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[Hurricane_Chris]

Below the following questions I write a bit about my next-generation expectations. It’s pretty long but I’m really curious about what my fellow GAFers were expecting the next-generation systems to deliver and how you feel after seeing some of Xbox360s stuff right before E3 starts.

I want to ask you guys a few questions about your expectations for the next-generation from 2005 E3 and beyond. Below are the questions, below that are my answers and below that is a bit I wrote about my own next-generation expectations.

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?
2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?
3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?
4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

The next set of questions is given in two parts and probably should be answered after E3 is over:
5. Did you go to E3??
6. How did you feel about Xbox360’s showing?
7. How did you feel about Revolution’s showing?
8. How did you feel about PS3’s showing?
9. Were you disappointed in what you saw from any of the next-generation systems? If so what and why?
10. What were the most impressive next-generation games you saw and why were you impressed by them?
11. Do you plan to buy an Xbox360 on or near release, wait for a while, or wait until all 3 systems are available?

My answers (more detail is in the paragraphs below)
1. HD anti-aliased bigger and better visual quality than systems available today along with great sound. Improved game-play, entity and environment interactivity, and AI afforded by the huge bump in CPU cycles.
2. No. Pretty much what I expected.
3. PS3 and Rev will be slightly more powerful but there’s won’t be a significant difference in looks or sound. Depending on input methods, accessories, and original development the actual gaming experience on the systems may be significantly different leading the way for an eventual leader to the next-generation console wars to emerge.
4. Yes. I’m super excited!!!

I’ll be making my way across the Pacific to LA on Thursday so I won’t be at E3 for the initial fireworks so I’ll be frantically refreshing my browser like most of the folks here until then. As I make my to-do list for stuff that I need to make sure that I do on this trip I started sifting through the abundance (oddly enough) of information that has either slipped out or been released pre-E3. The top three things for me are the next-generation consoles, handhelds, and mobile phones.

I have a fairly good idea of what to expect of handhelds and mobile phones. Essentially they’re pretty limited devices and are advancing on a timeline similar to that of consoles released in the past. In the looks department I expect the PSP to have the best AV with most games delivering DC-level looks and sounds. I expect most games to deliver standard handheld mobile game-play while attempting to emphasize the various strengths of the platforms (input methods, wireless networking, connectivity with other platforms, etc).

With the Xbox360 MTV thing and the various screenshot releases I then felt that my initial expectations for the next-generation consoles was also pretty much right on target. Regarding the AV side of things I expected the initial games to be nice clean HD visuals with great sound, but essentially better looking and sounding versions of what we have today. Big improvements I expected to see where: interactivity with in-game entities and environments, larger numbers of game entities on screen at once, improved game entity AI, and other advances afforded by having extra CPU cycles. From the looks of things Xbox360’s first crop of games are going to deliver just that…

However, after seeing the MTV stuff I cruised into GAF and was sort of surprised at the reactions I saw. With one 30-minute MTV special, not even intended for hardcore gamers people were proclaiming Xbox360 doomed. With the release of what I think were some old PD0 shots (featuring the super-sexy and now famous “Wall Guy”) people were saying they weren’t going to get Xbox360 at all and wait for the more powerful PS3. GAFers started posting shots of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within CG, Tekken 5 CG, and other Hollywood movie production CG and saying that’s what they expected of this generation and they will be horribly disappointed if it’s not delivered.

The people on GAF tend to generally be more up to speed in regards to technology etc (even though it's sometimes blinded by blatant fanboyism) but if people here have such unrealistic expectations...What is Joe average going to think when he sees a next-gen system running on his friend's crappy standard definition phillips TV not looking drastically better than the current gen's best games?

Dunno, what do you guys think?

 

[gofreak]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?

At least noticeably better graphics than high end PC games. Some distinctly cg-ish ones. PD0 being the best looking fps yet.

2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

Yes, a lot of the games don't eclipse what we've seen in PC land..or at least, the high profile ones, like PD0. GoW is about the best looking game there, and I thought that'd be the general standard, at least.

