, when it was the prisoner himself who dropped it.

The Pentagon had no immediate comment on the documents.

And to make this GAF-worthy:

In another document, written in April 2003, an FBI agent related a detainee's account of an incident involving a female U.S. interrogator.

"While the guards held him, she removed her blouse, embraced the detainee from behind and put her hand on his genitals. The interrogator was on her menstrual period and she wiped blood from her body on his face and head," the memo stated.

A similar incident was described in a recent book written by a former Guantanamo interrogator.

More below:

Source:http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...m/20050525/ts_nm/security_guantanamo_koran_dc

 

[MIMIC]

This is the "60 Minutes" memo debacle all over again: right about the story, wrong about the source.

But the White House has already done it's damage by discrediting the story.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

This is the "60 Minutes" memo debacle all over again: right about the story, wrong about the source.

But the White House has already done it's damage by discrediting the story.

I'd say Newsweek has done plenty of damage themselves.

 

[videogamer]

I'd say Newsweek has done plenty of damage themselves.

Didn't they already apologize?

Anyways, about the White House. If this story turns out right, when will the WH apologize? Or is it all some far-away-subordinate's fault?

 

[ronito]

Alrighty, someone find a low level corporal that we can court marshal over this misconduct so we can get on with the war.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Didn't they already apologize?

Anyways, about the White House. If this story turns out right, when will the WH apologize? Or is it all some far-away-subordinate's fault?

Yes, they did apologize. But 12 people died in the protesting that has occured in Afghanistan as a result of this story.

 

[MIMIC]

If this story turns out right, when will the WH apologize?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol





























Oh, you were serious.

 

[Azih]

Frankly I know this kinda stuff happened at Guntanamo and Abu Gharib.


If American personnel had no qualms about letting dogs ravage defenceless prisoners, or stripping them naked and forcing them onto a manpile then what the fuck would stop them from mistreating a book?

 

[Kuroyume]

Why is this shit even news? There is worse crap going in normal U.S prisons. They could have thrown these guys in U.S. prisons and I am sure they would rather have menstrual blood wiped on them instead of being raped 10 times in a row by 300 lb dudes. Menstrual blood... there are people out there who like to get poop smeared on them for christ's sake. That's such a lame thing to even point out...

 

[videogamer]

Yes, they did apologize. But 12 people died in the protesting that has occured in Afghanistan as a result of this story.

However, if Newsweek turned out to be correct all along about the story, then wouldn't the protesters still protest? If they had gotten a better source, wouldn't the protests still occur?

Of course, this still pales to how many people die.... oh it's been said already.

 

[Azih]

Why is this shit even news?

Because it violates Geneva conventions? Because it exemplifies an attitude that won't endear the muslim world to America?

 

[Incognito]

Yes, they did apologize. But 12 people died in the protesting that has occured in Afghanistan as a result of this story.

um, not really. the afghan president and even the white house bobblehead scott mccellan have done an about face and admitted that the newsweek story had nothing to do with the "pre-planned" riots.

in fact, scotty boy was grilled during his daily edition of talking points limited, aka white house press briefiing over the issue. but whatever, as someone pointed out earlier, the whitehouse did it's damage and newsweek certainly didn't help by caving into conservative pressure. to be sure, they had 60minutes part II on their mind every minute up to the point where they actually retracted the story. what a sad state of affairs when news orginizations are publically denounced and pressured by our government. everyone makes mistakes, but it just so happens that when the media commits one it sparks a fire under every conservative's dumbass of "liberal bias". of course, this is nothing new, just part of the conservative's agenda of discrediting anything that doesn't conform to their distorted reality and labeling it as "hurting america," "liberal biased," "unfair," etc..

 

[videogamer]

Why is this shit even news? There is worse crap going in normal U.S prisons. They could have thrown these guys in U.S. prisons and I am sure they would rather have menstrual blood wiped on them instead of being raped 10 times in a row by 300 lb dudes. Menstrual blood... there are people out there who like to get poop smeared on them for christ's sake. That's such a lame thing to even point out...

