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[Barry Burton]

This topic always comes up before every new Nintendo system launch, and its just as unrealistic a proposition now as its been for the last 15-20 years.

It isn't going to change until Nintendo does a 180 and drops the approach to third parties that they've always had. Philosophically, they are oil & water. Until there's evidence to suggest that this change is in the works, it's not really worth getting worked up about.

I fully expect to have beaten Half-Life 4 before we see Nintendo out there actively courting third-parties, and getting strong support in return.

 

[Rezae]

What do you think is the main problem for Nintendo to be misstreated by third parties like that?

I don't think any third parties are mistreating Nintendo. It's business. If they feel they can turn a good profit, they'll release for Nintendo systems. For the most part, gamers haven't bought many 3rd party titles on Nintendo platforms.

If anyone has been mistreated, it's the long history Nintendo has had towards 3rd parties, whether it's through licensing fees or one could argue to push their first party titles at 3rd party (and gamers) expense.

I love Nintendo, have bought every system since the NES, but it's a tired argument at this point. Gamers claim they want more 3rd party support (and then largely never buy 3rd party), and while I don't think that's a bad thing, it has to make business sense for everyone involved. If it does, it'll happen. If not, it won't, and we will have this same discussion 2 generations down the road still.

 

[BizzyBum]

First post, worst post?

Not really considering that's what many people do, IMO.

I'm a huge Nintendo fan, but you'd be crazy to just have the NX and nothing else.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Third parties don't care.

Nintendo had comparably powerful hardware with the Gamecube, but no userbase. Third parties published their software at the beginning of the console's lifespan but quickly tapered off as the system aged.

With the Wii, Nintendo had weaker hardware than the competition but an absolutely MASSIVE userbase. Third parties still didn't bother with the system outside of watered down ports, and minigame collections.

With the Wii U Nintendo had neither the power nor the userbase. What third parties existed bailed after six months.

Now the NX seems to be on the same track as the Wii U. Less powerful hardware and the same Wii U userbase...why would any third party waste their time with Nintendo?

 

[Oregano]

Yeah, CoD is possible eventually. If NX sells well out of the gate, I think EA's sports titles will likely return as well.

EA's a wildcard because I really don't know how badly that bridge got burnt. The rumours that they were trying to get Nintendo to use Origin seemed like BS but now Nintendo is teaming up with DeNA for network stuff which makes it slightly more believable.

Of course Disney might push EA to get Star Wars stuff on the platform.

 

[Ogodei]

That Nintendo isn't pursuing the archetypical "PS360" publisher is almost a dead horse on GAF, where the debate lies is between the camp that thinks this makes Nintendo permanently doomed to niche status, the camp that thinks Nintendo can go it alone, and the camp that thinks Nintendo can carve out an alternative market focused on the abandoned mid-tier developers, Japanese handheld games, and other stuff that the AAA market left behind that fits better with Nintendo's mantra anyway.

 

[Outrun]

maybeweshouldwaitfornintendotoactuallyannouncethedamnconsolebeforespeculatingwhetherornottheconsoleisviableforthirdpartygames

Until Nintendo starts communicating, you will need to put up with the speculation.

I don't think anything will change with the NX.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

EA's a wildcard because I really don't know how badly that bridge got burnt. The rumours that they were trying to get Nintendo to use Origin seemed like BS but now Nintendo is teaming up with DeNA for network stuff which makes it slightly more believable.

Of course Disney might push EA to get Star Wars stuff on the platform.

Plus EA has new leadership since the "unprecedented partnership" fell through.

 

[atbigelow]

I think looking at the rumors of UE4/Unity support, that Nintendo is going more for the indy market to fill the first party "game gap" vs. traditional third parties.

I am not sure what about UE4 support takes it to mean "not interested in large third parties." Making sure UE4 sings on the machine is crucial not just to have existing tools there, but as a showcase of capabilities.

