Nintendo DS's biggest problem...

D

Dave Long

Banned
I love this thing. It's become my number one handheld gaming system. I have a substantial number of GBA games that I'll be playing on it and so far I'm still in love with Mr. Driller and Mario 64 DS is awesome as well. I'll be all over Wario Ware Touched! when it ships and I'm looking forward to playing it plenty for a long time.

As a hardware design, it's solid and good looking. The screens are bright, colorful and flawless on my DS. They stay clean easily as far as I have seen so far and I really love the sensitivity of the touch screen. It just plain works.

All that said, the system has one major problem, they screwed up the D-pad.

I'm playing Gradius Galaxies GBA right now, trying to finish on one credit. At first I didn't understand why I was dying too easily now that I'm on the DS but after a couple plays it hit me, the d-Pad has a dead spot in the center. No other Nintendo controller I've ever used has a d-pad like this one.

If you push down right in the center of the d-pad, it actually allows you to depress the entire cross. That's just wrong. It's a major issue in a game like Gradius where you need instant manueverability because shifting your thumb across the d-pad results in a moment where the ship stops. Sometimes, when I didn't realize what was causing the issue, I'd be pushing what I thought was left or down and no motion occurred on screen. I thought something was wrong with the d-pad on my DS until I realized this dead spot existed.

Every other Nintendo d-pad has had something under center to make sure you couldn't depress the entire cross and have a result of no input. Why they changed it on the DS is something I really don't understand and while you can adapt to it, it's definitely the weakest part of the entire design. Hopefully others have noticed and written in to let them know and it'll get corrected down the road...
 
So they didn't recycle the GBA/GC D-pad? Hmm...I've never tried DS myself, so is the DS D-pad bigger then the previous one they've been using?
 
Are you sure it isn't just your unit?

The DS D-Pad is bigger than that of the GBA or GCN, and imho, much more comfortable and responsive. I have yet to use it with a truly twitchy game, however.
 
DL, your unit is defective. I just ran a test as follows:

-I booted up into the normal OS interface.
-I proceeded to place my thumb directly into the center of the D-pad, and only the center.
-I then VERY SLIGHTLY shifted into each of the 8 directions, at random, without decreasing the straight-down pressure I was applying to the D-Pad's center.
-The OS curser proceeded to respond quite naturally to my slightly shifting thumb, never catching or halting.

It does NOT feel like the D-pad is fully depressing until I shift away from the center towards one of the 8 directions. In other words, I was unable to make the D-pad click fully down just by applying pressure to its center.
 
I don't think it's just my unit. I have a friend with one so I'll check on his Monday. I don't think you'd be aware of this problem unless you play a game that requires quick response. If you have a GBA shooter of some kind, pop it in and try it out. Heck, just play any game that you can move up/down/left/right and push the CENTER of the d-pad. You should be able to depress it and whatever you're controlling won't move onscreen.

Then try moving one direction and sliding across to move the opposite direction. A lot of times you might pick up your thumb to switch from right to left, up to down, etc. But in a shooter, you really need to have that instantaneous movement change. You can't do it so easily with the DS. The NES controllers, the SNES, the Gamecube... all the D-pads before definitely prevented you from pushing the middle of the cross all the way in.
 
We responded near-simultaneously, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll play through the first stage of Gradius Galaxies on my DS right now. I'll repot back shortly.
 
Hmmm... maybe it is my unit then? I just checked it again and I can definitely push down on the indentation in the middle of the D-pad depressing the entire crosspad at one time.

This unit came from the Pokémon Center after Christmas.

Maybe it's something to do with Gradius Galaxies?
 
I whole-heartedly confirm that it is your unit. I'm playing Gradius Galaxies without any problems whatsoever, even going so far as to put MORE pressure than I ever would on the D-pad (such that my thumb is actually starting to pain me.)

Even further, I've paused my game and now using both of my thumbs, am trying to push on TWO opposing directions simultaneously, trying to force the D-Pad down all the way (up + down, left + right, diagonal + opposing diagonal, etc.) I find it absolutely impossible to fully depress the entire D-Pad.

In fact, I never noticed this before in any D-Pad, but I can FEEL whatever is beneath that causes the pivot. If I increase or decrease the pressure I put down with one thumb, I can feel the D-Pad respond accordingly, with the other thumb. Fascinating.

I repeat, it is completely impossible for me to lock the D-Pad by fully depressing any 2 (or more) directions at once. There is clearly some obstruction at the very center of the D-Pad that causes it to pivot in no more than 1 (opposing) direction at once.
 