1. At least these guys have gone through trial. The people in Cuba? They've been sitting on the dirt for like 2-3 years now without any kind of trial.
2. Give us an example of what you consider to be newsworthy.

 

[Kuroyume]

Flushing the Koran down the toilet violates the Geneva convention? Why does the Muslim world need to know this? So our soldiers could be put in more danger? I've opposed this war since finding out I was lied to but I sure as hell think the media needs to stfu in this case. If they were getting nails hammered into their genitals or something like that then I can see the urgency there but menstrual blood and the koran? Come on now...

1. At least these guys have gone through trial. The people in Cuba? They've been sitting on the dirt for like 2-3 years now without any kind of trial.
2. Give us an example of what you consider to be newsworthy.

I agree with the trial thing and as for something news worthy? Real physical pain... organs removed for no reason, broken bones, burnings, etc

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Oh, trust me, I agree, that if the story is true, than what the interroators did was completely wrong. But Newsweek was also incredibly irronsponsible in their journalism by not checking their sources and finding more evidence that this took place. They simply released the story based on a single source who "can't remember" where he heard this nugget of information.

It doesn't help when the author of the story says, as recently as today or yesterday, that when all is said and done, this will be "just a blip".

There is plenty of blame to go around here. We don't have to have one side hot it all up.

 

[way more]

In another document, written in April 2003, an FBI agent related a detainee's account of an incident involving a female U.S. interrogator.

"While the guards held him, she removed her blouse, embraced the detainee from behind and put her hand on his genitals. The interrogator was on her menstrual period and she wiped blood from her body on his face and head," the memo stated.

A similar incident was described in a recent book written by a former Guantanamo interrogator.

When I first read about this story it pointed out that she used red ink. Damn, who says women are too dainty to serve in the military, that is some cold horrible shit.

 

[Macam]

Didn't they already apologize?

Anyways, about the White House. If this story turns out right, when will the WH apologize? Or is it all some far-away-subordinate's fault?

See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda. (Applause.)

(From: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050524-3.html).

To whomever initially brought the subject up, Newsweek had little to do with the Afghanistan protests according to both Hamid Karzai and troop personnel on the ground. The White House's smear campaign was the first to make such assertations; if you need evidence of quotes, I'm sure I could dig them up in a matter of minutes.

As for why this is important? Because it's one more shining example of an independent third-party source contradicting the administration's flat out lies with regards to an international war situation that's only getting worse and worse. No one's denying the state of American prisons, but the ramifications of this situation has direct and indirect implications for our troops who are actively on duty as well as our citizens and international relations. To downplay the news is to simply turn a blind eye to it, which certainly won't change things.

 

[Diablos]

DAMN LIBRULS, YALL ARE A BUNCH OF CITY SLICKERS
CHARLTON HESTON IS MY PRESIDENT
GO EAT SOME MORE APPLES AND WATCH FRIENDS RERUNS AND READ YER NEWSWEEK YA LIBRULS

 

[videogamer]

Why does the Muslim world need to know this?

So that the truth may come out.... the government claims that this is a just war. I don't see how these tactics support this.

So our soldiers could be put in more danger?

Other soldiers should not be hurt for what a few other soldiers did in the prisons.

I've opposed this war since finding out I was lied to but I sure as hell think the media needs to stfu in this case. If they were getting nails hammered into their genitals or something like that then I can see the urgency there but menstrual blood and the koran? Come on now...
I agree with the trial thing and as for something news worthy? Real physical pain... organs removed for no reason, broken bones, burnings, etc

Alright I see your pov. However, some people like to see the news about celebrity relationships or the runaway bride. I like to see politics and world events, and not everything interesting requires physical pain. For instance, I found Galloway's speech fascinating. The British elections were interesting. None of these involved (not too much at least) physical pain.

Oh, trust me, I agree, that if the story is true, than what the interroators did was completely wrong. But Newsweek was also incredibly irronsponsible in their journalism by not checking their sources and finding more evidence that this took place. They simply released the story based on a single source who "can't remember" where he heard this nugget of information.

