NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread

Oh yeah, at least 2b and 9s have a somewhat happy ending and each theoretically have the same lifespan.

Emil straight up cloned himself into insanity for 10000 years because he can't help but outlive his friends lol.
 
My interpretation was that Emil's downfall came about because he willingly decided he didn't need his memories to fight the aliens. He willingly forgot his friends and his reason for fighting in the first place (once again reinforcing that as a key theme for almost every character in both Niers), which was why the world became meaningless and eternity became intolerable.

But don't all the Emil clones come back to life anyway, according to his weapon story?

uceenk said:
i always love if story doesn't put antagonist as straight evil, if only replicant doesn't have consciousness, a plan to save humanity could be successful

this story in original Nier is so fucked up, now i'm more interested in that than in automata
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The most twisted part of this for me was that Weiss knew exactly what he was doing in the end, and he still did it.

There's no way to know exactly what he was thinking. Standing on the side of your friends... only to doom them to slowly go extinct while being unable to understand what went wrong?
 
Antiwhippy said:
I always assumed that it's just the machine network taking over the android's body. That's why they could talk through them and also how A2 can destroy the machine network by hacking 9S.

As for why it's so effective, I assume they always have to secure a connection, but if you want to ask me how the connection is made... anime bullshit I guess. :P But they always had a connection to the bunker, they just never acted out till yorha started going full on war mode because they had more fun observing them.
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Yeah I'm super confused now. Initially I thought it is the same Yorha self-destruct backdoor but now it seems like the machine network was just sandbagging the whole time.

Also what killed the human? Project Gestalt failure or the aliens?

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh
 
Renekton said:
Yeah I'm super confused now. Initially I thought it is the same Yorha self-destruct backdoor but now it seems like the machine network was just sandbagging the whole time.

Also what killed the human? Project Gestalt failure or the aliens?

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh
Click to expand...

I would think the machine network hacked in through the backdoor in the first place? So they could have infected all the YoRHa backups at any time.

But they didn't, because the machine network was deliberately gimping itself. Even after destroying the Bunker it would presumably have found a way to avoid winning the war.

The human race went extinct when Project Gestalt collapsed, long before the aliens even showed up. Notice during Emil's Memories how Emil doesn't answer 9S's question about whether Emil meant humans when he said "people".
 
Renekton said:
Yeah I'm super confused now. Initially I thought it is the same Yorha self-destruct backdoor but now it seems like the machine network was just sandbagging the whole time.

Also what killed the human? Project Gestalt failure or the aliens?

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh
Click to expand...

I mean in a way it's kinda more perverse that the machine network pretty much had the upper hand the whole time but wouldn't pull the trigger because they don't actually want to defeat the androids,

Also yeah, project gestalt killed the humans. The aliens actually invaded long after that, which speaks about how dumb they were that they lost to a long extinct race. The androids used them as a way to try to convince themselves that they still had a purpose, but that didn't prove to be enough. and so project yorha was made.
 
Antiwhippy said:
I mean in a way it's kinda more perverse that the machine network pretty much had the upper hand the whole time but wouldn't pull the trigger because they don't actually want to defeat the androids,
Click to expand...

Better yet, despite what the game says, it's not actually a logical paradox in the hackneyed Star Trek sense. It's actually yet another reflection of the main theme - wanting to have something to fight for.

Another angle on this is that the machines were afraid of putting themselves out of a job by being too efficient, so they started creating busywork. Subtle commentary on robots taking all our jobs? What if the robots learned to be afraid for their own jobs?
 
So after rewatching a decent chunk of the game, I started wondering if 9S hating A2 for killing 2B could have more than one meaning. There's the obvious one of A2 killing the android he loved even though he knew she was about to die from the logic virus anyway, but I did think of another.

Could 9S also hate A2 because she took away his last chance to kill 2B?

I know some supplementary materials talked about how 2B killed 9S countless times without his consent before the start of the game's events, and I also read that 9S trained himself to fight with weapons so he could kill 2B. Since 9S figured out what was going on with 2B at some point despite the mindwipes, he could still hold some resentment towards her. I don't necessarily mean he actively wanted to kill her during the course of the game, but that he might have had a buried subconscious desire for it because of how much she made him suffer.

Adam's line to 9S in Playthrough B could be interpreted as both "You're thinking about how much you want to fuck 2B, aren't you?" and "You're thinking about how much you want to kill 2B, aren't you?"

There are also the lines in Jackass' Research about androids' pleasure centers being tied to combat, with the possibility that their sensations during combat are linked to the feeling of love.

