KURDISTAN YPG
Member
Only good thibg about e3 was how we all know for most part what to expect especially on new gens, know is mini episode with little or no information
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But you do not need more than a few gigabytes of data per scene. Also there is no constant loading of data from the drive. The key will be the quality of compression and data sampling in RAM, almost always.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
edit:
The phone app has options to subscribe to 360 deg audio services and has a part where you have to photograph your ear from two angles for upload to cloud for analysis - like Cerny talked about for the Tempest engine
That ear photo should be useful for PS5 semi-HRTF for casuals like me who don't have access to high-end HRTF measurements! This is the app on smartphones:
All will be compatible with PS5, the older and current (XM3) and future (XM4) if it supports LDAC, which is already a Sony tech. I'm pretty excited to see reviews of XM4 with PS5 compared to PS headsets.
Skyrim has an 8K texture mod which comes in at 5.5GB. 8K might not be that taxing on space after all.
These 5.5GB mods for Skyrim introduce new 8K textures that were made with 3D Scans
Modder 'winedave' has released brand new texture packs for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Basically, you're looking at a texture overhaul that weights around 5.5GB.www.dsogaming.com
Although they might be 8K assets, they're probably compressed. Sounds like a great deal if it can turn out being great and sustains enough 8K details.
I doubt that, and I'll talk about it extensively later. 12 Channels vs 4 Channel, 6 priority level vs 2 P.L. It's physical, can't be fixed with software or even black magic.
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Jaguar Victory
Member
The real question will be if FROM can create a next gen game without frame pacing issues.
geordiemp
Member
According to some tweets from guy who created nanintes , this technology heavily relays on ACE ( asynchronous compute engine ). ACE is part of GPU like a CU. PS4 has 8 ACEs and xbox one has two. RDNA2 should have 4 ACEs. Still even if the count be the same for PS5 and XSX, PlayStation should be faster due to the faster clock speed. But BC could be harder to manage due 4 less ACEAnd given that they stayed at 36 CU to make BC easier on hardware ... So my point is SSD is part of their story. I/O is another part of the story. Mesh shaders ? They are already dated if you ask me.
Do we know if Sony stuck with teh 8 Ace of Ps4 or went back to 4 ? Imagine if Sony stuck with 8 lol
Creative Super X-FiThat ear photo should be useful for PS5 semi-HRTF for casuals like me who don't have access to high-end HRTF measurements! This is the app on smartphones:
All will be compatible with PS5, the older and current (XM3) and future (XM4) if it supports LDAC, which is already a Sony tech. I'm pretty excited to see reviews of XM4 with PS5 compared to PS headsets.
Although they might be 8K assets, they're probably compressed. Sounds like a great deal if it can turn out being great and sustains enough 8K details.
I doubt that, and I'll talk about it extensively later. 12 Channels vs 4 Channel, 6 priority level vs 2 P.L. It's physical, can't be fixed with software even with black magic.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Oh, so it's the compression and the sampling. I see
When you say a few gigabytes what are you talking about? Tell me a number.
And explain why there won't be constant streaming of data please.
FeiRR
Banned
Jaguar Victory
Member
This isn't like last gen. Cerny believes that fewer, faster ACEs are better now. (Or cheaper on the silicone budget).
zaitsu
Banned
My wild guess; they went with 8. Judging only by their solution for BC which is making next hardware similar to recent one.
Jaxx_377
Neo Member
That is not a car< i dont care what new designation they want to give it but it is not a car!
Number? The number of available RAM? This is the correct answer.Oh, so it's the compression and the sampling. I see
When you say a few gigabytes what are you talking about? Tell me a number.
And explain why there won't be constant streaming of data please.
just do not say that you believe in unlimited game worlds....
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Thirty7ven
Banned
What about BC? It's not like the PS5 has less CUs than the PS4 PRo. Makes sense to have the same number of ACEs and ROPS. At least.
Number? The number of available RAM? This is the correct answer.
just do not say that you believe in unlimited game worlds....
Oh I believe in what developers are saying, there's really no two ways about it for me.