How about mentioning that: The soldiers were irresponsible for doing things that would inflame Muslims? That the White House may have tried to shift the blame of the riots onto Newsweek? Or that conservatives tried to shift the blame of 12 dead people onto Newsweek?

 

[Xenon]

Hey Newsweek, why didn’t you mention they received copies of the Koran from the US military which has a policy in place to handle the books in a way that is respectful to the Muslim religion? I’m sure it wouldn’t have taken too much bite out of your story.


Was this irresponsible journalism? You betcha. Magzines write stories to maxamize dramatic effect. This story was written to grab people . It did, only it was the wrong people. I'm sure they had no idea this would happen.

Just plain stupid.

The funny thing is, I bet if they had a negative story about Iraqs or Muslim they would probably make more of an effort to check their facts and make sure they didn't offend anyone.



As for the act... reckless and stupid. If it did happen, then the people should be punished.



Its sad to me that there is more of an outcry for this book than the people who killed in the riot. That's religion for you =P

Other soldiers should not be hurt for what a few other soldiers did in the prisons.

There are a lot of things in this world that should be or not be

So that the truth may come out.... the government claims that this is a just war. I don't see how these tactics support this.

I just hope someday we will be able to fight the PC war that the modern day media demands. There will be no name calling! Both sides will respect each others feelings, philosophies, and religious beliefs! IT WILL BE THE NICEST WAR EVER! E> ^_^

 

[ToxicAdam]

I guarantee the directive to wipe menses on prisoners came straight from Laura Bush herself.

Of course, there has been a huge coverup, and the right wing media will never allow it come to light.

What a corrupt fucking regime. I know I have said I want to move out of the country ... but I am SERIOUS this time!

 

[videogamer]

I just hope someday we will be able to fight the PC war that the modern day media demands. There will be no name calling! Both sides will respect each others feelings, philosophies, and religious beliefs! IT WILL BE THE NICEST WAR EVER! E> ^_^

I know you're being sarcastic, but you don't seem understand. It's the hypocrisy of a righteous war that takes advantage and promotes legal and moral gray areas. Why does the government (and its supporters) still try to make the war out on such postive terms, if not plainly holy?

 

[Macam]

To further supplement why this matters, Amnesty's report today pretty much is spot on in their assessment as to the ramifications in my opinion:

"The USA as the unrivalled political, military and economic hyper-power sets the tone for governmental behavior worldwide," Secretary General Irene Khan said in the foreword to Amnesty International's 2005 annual report.

"When the most powerful country in the world thumbs its nose at the rule of law and human rights, it grants a licence to others to commit abuse with impunity," she said.

London-based Amnesty cited the pictures last year of abuse of detainees at Iraq's U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison, which it said were never adequately investigated, and the detention without trial of "enemy combatants" at the U.S. naval base in Cuba.

"The detention facility at Guantanamo Bay has become the gulag of our times, entrenching the practice of arbitrary and indefinite detention in violation of international law," Khan said.

She also noted Washington's attempts to circumvent its own ban on the use of torture.

"The U.S. government has gone to great lengths to restrict the application of the Geneva Convention and to 're-define' torture," she said, citing the secret detention of suspects and the practice of handing some over to countries where torture was not outlawed.

U.S. President George W. Bush often said his country was founded on and dedicated to the cause of human dignity -- but there was a gulf between rhetoric and reality, Amnesty found.

Full story below:

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/05/25/amnesty.report.reut/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

 

[Xenon]

Why does the government (and its supporters) still try to make the war out on such postive terms, if not plainly holy?

This is the first major conflict in which the media has access to and willingness to print this much information. The amount of negative news is overwhelming. I'm sure this over gloss of positive is just there to provide a balance to the huge amount of information about the negative aspects of war like death, rights violations, torture and human depravity. These are all things that happen in war. Not because its planned or the best way to fight it. They happen because PEOPLE are the ones fighting it and that’s just the stupid shit they do. It happens on both sides. Thing is before no one gave a shit about the "other side" and what happened to them. Now we're examining it like a psychiatrist would a fight between a dysfunctional couple. Trying to make sure we fight that perfect war. It’s not going to happen. I agree we should make sure we try to prevent human right violations where we can. I don’t think this is one of those events.