Even though the boss fight in the Soul Box takes place after 9S starts to go off the deep end, it seems to take on another meaning when you know 2B's role in YoRHa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cdVnTSdsz0

It shows 2B threatening to erase 9S' memories like she has countless times before, and it ends with him killing her to protect his memories.

There's also 9S' behavior in the Tower when he runs into all the 2B models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vatFtgAXK4

He says he's genuinely happy to see them before gleefully shouting he'll kill all of them.

One last reason 9S might have wanted to kill A2 is that she took on 2B's mantle by cutting her hair, accepting her sword, accepting her pod, and absorbing her memories. If 9S couldn't kill the real 2B anymore, killing A2 might have been "the next best option" in his eyes.

None of this is to say that 9S didn't love 2B, but he also might have felt some underlying need to make her feel the same way he felt whenever she killed him.

Considering how many months the game has been out, I'm guessing this idea has been thrown around at some point or another. Then again, I could just be over-analyzing the story and picking on details that aren't actually present.
 
Hmm maybe it depends when 9S knew about the 2E thing.

edit1: My own interpretation is that he was suffering survivor's guilt due to the fate of all the previous 9s'.

edit2: Superbunnyhop thinks 9s' sexual lust for the girl androids was converted into bloodlust.
 
Renekton said:
Hmm maybe it depends when 9S knew about the 2E thing.
Click to expand...
I got the impression that he found out at some point by doing some digging like usual. At the latest, he might have found out for sure at the end of the Soul Box.

9S could have been hesitant to tell 2B about humanity's extinction because he was afraid of losing his memories again, but that's more of a guess on my part.
 
Finally completed it yesterday,this game reminds me of digital devil saga because they end up killing everyone and leaving me depressed for hours.
So,which endings are worth checking? I know there are 26 but i'm not interested in the filler ones for now(like 9S leaving forever or W ending,that sort of thing).
I want to know which endings add something more substancial to the story/lore,besides E of course.

Antiwhippy said:
None really.

One of them is related to the optional boss but it's still kinda a joke ending.
Click to expand...

Oh,that's a little dissapointing.
Thanks.
 
Wrapped up endings C, D and E yesterday. I haven't played a Yoko Taro game before, so I imagine I could only pick up on the surface detail, but man.

I'd say that one of my biggest fears in life is ending up with dementia. I've had to deal with a lot of stress and overload in the past decade that has taken a noticeable toll on my ability to remember things. I forget names and faces in a way that I never did before, some of my extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles) are just gone at this point. Worse still is that I notice it happening, which has made me consider if not knowing I used to remember things better would be sweet release. If I ended up with severe dementia, would not being able to recognise the people I love be blissful ignorance of the problem, or would it be a fate worse than death? It's a situation I hate to think about.

I haven't read any spoiler-filled assessments of the game's themes yet, so I might be off-base, but NieR: Automata, to me, is a game about this question. It's a game about memory, and specifically, its degradation and loss. From the very opening, it's clear that 2B and 9S place the utmost value in their memories. Their bodies are disposable, and it's the memories that define them. The A ending highlights this further by having 9S transfer his memories to the machine network and become one of them. He's still 9S, but he's no longer a 9S. But this also means that the loss of memories is the loss of the person.

The Wandering Couple sidequest ends with a dark revelation. In a pseudo-suicide pact, they agree to both be wiped clean to forget all their hardships and live in ignorance, but trusting to fate that they will again fall in love and be together. The husband goes first, but the wife refrains, revealing they'd been through this many times before, and that she always clears his memories while retaining her own, because he's easier to manage when he can't remember the bad times.

In the C playthrough, Pascal sees his village destroyed and all the children kill themselves. He asks you to either make him forget or kill him, to rid him of the heartache. While on the surface this seemed like a simple request to make the pain stop, the deeper question is really "is it better to lose all your memories than it is to die?". For me, this was a rough choice. Yes, Pascal is better off without the trauma, but is he better off without his good memories? Is he still even Pascal after that? I don't know, but I wiped him because I selfishly didn't have the heart to let him go. Later, I found him stood among the corpses of his dead friends, blissfully unaware, and selling off the children's cores for a quick buck. He was happy, but he couldn't remember anyone he cared for. I was crushed.

When the endings rolled around, it hammered home the futility of YoRHa's existence. Reliving the same things over and over while getting your memories erased at the end each time. Everything ultimately being meaningless, and that final gut-punch comes where I find myself asking "what is the point in life if you can't remember it?"