 

[Flame Lord]

Well they make their consoles in non-traditional ways, which means more work to port games to it. It might be worth it if the consoles has ridiculous sales, but without having any third party support, I don't see that happening. And then you look at the Wii which did have ridiculous sales, but third party games still sold like shit on there from what I understand so even then they may not come back with anything more than those shitty shovelware games. I don't know if third parties would ever come back in force to a Nintendo console unless it was just a carbon copy of the competition so it would be easy to port stuff to it, but Nintendo clearly isn't interested in doing that so that's off the table.It kind of feels like they've dug themselves into a hole here.

 

[Peterthumpa]

You shouldn't be fine with it, because whenever a Nintendo platform is bought by people who buys it just to play Nintendo exclusives, that system fails hard. And that means big losses for Nintendo.

Well, I wouldn't call the 3DS a failure, and I'm damn sure that the third party games aren't the main reason for its success over the years.

 

[lord_of_flood]

Western third parties are long gone, unless Nintendo specifically chooses to publish and fund a Western third party exclusive. I highly doubt Nintendo is interested in participating in bidding wars over things like exclusive advertising rights and/or DLC like Sony and MS do with third parties, especially when the audience isn't there to justify said actions. If Nintendo is going to do anything with Western third parties, I imagine they'd rather just fund exclusive titles that would find a good audience on their platform.

Japanese third party support should be fine though, at least for the most part. No way Japanese third parties will abandon a Nintendo handheld unless it's a complete flop.

 

[georly]

Someone should do a poll on gaf.

Ask people who only own PS4 or XB1 (or even PC) what it would take to get them to:

1. Buy a nintendo console
2. Buy 3rd party on that console instead of ps4/xb1

I'd be curious about their answers.

 

[SporeCrawler]

NX will get support as 3DS will as it will be the 3DS successor. At least in japan

 

[Baleoce]

I can say that for Nintendo's consoles, but not their portables. I absolutely buy Nintendo handhelds for third-party games, and don't buy them for Nintendo games. (The two first-party 3DS games I care about are Style Savvy and Rhythm Heaven, and otherwise, meh for the most part.)

And, I'm willing to bet that's the same for plenty of other people out there. So with a lot of signs pointing to the NX being a console/handheld hybrid, one thing to do the job of two things, it does matter a hell of a lot to me how the third-party support will be.

Yeah I have to agree. Third party games on Nintendo handhelds has always been the highlight of those machines for me. So from a personal perspective, I definitely want third parties to thrive on this new machine, should it be the hybrid that everyone and their cat has rumoured.

 

[Red Frost]

The Wii had the second best third party game of last generation (Little King's Story).

Western third party support most likely isn't happening beyond shoddy ports, so it's whatever. However, Japanese third party support is all but guaranteed unless the entire market decides to bet on mobile. Considering the dire state of the console market over there and the lack of a Vita successor, NX will likely be the only viable non-mobile platform, meaning we very well may be getting the return of the SNES/PS2 as far as support goes. Personally, I'm super excited.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

First post, worst post?

They're not wrong.

 

[Santar]

Third parties will come if the NX becomes a success it's as easy as that.

 

[Allan Holdsworth]

If it ends up being a hybrid as rumored it will get support from Japanese companies. How much is unknown, with the mobile menace growing stronger and stronger.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Of the billion or so NX threads of speculation, haven't we already discussed third party support?

 

[True Fire]

Nintendo is never going to win over third parties. Their only solace is the fact that they're consolidating their handheld and home consoles, which will make their software output pretty outstanding.

They'll have the usual players like ATLUS and Square Enix putting out amazing exclusive RPGs. You just shouldn't expect any AAA multiplats. There's no way in hell Final Fantasy XV, for example, would be playable on NX if it's less powerful than the XB1.

 

[axisofweevils]

I would love the NX to have decent third party support, but I'm a realist and know that wouldn't happen without Nintendo paying way over the odds, or Sony / Microsoft hit with sudden bankruptcy.

