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NHL March 2016 |OT| It's not tanking, it's losing with style

I

imBask

Banned
DopeyFish said:
lol at the comments

i keep trying to tell people that understanding the defense is the toughest thing out there because everybody looks for and remembers the final part of a long sequence of events. Good players eliminate the play early in the sequence and people don't know how to pick up on it. They just remember the moments leading up to a goal... looking for a big play... defense isn't about big plays, it's about suffocation.
Click to expand...


Just read that Subban is going to be fine, I watched the hit and the theatrical way he separately tossed his gloves 30 feet while doing a death roll, it's remarkable he wasn't critically hurt. It reminded me of old movies where the women always over acted their part. I'm just glad he is OK.
Click to expand...

the "confused old person who posted on the wrong article" is always my favorite
 
D

dr.rocktopus

Banned
zroid said:
this is a pretty intriguing article on Marincin by Steve Burtch http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/martin-marincin-top-pair-defenceman-leafs/

takes a bit of a unique analytical approach that tries to measure whether he actually makes a lot of bad plays which lead to "highlight reel" goals (as people believe), or whether it's just confirmation bias
Click to expand...

this reminded me about the Shea Weber talk when he was announced for Team Canada for the World Cup, although that was from the other direction. On that note since I'm admittedly not very familiar with him outside of the Olympics I wanted to understand the criticism against him and found this http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-w...advanced-stats-make-shea-weber-better-player/. Which does make a case for and against him which is nice. And explains it for people unfamiliar like me - his style of play can suppress but not generate.

DopeyFish said:
i keep trying to tell people that understanding the defense is the toughest thing out there because everybody looks for and remembers the final part of a long sequence of events. Good players eliminate the play early in the sequence and people don't know how to pick up on it. They just remember the moments leading up to a goal... looking for a big play... defense isn't about big plays, it's about suffocation.
Click to expand...

also this really nails it. It's like when people say Gardiner is bad because he has brain farts every once in a while. But most of the time you see him, he breaking up the play before it even has a chance to be a dangerous chance.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
zroid said:
this is a pretty intriguing article on Marincin by Steve Burtch http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/martin-marincin-top-pair-defenceman-leafs/

takes a bit of a unique analytical approach that tries to measure whether he actually makes a lot of bad plays which lead to "highlight reel" goals (as people believe), or whether it's just confirmation bias
Click to expand...
The lengths people are going to to try and illustrate that he's not a bad defenseman, makes me think he's a bad defenseman.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Cake Boss said:
Only in Toronto will a national sports article be on a fringe NHL dman.
Click to expand...

otp.jpg_zpsppv7y7u8.png~original


this is primarily on the oilers, too... THE OILERS

the reason why this is important... is the Leafs have 3 near NHL ready prospects but nothing after that. If marincin maintains this play and Loov/Valiev or Percy turn into good D... this is going to be a very very quick rebuild once talent starts stacking on the forwards... and we've got Brown/Kapanen/Marner/1st all possibly coming in. and we may or may not have the inside track on zaitsev.

it effectively means the Leafs major weakness at this point onwards may actually be goal.

imagine if all the problems with the leafs this year were summed up as inability to score, bernier, hunwick/polak/phaneuf
 
E

ElephantShell

Banned
The great thing about Marincin is we acquired him for practically nothing so if he ends up being a legit player then great, if not then it's no harm done.
 
C

Cake Boss

Banned
DopeyFish said:
otp.jpg_zpsppv7y7u8.png~original


this is primarily on the oilers, too... THE OILERS

the reason why this is important... is the Leafs have 3 near NHL ready prospects but nothing after that. If marincin maintains this play and Loov/Valiev or Percy turn into good D... this is going to be a very very quick rebuild once talent starts stacking on the forwards... and we've got Brown/Kapanen/Marner/1st all possibly coming in. and we may or may not have the inside track on zaitsev.

it effectively means the Leafs major weakness at this point onwards may actually be goal.

imagine if all the problems with the leafs this year were summed up as inability to score, bernier, hunwick/polak/phaneuf
Click to expand...

Means shit, according to that Weirdick is a first pairing franchise dman.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
Red_Man said:
The lengths people are going to to try and illustrate that he's not a bad defenseman, makes me think he's a bad defenseman.
Click to expand...

*shrug*

plenty of mainstream folks have been opining that he isn't an NHLer. i don't think it's that weird the analytically inclined people would openly disagree.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
zroid said:
*shrug*

plenty of mainstream folks have been opining that he isn't an NHLer. i don't think it's that weird the analytically inclined people would openly disagree.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt he's more talented then typical hockey media gives him credit for, but analytic guys seem to be really trying to turn him into something he's not a la Dopey.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
DopeyFish said:
Just looked at all the habs D stats, marincin is wedged inbetween markov and subban strictly defensively speaking

All the others are just bad...
Click to expand...
And Ho-Sang is still going to be a generational talent, whatever you say Dopey Button.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
dr.rocktopus said:
this reminded me about the Shea Weber talk when he was announced for Team Canada for the World Cup, although that was from the other direction. On that note since I'm admittedly not very familiar with him outside of the Olympics I wanted to understand the criticism against him and found this http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-w...advanced-stats-make-shea-weber-better-player/. Which does make a case for and against him which is nice. And explains it for people unfamiliar like me - his style of play can suppress but not generate.



also this really nails it. It's like when people say Gardiner is bad because he has brain farts every once in a while. But most of the time you see him, he breaking up the play before it even has a chance to be a dangerous chance.
Click to expand...

I read that article a couple weeks ago, it's interesting. The thing about Weber is he used to be genuinely really good about 5 years ago. I think the belief that he is still an elite D-man is a combination of people seeing him do those things addressed in the article well, and a failure to see that he's declined in a lot of other important areas.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
zroid said:
I read that article a couple weeks ago, it's interesting. The thing about Weber is he used to be genuinely really good about 5 years ago. I think the belief that he is still an elite D-man is a combination of people seeing him do those things addressed in the article well, and a failure to see that he's declined in a lot of other important areas.
Click to expand...

While i hate corsi... because it doesn't give any true offensive information in the sense of scoring ability, it gives fantastic defensive information. Simply because defense is supposed to eliminate shots, and by proxy eliminate goals.

High TOI coupled with positive corsi and very low GA60 is what teams need to be looking for.

It's amazing how much some players are paid to do all the wrong things.
 
M

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
If the playoffs started today:

Red Wings @ Capitals
Rangers @ Islanders
Penguins @ Panthers
Lightning @ Bruins

Wild @ Stars
Blackhawks @ Blues
Predators @ Kings
Sharks @ Ducks


Battle of New York seems increasingly inevitable. Just a matter of who gets home ice.
Even though the Rangers will have home ice either way, mwahahaha!
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
I'll take the win because we didn't play like shit in the first

Still feel like they need to put Ovi and Kuzy back together, though.
 
C

Clydefrog

Member
MetatronM said:
If the playoffs started today:

Red Wings @ Capitals
Rangers @ Islanders
Penguins @ Panthers
Lightning @ Bruins

Wild @ Stars
Blackhawks @ Blues
Predators @ Kings
Sharks @ Ducks


Battle of New York seems increasingly inevitable. Just a matter of who gets home ice.
Even though the Rangers will have home ice either way, mwahahaha!
Click to expand...

all the usual suspects

except Panthers

Philly pls
 
K

KingBroly

Banned
If the Capitals get 6 more points they clinch home ice throughout the East Playoffs
If the Capitals get 8 more points they clinch the President's Trophy for the 2nd time in Team History
 
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