Imtjnotu
Member
Check the in line spoilerI don't know man, it's just normal discussions and healthy debates, although they can contain spicy information which is still healthy, I guess.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I don't know man, it's just normal discussions and healthy debates, although they can contain spicy information which is still healthy, I guess.
Fire fire fire
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
I've grown kind of fond of your participation in this thread, however to be honest I can see that some of your posts and remarks can provoke Xbox or PC gamers or even "neutral" gamers.
Sometimes you tend to exaggerate and overstep the mark of rational discussion / thoughts.
Now I'm not better in that regard however I try to be more openminded about all systems and before they've been massproduced, shipped and used with actual next gen games I am going to try to be careful with my thoughts, expectations and especially my remarks and statements in this thread.
It's just easier that way. People that don't share my opinion won't be as much agitated and the discussion will be more level headed.
However it seems obvious some people here just want to harass and troll to incite the discussion.
I've been close to the point to ignore some of these people because they are obviously trolling, ignorant or to stupid* to unterstand.
*I have a hard time calling other people stupid. I don't like to see myself as someone who's smarter then others or atleast I try to temper myself so I won't get overconfident.
But sometimes things are so outragously wrong interpreted and stated that I simply can't call it anything else.
Neo Blaster
Member
In half could be a stretch, but when you don't have to waste time developing solutions to go around the slow HDD, yes, BOTH SSDs can help devs work faster and focus on what really matters for the game.
Thirty7ven
Banned
Bo_Hazem has a Sony Computer Entertainment avatar. It's not like he's going around pretending to be neutral. Sure enough he's very excited about the PS5, but he tends to be positive about what will happen instead of spending his time spreading negativity about Xbox Series X.
Yet others are always ready to complain about SSDs and PS5 and spread negativity as if it's the fault of Playstation fans that next gen talk is no longer just about teraflops and ray tracing.
Yet others are always ready to complain about SSDs and PS5 and spread negativity as if it's the fault of Playstation fans that next gen talk is no longer just about teraflops and ray tracing.
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sircaw
Banned
It's so exciting, yes we have a good idea of what they have installed for us with the usual suspects like Hzd2 and a new god of war.
But man, what about those ultra secret projects, those new games that no one has any idea that are coming.
Soon, They are going to blow our minds.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
Maybe we should drop the term of "development time" and point out another term for these kind of things.
Developers won't have to deal with so many workarounds they will have more balanced and advanced systems, that will provide solutions for technical and practical problems that existed because of the former tech. Thus freeing ressources that can be put to better more effectiv use.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
That's why I used direct citations to Mark Cerny himself, it's not my personal opinion, it's more like observation. I was pretty clear at the end of that post that "more educated people can contribute or correct me here". That's why you see me engaging with those "more educated" people in a relaxed manner, not the ones trying to derail the the thread and shut down the facts.
Warm regards
Imtjnotu
Member
Bo is a hack
Games Dean
Member
So you took issue with ONE poster's opinion and proceeded to attribute it to a bunch of people as "a new narrative"? Looking funny in the light.
B_Boss
Member
That is pretty awesome of you and that is exactly why I prefer to attack people's thinking or arguments and not them as persons. Never a need for ad hominem attacks.
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TBiddy
Member
You need to prove your point. You claimed the SSD in the PS5 would cut dev time in half - at least.
How do you think your videos support that? It's not like teams can't work in parallel now or design environments in a short time. Do you honestly think AAA games will take 2-3 years to develop instead of 4-6 years?
I'm curious as to the path you took when you arrived at that conclusion.
saintjules
Member
I'm very excited to see what new IPs we may potentially see. Secret Studios doing secret things.
To be honest, something like God of War I wouldn't be expecting now. It would be a bit of a miss if they show a teaser and we won't see this game for another 2-3 years. HZD seems to be more likely, but even then, if they somehow get that as a launch title? That would be bananas. Lowkey, I expect that to be Q1 2021.