3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

In terms of gaming looks, I've tempered my expectations significantly. I'd be happy if the general standard was a bit better, but I'm not expect last-gen cg in realtime or anything. I'm hoping both sony and nintendo will have something "new" to show us in terms of game interface (though both may keep cards close to their chests..).

4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

Not going to E3, but still excited about the systems.

 

[xabre]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?

Difficult to put in words but I would say at least a noticeable jump over current high end PC graphics. If you took HL2 for instance I would say a much more (technically) polished version of that game, as in extremely high poly environments with fine details like small rocks in rubble and wood palings modelled instead of just textured, high quality and varied textures and significant texture effects like normal, gloss, environment mapping etc as well as advanced shader effects and a nice dynamic lighting system if not a full blown global illumination model. Furthermore, high quality animation that is essential is selling the graphics and giving the whole game a cinematic feel and well as highly advanced physics and AI. Finally, 4x FSAA and 16x AF as standard and HDTV resolutions supported (min 720p).

2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

I wouldn't say disappointed but I wouldn't say things have entirely lived up to my expectations either. While graphically some of my above expectations have been met and I can say I have been impressed with many of the games such as GoW or PGR3 and that in general the graphics seem to be a step beyond what we do currently have, this next generation bears a bit too many similarities with the current generation for my liking. And I guess that is to be expected in a way (a PS/N64 to PS2/GC/Xbox jump was never really realistic) as the technology jumps to each successive generation will continue to diminish in the future as well. However, the technology such as advanced lighting and shading as well as the animation that should significantly differentiate these next generation games from their predecessors in the prior generation aren't really doing so. Part of me says, "It's the same thing that just looks a bit better", and if I have that attitude what attitude is the casual consumer going to have?

I think the actual manner in which Microsoft has went about unveiling the new Xbox has been utterly pitiful. No only were there constant leaks in the months prior to the consoles unveiling (right there killing a lot of build up) but the actual unveiling itself left a hell of a lot to be desired that will need to be rectified at E3 and in the coming months. Watch Sony and Nintendo in the next few days for how a console unveiling is done properly.

3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

I believe both the Revolution and PS3 will outperform Xbox 360 technically. I also don't buy this shit that the Revolution will be underpowered because Nintendo don't want a powerful console or because it's in a small box; no Nintendo console has ever launched behind the technology curve and the Revolution will be no exception. As for the technical difference between all three machines? I expect Sony to have a slight advantage over Nintendo with Microsoft making up a slightly bigger gap in third place. The overall graphical performance difference between PS3 and Xbox 360 will be less than Xbox and PS2.

I fully expect Sony to bring out its usual array of demos in which they'll look incredible and everyone will proclaim it the second coming, ala PS2. Nintendo will show some game demos that probably won't look as good in comparison and that will set another year of flames and trolls in motion, demo vs real game - theoretical vs real world. The end result though, will be two machines that are both similarly capable in real world performance just like the current generation of machines are.

4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

It isn't feasable for me to go the E3 but I'll be watching the Nintendo conference live and keeping as eye on what the other two present as well. I'll also have to try an make do with the meager amount of download allowance I have left - so not too many videos

 

[Mooreberg]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?

Games that are a noticable leap over any game/engine/real time video I'd seen before now.

2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

Yes. If unfinished hardware was the culprit, than throwing that kind of shindig on primetime TV should have been held off until closer to launch.

3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

Yes, but I'm also hoping that the Xbox 360 games on display are more impressive than what was shown Thursday night. Looking at the specs, the system is obviously capable of it.

4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

Not going, and I'm remaining cautiously optimistic about what we get to see.

