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[darrylgorn]

This could be a groundbreaking development if they are not found to be overstepping.

Lockpick is a commonly used tool to dump keys from your own console that you own, but Nintendo sent a DMCA request to GitHub requesting the project be taken down.

The team had fully believed that dumping keys from your own console was completely legal prior to the takedown notice.

The team behind the Yuzu emulator has not responded to Nintendo's DMCA of Lockpick or the shutdown of Skyline Emulator, but the team behind the Ryujinx emulator announced on their Discord server that "Ryujinx is not shutting down."

https://www.xda-developers.com/skyline-emulator-ceases-development/

 

[Buggy Loop]

Judges shouldn’t allow Nintendo to go on that kind of power trip.

 

[Fahdis]

Fuck Nintendo.

 

[Lasha]

Judges shouldn’t allow Nintendo to go on that kind of power trip.

Blame DMCA. It blocks this sort of attempt to circumvent access controls.

 

[Fake]

After that stupid Kotaku article near to the TotK release I was expecting Nintendo doing something about.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Obligatory mention that every software licence for things you buy never gives you ownership, but a licence right to utilise the software, something that can be revoked at any time.
Now the question is A. if such a broad strokes legal documents are legal, given that licences are mostly pages upon pages long, kinda like T&Cs, which were already proven in Europe and even US to contain very often illegal clause B. how copyright applies specifically to software, and even better - is there a difference between the same code put on a physical medium (cartridge) and purely digital one.

Whatever the case DMCA has to have been a master stroke for the industry, some serious money was spend on lobbying.

 

[Lasha]

Obligatory mention that every software licence for things you buy never gives you ownership, but a licence right to utilise the software, something that can be revoked at any time.
Now the question is A. if such a broad strokes legal documents are legal, given that licences are mostly pages upon pages long, kinda like T&Cs, which were already proven in Europe and even US to contain very often illegal clause B. how copyright applies specifically to software, and even better - is there a difference between the same code put on a physical medium (cartridge) and purely digital one.

Whatever the case DMCA has to have been a master stroke for the industry, some serious money was spend on lobbying.

The question boils down to what category of technology controls protecting the keys are used for. Controls used to prevent unauthorized access, like Nintendo states switch keys are, can only be circumvented for preservation purposes and the law specifies strict conditions. Controls to stop unauthorized copies are less of an issue.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

Nintendo can just FUCK OFF with their abysmal and overpriced hardware and $70 prices for horribly compromized games with 20 FPS caps. It's their own effin' fault for not making modern home only and traditional console with 4K support. People should not pay $70 for horrible experience just cuz you refuse to give a better one, hense they must be free to do whatever they want with what they bought to get it without your effin' permission, you greedy fucks! So, FUCK OFF, eat shit and leave people and emulation scene alone! JFC, man...

P.S. Same goes for people making their own games and remakes based on Zelda, Metroid etc. and without asking people for money and not having any plans to commercialize their work for profit.

 

[StereoVsn]

I think Nintendo would lose the case(s) if this actually got in front of judge and jury, but they are going after individuals and small teams that can't afford to hire good lawyers.

 

[Barakov]

Kinda surprised it took them so long to do this.

 

[Esppiral]

This is about lockpick, and has nothing to do with any emulator, the Skyline team overreacted.

 

[ADiTAR]

I don't get people who think Nintendo has no rights to its own software. It doesn't matter if you can't handle 20fps, 15, or 5. You're playing their software illegally and nothing you can say justifies that, at least acknowledge that and don't give yourself excuses.

I have no idea if they have a case or not.

 

[-Zelda-]

Fuck Nintendo.

Nah. Fuck LIKE Nintendo, and be second best.

 

[Otre]

Nah. Fuck LIKE Nintendo, and be second best.

Ah good, the nintendo boots needed some polishing.

 

[dreamcastluvr]

If they could only release some hardware that ran their games as good as emulators do... or just start doing PC releases. Once you go BoTW at 60 FPS, you never go back.