MasterCornholio
Member
Yep that's the issue that some people have with next gen talks. Each system has their strengths and weaknesses which is where most of the hurt feelings from sensitive individuals come from.
Definitely should be interesting to see comparisons between the two platforms.
Imtjnotu
Member
Not sure in half but Cerny did say it takes a month to get an engine up and running compared to the 2 months for ps4 and 6months for ps3
TBiddy
Member
Yeah, something like "1 month to first triangle" - right? I assume that was when creating new engines. I'd imagine it would be a lot faster than that, if you go with UE4/5 or Unity.
martino
Member
the metric seems odds or i misunderstood the part that made me thought next gen api are evolution of current one.
this fells like it's the case especially for MS but this the feeling i got from evolution talk of Cerny too .
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Ptarmiganx2
Member
19 years after the release lol!
Ptarmiganx2
Member
Well double the throughput for starters...
Neo Blaster
Member
Everybody loves Crews.Hopefully we can ban Body Odor for good.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Good, now we can discuss. Do all games have stories? No. Do all games have deep story-telling, lots of cinematic cut scenes? No.
With new AI tech, you can even replicate someone's voice so you don't need more than one person to do it for you:
Now, many hours are spent for animation as well, but new animation tech can provide natural animations without a lot of time and money spent on actors and settings, not to mention animals which is the hardest:
You don't need to bake lighting anymore with UE5 at least with Lumen:
Lumen is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. The system renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in huge, detailed environments, at scales ranging from kilometers to millimeters. Artists and designers can create more dynamic scenes using Lumen, for example, changing the sun angle for time of day, turning on a flashlight, or blowing a hole in the ceiling, and indirect lighting will adapt accordingly. Lumen erases the need to wait for lightmap bakes to finish and to author light map UVs—a huge time savings when an artist can move a light inside the Unreal Editor and lighting looks the same as when the game is run on console.
A first look at Unreal Engine 5
Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.
www.unrealengine.com
World design:
Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see. Nanite virtualized geometry means that film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons can be imported directly into Unreal Engine—anything from ZBrush sculpts to photogrammetry scans to CAD data—and it just works. Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time so there are no more polygon count budgets, polygon memory budgets, or draw count budgets; there is no need to bake details to normal maps or manually author LODs; and there is no loss in quality.
A first look at Unreal Engine 5
Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.
www.unrealengine.com
And:
In a recent interview, Lost Wing developer Tim Ash of BoxFrog Games discusses how the PlayStation 5 will improve and quicken the development process.
PS5 CPU Will Make Development Time Faster
In a recent interview, Lost Wing developer Tim Ash of BoxFrog Games discusses how the PlayStation 5 will improve and quicken the development process.
gamerant.com
Now something is specific to PS5:
The developers are saying PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they have ever coded on to reach its peak performance. Software-wise, coding for PS5 is extremely simple and has so many abilities that make the [developers] so free. In total, I can say PS5 is a better console.
PS5 is 'a better console' says Crytek engineer, simpler to develop for
A Crytek rendering engineer believes the PS5 is the ‘better’ console compared to the Xbox Series X and is much simpler to make games for.
metro.co.uk
==========
So, accordingly, I think half the time is possible, a personal opinion that I hope it doesn't offend anyone here.
EDIT: Thanks to
Neo Blaster
, time to develop cycle according to Mark Cerny:
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saintjules
Member
Page 2020
Neo Blaster
Member
Good, now we can discuss. Do all games have stories? No. Do all games have deep story-telling, lots of cinematic cut scenes? No.
With new AI tech, you can even replicate someones voice so you don't need more than one person to do it for you:
Now, many hours are spent for animation as well, but new animation tech can provide natural animations without lot of time and money spent on actors and settings, not to mention animals which is the hardest:
You don't need to bake lighting anymore with UE5 at least with Lumen:
Lumen is a fully dynamic global illumination solution that immediately reacts to scene and light changes. The system renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in huge, detailed environments, at scales ranging from kilometers to millimeters. Artists and designers can create more dynamic scenes using Lumen, for example, changing the sun angle for time of day, turning on a flashlight, or blowing a hole in the ceiling, and indirect lighting will adapt accordingly. Lumen erases the need to wait for lightmap bakes to finish and to author light map UVs—a huge time savings when an artist can move a light inside the Unreal Editor and lighting looks the same as when the game is run on console.
