Nintendo DS: 2D Vs 3D

J

jarrod

Banned
Just though I'd divide down the announced games by 2D/3D standards. Lots of people seem to be lamenting the loss of 2D with GBA's end, ignoring that 2D seems to be the route most developers are taking for DS. Neat thing about DS, it seems to be attracting a good amount of mobile only developers (Gameloft, Interactive Brains, etc) not just traditional GB or console game makers... I think looking at DS only as product to combat PSP is a bit mistaken, I'd say it's really trying to stem the shift in handheld gaming from going over entirely to mobiles and establish a unique place for handheld game focused machines too. Anyway, list time...


Sprite Based Nintendo DS Software
-Advance Wars DS (Nintendo/Intelligent Systems)
-Bomberman DS (Hudson)
-Egg Monster Hero (Square Enix)
-Harvest Moon DS (Natsume/Marvelous Interactive)
-Jam with the Band (Nintendo)
-Jump Super Stars (Nintendo/HAL Labratory)
-Kenshuui Tendou Dokuta (Spike)
-Kirby & the Magic Paintbrush (Nintendo/HAL Labratory)
-Mahjong Taikai (Koei)
-Meteors (Bandai/Q Entertainment)
-Mr Driller: Drill Spirits (Namco)
-Naruto (Tomy)
-One-Line Puzzle (Nintenco/Mitchell Corp)
-Pac-Pix (Namco)
-Ping Pals (THQ/WayForward Technologies)
-Pokemon Dash! (Nintendo/Ambrella)
-Prince of Tennis: 2005 Crystal Drive (Konami/KCEJ)
-Puyo Pop Fever (Sega/Sonic Team)
-Sprung (UbiSoft)
-Super Peach Princess (Nintendo)
-Tounou Ni Asekaku Game Series: Volume 1 Cool 104 Joker & Setline (Aruze)
-Ubukawa Detective Case Files: The Masquerade Lullaby (Genki)
-Urbz: Sims in the City (Electronic Arts/Griptonite Games)
-Yakuman DS (Nintendo)
-Yoshi's Touch & Go (Nintendo)
-Zoo Keeper (Ignition Entertainment/Success)


Polygon Based Nintendo DS Software
-Animal Crossing (Nintendo)
-Asphalt Urban GT (UbiSoft/Gameloft)
-Deep Labyrinth (Interactive Planes)
-Feel the Magic: XY-XX (Sega/Sonic Team)
-Kaido Racing Battle (Genki)
-Madden NFL 2005 (Electronic Arts)
-Mario Kart DS (Nintendo)
-Metroid Prime: Hunters (Nintendo/NST)
-Mobile Suit Gundam Seed (Bandai)
-Nanostray (Majesco/Shin'en)
-New Super Mario Bros (Nintendo)
-Pac n' Roll (Namco)
-Puppy Times (Nintendo)
-Rayman DS (UbiSoft)
-Ridge Racer DS (Namco/NST)
-Sonic DS (Sega/Sonic Team)
-Spider-Man 2 (Activision/Vicarious Visions)
-Super Mario 64 DS (Nintendo)
-Tiger Woods PGA Tour (Electronic Arts)
-Yu-Gi-Oh! Nightmare Troubador (Konami/KCEJ)


Sprite/Polygon Mixed Nintendo DS Software
-Another (Nintendo/Cing)
-Caduceus: Surgical Operation (Atlus)
-Ganbare Goemon (Konami/KCES)
-Jissen Pachislot Hisshopou! Fist of the North Star DS (Sammy)
-Londonian Gothics: Mekyuu no Lolita (Mega Cyber)
-Monster Rancher Jamboree (Tecmo)
-Wario Ware Touched! (Nintendo/Intelligent Systems)