 

[newsguy]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?
To be honest, I would have been happy if the 1st gen stuff looked like Far Cry and HL2 running on high end PC's. I really feel that this gen spoiled me with games like Ninja Gaiden and RE4. If they could put out games like these but eliminate all the jaggies, slowdown, and improve the visuals noticeably, I would sign on for Next-Gen


2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

I was disappointed when I saw PD0 (who wasn't). The first thing that came to mind was "this isn't even a noticeable leap by my standards." It's really sunk in that I probably won't ever get that "WOW" feeling like I did when I went from Madden on the PS1 to NFL 2K on the DC. Basically I set my bar low enough that some of the games look awesome, but as it stands it's nowhere near the leap we saw last gen.
3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

Have no clue about Rev, but if Sony delivers on the hype, then yes, there should be a visible difference in graphics between PS3 and 360. Another huge plus is BluRay for people who own HDTV's because it seems what the PS2 did for the DVD, the PS3 will do for BR.

 

[imastalker co.]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?

true next generation graphics.

2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

sure. granted, i saw a couple of games that showed that the hardware is clearly capable of well a next level in graphics, but not quite up to par with what i was hoping for.

3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

im gonna go with a yes. why? developers. aside from japense stuff, gears of war, and PGR3, everything on the system has nasty style. something that games on PS3 and Revolution won't have for the most part just because of the developers working on it.

4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

yes i'll be attending (atleast i hope), and duh.

 

[imastalker co.]

oh, and does anyone have any pics of the basketball game shown? i remember it looking nuts for the few seconds that it lasted, but that's it. even then, i can't even remember how good it looked.

 

[newsguy]

NBA 2K6

 

[Odnetnin]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?
2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?
3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?
4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

1) dunno but more than X360 has currently shown.. playable ingame stuff too

2) more than it has so far. Aside from GOW (which I've more or less seen PC screens for) X360 was underwhelming - PDO is laughable. Oh yes. Disappointed.

3) yes. Because they just will. Especially Sony

4) No. Extremely excited. I want to see what I'll be playing in the coming year. LOZ + WANDA + SE+ MGS4. kicksass!


Is this a X360 questionaire? Its all X360 this and that.

 

[imastalker co.]

thanks, but was that it? i remember seeing a professional court and multiple players.

 

[IJoel]

If you don't think GoW is truly next-gen, prepare to be VERY disappointed.

To even stress the point more, GoW is pretty much the big showcase title for the Unreal Engine tech, that's quickly becoming the new "Renderware." I'm sure there will be titles in the future to surpass GoW's graphics, but right now, it's probably close to as good as it gets.

Of course, this is not counting the Sony/Nintendo/MS tech demos showcasing the power of their respective consoles. Then, again, there's a big difference between tech demos and playable titles.

I was extremely disappointed with PD0's showing. Doesn't mean it's an indicator of the technology behind the console. We already know the specs of Xbox 360. Consider that you can get a game like HL2 or Doom 3 running at hi-res, with AF/AA at 60+fps with the current PC technology available. Xbox 360's CPU should be more powerful than current offerings, and the GPU shouldn't find an equal in the market until 2006-2007. We should be seeing titles looking significantly better looking than HL2 and Doom 3 soon.

 

[newsguy]

thanks, but was that it? i remember seeing a professional court and multiple players.

I think so, it's Lebron James doing some crossovers and it's edits of him dunking, shooting a three, and then it's a real slo-mo shot of a jumpshot where you see that the jersey moves freely. If they had a clip with many players then I missed it, and that pisses me off.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Is this a X360 questionaire? Its all X360 this and that.

No. Microsoft shot their load early so I mention them the most since that's what we've seen so far . The next set of questions 5-11 deal with all of the E3 next-gen stuff.

 

[gofreak]

and the GPU shouldn't find an equal in the market until 2006-2007.

Not to take this thread off on a tangent, but: the GPU should find its equal, in some senses, this year. The X360 GPU boasts roughly twice the shading power as a R420 - if the R520 doesn't match that at least, it'd be very disappointing. We already know now that it'll beat it in terms of vertex and fillrate performance. Just because another chip with a unified shading architecture won't be hitting till 2006 doesn't mean it won't meet its match, performance wise, this year. The R600 (probably a late 2006 chip) should spank the R500 six ways till Sunday in nearly every area. Unified shaders don't inherently provide more performance, they're just a different way of using that performance (and that "different way" has plusses and minuses).