Great. So I've got a defective unit. :(

I can definitely push down on the right and left of the d-pad at the same time and the whole thing depresses. I have to believe I'm not the only one with one like this but maybe I am?
 
If it makes you feel ANY better, I got mine at lauch, it has a dead pixel, and even after 2 months, I cannot get it exchanged thanks to a complete lack of availability at my store of purchase. (I've got a little less than a month left before they stop accepting exchanges.)
 
I think the DS D-Pad is the best D-Pad Nintendo has put out... Much, much better than the GBA and GCN's D-Pad for sure.
 
Dave Long said:
Great. So I've got a defective unit. :(

I can definitely push down on the right and left of the d-pad at the same time and the whole thing depresses. I have to believe I'm not the only one with one like this but maybe I am?
Click to expand...

Perhaps there are others. Maybe your particular line of DS units are defective, but if so, it's a factory flaw, not a comprehensive design flaw. You might be hardpressed to convince a store clerk of it's defect, however. NoA might exchange it for you. (You did purchase this in America, right?)

And yes, the D-Pad is vastly superior to that of the GCN or GBA, in design, comfort, and size. It's VERY responsive.
 
Yeah i feel it on my DS too, I think they did this for 3D games like mario 64, so people's thumbs can move across the d-pad smoothly for actions like quick turns and whatnot.
 
sykoex said:
Yeah i feel it on my DS too, I think they did this for 3D games like mario 64, so people's thumbs can move across the d-pad smoothly for actions like quick turns and whatnot.
Click to expand...

You mean that you CAN depress the entire D-Pad at once, thereby locking it until you let go?
 
I'm sure Nintendo would replace it. I got it from the Pokémon Center in NYC. You can order through their website (http://www.pokemoncenter.com) and right after Christmas I got e-mail from them saying they were in stock. I couldn't find one anywhere before that. My birthday was mid-January so it was a b-day gift.

I'll probably go through NOA rather than the Pokémon Center. I'm going to use the one my friend has on Monday. His was a launch unit like yours.

I play Driller with the stylus (love it!) so I haven't really used the d-pad much but my pal got me Gradius Galaxies for Christmas so I've been playing that on and off too. That game really made the d-pad thing noticeable.

As for the comments about the game lineup, Mr. Driller has me so occupied that I really don't need another game until at least Wario Ware Touched! and I could probably go a lot longer than that. The DS really does rock, spaced out releases or not. I dig the hardware just not this d-pad. :)
 
Take it back. Sorry, I read about your Pokemon Center purchase, but it didn't click. Oops. Are there any other tests you think I could perform to attempt to duplicate your problem?

As for the drought, it's happened with ever system I've ever owned, so I'm not too worried. And, unlike most other systems, at least I have the GBA backwards compatibility to keep me occupied, and the added bonus that it plays GBA games better than the SP ever could. Better screen, better lighting, better controls.
 
Mejilan said:
You mean that you CAN depress the entire D-Pad at once, thereby locking it until you let go?
Click to expand...

Yup, you bet I can. You see how the d-pad has a little circular depression in the center? I can push on that spot and I hear the click of all four major directional buttons being depressed inside the unit on the circuit board. Not sure if you've ever seen how these things look on the board, but usually there's "bubbles" there that get pushed in by the d-pad's plastic nubs when you push in a direction. That of course completes the circuit indicating a direction push. I certainly expected there to be a plastic piece in the center on the bottom of the d-pad to allow for it to tilt on.

Heh, you probably know all that. :) Anyway, I can push the whole d-pad down at once. It also becomes an issue when I'm trying to hit diagonals. I get a no-push registered because I think the d-pad is sometimes hitting three directions at once as I move quickly from one diagonal to another.
 
No, I understand your problem, DL. I just didn't quite understand the wording of sykoex's contribution to this thread.
 
Mejilan said:
If it makes you feel ANY better, I got mine at lauch, it has a dead pixel, and even after 2 months, I cannot get it exchanged thanks to a complete lack of availability at my store of purchase. (I've got a little less than a month left before they stop accepting exchanges.)
Click to expand...

Dude, just send it in to Nintendo for repair. They have a deal with Fed Ex so that the shipping is free.

That's what I did. Sent my DS to Nintendo for repair, got it back six days later (not business days. Six DAYS, and I live in fucking Minnesota; the repair facility was in New York).
 
I live in Brooklyn. I think I'll do as you suggest, take advantage of the drought, and get it replaced BEFORE Wario Ware hits.

I just finished Minish Cap at 100%, and couldn't bear to not have my DS for that. Thanks for the heads up. Did it through their website, or customer service?
 