A first look at Unreal Engine 5
Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.
World design:
Nanite virtualized micropolygon geometry frees artists to create as much geometric detail as the eye can see. Nanite virtualized geometry means that film-quality source art comprising hundreds of millions or billions of polygons can be imported directly into Unreal Engine—anything from ZBrush sculpts to photogrammetry scans to CAD data—and it just works. Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time so there are no more polygon count budgets, polygon memory budgets, or draw count budgets; there is no need to bake details to normal maps or manually author LODs; and there is no loss in quality.
A first look at Unreal Engine 5
Get a glimpse of new and improved real-time rendering features currently in development.
And:
In a recent interview, Lost Wing developer Tim Ash of BoxFrog Games discusses how the PlayStation 5 will improve and quicken the development process.
PS5 CPU Will Make Development Time Faster
In a recent interview, Lost Wing developer Tim Ash of BoxFrog Games discusses how the PlayStation 5 will improve and quicken the development process.
Now something is specific to PS5:
The developers are saying PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they have ever coded on to reach its peak performance. Software-wise, coding for PS5 is extremely simple and has so many abilities that make the [developers] so free. In total, I can say PS5 is a better console.
PS5 is 'a better console' says Crytek engineer, simpler to develop for
A Crytek rendering engineer believes the PS5 is the ‘better’ console compared to the Xbox Series X and is much simpler to make games for.
==========
So, accordingly, I think half the time is possible, a personal opinion that I hope it doesn't offend anyone here.
Don't forget what Cerny said about PS5's time to triangle being even smaller than PS4's.
saintjules
Member
So COD WWII is the PS+ free game for the month of June, but they're giving it out tomorrow instead of on June 2nd...Hmm I wonder what's happening next Tuesday
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thurnishaleygw
Member
Well, that got hot for a minute.
Now, on a serious note, given that the first thing we've known about an engine designed around next-gen capabilities is that it reduces workload significantly, it's definitely not a wild guess to say that games might very well be built quicker. In half the time? Well, we obviously don't know that, but it's a perfectly valid opinion. An opinion, not a narrative.
Now, on a serious note, given that the first thing we've known about an engine designed around next-gen capabilities is that it reduces workload significantly, it's definitely not a wild guess to say that games might very well be built quicker. In half the time? Well, we obviously don't know that, but it's a perfectly valid opinion. An opinion, not a narrative.
ANIMAL1975
Member
He was the best of usTommy was my boy
Well Tommy boy gave the XSX gpu exact specs...
I miss R600Just relax I'm not your enemy here.
I'm just saying that your not really trying to do anything bad here. You are just participating in speculation like most of us are.
I was just tellingTBiddy that your not here to do any damage like Tim Dog, R600, FCRC, TFlivesmatters, rightisright, Meirl etc..
FranXico
Member
It's possible he returned
.
Ptarmiganx2
Member
If we get mid-gen refreshes with 2x performance I'd be a happy man! Day one for me! I will engage in the wild speculation all over again it was fun! At first I was let down by the tflop metric, but now I'm more excited than ever by the new approach! Plus if Sony went with a standard approach, this thread would have been dead 6 weeks ago! We needed this as a distraction from the pandemic.
We were reaching the point of diminishing returns with graphics and realism. We needed something to drive the industry forward...I think Cerny might save the entire industry from stagnation...
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TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I was thinking about the Next-Gen console abilities and it just clicked how perfect Silent Hill's world would be in these consoles.
We know Homecoming did the famous World change from the movie
And others have done the transformation of worlds
But I think these new consoles will blow us away with how more impressive those transformations will be and on what scale.
What you guys think?
We know Homecoming did the famous World change from the movie
And others have done the transformation of worlds
But I think these new consoles will blow us away with how more impressive those transformations will be and on what scale.