The R500, performance-wise, is about what you'd expect from a chip coming out in late 05. There's nothing extraordinary about its performance, just that it's used in a different way than previously (it's more flexible, but you're also giving up the efficiencies of dedicated, seperate vertex/pixel shaders).

 

[aaaaa0]

The R500, performance-wise, is about what you'd expect from a chip coming out in late 05. There's nothing extraordinary about its performance, just that it's used in a different way than previously (it's more flexible, but you're also giving up the efficiencies of dedicated, seperate vertex/pixel shaders).

Depends on what you're doing.

In some cases the R500 will spank the R420 by more than a factor of ten.

For example, turn on 4xMSAA and draw lots of alpha blended quads. The R420's performance will tank completely as it gets bottlenecked on framebuffer bandwidth. The R500 will just power through it like it was nothing.

Hell, R420 will never normally reach it's full fillrate even just rendering Z+colour, except in the most pathological benchmark cases, due to memory bandwidth limits.

 

[gofreak]

Depends on what you're doing.

In some cases the R500 will spank the R420 by more than a factor of ten.

For example, turn on 4xMSAA and draw lots of alpha blended quads. The R420's performance will tank completely as it gets bottlenecked on framebuffer bandwidth. The R500 will just power through it like it was nothing.

Hell, R420 will never normally reach it's full fillrate even just rendering Z+colour, except in the most pathological benchmark cases, due to memory bandwidth limits.

True, the eDram brings advantages in certain situations. I expect you'll get a slightly disproportionate benefit out of better resource utilisation on a unified architecture too (although I'm wondering about loss of efficiency from dedicated shader units..though i don't think it'll be enough to completely offset gains elsewhere). I'm just saying that in terms of resources (shading resources, specifically), the R500 isn't magically beyond what you'd expect from a chip in late 05 - but it uses them differently.

 

[imastalker co.]

but they can only do so much without a TK-421 chip.

 

[Striek]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?
Next Generation graphics. Take HL2 and increase the characters and environments significantly and add heaps of AA/AF. The Gears of War clip is representative of the norm of what I expected.
2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?
Incredibly. It was like a punch to the guts, I am not impressed by anything(software wise I mean, controller, system looks etc. is awesome), and X360 was the console I had been looking forward to a lot. PD0 of course looks like shit, even in the supposed 'new' screenshots, it looks like a (crap) Xbox game. Other games didn't impress as well, either through being ugly or being obvious renders (NBA comes to mind, people are impressed when its not in-game footage being shown). What I really wanted was IN-GAME footage to be shown. Ghost Recon 3 delivered this I had thought, but it was pre-rendered! Very, very, very disappointed.
3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?
Yes. PS2 delivered the graphics it promised (from tech demos) and I've no doubt its successor will do the same. I expect it to pan out X360--ps2 to xbox jump-->Revolution--same jump again-->PS3. So to sum up, I clearly expect PS3 to impress a lot more than most. I know I shouldn't set my self up like that (especially after X360 disappointment!) but I can't help it. On gameplay, I expect the computing power of PS3 and the innovation of Revolution to make a tangible difference. Better than X360? No, just different. If all 3 consoles have different gameplay, consumers win.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

thanks, but was that it? i remember seeing a professional court and multiple players.

The only one I saw was the single player one with the clothing movement simulation> I've heard we'll see a bit more of that sort of thing with multiple characters at E3 tho.

As an addition to my answers for the above questions I'll just say that oneof the biggest next-gen improvements I'm looking forward to is sports games. Given the extra horsepower I expect not only looks to improve but individual player AI, adaptive tactical AI and better physical simulation of contact between players.

 

[Shig]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?

Slightly better than current high-end PC graphics.

2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

A little bit, but certainly not to the degree some here are. A lot of them were predictably lazy efforts that you always see around a console's launch. The average quality will ramp up as time goes on, like always.