Unrevealed Nintendo DS Software
-Air Assault 2 (SummitSoft)
-Animetic RPG (Arika)
-Armored Core series (From Software)
-Atari Classics (Atari)
-Baten Kaitos DS (Namco/Monolith Soft)
-Bleach (Sega)
-Boktai (Konami/KCEJ)
-Bust-A-Move series (Taito)
-Castlevania (Konami/KCET)
-Chobi Island 3 (Rocket Company)
-Choro Q DS (Atlus/Takara)
-Disney/Pixar's The Incredibles (THQ)
-Dragon Ball Z (Atari)
-Dragon Ball Z (Banpresto)
-Dragon Booster (Konami/KDE)
-Dragon Warrior Monsters series (Square Enix/Tose Software)
-Dragon Warrior Slime Morimori series (Square Enix/Tose Software)
-Dress (Bandai)
-Dynasty Warriors DS (Koei)
-Everybody's Mah-jongg (MTO)
-Far East of Eden series (Hudson/Red Entertainment)
-Final Fantasy III (Square Enix)
-Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicle series (Square Enix)
-Frogger 2005 (Konami/KCEH)
-GoldenEye: Rogue Agent (Electronic Arts)
-GT DS Racing (MTO)
-Guruguru Nagetto (Success)
-Guruguru Omiseyasan Gokko (Bandai)
-Jinsei Game DS (Atlus/Takara)
-Johnny Awesome (Crave Entertainment)
-Kawaii Koinu DS (MTO)
-Kerokero King (Bandai)
-Keroro Gunsou (Bandai)
-Labyrinth (Aruze)
-Legend of the River King DS (Natsume/Marvelous Interactive)
-Legend of Zelda: Four Swords (Nintendo)
-Living High↑Killing Low↓ (Genki)
-Lunar Rune (Marvelous Interactive)
-Magical Vacation II (Nintendo/Brownie Brown)
-Mahou Touch (Bandai)
-Meikyuu (Aruze)
-Megaman Battle Network series (Capcom)
-Mikke! (Aki)
-Momotarou World (Hudson)
-Monster Summoner (Ertain)
-Moonlight Fables (Majesco/Cyber Philharmonic)
-Mysterious Dungeon Pokemon World: Pikachu's Adventure (ChunSoft)
-Need for Speed Underground (Electronic Arts)
-New Secret of Mana (Square Enix)
-Objection Court series (Capcom)
-Ocha Inu DS (MTO)
-One Piece (Bandai)
-Organizer Plus (SummitSoft)
-Pixar's Cars (THQ)
-Pokemon Diamond/Pearl (Nintendo/GameFreak Entertainment)
-Powerful Pro Baseball series (Konami/KCES)
-Professional Wrestling (Yukes)
-Rally DS (Spike)
-Rakugaki Kingdom series (Taito/Rakaguta Studio)
-Rekishi Simulation (Koei)
-Robots (VU Games)
-SD Gundam Simulation (Bandai)
-Sentouin Yamada Hajime 2 (KidsSation)
-Shin Megami Tensei DS (Atlus)
-Showboard Kids DS (Atlus/Racdym)
-Simple DS series: The Billiards (D3 Publisher)
-Simple DS series: The Debugging (D3 Publisher)
-Simple DS series: The Mah-jong (D3 Publisher)
-Spectral Force (Idea Factory/Neverland Company)
-SpongeBob SquarePants (THQ)
-Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (UbiSoft)
-Super Black Bass: Dynamic Shot (Starfish)
-Super Robot Taisen (Banpresto)
-Survival Kids (Konami/KCEJ)
-Tak (THQ)
-Tantei Adventure (KidsStation)
-Tony Hawk's Underground (Activision)
-Tounou Ni Asekaku Game Series: Volume 2 (Aruze)
-Tounou Ni Asekaku Game Series: Volume 3 (Aruze)
-Toy Heads World (Interactive Planes)
-TV Character Action (Sega)
-Ultimate Brain Games (TeleGames/Cosmigo)
-Ultimate Card Games (TeleGames/Cosmigo)
-Urusei Yatsura (Marvelous Interactive)
-Vandal Hearts (Konami/KCET)
-Viewtiful Joe series (Capcom/Clover Studio)
-WiNX (Konami/KDE)
-World Soccer Winning Eleven series (Konami/KCET)
-Xenosaga DS (Namco/Monolith Soft)
-X-Men Legends (Activision/Raven Software)
-ZOIDS (Tomy)
-Zoo Tycoon (THQ)

-tba action (Agatsuma Entertainment)
-tba action (Alfa Unit)
-tba action (D3 Publisher)
-tba action (Epoch)
-tba action (Now Production)
-tba action RPG (Aruze)
-tba action RPG (Hudson)
-tba card battle (KidsStation)
-tba board game (Jams Works)
-tba family (Orbital Media)
-tba historical simulation (Koei)
-tba movie license (UbiSoft)
-tba platform (Orbital Media)
-tba project (Majesco)
-tba project (Tecmo/Team Ninja)
-tba project (VU Games)
-tba racing (Orbital Media)
-tba RPG (GameArts)
-tba RPG (Marvelous Interactive)
-tba RPG (Tomy)
-tba sports (Sega)
-tba sports (Tasuke)
-tba simulation (Tasuke)
-tba simulation (Sunrise)
-tba strategy RPG (Orbital Media)
 
when people refer to "2d gaming," i think they're primarily referring to 2d platformers, action games, shooters, etc, the gameplay of which actually differs from their 3d equivalents. the 2d games on ds tend to be puzzle games and rpgs and such, in which 2d is a largely cosmetic difference. i don't think the gba ever lived up to its advance billing as a "2d revival," but the ds doesn't even pick up where the gba left off.
 