And then the game turns into an arcade shooter. A distraction. A toy that explodes with sound and light to entertain. Forget that existential question, here's a game to play to make you have fun. That's why you're here, right? That's what you've been doing these past 30 hours? Look at all these encouraging messages! You can do it! You're enjoying yourself now. Isn't that all that matters?

I deleted my save.
 
Jintor said:
you deleted the save, but you didn't delete your memories dawg

wasn't it still worth it, in the end?
Click to expand...

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I loved every minute of it.

But I will forget what happened with time. Hell, one day I might even forget the game exists.
 
I stole the truth from Yorha.

AR9hAzH.jpg
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It was all a whirlwind.
 
I find it interesting that in hindsight both Nier games have this strong thread about the inevitability of the evolution of consciousness and its role in the rise and fall of "nations".

In Nier, the Replicants gaining sapience beyond the project plan is the real root of its collapse and the extinction of the human race. The rise of the machine lifeforms and their evolution in Automata's lore seals the alien's face. Lastly we see In the main plot of Automata the Pods' evolution being effectively the trigger that ends the Android/Machine Network deadlock.

There's something fundamentally affirming and positive for me in this stubborn seam of "life will find a way" in Yoko's fiction. It also brings to mind how natural it is for the final machine story (in the DLC) being that of Plato 1728, given its namesake philosopher being the originator of the legend/allegory of Atlantis.
 
More Taro talk, pretty brief though:

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/spoiler-interview-nier-automata-director-yoko-taro

EDIT:

Another one: https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/does-the-designer-behind-nier-automata-believe-in-god

Found this amusing:

Of all the characters in Automata, Pascal is the one I can't stop thinking about. I wanted to touch on two parts of that character. One, was there a specific reason Pascal identifies as a male, but was voiced by a woman? Two, the end of Pascal's arc involves discovering the village's children have killed themselves, a response to Pascal's teaching of fear. When Pascal requests you to delete his memories, and you do it for him, you later find him selling the cores of the children he loved. Why give Pascal such a cruel, if ironic, ending?

I selected a female voice actor because one of the settings for Pascal is that he "chose a voice that would soothe children." However, in actuality, it was because Taura-san [Takahisa Taura], the game designer at PlatinumGames who created Automata with me, declared, "I will not work if you do not use the voice actress, Aoi Yuuki."

Also, I don't want to explain why things happened the way it did for Pascal and the meaning behind it all because I would like the people that played the game to think about it.
Click to expand...
 
It's funny to me every single time when people think you have to delete Pascal's memories, or don't realize you can actually just leave.
 
To be fair most gamers got taught that the only choice you have are the ones presented to you.

I love how he plays on player expectations like that.
 
charlequin said:
It's funny to me every single time when people think you have to delete Pascal's memories, or don't realize you can actually just leave.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's a game that sometimes lets you rebel and sometimes doesn't. Like, you couldn't just choose to not attack Adam (probably the biggest directorial oversight in the game), which was something people actually tried.

Also people generally do what they are explicitly told to do or told not to do, which is why everybody got the ending for removing the OS chip and nobody got the endings for leaving this fight, leaving that fight, leaving the other fight, etc.
 
Remembrance said:
To be fair, it's a game that sometimes lets you rebel and sometimes doesn't. Like, you couldn't just choose to not attack Adam (probably the biggest directorial oversight in the game), which was something people actually tried.

Also people generally do what they are explicitly told to do or told not to do, which is why everybody got the ending for removing the OS chip and nobody got the endings for leaving this fight, leaving that fight, leaving the other fight, etc.
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Funny, i got almost all endings of not going to x fight because i got lost :|
But yeah, the pascal one is though... i don't really think i could leave him there though...
Does anyone knows what happens when you just leave? Can you find him later?
 
Zero Kyori said:
So I heard Kyle mccarley and Kira read the automata concert reading. Is this true?
Click to expand...

Yup. Can be viewed retroactively here.

Mariip said:
Funny, i got almost all endings of not going to x fight because i got lost :|
But yeah, the pascal one is though... i don't really think i could leave him there though...
Does anyone knows what happens when you just leave? Can you find him later?
Click to expand...

If you leave Pascal, he just disappears. Players have searched, and he can't be found anywhere. If you erase his memories, there's a scene of him at the end, but when you leave him, there's no one there.

But the official timeline reveals that if you just leave Pascal, Pascal lives on and learns from his experiences to create an official peace treaty between machine lifeforms and the androids, leading to 500 years of peace. So the worst option is secretly the best one.
 
avrophantasm said:
If you leave Pascal, he just disappears. Players have searched, and he can't be found anywhere. If you erase his memories, there's a scene of him at the end, but when you leave him, there's no one there.