And considering you're not even trying to follow up on what you're saying, I'm guessing you're about as far from a game developer as it gets.
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
If it relies on ps5 level streaming speed something will have to give.
My question is given the assets were way too much to fit into ram does that mean the ram was maxed out?
If so then the XSX would be full too and what happens when the faster portion is filled? Does it then limit the overall bandwidth with needing that slower ram?
If so then that's a problem.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
You must look at the details. PS5's SSD is not just 100 times faster than PS4's storage solution. Cerny said they aimed to also make the I/O 100 times faster too i.e the efficiency of communication between the SSD and game code, which is equally as important.
This explains it better:
On top of all the work they've done in this area, the PS5 SSD also has 12-memory channels, which again is an attempt to remove bottlenecks. So they've done all this work so that in 0.25 of a second iirc, 2GB of game assets (i.e textures) can be loaded, which is game changing for graphics as this is faster than a character can turn his FOV in a game.
When it comes to Series X, yes absolutely it has a very fast SSD. But it's not only slower in raw read/write speed in comparison, it's I/O is also slower based on our best evidence. We don't know exactly what it is capable of until MS says more, but based on what we know 2GB of assets would take 0.50 secs to load on Series X but only assuming MS has done as extensive work to the I/O as Cerny detailed for the PS5, which seems unlikely at this point.
xacto
Member
xacto
Member
Do share, if you have info, I am not touching that place with a ten-foot pole.
ZeroFool
Member
I was going to go with the Porsche Hybrid LMP1 car, watching the videos of that is amazing. It reminds me of early GT or Forza games when they were barely working in the LMP prototypes. They were on rails and some fakery was helping you drive no matter what you turned off. Well that Porsche seems to match that bonkers physics defying ability.
(note: I am a racer and driver coach, so do not let me post in any of the racing threads)
ToadMan
Member
But marketing those things is just nerd stuff in the end.
I think as usual it'll come down to exclusives - and MS will come up short again. There's not enough money for MS to buy their way in, they tried that already and failed. Then they waited too long to get a first party set of studios together after canning their X360 stable. By the time they can release anything Sony will already be well in the lead sales-wise and there's no guarantee what MS do release will be any good - their track record is pretty average.
If any of the arguing back and forth about power actually mattered, Nintendo would've been out of the console business 20 years ago.
Games Dean
Member
There's a difference between the tech being able to run on XSX and PC (which it obviously does) and the demo being able to (We have no evidence that it does or doesn't). So let's stop treating speculation as fact. Or better yet move on because this topic as a whole is played out.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
tmlDan
Member
Ever since this guys video was linked, i've been watching his content - he's super informed and even mentions getting high level specs for PS5 almost 2 years ago when at EA. To think they had this info 2 years ago really shows nobody is/was unprepared to release their next gen consoles.
Can't wait for the following parts covering the second half of the presentation.
BGs
Industry Professional
We should analyze this "Like" and the reasons for it before being disappointed.
"PS5 is not 9.2"
Right.
"PS5 is greater than 10."
Right.
"PS5 is at 12-13."
Right, thats nunber is in puberty range.
So tell me, what is the reason why I could not like your comment?
If you want to base it in numbers, in your case, assuming 10.28 like reality then 10.28 x between 1.20-1.25 (Rdna1 factor) = between 12.33-12.85 (gnc equivalence). In range with your numeric assumption 12-13. But in reality it was 10.28 x 1.5 (rdna2) = 15.42 (gnc). In any case it is still puberty.
Even so if you don't like my Like I can take it from you if you want
It is also a theoretical conversion factor that only serves as a "guide". Or so that now you can go out there saying that I have said that PS5 has 15.42 TF. Hey! But take it like a little salt.
Edit. Sorry, I have not specified it. In my case, the Like was only for one of these statements. Another day, when I put a like, I will accompany you with an explanatory answer.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He said CUs, mentioned nothing about ACEs, I don't recall.
saintjules
Member
That ear photo should be useful for PS5 semi-HRTF for casuals like me who don't have access to high-end HRTF measurements! This is the app on smartphones:
All will be compatible with PS5, the older and current (XM3) and future (XM4) if it supports LDAC, which is already a Sony tech. I'm pretty excited to see reviews of XM4 with PS5 compared to PS headsets.