We all saw how quickly EA went from....

Woo! Unprecedented partnership!!!! Imagine a game like Battlefield!!!!!!!!!!11111111
Releasing part 3 of Mass Effect without DLC when the entire trilogy was available with DLC on other consoles for less
Reacting badly when game didn't sell
Revealing that they'd already stopped all support of the console, even before they had evidence that the game destined to sell badly, did so

People are deeply entrenched in the PS4/XB1 ecosystem now. The NX could be 10x more powerful than the PS4... Nobody's going to buy one to play [insert Zero effort third party port with missing content] here, in the same way nobody bought a Wii U for Sniper Elite 2.. Or Batman.. Or Ass Creed... Or NFS Most Wanted........

On the other side of the coin, mascot platformers tend to do terribly on PS4/XB1.

 

[EhoaVash]

On Gamecube I had some 3rd party games but on both Wii u 3ds and Wii I have only first party games. I've seen the light and it's that Nintendo makes the best game across many genres.


Nintendo also publishes the most games out of any publishers in the industry, what their console /handhelds faced the most were droughts so they had to relie on 3rd parties in these times but those 3rd parties usually bailed them or their software was so bad that they weren't marketable.

I'm perfectly fine with nx having no 3rd parties if it means no drought from Nintendo themselves. With both their handheld team and console team working on 1 hardware, we could get a new game for every month of the year. Also I'm sure those niche Japanese games like monster hunter will stick around

 

[Theanine3D]

What do you think is the main problem for Nintendo to be misstreated by third parties like that?

You really shouldn't be looking at this in such a personal and emotional way. Companies expend as much effort as they feel they will be worth their time from a financial standpoint. If Nintendo hasn't created a compelling platform for them or fostered an audience that actually buys third party games, you can't expect third parties to bleed money all to make a few Nintendo fans happy. Everything related to how third parties treat Nintendo's platforms is strictly business, not some CEO sitting at his desk thinking "What can I do today to help kill off Nintendo?"

Here's what would happen if Nintendo got massive Western third party support at NX launch - no one would buy them. Except for you and a few other people who somehow don't have another machine for those games yet. And then the cycle would repeat, over and over. The third parties will always bail when no one buys their games, no matter how powerful the console is or how much they love working with Nintendo.They don't want to go out of business.

 

[Oregano]

Plus EA has new leadership since the "unprecedented partnership" fell through.

True.

As for other western thirds I'd only count on Ubisoft. Take Two might publish a game or two considering they're still releasing stuff on Vita and maybe THQ Nordic will throw some stuff NX's way but that's about it.

 

[TheDinoman]

Nintendo could probably build the biggest, meanest, most powerful third party friendly console in the world...and I feel like they still most likely wouldn't support it.

 

[DeuceGamer]

I don't expect the major AAA Third Party Western releases on NX. That said, it should have the best software support we've seen from a single Nintendo platform in quite some time.

With the full force of Nintendo's development studio's focusing on a single platform we should get more frequent First Party releases.

Japanese Third Parties typically provide some support to Nintendo Consoles and especially to Nintendo Handhelds and with it now seemingly being combined into a hybrid it should exceed the previous platforms Third Party Support from Japanese Developers.

I would assume Nintendo will still get Lego Games. Ubisoft will likely release at least some of their titles on NX (at least Just Dance).

That would already make it have a lot more software releases than Wii U and ensure there is a steady flow of software. Nintendo does need to make sure they get EA and 2K onboard for the annual Sports Franchises which are important to a lot of gamers but that seems reasonable if it sells relatively well.

 

[Retrobox]

If you have any internal information I would be glad to know and anyways I have the same right to express my opinion in an internet forum as you. I know that Reggie has been quite useless in NOA, or at least thats the general opinion, and Miyamoto has been helping franchises like Paper Mario go to hell, for example. And let's not talk about Star Fox Zero where he had a big role in design.