But the official timeline reveals that if you just leave Pascal, Pascal lives on and learns from his experiences to create an official peace treaty between machine lifeforms and the androids, leading to 500 years of peace. So the worst option is secretly the best one.
Click to expand...

The thing is, I saw a different translation of the timeline that changes the whole meaning with just a couple of words.
It only mentions that Pascal used to be part of the group that signed the treaty.
http://i.imgur.com/aYfrp4n.png

But at least that means there were other survivors...
 
charlequin said:
It's funny to me every single time when people think you have to delete Pascal's memories, or don't realize you can actually just leave.
Click to expand...

I tried, the game made A2 walk back and Pascal said "you can't do this to me, A2". If they didn't take the controller away from me, I wouldn't think that.

It's not like people are just not even considering the possibility, you have to insist after the game tells you that you can't.
 
Remembrance said:
The thing is, I saw a different translation of the timeline that changes the whole meaning with just a couple of words.
It only mentions that Pascal used to be part of the group that signed the treaty.
http://i.imgur.com/aYfrp4n.png

But at least that means there were other survivors...
Click to expand...

Those couple of words do change everything.

Pascal:
guess-ill-just-die.jpg


Unless he formed the group after the game ended and just left for some reason. (I still have hope!)
 
avrophantasm said:
Yup. Can be viewed retroactively here.



If you leave Pascal, he just disappears. Players have searched, and he can't be found anywhere. If you erase his memories, there's a scene of him at the end, but when you leave him, there's no one there.

But the official timeline reveals that if you just leave Pascal, Pascal lives on and learns from his experiences to create an official peace treaty between machine lifeforms and the androids, leading to 500 years of peace. So the worst option is secretly the best one.
Click to expand...
I feel pretty bad for erasing his memories now
Not that the shop wasn't usefu...damn getting the 26 ending trophy made me kinda broken inside

Though its easier killing friendly machines when you know all of them will die(except for the hikikomori machine that you can kill anyway)
I kinda wish he went full undertale so i could feel really bad for doing that
 
Couple questions regarding route C:

- How did 9S receive the virus if he was desync'd from the Bunker server that was affected? There is the time in route A/B which he avoided due to uploading his data via the machines' network or somesuch but he also appears to contract it in route C (at least based on the red eyes and seeming deterioration which required self-hacking in the tower). Read a post on Gamefaqs that suggested it was the model 2B arm he attached but is that actually the cause?

- This comment states you can find a message from 2B to 9S in her flight unit within the Flooded City during route C but after going back I can't locate any such unit. Am I in the wrong chapter to discover this or is the comment incorrect?
 
Coreda said:
Couple questions regarding route C:

- How did 9S receive the virus if he was desync'd from the Bunker server that was affected? There is the time in route A/B which he avoided due to uploading his data via the machines' network or somesuch but he also appears to contract it in route C (at least based on the red eyes and seeming deterioration which required self-hacking in the tower). Read a post on Gamefaqs that suggested it was the model 2B arm he attached but is that actually the cause?
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it's the arm that does the trick.

- This comment states you can find a message from 2B to 9S in her flight unit within the Flooded City during route C but after going back I can't locate any such unit. Am I in the wrong chapter to discover this or is the comment incorrect?
Click to expand...

Route C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2DylD45pq8
 
LotusHD said:
Route C: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2DylD45pq8
Click to expand...

Ah, had forgotten that's where she landed. Thanks.

Remembrance said:
To be fair, it's a game that sometimes lets you rebel and sometimes doesn't. Like, you couldn't just choose to not attack Adam (probably the biggest directorial oversight in the game), which was something people actually tried.
Click to expand...

Mmm, the game doesn't allow you walk away from various other enemy encounters. I tried not fighting like two or three things and it wouldn't do anything so I was forced to fight, so naturally players can come to assume the game will limit the other choices in that regard (or frankly not care and just go with the flow the narrative is heading toward).

It reminds me of when reading criticisms of quest markers and objectives as being too hand-holdy, yet a game mightn't allow for the type of freedom a player might test. See that obvious gap in the wall? Can't travel through it, but here's one you can. That object you can't interact with when you could with a similar kind earlier? It's that type of thing which can leads players to just not bother experimenting with other gameplay elements when the game suddenly allows them to in specific scenarios. Or things like locations being poorly communicated which leads to time wasted and where those HUD elements are useful (I mean, they can also be disabled for most games too so it's still optional). Kind of off-topic but was brewing over it while looking at posts in a different thread actually.