What you guys think?
Neo Blaster
Member
So COD WWII is the PS+ free game for the month of June, but they're giving it out tomorrow instead of on June 2nd...Hmm I wonder what's happening next Tuesday
Vaztu
Member
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Have there been any leaks/rumors of Resogun 2 being in development, at any point? I would LOVE another Resogun. First game launched with PS4, right? Maybe makes sense for 2 to launch with PS5?
I agree certain games like horror will really benefit from these new consoles more than most. It will be cool to see the game worlds they come up with in 2-4 years after cross generation is done. Love to see another Alan wake game also.I was thinking about the Next-Gen console abilities and it just clicked how perfect Silent Hill's world would be in these consoles.
We know Homecoming did the famous World change from the movie
And others have done the transformation of worlds
But I think these new consoles will blow us away with how more impressive those transformations will be and on what scale.
What you guys think?
Metroiddarks
Member
Time to triangle is just the time to learn to use or even do normally in a the API in order to draw a triangle,
for example usually a low level API like vulkan require more time o do that than for example OpenGL, I remember
the time when I thought this was low level API.
In case any wants to know more about some APIs:
https://alain.xyz/blog/comparison-of-modern-graphics-apis
Bu if you where guys I will not assign a percentage to say how faster is now make a game, a couple of thoughts of this will be:
-The SSD will improve flow of work of artists and devs in many aereas
-But that also means both will be more ambitious than before (as always in each new generation)
-Even when are new consoles these preserve many of the "features" than the last console
-The most popular engines will be ready for most of the projects reach a big percentage of its potential
-RT is a new big feature but will need time to reach level of fidelity and performance the studios
-Have finally a separate audio chip is good but also require time reach it potential but now they just can give this to
audio engineer without worry if he use many of the power of the CPU
-The last CPUs were a headache since the beginning now we far of that
-With the use of Primitive Shader and Mesh Shaders we have a similar situation than we have with RT
-New control or the variations of the same specially in PS5 require time to learn the "best way to use"
-The possible use of the machine learning in the reconstruction techniques also some people are not fans this IA change
the visual result of his game without have many control
-UE 5 using Nanite is just the first big example of the new gen of engines so in the beginning many of the studios will reuse many of its
old engines with a couple change for its first games (RE engine) or even some of the first party possible where rebuild with this new
features in mind (Decima engine)
-Covid affects the plans of all companies in very differents ways and grades
So have to many factors to just say a number I think we all agree the same game is faster to do it in the new consoles than the old ones but for now that is all.
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xacto
Member
thurnishaleygw
Member
Neo Blaster
Member
Please, Sony, can you finish it with 'oh, I almost forgot, PS5 event will be June XXth'.
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Neo Blaster
Member
.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Amazing example, that's why more priority levels helps with game design and logic complexity to work in parallel instead of waiting in queues.
Metroiddarks
Member
T-Cake
Member
But why six? Can anyone provide some examples as to what data might constitute each of the six priority levels?
kensama
Member
Je sais même plus si on doit en rire ou avoir pitié? Et si c'est un fanboy Xbox sérieux ou un troll Sony.
Je sais pas si t'as remarqué aussi que souvent ceux qui demandent un systéme GP chez Sony sont des fanboys Microsoft?
Translate:
Don't know if we should laugh or have pity? And don't know if a serious MS fanboy or a Sony fanboy troll?
Don't know if you see that most of time, people that want a gamepass like for Sony are MS fanboy that don't want to buy a Sony console?
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xacto
Member
And that's why we hate airports...
xacto
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Here, already posted it, Mark Cerny gives one example of such scenario that you might need those extra ones, not to mention more complex scenarios. Things like lip synchronization that open world games suffer from could be solved as well with going on in the background:
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Neo Blaster
Member
'And no, there won't be any PS5 news or updates in this episode, just a deep dive into the world of The Last of Us Part II.'
Damn. If they are showing TLOU2 this week, what are the chances we get a PS5 event announcement?
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