Although they might be 8K assets, they're probably compressed. Sounds like a great deal if it can turn out being great and sustains enough 8K details.
I doubt that, and I'll talk about it extensively later. 12 Channels vs 4 Channel, 6 priority level vs 2 P.L. It's physical, can't be fixed with software even with black magic.
Creative Super X-Fi
Since I don't use headphones to game, I'm curious to know how this might work with Home Theater.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Obviously Playstation has a brand and fanbase advantage, but Sony can absolutely drop the ball. Marketing isn't for nerds, it's for everyone else. Nerds will know all about these consoles before they release.
There are a ton of factors that go into it. One of them is just a person plainly walking into a store and seeing those console stands, and one of them will just pique their interest. Based on looks alone.
I do agree, and honestly I just dismiss anyone who debates this, Sony exclusives can't be compared to MS ones overall, they just can't. But Sony can fuck it up, because they aren't exactly growing their output from what I can tell. Quite the opposite, and adding Insomniac to WWS was cool and all but these studios are taking four to five years to release games? What the fuck man. Really becomes a case where if you get two or three flops in a row it becomes pretty grim.
ZeroFool
Member
The good news here is both companies have arrived at a new paradigm of storage speed and IO implementations.
It should benefit AMD in the PC space first, Intel might have to play catchup.
In the console space we do still have a bit of wait and see. Sony will probably be first out of the gate with next gen only games.
The most important thing is look at what the 1st party and good 3rd party Studios have achieved over the years. Then look at the leaps to nextgen with higher performance cpu, gpu, and the of course totally new SSD framework. I am honestly excited, we are going to play freaking amazing games soon!
My only hope is we get longer experiences, and not some of the short 8-hour campaigns that plagued the last two generations. It will be interesting to see how both systems truly shake out in the 3rd party or low budget teams. 1st party though!!
It should benefit AMD in the PC space first, Intel might have to play catchup.
In the console space we do still have a bit of wait and see. Sony will probably be first out of the gate with next gen only games.
The most important thing is look at what the 1st party and good 3rd party Studios have achieved over the years. Then look at the leaps to nextgen with higher performance cpu, gpu, and the of course totally new SSD framework. I am honestly excited, we are going to play freaking amazing games soon!
My only hope is we get longer experiences, and not some of the short 8-hour campaigns that plagued the last two generations. It will be interesting to see how both systems truly shake out in the 3rd party or low budget teams. 1st party though!!
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Outside of The Order and maybe R&C, what Sony 1P AAA was less than 14+ hours?
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Does anybody in here know a relative on the other side called David.We should analyze this "Like" and the reasons for it before being disappointed.
"PS5 is not 9.2"
Right.
"PS5 is greater than 10."
Right.
"PS5 is at 12-13."
Right, thats nunber is in puberty range.
So tell me, what is the reason why I could not like your comment?
If you want to base it in numbers, in your case, assuming 10.28 like reality then 10.28 x between 1.20-1.25 (Rdna1 factor) = between 12.33-12.85 (gnc equivalence). In range with your numeric assumption 12-13. But in reality it was 10.28 x 1.5 (rdna2) = 15.42 (gnc). In any case it is still puberty.
Even so if you don't like my Like I can take it from you if you want
It is also a theoretical conversion factor that only serves as a "guide". Or so that now you can go out there saying that I have said that PS5 has 15.42 TF. Hey! But take it like a little salt.
Edit. Sorry, I have not specified it. In my case, the Like was only for one of these statements. Another day, when I put a like, I will accompany you with an explanatory answer.
Does anybody know or maybe worked with a David who is no longer with us.
Does anybody know somebody who has passed with the letter A in their name.