I don't want to get into the justification for the war or how it was sold to the people. Its been done to death here.

 

[Macam]

While there's a point to be made about the increased media coverage, a large part of the reason that the "negative aspects of war like death, rights violations, torture and human depravity" are such an issue has a large part to do with precisely what you don't want to discuss: the justification of the war and how it was sold to people. Just look at the difference in coverage between the wars in Afghanistan versus the war in Iraq. They're not identical wars, but there's certainly far more negative perspectives coming out of the situation in Iraq because of it.

There's no such thing as a clean war to be sure, but we should be clear as to why this matters: it's having tremendous short and long term negative consequences on an international level with regards to how America is perceived, in addition to undermining the administration's integrity in a country where it still retains power, controls policy, and is still, generally speaking, widely supported at home.

 

[videogamer]

This is the first major conflict in which the media has access to and willingness to print this much information.

Are you telling me that the media didn't have access to a comparable amount of information during Vietnam? Sure, the government wasn't so involved in handing out PR back then, but the press did have a presence in Vietnam. In addition, there were leaks... and I forgot the name of that really big one. As for visual imagery, I don't know if the press in Iraq has taken pictures of anything that came close to the napalm girl or the Viet Cong that is about to be executed.

The amount of negative news is overwhelming. I'm sure this over gloss of positive is just there to provide a balance to the huge amount of information about the negative aspects of war like death, rights violations, torture and human depravity. These are all things that happen in war. Not because its planned or the best way to fight it. They happen because PEOPLE are the ones fighting it and that’s just the stupid shit they do. It happens on both sides. Thing is before no one gave a shit about the "other side" and what happened to them. Now we're examining it like a psychiatrist would a fight between a dysfunctional couple. Trying to make sure we fight that perfect war. It’s not going to happen. I agree we should make sure we try to prevent human right violations where we can. I don’t think this is one of those events.

I don't think people are really working for a "perfect war" (already close to an oxymoron). Come on, how often is "perfection" achieved anyways? What they want is a cleaner war where unnecessary physical and emotional attacks are not done. Example: Abu Garib was not necessary.

Why don't they (especially the hardcore supporters here) admit that this war is dirty? Bush speaks about human rights and respect for life, but he turns around and lets things like indefinate imprisonment and possibly sending prisoners to 3rd countries occur. Why not call a spade a spade? Then the discussion can move onto some real change.

 

[Xenon]

Why don't they (especially the hardcore supporters here) admit that this war is dirty? Bush speaks about human rights and respect for life, but he turns around and lets things like indefinate imprisonment and possibly sending prisoners to 3rd countries occur. Why not call a spade a spade? Then the discussion can move onto some real change.

War by nature is dirty. The only thing I can say is America has tried to fight a "clean" war more so than anyone has done before. It however is being fought by individuals and shit like this is going to occur. It is not one more reason why, as you said, this war is unjust.

As I said before the article made no mention of the procedures in place to respect the Koran and how it should be handled. So, it made it look like the US does not respect Koran vs. soldiers breaking the rules of the handling of the Koran.

While there's a point to be made about the increased media coverage, a large part of the reason that the "negative aspects of war like death, rights violations, torture and human depravity" are such an issue has a large part to do with precisely what you don't want to discuss: the justification of the war and how it was sold to people.

Agreed, it is my main problem with the Bush administration. They sold this war on fear. The public and the press feel betrayed. I understand that. But to say there was no reason to go into Iraq is just as wrong as saying we had to go in there right away, IMHO. It's extremes on both sides of the debate. I have discussed it, at length. This isn't about the justification of the war. It is about an event, it's reporting, and the result.