drohne said:
when people refer to "2d gaming," i think they're primarily referring to 2d platformers, action games, shooters, etc, the gameplay of which actually differs from their 3d equivalents. the 2d games on ds tend to be puzzle games and rpgs and such, in which 2d is a largely cosmetic difference. i don't think the gba ever lived up to its advance billing as a "2d revival," but the ds doesn't even pick up where the gba left off.
Click to expand...
Look at the list again, there's actually quite a bit of diversity there, from strategy to adventure to fighting to racing to platformers. Saying the 2D games "tend to be puzzle games and rpgs" strikes as bit misleading when not even half the announced 2D games fall into those genres.
 
hence the admittedly lazy "and such." i count five games that clearly fall under the traditional 2d gaming rubric:

bomberman
jump superstars
kirby
princess peach
yoshi's touch and go

perhaps my subcategorization of "2d gaming" is completely arbitrary and useless, but in any case the ds's 2d games aren't in the same vein as the gba's 2d games, and the people who perceive that something is coming to an end are right.
 
Curious drhone, but could you define "2D gaming" for me exactly. And possibly expand on precisely how DS games aren't in the same tradition as GBA? Are you talking about touch interface? What's being lost exactly?
 
my "2d gaming" is a very inexact concept. and what's being lost are entire genres. there are no 2d action games or shooters on ds. the only 2d fighting game is a smash brothers clone, and the platformers seem to be touchscreen-centered novelties. the arcade tradition of 2d was underrepresented on gba, and isn't at all represented on ds.
 
drohne said:
my "2d gaming" is a very inexact concept. and what's being lost are entire genres. there are no 2d action games or shooters on ds. the only 2d fighting game is a smash brothers clone, and the platformers seem to be touchscreen-centered novelties. the arcade tradition of 2d was underrepresented on gba, and isn't at all represented on ds.
Click to expand...
Super Peach Princess and evidently Naruto look to be traditional platformers using cross pad & button control. Bomberman seems rather tradional as well. I'm betting good portion of those other unrevealed games (Castlevania, Zelda, etc) turn out to be 2D wonders also. And even some of the ploygon based games (New Mario, Goemon, etc) seem to be following in more classic game design, despite using newer technologies.

Shooters as a genre seem to be in decline regardless of dimension, as do fighters. GBA was never too heavy on either in fact, DS doesn't seem to be a loss here in any appreciable sense even at this early stage. I think you're mixing issues here and your definition of "2D gaming" too strict and held back by your own amusement focused nostalgia.

DS certianly isn't going to be a refuge for the sorts of overly traditional 2D games you seem to be wanting, but it is going to be a 2D heavy game machine none the less. Indeed, DS is the only recent hardware with specific design for sprite based instructions. Consoles haven't had that since the Saturn days. In fact, I'm expecting DS to be somewhat comparable to Saturn in it's 2D/3D ratio for software, a good mix. That's all I'm proposing.
 
jarrod said:
Sprite Based Nintendo DS Software

-Wario Ware, Inc. DS (Nintendo/Intelligent Systems)
Click to expand...

Wario should go under the sprite/poly mix category. It's got a few (not nearly enough, if you ask me) poly-enhanced games in there.
 
the only reason i bother making the distinction is that there are technically hundreds of 2d games on current consoles. granted, they're virtually all card games, board games, puzzle games, rpgs, strategy games, and anime dating sims, but they're completely, unassailably 2d. i think it's important to state, however imprecisely, that this is not what i mean by "2d gaming."
 
Shit, there be a lot of DS titles I didn't know about.

As for the 2D vs. 3D debate...keep shit 2D on handhelds, or at least 2.5D (like Viewtiful Joe).

Oh and all of my most anticipated games for the DS are 2D. Wario Ware Touched!, Jump Stars, Yoshi's Touch and Go and Advance Wars DS.
 
drohne said:
the only reason i bother making the distinction is that there are technically hundreds of 2d games on current consoles. granted, they're virtually all card games, board games, puzzle games, rpgs, strategy games, and anime dating sims, but they're completely, unassailably 2d. i think it's important to state, however imprecisely, that this is not what i mean by "2d gaming."
Click to expand...
Well, there also seems to be a good selection of 2D fighters and shooters spread across consoles this generation too. They're not at the forefront of gaming any longer no, but there's still an active presence.