Thanks for all the responses BTW. I would've sworn this was a design thing if it hadn't been for you guys. Mainly because I have seen third party controllers with that kind of D-pad before and I just thought they got sloppy.
 
Mejilan said:
I live in Brooklyn. I think I'll do as you suggest, take advantage of the drought, and get it replaced BEFORE Wario Ware hits.

I just finished Minish Cap at 100%, and couldn't bear to not have my DS for that. Thanks for the heads up. Did it through their website, or customer service?
Click to expand...

I registered the repair online, through my nintendo. Then, I went over to Fed Ex, got it packaged up, and shipped it off. couldn't have been easier, unless they came to my door to pick it up. :lol
 
Very welcome. I'm happy you posted this. Would have sucked if you continued to think it was a standard design flaw. Particularly if you only learned otherwise after your warranty had expired!

GaimeGuy, ya still around to answer my question?

Edit - Thanks a bunch GG! :lol
 
f_elz said:
DS d-pad > psp/ps2 d-pad > GCN < XBox
Click to expand...

The Xbox actually has a better D-pad than the GC. Strange but undeniably true. I found a GameBoy Player pad for 10 bucks new the other day, so the point is moot for me.

um, I think I read you wrong :)
 
To be blunt...DS's biggest problem is its technological limitations - a fixed function pipeline which will ensure that the games you see today will pretty much look no better or worse than the games you'll see in 3 or 4 years (artistic efforts aside). It's so simple that programmers are already sort of pushing it to its limits, while PSP will probably never reach PS2 levels but will get better and better.

From a games standpoint, the double screen and touch stuff will allow for some creativity, but we'll see whether that will be enough to hold the general public's attention as they are given a virtual technological blowjob by the PSP year after year.
 
f_elz said:
DS d-pad > psp/ps2 d-pad > GCN < XBox
Click to expand...


He could be talking about the standard/ original Xbox D-pad which is the worst D-pad I have ever seen but the Controller S has the best D-pad I have used this gen (haven’t used a DS yet).
 
The DS' crosskey Control Pad is so much better than the GCN's and GBA's/GBA SP's, it's not even funny. It's nice and wide...and also really responsive. I do wish it would use a Control Pad more similar to the N64's or SNES' though. :(

As for the DS' biggest flaw, it's that it can't do AA for free. If it was able to antialias (it probably can in software at the expense of something else), the graphics would look *so* much better. It'd shut a lot of haters up...it'd be easier on my eyes, too. :)
 
Vortac said:
To be blunt...DS's biggest problem is its technological limitations - a fixed function pipeline which will ensure that the games you see today will pretty much look no better or worse than the games you'll see in 3 or 4 years (artistic efforts aside). It's so simple that programmers are already sort of pushing it to its limits, while PSP will probably never reach PS2 levels but will get better and better.

From a games standpoint, the double screen and touch stuff will allow for some creativity, but we'll see whether that will be enough to hold the general public's attention as they are given a virtual technological blowjob by the PSP year after year.
Click to expand...



In 3-4 years, the best the PSP can produce will look noticably inadequate compared with current generation PC and console technology. The DS isn't a fully 3D system, so anything it has out by that time will be like typical Gameboy fare.

There are already well over a dozen Xbox games that are more capable technically than anything in the PS2 library.

1) Panzer Dragoon Orta
2) PGR2
3) Amped 2
4) Morrowind (yes, crappy looking Morrowind, simply because the PS2 just can't do it)
5) Jet Set Radio Future
6) Ninja Gaiden
7) Halo
8) Halo 2
9) The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
10) Splinter Cell (and its sequels)
11) Doom 3
12) Top Spin


Don't misunderstand me. The best looking DS game will look like garbage compared to even an average-looking PSP game. (provided the PSP developer uses the technology) I'm just saying that PSP graphics will come to be accepted as the norm for that handheld, and not the annual "blow job" that you have in mind.
 
You know, the GB, GBC and GBA archictecutre all allowed multiple directions to be pushed at the same time. It wasn't physically possible, but the 1-byte string that read in input on the GB was the four directions, select, start, A and B.
 
captmcblack said:
As for the DS' biggest flaw, it's that it can't do AA for free. If it was able to antialias (it probably can in software at the expense of something else), the graphics would look *so* much better. It'd shut a lot of haters up...it'd be easier on my eyes, too. :)
Click to expand...

May 2005- Los Angeles Nintendo to announced the Nintendo DS SP now with texture filtering and anti-aliasing! Nintendo president Satoru Iwata credits Nintendo Chairman Hiroshi Yamauchi with the brilliant idea. The new machine will retail for $149.99 with the DS dropping in price to $99.99

:lol


ok, just kidding.
 
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