 

[pepodmc_]

This doesnt change nothing

Nintendo should accept that they cant do nothing about emulation. Sony learned the lesson, nintendo doesnt want to
Connectix virtual game station may god have you in glory

 

[ReBurn]

I think Nintendo would lose the case(s) if this actually got in front of judge and jury, but they are going after individuals and small teams that can't afford to hire good lawyers.

I think Nintendo would probably win in court. I think the chances would be slim that a court would find that you own any of the actual software that powers your console, including keys stored on it, or that you have the right to use that software in a way that circumvents the EULA. If these folks had clean room reversed engineered the entire process, including creating and validating keys, I think Nintendo would lose. But since it relies on keys Nintendo created being used for something other than their intended purpose I think Nintendo has a case.

 

[ReBurn]

This doesnt change nothing

Nintendo should accept that they cant do nothing about emulation. Sony learned the lesson, nintendo doesnt want to
Connectix virtual game station may god have you in glory

Ask geohot about the lesson Sony learned.

 

[ParaSeoul]

I don't get people who think Nintendo has no rights to its own software. It doesn't matter if you can't handle 20fps, 15, or 5. You're playing their software illegally and nothing you can say justifies that, at least acknowledge that and don't give yourself excuses.

I have no idea if they have a case or not.

Emulation is legal.

 

[ParaSeoul]

This doesnt change nothing

Nintendo should accept that they cant do nothing about emulation. Sony learned the lesson, nintendo doesnt want to
Connectix virtual game station may god have you in glory

Sony learned their lesson in the Damn 90s,Nintendo is really that far behind. I have a feeling they're gonna get away with it too like they always seem to do.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Good

 

[DemonGamerTTT]

Dumb Nintendo fanboys put your pants up, it's not over yet...

Emulators are perfectly legal.

About the keys... Well most people don't need them... Nintendo is just witch hunting their own paying customers.

 

[ADiTAR]

Emulation is legal.

Why's that?

 

[SeraphJan]

Unless Skyline Emulator uses proprietary source code, otherwise they don't need to be worried. The lock pick case might be interesting

Why's that?

Emulator is only illegal if the dev uses proprietary source code, Its perfectly legal for one program to simulate the feature of another hardware as long as the source code does not infringe that copy right.

 

[hemo memo]

Emulation is legal.

Emulation is legal yes but playing devils advect here. What if Nintendo can prove that emulation is mostly use for piracy against their games?

 

[ADiTAR]

Emulator is only illegal if the dev uses proprietary source code, Its perfectly legal for one program to simulate the feature of another hardware as long as the source code does not infringe that copy right.

The emulator is legal sure, but is emulation legal? I know the saying is that if you own the game you can emulate it. Because you don't own the game, you own the ability to play it.

 

[SeraphJan]

The emulator is legal sure, but is emulation legal? I know the saying is that if you own the game you can emulate it.

Any proprietary software usage including Bios or Commercial games are only legal if the user had the license to it.

In reality, Its a gray area because it almost impossible to track down every users.

Emulation is legal yes but playing devils advect here. What if Nintendo can prove that emulation is mostly use for piracy against their games?

Then Nintendo would have to go after every user they had evidence with, which like I said above, is almost impossible. Console maker typically go after the emulator dev for that reason, but the case could hardly be established due to most emulator in modern days leaves almost no traces leading to piracy. Since the developing of emulator is legal, only the usage might not, they would have to go after the users.

A good analogy here would be: You can't establish a case against the Gun maker just because some random dude used their Gun to commit crime.

The best example of Nintendo successfully dealing with illegal emulation was probably its crackdown on some ROM sites, however its hardly enough

 

[Knightime_X]

If Nintendo would just make competent hardware they could easily reduce piracy by half.
Some are turning to emulators purely because Switch is shit in terms of image quality and performance.

 

[baphomet]

Just giving people even more reason to pirate their shit.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

You're playing their software illegally and nothing you can say justifies that

When it comes to Nintendo - better screen resolution, image quality, performance and just overal miles and miles better gameplay experience justifies everything. If you're forcing people to bu shit products, they will find a way to get much better gameplay experience.

Sony and MS selling their games for PC crowd and no one will even think about emulation of Series consoles or PS5 in the furture, cuz everything will be available on PC for you to play the best versions of their games, provided PC ports are of good quality.