Besides, puzzle game and rpgs essentially date back as far as platformers, shooters or fighters. Why exclude them exactly? What you mean by "2D gaming" really seems a bit irrationally centered on your own tastes, ignoring the medium at large in favor of what you deem fit. Sorry DS doesn't appeal to your traditional sensibilities, but sadly it's the only strong 2D focused platform for the coming generation. PSP's getting some 2D attention too, though it's overall library even now seems weighted much more towards DC/PS2 level 3D gaming.
 
it's basically misleading to call the ds a continuation of the 2d tradition in gaming. it's misleading in precisely the same way as the -- flatly true -- statement that there are hundreds of 2d games on playstation 2. comparisons to the gba or saturn are specious. there's too much missing, and too much has changed.

yes, this is vague and personal. but you step into that territory the moment you decide that certain 2d games are more 2d than others, which is, on a certain literal level, an absurdity.
 
drohne said:
it's basically misleading to call the ds a continuation of the 2d tradition in gaming. it's misleading in precisely the same way as the -- flatly true -- statement that there are hundreds of 2d games on playstation 2. comparisons to the gba or saturn are specious. there's too much missing, and too much has changed.
Click to expand...
Comparing the DS lineup at this point directly to any previous platform is inherently misleading... which is why I'm comparing ratios. DS is a 2D heavy machine, there's really little room for argument there. It might not be pumping out the tradional amusement centered genres you feel are in need of saving (select examples being present none the less), but it is really the last platform in part created around sprite based game expression with a heavy selection of those games in it's library. The ratio supports that, even at this stage.


drohne said:
yes, this is vague and personal. but you step into that territory the moment you decide that certain 2d games are more 2d than others, which is, on a certain literal level, an absurdity.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, you seem to be the only one here taking that step. :/
 
but it's a necessary step, and it's one you implicitly take when you describe the saturn or the gba or the ds as a refuge for 2d gaming. because if all games that use 2d graphics have the same status, and tokimeki memorial is the same as metal slug is the same as mahjongg is the same as mario, then 2d games are still abundant on all platforms, and to talk about the preservation of 2d gaming is ridiculous.

when we talk about the preservation of 2d gaming, we're necessarily talking about the preservation of certain styles. i don't think the ds has anything to offer in this regard - the styles it preserves are either only nominally 2d or still abundant on consoles.
 
Nevermind the thread's title :D
This list reminds me of all the DS titles I want to see and hear info from.

VJ, Caslevania, FF, FFCC, Secret of mana, Sonic, and many more.

Smash super jump was a start, I LOOOOOVE it, but need to see more
 
drohne said:
but it's a necessary step, and it's one you implicitly take when you describe the saturn or the gba or the ds as a refuge for 2d gaming. because if all games that use 2d graphics have the same status, and tokimeki memorial is the same as metal slug is the same as mahjongg is the same as mario, then 2d games are still abundant on all platforms, and to talk about the preservation of 2d gaming is ridiculous.

when we talk about the preservation of 2d gaming, we're necessarily talking about the preservation of certain styles. i don't think the ds has anything to offer in this regard - the styles it preserves are either only nominally 2d or still abundant on consoles.
Click to expand...
Sure. But you're still glossing over the ratio argument, comparing the amount of tradional platformers so far announced for DS to the total number available on Saturn or GBA is disingenous. Proportinately, DS has a high ratio of 2D games even in traditional genres... more than the 5 you singled out I should add too.

It's also worth noting that DS is a next generation platform, and it looks to be the only one in the next round where a concerted hardware effort was put towards sprite handling. By design DS is targeting 2D games, which is something none of the other upcoming handhelds or consoles will bother to adress it seems.

I think you're not ackowledging what DS offers more because you've already made up your mind about the platform. A look at the DS library and hardware shows it clearly offers the most potential for actually seeing 2D gaming in the coming years, above any other platform.
 
If they start porting some of my SNES favourite to DS I'll definitely consider buying one. I don't think I'll buy a DS on the strength of its 3D capabilities. From what I saw of Shin Megami Tensei DS in that JPN video I would say it's 2D as well. The pseudo 2D Mario side-scroller looks interesting. I wonder how much of that game is completed at this point, or if it was actually just a mock-up done for E3 like people have been suggesting.
 
Docpan said:
3d. Time to move on.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're right, but 3D on the DS, in light of the PSP's emergence, will be an unpleasant afterthought. I think the DS, given its obvious limitations where 3D is concerned, will be a surprisingly strong source of 2D gaming.
 
While it is awesome having a portable that does 3D games....I see no reason for it. Why are there games for portables that last up to 20 hours? It's a portable. If you want length, graphics, and killer stories try out a Cube,PS2, or XBox.
 
jarrod said:
Nope, no SMT DS in there. I've heard rumors it'll be based on the Devil Summoner games though, for obvious reasons. :)
Click to expand...
This is the game in question, though it's probably not SMT since I haven't followed the JPN lineup too closely.

somegame.jpg
 
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