I think Nier: Automata is linear/small enough with its world and main story points that it's easier to experiment with different things though, which I appreciated. Also makes it simpler to traverse and find things.
 
Late to the party, but I was not expecting Yoko Taro to expand on 2B and 9S' fate after ending E with that 5th recital script. God bless the mad man. Even better with the original voice actors, no less! Definitely need to play the game in English before I check out the equivalent English videos, though.

Damn, I feel like I'm on cloud 9 right now.
 
I only just found all the Emil heads in the desert. Cool thing to stumble upon. A second play through of the game is very rewarding. There's so much detail that you miss the first time around
 
I beat this yesterday and while I didn't like it nearly as much as the first Nier, I still liked it a lot. My biggest issues were with the dungeons/areas. Invisible walls, not a lot to explore, and I thought the overall world was very uninspiring. I enjoyed the charm of Nier more and the dungeons felt more Zelda-like to me, and it felt more RPGish. Combat was fun though. Music great as usual. And I liked the characters, although preferred Nier's.

The one thing I didn't know is how much this game tied directly into the lore of Drakengard. I know it's technically in the same series, as is the Nier, but I went back and read a lot of explanations of things in this game and a lot referred to Drakengard, and having read up on that, I know understand a lot of it more.
 
Is there any motivation lore-wise to fighting Emil? He explains copies of himself were once used as a weapon, and he also helped fight against the aliens. In this game though he's mostly just a rather cheerful, idiosyncratic curiosity.

Just an excuse for a super boss?
 
Coreda said:
Is there any motivation lore-wise to fighting Emil? He explains copies of himself were once used as a weapon, and he also helped fight against the aliens. In this game though he's mostly just a rather cheerful, idiosyncratic curiosity.

Just an excuse for a super boss?
Click to expand...

His clones have become destructively insane and are actually a threat to the planet
 
Coreda said:
Is there any motivation lore-wise to fighting Emil? He explains copies of himself were once used as a weapon, and he also helped fight against the aliens. In this game though he's mostly just a rather cheerful, idiosyncratic curiosity.

Just an excuse for a super boss?
Click to expand...
You already broke his spirit by robbing his home and beating the shit out of him. May as well put him out of his misery.
 
RubberLuffy said:
His clones have become destructively insane and are actually a threat to the planet
Click to expand...

This copy seems mostly harmless though, from what the game presents. At least while unprovoked.

KO Traveling Hobo said:
You already broke his spirit by robbing his home and beating the shit out of him. May as well put him out of his misery.
Click to expand...

You know, I had him down to around 20% health before he one shot me with 8k health. Couldn't have been a chain attack either since I'm using the anti-chain damage chip. Given I was only in combat for like five minutes was doing quite well for level 62! But yeah, like most things in the game there's some compromise. Thinking of seeing how it plays out before reverting to an earlier save.
 
Coreda said:
You know, I had him down to around 20% health before he one shot me with 8k health. Couldn't have been a chain attack either since I'm using the anti-chain damage chip. Given I was only in combat for like five minutes was doing quite well for level 62! But yeah, like most things in the game there's some compromise. Thinking of seeing how it plays out before reverting to an earlier save.
Click to expand...

You have to finish the fight before that charge attack goes off, or else you die regardless of level.

Once the music starts, it's basically a countdown.
 
Remembrance said:
You have to finish the fight before that charge attack goes off, or else you die regardless of level.

Once the music starts, it's basically a countdown.
Click to expand...

Apparently it must haved bugged out for me the second time. He was down to like 5-8% health, some circular ground charge went off and then... he completely stopped reacting or attacking. Hacking wasn't possible either from this point so I was left chipping away at his HP until finally the defeat dialog appeared. Captured some clips of it, here's one (which definitely looks somewhat sinister tbh):

https://my.mixtape.moe/jririp.mp4

Seeing Emil just taking all the damage like that for like 10+ minutes was something.
 
Coreda said:
Apparently it must haved bugged out for me the second time. He was down to like 5-8% health, some circular ground charge went off and then... he completely stopped reacting or attacking. Hacking wasn't possible either from this point so I was left chipping away at his HP until finally the defeat dialog appeared. Captured some clips of it, here's one (which definitely looks somewhat sinister tbh):

https://my.mixtape.moe/jririp.mp4

Seeing Emil just taking all the damage like that for like 10+ minutes was something.
Click to expand...

That's not the real superboss, the real one is for max upgrading all weapons. That's just Emil mad you stole from him, and you get a weapon for beating him.
 
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