 

[Azih]

I call bullshit on the justification that these things happen because war is dirty.

We're talking about the treatment of PRISONERS here, not a battle situation. And we're not even talking about the treatement of prisoners in the theatre of operations we're talking about the treatment of prisoners in secured facilities where the prisoners are completely and totally at the mercy of the captors. There is no justification for mistreatment in this situation. none. If it happened then the millitary brass/government should have put a stop to it immediately and punished the individuals responsible. This was belatedly done in Abu Gharib but only because the damn pictures of humiliation and torture were leaked to the public ffs. And even then the blame fell on two low level scapegoat stooges. America lost any moral high ground in the eyes of the world completely with these attempts at blaming the freaking media about Guantanamo. They're even trying to discredit Amnesty International now. Freaking AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL!

Bush likes to spout that this a fight to protect the civillised world. These are not the actions of a civillised people.

 

[Xenon]

I call bullshit on the justification that these things happen because war is dirty....

Bush likes to spout that this a fight to protect the civillised world. These are not the actions of a civillised people.

We are talking about flushing a book down a toilet right?

 

[Azih]

We are talking about flushing a book down a toilet right?

Among other things yes.

Don't even try to minimise that action though. That action was taken precisely because the guards/interrogators knew what the effect would be.

Jesus dude we're talking about humiliation here. You know how angry people get when someone burns or stomps on the American flag (Why do they get angry? That's just a piece of cloth innit? DUR DUR DUR) This is fucking worse. And if you don't recognize even that than holy shit how in hell are you going to enter into a constructive dialouge with, y'know, the vast majority of the freaking muslim world?

 

[bob_arctor]

We are talking about flushing a book down a toilet right?

Well, yeah, kinda like the KKK talking about burning some crosses. No biggie.

 

[SKluck]

Well, yeah, kinda like the KKK talking about burning some crosses. No biggie.

Yet those aren't major national news stories.

 

[Xenon]

Jesus dude we're talking about humiliation here. You know how angry people get when someone burns or stomps on the American flag (Why do they get angry? That's just a piece of cloth innit? DUR DUR DUR)

If Americans rioted and people were killed over the burning of the flag I would be would be saying the exact same thing. They burned a fucking cloth get over it.

This is fucking worse. And if you don't recognize even that than holy shit how in hell are you going to enter into a constructive dialouge with, y'know, the vast majority of the freaking muslim world?

I know its not something to be taken lightly. But it also wasn't an act committed against the whole Muslim world.

Humiliation? Shit if that’s a war crime we need to get the UN into the public schools quick because that shit happens on a daily basis. Lets get some freakin perspective here please.

 

[Azih]

Yet those aren't major national news stories.

Burning flags is.

 

[Xenon]

Well, yeah, kinda like the KKK talking about burning some crosses. No biggie.

yes because Koran flushing has been running rampant through America

 

[Azih]

I know its not something to be taken lightly. But it also wasn't an act committed against the whole Muslim world.

It was. (Once again, if you don't even understand this then... damn but there is no hope)

Who is talking about war crimes? (I'm not well versed in Geneva so it may be it may not be) Treating prisoners with dignity is a mark of a civilised nation and America failed that test with Guantanamo.

Further what the fuck do the riots have to do with how the American prison personnel should have acted in Guantanamo? Here's a hint. NOTHING.

 

[Azih]

yes because Koran flushing has been running rampant through America

It was carried out by a member of the freaking U.S millitary for the love of Pete. A representative of the U.S government in a U.S controlled facility with as far as can be seen the tacit approval of the higher branches. And the response of the U.S government hasn't been outrage at the action but outrage that someone reported it.


Edit To another thing you said

If Americans rioted and people were killed over the burning of the flag I would be would be saying the exact same thing. They burned a fucking cloth get over it.

Like I said this is fucking worse. You should not be surprised at all that massive riots happened because of this (apparently accurate) news.

 

[bob_arctor]

Plus, it's just common fucking sense, even if you leave out the whole denigrating aspect. Seriously, why would anyone do this, especially in light of the monumental fuck-up known as Iraq?