He also told the Splatoon devs that their original game plan wasn't good enough. They changed it and lo and behold Splatoon is a massive success and will be a Nintendo flagship franchise going forward.

Sorry you fell for the "Miyamoto ruins everything he touches" meme. Guy is a very valuable person to have around.

 

[AmFreak]

You really shouldn't be looking at this in such a personal and emotional way. Companies expend as much effort as they feel they will be worth their time from a financial standpoint. If Nintendo hasn't created a compelling platform for them or fostered an audience that actually buys third party games, you can't expect third parties to bleed money all to make a few Nintendo fans happy. Everything related to how third parties treat Nintendo's platforms is strictly business, not some CEO sitting at his desk thinking "What can I do today to help kill off Nintendo?"

Here's what would happen if Nintendo got massive Western third party support at NX launch - no one would buy them. Except for you and a few other people who somehow don't have another machine for those games yet. And then the cycle would repeat, over and over. The third parties will always bail when no one buys their games, no matter how powerful the console is or how much they love working with Nintendo.They don't want to go out of business.

This is the answer, again.

 

[timetokill]

If they combine their resources and put all their games on one platform, they honestly don't need the traditional third parties. Nintendo is an insanely prolific publisher and developer.

Between all of Nintendo's output on one platform, indies, and mobile publishers, they'll have plenty of software.

Besides, there's not really anything Nintendo could realistically do to attract the big third parties. They're not going to throw endless money at marketing deals, they're not going to get into a suicidal arms race on console tech, they're not going to promote third-party games over their own software. Sales alone don't matter or the Wii would've had all the third parties on board. Power alone doesn't matter because the N64 and GameCube were easily more powerful than their Sony competitors but they still got less support.

The only thing for Nintendo to do is pool their resources and continue to grow bigger so they can keep making more games in a variety of genres.

 

[Eccocid]

It will have gazillions of those gatcha mobile games support from Japan i guess.

 

[fhqwhgads]

So in one day I've seen both "Miyamoto/Reggie should be fired" and "The next Metroid should be Dark Souls". Nintendo threads sure are dumb.

 

[Arc Christelle]

While I think third parties are good and all.... I really felt like this gen really showed me one thing.

Third Parties have been

Spoiler

underwhelming lately.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

I'm ok this round with limited 3rd party support. I see NX as a supplemental system. I'm not getting one to be used as my primary system. I'm getting one purely to play nintendo games. I don't want to get my 3rd party games on it because I know getting it on PS/XB would be a better option for those games.

 

[wild wild rice]

Not so worried about third parties. I buy maybe 2-3 a year on PS4, tops, and I've traded in the majority of them. Just not digging where they're heading at the moment.

What I look forward to is the niche stuff Nintendo has a tendency to fund like Bayo 2, Wonderful 101, TMS, Sin & Punishment, etc. I want more of that. Especially since we don't see so much on PS/Xbone.

 

[TheDinoman]

While I think third parties are good and all.... I really felt like this gen really showed me one thing.

Third Parties have been

Spoiler

underwhelming lately.

To be honest...that's kinda true. I honestly don't find myself really caring about most of these AAA releases that come out these days. That's not to say all of them are bad, there are some interesting and fun looking games like Dark Souls and Doom, I'm just not interested in the yearly COD games or stuff like The Division, Titanfall or Watch_Dogs.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

People need to accept that there is more than one way to skin a cat. The videogame
market is not the same as it was 5-10-15 years ago. The part of the market that wants third party software is being served by MS, Sony and PCs right now. For this reason, whatever the NX is, it needs to be something that serves a different part of the market, something that is not currently being filled. I think the hints of Nintendo moving into a more unified software development system is a pretty good sign that they are going to try and support this thing themselves, and if the system is compelling enough, they can.