3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

"Signifigantly", no. The 360 is no slouch spec-wise and if Sony and Nintendo wanted to best it signifigantly, they'd be taking a large hit on profits because they'd have to sell at a pretty big loss. Sony's probably reluctant to risk that to any great degree because of their company's financial position, and Nintendo always goes for profitability over power.

4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

Nope, and yep.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

1. Before seeing the Xbox360 system, specs, screenshots, video, and MTV special what were you expecting next-generation systems to deliver?

Something distintively different than the top games of this generation, from last gen to this was a big jump from the end of last gen to the start of this, and considering the power leap this gen you should have seen something similar, the power should be freeing up artists to be able to do what they want with even less limitations

2. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff (MTV, shots, movies, etc) were you disappointed and why?

yes, because it showed that artists and developers really didn't seem to be taking advantage of anything this new system was offering

3. After seeing the Xbox360 pre-E3 stuff do you think PS3 and revolution will deliver gaming looks, sounds, and game-play significantly improved over what the Xbox360 will have? Why?

I don't know I think the 360 is obviously a powerfull piece of machinery, and I think the Rev and PS3 since they are coming later will be even more so, but I think that all rests on the developers, they really need to raise the bar here, some one could have the world's greatest, sharpest, most perfect sword but if they don't know how to use it and swing it around blindly theyre gonna get their ass kicked by some one with a shittier piece

4. Will you be going to E3? If so are you still excited about next-generation systems?

nope wish I was though new hardware always excites me




I think my biggest expectation for this next generation as I have stated before is more advanced Lighting engines

that seems to be IMHO why alot of people are looking at these "Next Gen" Shots and going well they dont look like anything that couldnt really be done this gen and I think theyre right, and I think the main culprit of that is the lighting engines are the same ones being used today

Look at engines like the Doom 3 and UE3, just from a technical standpoint, they represent such leaps graphically cause of what theyre doing with lighting, until the next gen of console games starts recoding their lighting engines to take advantage of the new power and hardware I really dont see any HUGE OMG jumps in graphics like we saw from last gen to this one

but that's me

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Here are my post-E3 answers to questions 5-11

5. Did you go to E3??
Yes

6. How did you feel about Xbox360’s showing?
They didn't show much for a system that's launching in November. Live looks great but the games running on alpha kits don't really show me what I'm gonna be playing once I plunk down my $350 (after tax, shipping, etc) in November. 360s launch seems to be shaping up to be similar to the DC's launch in scope.

7. How did you feel about Revolution’s showing?
System looks pretty sleek, but I was hoping for more details. The All Nintendo system BC is great (I hope 3rd parties get on board and maybe Nintendo works a deal for All Sega systems BC too) and the fact that Nintendo seems to be embracing an approach similar to their handhelds (cost, 3rd parties, trying to get a wider audience) in their home console realm give me hope about their home console future.

8. How did you feel about PS3’s showing?
Can anything slow down the Sony hype train once it gets going? To have shown as little as they did I felt PS3 had the most buzz coming out of E3. Of course, keeping everything a secret and unleashing it at the show had something to do with that.

9. Were you disappointed in what you saw from any of the next-generation systems? If so what and why?
Not really dissapointed, about what I expected. 360 was a bit dissapointing because of the alpha hardware and Rev a bit because of a lack of details (altho I didn't expect Nintendo to show their hand so soon anyways going into E3)

10. What were the most impressive next-generation games you saw and why were you impressed by them?
I did not actually PLAY a next generation game that impressed the heck out of my interms of looks, gameplay, or bringing a new experience as a result of the horsepower provided by new systems. I saw alot of promising stuff in vids and demos though :-(

11. Do you plan to buy an Xbox360 on or near release, wait for a while, or wait until all 3 systems are available.
I will buy all 3 systems on the day that they launch.

In conclusion, I'm most excited about: PS3, Rev, 360 at this point although after 360 launches I'll no doubt be consumed with it for a while (I hope the games (especially PDZ) do a Halo-esque turnaround between E3 and release.