 

[Azih]

Bah double post

 

[Xenon]

Further what the fuck do the riots have to do with how the American prison personnel should have acted in Guantanamo? Here's a hint. NOTHING.

Actually it has a lot to do with the topic ^ which is the newsweek article.

It was.

No it wasn't. =P At least not by America.

It was carried out by a member of the freaking U.S millitary for the love of Pete. A representative of the U.S government in a U.S controlled facility with as far as can be seen the tacit approval of the higher branches. And the response of the U.S government hasn't been outrage at the action but outrage that someone reported it.

It got the same reaction that the Muslim world would have if they flushed a US flag. Or showed someone getting beheaded. None! Were was the fucking outcry from the "Muslim World" then?

 

[Xenon]

Like I said this is fucking worse. You should not be surprised at all that massive riots happened because of this (apparently accurate) news.

Which is why nesweek should have taken care with this story. They could have talked about the policies that the US has for handling the Koran. Nope it was just another log on the fire for them.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I keep hearing that the riots aren't over the Koran flushing anyway, but over regional politics.

Let's not get cuaght up in some small details. The big factor is-- we're embarassing ourselves over the treatment of the prisoners, the Koran flushing being just one detail. And people are reacting the way they are because we didn't exactly have a moral high-ground in the first place, seeing that we fabricated the justification for war in the first place. That's something world opinion has been clear on since day one, and as more supporting details emerge, I don't really understand anybody who believes otherwise.

 

[Macam]

Which is why nesweek should have taken care with this story. They could have talked about the policies that the US has for handling the Koran. Nope it was just another log on the fire for them.

Again, let's be clear about one thing regarding Newsweek and the riots in Afghanistan: they were not directly responsible for the riots and this has been acknowledged by military personnel on the ground as well as Hamid Karzai. Newsweek could've taken more care certainly (and we can debate indefinitely that all media should take more care, period), but Newsweek isn't necessarily at fault simply because they didn't allocate more to the story. There's an limit on space in print magazines and the news story was correct while the source was wrong, but that was acknowledged and corrected. Now I'm not pinning a lack of space in the magazine as justification for not going further into the story, but I fail to see how talking about the policies that the US has for handling the Koran would necessarily have made things any better, particularly since the occurrence marks a direct violation of it; and furthermore, one could argue that Newsweek should've gone further and noted Red Cross' observations of further similar violations from 2003. America may not be flushing Korans down the toilet left or right, but this was not an isolated incident as the Red Cross noted in a report from 2003 which was brought to the attention of the military (who naturally ignored the claims).

You seem to be implying that Newsweek should've 'balanced' the story by denoting the positive things the miliary are doing, but such reporting does two things: invoke direct bias and attempt to whitewash wrongs. Nor do such things have a place in the context of the story; it reminds me of a Chris Rock joke, "(Expletive) always want credit for things they're supposed to do. "I take care of my kids!" You're supposed to take care of your kids!"

 

[videogamer]

Humiliation? Shit if that’s a war crime we need to get the UN into the public schools quick because that shit happens on a daily basis. Lets get some freakin perspective here please.

Can the US just then pull out of the Geneva Convention? That should tell the world that the US won't be dancing around the issue anymore.

It got the same reaction that the Muslim world would have if they flushed a US flag. Or showed someone getting beheaded. None! Were was the fucking outcry from the "Muslim World" then?

The goal here is not to stick to the low standards. It's about improving them.

Yet those aren't major national news stories.

You obviously don't watch the same sources as I do. In fact, I've seen information abut cross burnings in my history books!

 

[Azih]

Actually it has a lot to do with the topic ^ which is the newsweek article.

But it has nothing to do with how American guards should or should not have acted in Guantanamo. You can't use the first to mollify the second.

No it wasn't. =P At least not by America.