Pretty much. I for one would welcome a return to the 90s console race dichotomy where different consoles serve different parts of the market. I like my PS4 for what it is, but it's not serving my needs for local multiplayer, 2D/3D platformers, and more cartoony/arcade-y games. If NX does that at a reasonable price point, then I'm covered, between the two systems.

 

[Raiden1018]

I have my ps4 for that.
Also, NX is primarily a handheld, I don't expect a handheld to get all the console ports. I do think stuff like FIFA etc should come back.

"If you want to play third party games then we have a console for that. It's called playstation 4."

 

[Z3M0G]

When Nintendo has a run-away success platform, the 3rd parties will come swarming in to get in on the action. Not before.

It's as simple as that really...

There is no point in them jumping in now. But its in Nintendo's interest to reach out to 3rd parties and try to get them on board... some will say "sure", but still wait and see. They might commit some small profile ports or low risk projects unique to the platform's own unique gimmick(s).

But ultimately, if the platform does not success to grab an audience, then they won't come, or won't stay on board if they already jumped on.

 

[AGoodODST]

The chance of me ever buying a multi plat game on Nintendo are basically zero after the Wii U. Shitty ports, often late and missing features, sold for full price. Third parties have given me zero reason to ever bother.

On the other hand, I don't want to as I have a PS4 where the games would look better and at least be fully featured.

Nintendo systems are for Nintendo games for me. I guess the exception is exclusive third party games.

 

[EVH]

Generally this. Japanese studios who developed and published a lot of Vita titles won't have a new Sony handheld to jump to, so NX would be the logical platform to support. Monster Hunter, Sega, Namco, and such should support NX well.

Western developers is an entirely different matter. People like to say that had Nintendo made NX a PS4 Neo type console then it would get all the western support. In reality, that wouldn't happen. Western support from third-parties has been a challenge for Nintendo, and it likely will remain one when it comes to NX. Doesn't mean it won't ever see a major release, but I wouldn't count on GTA6 or Red Dead 3 appearing on NX, either.

Japanese third parties are usually on board and that is good, but to be honest in my case I'm not interested in Harem titty fighting games or Mecha shooters. I just think it would be great if Nintendo managed to get also GTA5 and games like that on board, basically. I don't really get why people is "ok" with this or simply doesn't care saying "I got a PS4 for that". Ok, but you got also 350 bucks less + game. When you could have it just for the price of the game.

I don't think any third parties are mistreating Nintendo. It's business. If they feel they can turn a good profit, they'll release for Nintendo systems. For the most part, gamers haven't bought many 3rd party titles on Nintendo platforms.

If anyone has been mistreated, it's the long history Nintendo has had towards 3rd parties, whether it's through licensing fees or one could argue to push their first party titles at 3rd party (and gamers) expense.

I love Nintendo, have bought every system since the NES, but it's a tired argument at this point. Gamers claim they want more 3rd party support (and then largely never buy 3rd party), and while I don't think that's a bad thing, it has to make business sense for everyone involved. If it does, it'll happen. If not, it won't, and we will have this same discussion 2 generations down the road still.

I think they are when one sees a bad Mass Effect port full priced when you can get at the same time, and in the other platforms one can get the whole series for that price in one package.

That Nintendo has mistreated the thirds is also totally true and maybe one of the reasons why they are just not caring about its platforms to start with, so this is something Nintendo should fix and that is what I try to discuss here.


I see lots of people saying something I explained in the first post: "I got my PS4/PC for that". Why would you pay for another console to get that game if you could have it in your current platform? Not everybody is able to buy two 300-400 buck consoles and mantain them.

 

[donny2112]

Edit:
Not worth the frustration, again.

 

[cafemomo]

Someone should do a poll on gaf.

Ask people who only own PS4 or XB1 (or even PC) what it would take to get them to:

1. Buy a nintendo console

I primarily game on the PS3 & Vita with the PS4 being a glorified YouTube & FIFA machine.