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bitbydeath
Member
Mortal Kombat Boss Talks About Next-Gen Consoles: New Way of Handling Loading "Is Going to Be Huge"
Today, during a livestream part of Summer Game Fest, Mortal Kombat 11 Creative Director Ed Boon talked about his impression of the next generation.
twinfinite.net
Neo Blaster
Member
Are you going to bury yourself in ice just like he did?Waiting for PS5 console design and launch date date reveal, like:
Self High Five
Member
Just general concern trolling of the PS5 cooling system by the usual (discord) suspects. It's been amping up lately but nothing worth going out your way to see.
IkarugaDE
Member
Funny times where a like means an approve or a verification that a post is true.We should analyze this "Like" and the reasons for it before being disappointed.
"PS5 is not 9.2"
Right.
"PS5 is greater than 10."
Right.
"PS5 is at 12-13."
Right, thats nunber is in puberty range.
So tell me, what is the reason why I could not like your comment?
If you want to base it in numbers, in your case, assuming 10.28 like reality then 10.28 x between 1.20-1.25 (Rdna1 factor) = between 12.33-12.85 (gnc equivalence). In range with your numeric assumption 12-13. But in reality it was 10.28 x 1.5 (rdna2) = 15.42 (gnc). In any case it is still puberty.
Even so if you don't like my Like I can take it from you if you want
It is also a theoretical conversion factor that only serves as a "guide". Or so that now you can go out there saying that I have said that PS5 has 15.42 TF. Hey! But take it like a little salt.
Edit. Sorry, I have not specified it. In my case, the Like was only for one of these statements. Another day, when I put a like, I will accompany you with an explanatory answer.
Moses85
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Great questions, and it's time to give this matter more attention, let's forget 5.5GB/s vs 2.4GB/s or even 7GB/s max PCIe 4.0 for a moment now:
Current NVMe m.2 uses 4-8 channels vs 12 channels on PS5, XSX uses 4 channels according to Phison E19:
PS5 has 6 priority levels vs 2 priority levels on NVMe m.2:
Why 6 priority levels is crucial for gaming and how 2 priority levels can be a massive downgrade to game design and logic:
On other platforms with a slower SSD speed/design that can't keep up they might cripple in framerates, especially when turning around or moving:
Now, the issue with traditional GPU caches is they all flush everything and bring new data everytime, that could damage the GPU performance no matter how powerful it is and cause stalls. The GPU cache scrubbers, first of their kind and exclusive to PS5, along with coherency engines help to only take out unwanted data and keep what's needed and replace the space with new data, helping it to produce a seamless transition and maximum utilization of GPU/CPU/RAM and less bandwidth used as well.
Now, the PS5 I/O itself is as powerful as 11.5 to 12 ZEN2 cores, meaning to compensate for it alone you might need Ryzen Threadripper 2970WX processor, 24 core and you'll still fall short when The Tempest 3D Audio engine thrown to the mix, a GPU-based, SPU-like. Let's not forget Windows OS compared to simple API's.
While the NVMe m.2 has 2 priority levels:
PS5's custom SSD has 6 to make 6 different orders:
And while PS5's SSD uses 12 channels to fully reach its optimal 5.5GB/s raw, XSX SSD cramps into 4 channels which could cause more heat, throttling, and latency. So the 5.5GB/s vs 2.4GB/s direct comparison is not viable, and the difference in hardware is quite big and can't be bridged through software or even make the starting point 5.5 vs 2.4 possible.
It's very, very complicated to try and replicate PS5's overall SSD and I/O performance on PC's, and yes it's currently impossible without major architectural changes. We still need to see the placement of PS5's SSD, it can be extremely close, stacked, to even make us understand how insanely hard to beat it in the near future without assistance from massive RAM sizes.
Remember, 12 channels and 6 priority levels, and the later is crucial for game design and logic. Even if both are 2.4GB/s or 5.5GB/s PS5's customization will still give it the upper hand.
I believe Sony is working on a new architecture for m.2 drives along with other companies that's superior to current NVMe, and they just don't wanna spoil it right now.
More educated people in the matter may contribute or correct me here.