Intent doesn't go very far at all in these cases. Like I've said everybody working in Guantanamo should have fucking known what the reaction to something like this would have been and SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT AT ALL. Hell you should know what should have happened. It's just common freaking knowledge. Go read a book, or hell better yet, go down to your local mosque and ask someone there. Shit I'm telling you right here right now. You do NOT disrespect the Quran. You just... don't.

It got the same reaction that the Muslim world would have if they flushed a US flag. Or showed someone getting beheaded. None! Were is the fucking outcry from the "Muslim World" then?

A few things

1. All you see about the response of the muslim world to this stuff is the sensationalistic pap you see on your lousy news sources.

2. What the 'Muslim world' does has no bearing on what happened on Guantanamo at all. Do you really think a "well at least we're not as bad as them" statement is any sort of a fucking defense? You can't use that to minimise what happend at guantanamo at all.Trying to do so doesn't even make any damn sense.

Which is why nesweek should have taken care with this story. They could have talked about the policies that the US has for handling the Koran. Nope it was just another log on the fire for them.

Newsweek adding a 'But the U.S has policies for handling the Koran which were not followed in these cases' disclaimer would not have made the situation better in any fucking way.

You don't think the story should have been supressed do you?

 

[ronito]

Say what you want. Fact is we were supposed to be the good guys. We were supposed to be above this.

 

[Xenon]

But it has nothing to do with how American guards should or should not have acted in Guantanamo. You can't use the first to mollify the second.

Its not meant to, its a continuation of the events.

Intent doesn't go very far at all in these cases. Like I've said everybody working in Guantanamo should have fucking known what the reaction to something like this would have been and SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE IT AT ALL. Hell you should know what should have happened. It's just common freaking knowledge. Go read a book, or hell better yet, go down to your local mosque and ask someone there. Shit I'm telling you right here right now. You do NOT disrespect the Quran. You just... don't.

Or people will die? yeah the larger problem here is the Quran being flushed.


http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050525155009990006


In January 2003, the military issued a three-page written guideline for handling a detainee's Quran, including a stipulation that it should be handled ''as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art,'' and that it not be placed in ''offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet or dirty/wet areas.''

A few things

1. All you see about the response of the muslim world to this stuff is the sensationalistic pap you see on your lousy news sources.

2. What the 'Muslim world' does has no bearing on what happened on Guantanamo at all. Do you really think a "well at least we're not as bad as them" statement is any sort of a fucking defense? You can't use that to minimise what happend at guantanamo at all.Trying to do so doesn't even make any damn sense.

No, but neither does a "this war is unjust" because of this event. It was more of a response to your comment abuot the lack of an outcry from Americans about the Quran.

Newsweek adding a 'But the U.S has policies for handling the Koran which were not followed in these cases' disclaimer would not have made the situation better in any fucking way.

Your prob right because most of the people who rioted don't care much for knowing the full story

You don't think the story should have been supressed do you?

No. Just handled better.

 

[Macam]

In January 2003, the military issued a three-page written guideline for handling a detainee's Quran, including a stipulation that it should be handled ''as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art,'' and that it not be placed in ''offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet or dirty/wet areas.''

That went over real well, don't ya think? We followed that to the letter!

 

[Xenon]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...rticles/2005/05/19/why_islam_is_disrespected/


Why Islam is disrespected
Jeff Jacoby
May 20, 2005


It was front-page news this week when Newsweek retracted a report
claiming that a US interrogator in Guantanamo had flushed a copy of the
Koran down a toilet. Everywhere it was noted that Newsweek's story had
sparked widespread Muslim rioting, in which at least 17 people were
killed. But there was no mention of deadly protests triggered in
recent years by comparable acts of desecration against other religions.


No one recalled, for example, that American Catholics lashed out in
violent rampages in 1989, after photographer Andres Serrano's ''Piss
Christ" -- a photograph of a crucifix submerged in urine -- was
included in an exhibition subsidized by the National Endowment for the
Arts. Or that they rioted in 1992 when singer Sinead O'Connor,
appearing on ''Saturday Night Live," ripped up a photograph of Pope
John Paul II.