I'll buy a NX if it has a Ridge Racer at launch

 

[Theanine3D]

I think they are when one sees a bad Mass Effect port full priced when you can get at the same time, and in the other platforms one can get the whole series for that price in one package.

It's still not mistreatment. Porting 3 games would be MUCH more expensive than porting 1. EA probably already saw the warning signs that the Wii U was going to be a disaster for them (and it was), so why would they spend more money to port 3 games and lose even more money once the collection bombed?

Not defending what EA did at all, by the way. Just saying that this is in no way proof that there was intentional malice involved. It was purely a cautious, defensive move by EA to port only 1. They lost less money in the end that way.

IMO, the correct move would have been to not release that one port at all. It was insulting to Nintendo fans that they were getting only one game while everyone else was getting 3. Better off not having bothered.

 

[EVH]

You really shouldn't be looking at this in such a personal and emotional way. Companies expend as much effort as they feel they will be worth their time from a financial standpoint. If Nintendo hasn't created a compelling platform for them or fostered an audience that actually buys third party games, you can't expect third parties to bleed money all to make a few Nintendo fans happy. Everything related to how third parties treat Nintendo's platforms is strictly business, not some CEO sitting at his desk thinking "What can I do today to help kill off Nintendo?"

Here's what would happen if Nintendo got massive Western third party support at NX launch - no one would buy them. Except for you and a few other people who somehow don't have another machine for those games yet. And then the cycle would repeat, over and over. The third parties will always bail when no one buys their games, no matter how powerful the console is or how much they love working with Nintendo.They don't want to go out of business.

Maybe I put too much drama in that "misstreated" word. I'm talking about stuff like the Mass Effect crappy port for 60 bucks when you were able to get the whole trilogy in another machine for the same price.

I don't see as a fair statement "nobody would buy them". I know this is business, but if you make a crappy port, what could one expect? Thats also what business is about, isn't it. That statement is just circular thinking in my opinion.

And of course I know there is no CEO thinking about how to kill Nintendo, but I am kinda convinced that the main opinion is "Who cares about Nintendo anyway?" which is what will happeng to its public if they don't manage to fix the situation, I think. I don't expect third parties to bleed money to make Nintendo fans happy. I expect Nintendo to try to get as many games on board, to make them earn money and so to earn money themselves. Dark Souls sells machines and its in both XBONE and PS4.

IMO, the correct move would have been to not release that one port at all. It was insulting to Nintendo fans that they were getting only one game while everyone else was getting 3. Better off not having bothered.

I totally agree with your above post but specially this, lol. And of course I know it was not malice involved. The question is what can Nintendo do to prevent this stuff. At the end it will be better for third parties, for users, as they don't have to buy another machine and Nintendo itself, so they can earn royalties.

 

[L Thammy]

Fixing the problem would take

1. Opening dialogue with third parties so that Nintendo can tailor the system to what they want
2. Nintendo releasing a system that's successful enough that third parties can thrive on it

The former I'm not convinced Nintendo is willing to do, the latter may be too hard for them to do.

 

[georly]

I primarily game on the PS3 & Vita with the PS4 being a glorified YouTube & FIFA machine.

I'll buy a NX if it has a Ridge Racer at launch

So iwata was right - all it takes is one game

 

[MysteryQuesadilla]

It would probably help if Nintendo focused on a more robust ecosystem for their online infrastructure. It wouldn't solve their third party problem by itself, but it would show that they are at least setting up the environment favorable to online distribution.

 

[Trup1aya]

OP I think it's strange that you view it as Nintendo being mistreated. In really, it's Nintendo who is failing to create an environment where third parties can find success porting their titles to Nintendo consoles.

Games on Nintendo consoles seem to require extra special attention and Nintendo has yet to prove that the potential gains associated with doing that are worth the finacial risks.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

It never will! Stop hoping and enjoy the quality. Nintendo is an awesome niche product, just like it for being that and get one of the other systems as well