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Gediminas
Banned
Ghost Of Tsushima Looks Like Breath Of The Wild Without An Art Direction
Ghost of Tsushima may be a pretty looking game, but it certainly doesn't have any personality.
www.thegamer.com
as usual, slamming starting couple of month before release. nothing new in sony horizon.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I only use headset even for netflix and PC, but for TV's it's a safe bit that Sony will start with its own products.
See this intelligent tech on Sony's XH95 TV (X950H), timestamped:
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ToadMan
Member
"SSD belive" still alive... LOL
the quality of UE5 assets during rendering will depend on the amount of free RAM, level of data compression and the bandwidth of RAM... SSD speed does not play the main role here
UE5 Nanites is a kind of mesh shading as part of textures obtained by converting data
Microsoft talked about this back in March.
Advanced Mesh Shaders | Martin Fuller | DirectX Developer Day
It's a simple concept. Assuming for a moment that PS5 and xsex have the same amount of available RAM - 11Gb just for argument sake - the PS5 can load that in 2 seconds while xsex takes 4.5 seconds. Simplisitically speaking to maintain the same frame-rate the xsex has to use data which is half the size - or half as detailed. This is before considering the non unified RAM of the xsex and the different GPU architecture of the systems.
Ultimately the trade off is what percentage of the RAM is visible on screen now and how much RAM is holding data for what isn't on the screen yet but may be in future. A fast SSD allows a higher percentage of RAM to hold data that is visible on screen right now which translates to higher fidelity graphics.
In principle. In practice there are all kinds of other factors - but the SSD is a key element in keeping tghe whole pipeline optimised. Dismissing that speed is a mistake.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
ACEs schedule work to be done on the CU during their down time. If utilised a lot with useful work then you can get closer to that theoretical 100% CU occupancy (10/12TF).
I'm not sure what impact having more ACEs has, but the work is still carried out on the CUs as far as I understand it.
I'm not sure what impact having more ACEs has, but the work is still carried out on the CUs as far as I understand it.
BGs
Industry Professional
¿? Sorry, I don't understand you.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I've never seen screen tearing before, only read and see it on the web and youtube. Maybe it's a TV thing as well? Not sure.
BGs
Industry Professional
Right. A verification about PS5 is not 9.2 and is bigger than 10. The other numbers is from her assumption bassed on my "puberty" definition.
juaco1993
Neo Member
Hey man, did you guys receive the updated devkit already? If you can't answer because of anything just drop a thoughtful reaction.
Cheers!
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
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Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Fack you on about?
yewles1
Member
*remembers how well that worked out for the Vita*They did, it's proprietary for the slot on the back.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I think the software narrowing the gap is wishful thinking, it's a massive physical difference between the two: 12 channels vs 4 channels, 6 priority levels vs 2 priority levels. PS5's GPU cache scrubbers, coherency engines assisting them, allowing for less crowded data transfer and less bandwidth usage. Plus the super powerful I/O is equivalent to ~12x Zen2 cores. And that's while the Tempest doing most of the work for audio, leaving the main CPU cores playing UNO.
No software or wet dream could skip all of these. (opinion)
yewles1
Member
Question, CAN we confirm RDNA2 is a 25% increase in performance per clock/FLOP over RDNA1?We should analyze this "Like" and the reasons for it before being disappointed.
"PS5 is not 9.2"
Right.
"PS5 is greater than 10."
Right.
"PS5 is at 12-13."
Right, thats nunber is in puberty range.
So tell me, what is the reason why I could not like your comment?
If you want to base it in numbers, in your case, assuming 10.28 like reality then 10.28 x between 1.20-1.25 (Rdna1 factor) = between 12.33-12.85 (gnc equivalence). In range with your numeric assumption 12-13. But in reality it was 10.28 x 1.5 (rdna2) = 15.42 (gnc). In any case it is still puberty.
Even so if you don't like my Like I can take it from you if you want
It is also a theoretical conversion factor that only serves as a "guide". Or so that now you can go out there saying that I have said that PS5 has 15.42 TF. Hey! But take it like a little salt.
Edit. Sorry, I have not specified it. In my case, the Like was only for one of these statements. Another day, when I put a like, I will accompany you with an explanatory answer.
- Status