There was no reminder that Jewish communities erupted in lethal
violence in 2000, after Arabs demolished Joseph's Tomb, torching the
ancient shrine and murdering a young rabbi who tried to save a Torah
from the flames. And nobody noted that Buddhists went on a killing
spree in 2001 in response to the destruction of two priceless,
1,500-year-old statues of Buddha by the Taliban government in
Afghanistan.


Of course, there was a good reason all these bloody protests went
unremembered in the coverage of the Newsweek affair: They never
occurred.


Christians, Jews, and Buddhists don't lash out in homicidal rage
when their religion is insulted. They don't call for holy war and riot
in the streets. It would be unthinkable today for a mainstream priest,
rabbi, or lama to demand that a blasphemer be slain. But when Reuters
reported what Mohammad Hanif, the imam of a Muslim seminary in
Pakistan, said about the alleged Koran-flushers -- ''They should be
hung. They should be killed in public so that no one can dare to
insult Islam and its sacred symbols" -- was any reader surprised?


The Muslim riots should have been met by an international upwelling
of outrage and condemnation. From every part of the civilized world
should have come denunciations of those who would react to the supposed
destruction of a book with brutal threats and the slaughter of 17
innocent people. But the chorus of condemnation was directed not at
the killers and the fanatics who incited them, but at Newsweek.


From the White House down, the magazine was slammed -- for running
an item it should have known might prove incendiary, for relying on a
shaky source, for its animus toward the military and the war. Over and
over, Newsweek was blamed for the riots' death toll. Conservative
pundits in particular piled on. ''Newsweek lied, people died" was the
headline on Michelle Malkin's popular website. At NationalReview.com,
Paul Marshall of Freedom House fumed: ''What planet do these [Newsweek]
people live on? . . . Anybody with a little knowledge could have
told them it was likely that people would die as a result of the
article." All of Marshall's choler was reserved for Newsweek; he had
no criticism at all -- not a word -- for the marauders in the Muslim
street.


Then there was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who announced
at a Senate hearing that she had a message for ''Muslims in America and
throughout the world." And what was that message? That decent people
do not resort to murder just because someone has offended their
religious sensibilities? That the primitive bloodlust raging in
Afghanistan and Pakistan was evidence of the Muslim world's
dysfunctional political culture? That the Bush administration would
redouble its efforts to defeat the Islamofascist radicals who use
religion as an excuse to foment violence and terror?


No: Her message was that ''disrespect for the Holy Koran is not
now, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, tolerated by the United
States. We honor the sacred books of all the world's great religions."


Granted, Rice spoke while the rioting was still taking place and
her goal was to reduce the anti-American fever. But what ''Muslims in
America and throughout the world" most need to hear is not pandering
sweet-talk. What they need is a blunt reminder that the real
desecration of Islam is not what some interrogator in Guantanamo might
have done to the Koran. It is what totalitarian Muslim zealots have
been doing to innocent human beings in the name of Islam. It is 9/11
and Beslan and Bali and Daniel Pearl and the USS Cole. It is trains in
Madrid and schoolbuses in Israel and an ''insurgency" in Iraq that
slaughters Muslims as they pray and vote and line up for work. It is
Hamas and Al Qaeda and sermons filled with infidel-hatred and
exhortations to ''martyrdom."


But what disgraces Islam above all is the vast majority of the
planet's Muslims saying nothing and doing nothing about the jihadist
cancer eating away at their religion. It is Free Muslims Against
Terrorism, a pro-democracy organization, calling on Muslims and Middle
Easterners to ''converge on our nation's capital for a rally against
terrorism" this month -- and having only 50 people show up.


Yes, Islam is disrespected. That will only change when throngs of
passionate Muslims show up for rallies against terrorism, and when
rabble-rousers trying to gin up a riot over a defiled Koran can't get
the time of day.


©2005 Boston Globe

 

[Xenon]

That went over real well, don't ya think? We followed that to the letter!

Most did. Its even been said that Detainees are doing things to the Quran and blaiming guards to incite anger.