Nintendo is giant, dumb and stuborn AF dinosaur that refuses to sell their games elsewhere and forcing people to buy their shit and outdated hardware, while also forcing 3d party devs to compromize their games and vision cuz outdated hardware can only let them do so much.

As long as Switch will be the only platform for their games, emulation will be the only and the best way to play their games, whether you bought them or not.

 

[Portugeezer]

Emulation is legal yes but playing devils advect here. What if Nintendo can prove that emulation is mostly use for piracy against their games?

For some reason Nintendo went after software that only someone who owns a Switch and is NOT pirating would use.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Fuck Nintendo

 

[SJRB]

Classic Nintendo.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Nah, fuck you nintendo. Its my own rom, so long as im not distributing it or selling it ill do what I want with it. Maybe try putting out hardware that isnt a decade out of date by the time It comes out

 

[Pejo]

Yea gonna have to sit in the "fuck Nintendo" camp on this one. This utility is for dumping keys of something you legally own. The alternative (actually illegal method) is much easier, so all they're doing is funneling everybody into that option. Copyright laws are so shit, DMCA needs to die, but it never will due to the money behind it. Nintendo and Disney are my 2 least favorite companies when it comes to this shit.

 

[SeraphJan]

Nintendo is giant, dumb and stuborn AF dinosaur that refuses to sell their games elsewhere

In an ironical sense, Nintendo do care about its fanbase, most Nintendo fan here absolutely reject the idea of Nintendo releasing ports, Nintendo is doing exactly what its fan wants in this regard.

Just look at how many lols and negative comment these op receive for even suggesting that idea, you get the point: Example #1 Example #2 Example #3

When it comes to the other two brand I rarely see this unified reaction, its one thing from a business stand point that Nintendo won't do ports, but its another when the fans doesn't want it to be accessible to more gamers.

I guess the idea of "Nintendo doesn't care about its fanbase" doesn't hold water, its the people that cherished this idea doesn't understand what most Nintendo's fanbase truly want.

 

[ADiTAR]

When it comes to Nintendo - better screen resolution, image quality, performance and just overal miles and miles better gameplay experience justifies everything. If you're forcing people to bu shit products, they will find a way to get much better gameplay experience.

Sony and MS selling their games for PC crowd and no one will even think about emulation of Series consoles or PS5 in the furture, cuz everything will be available on PC for you to play the best versions of their games, provided PC ports are of good quality.

Nintendo is giant, dumb and stuborn AF dinosaur that refuses to sell their games elsewhere and forcing people to buy their shit and outdated hardware, while also forcing 3d party devs to compromize their games and vision cuz outdated hardware can only let them do so much.

As long as Switch will be the only platform for their games, emulation will be the only and the best way to play their games, whether you bought them or not.

You can justify it to yourself all you like, but piracy is illegal and what you're advocating here for is piracy and hate Nintendo. Hey, maybe you could get a job at Kotaku!

 

[ADiTAR]

In an ironical sense, Nintendo do care about its fanbase, most Nintendo fan here absolutely reject the idea of Nintendo releasing ports, Nintendo is doing exactly what its fan wants in this regard.

Just look at how many lols and negative comment these op receive for even suggesting that idea, you get the point: Example #1 Example #2 Example #3

When it comes to the other two brand I rarely see this unified reaction, its one thing from a business stand point that Nintendo won't do ports, but its another when the fans doesn't want it to be accessible to more gamers.

I could care less if Nintendo ports their games, as long as I'm able to play with the joycons separated.

 

[SeraphJan]

I could care less if Nintendo ports their games, as long as I'm able to play with the joycons separated.

That's why I didn't say "every", I'm also a fan of their games, but I wish they could be ported so I could have better performance.

 

[ADiTAR]

That's why I didn't say "every", I'm also a fan of their games, but I wish they could be ported so I could have better performance.

But you do understand that will kill off their business model of also profiting from Hardware.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Just more hoops to the process of playing their games on the better hardware.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

The DMCAd software will be developed by the devs from un-DMCAd countries. There’s a clear request for Switch emulation and those shady letters won’t change that. Emulation is legal. Native Nintendo hardware was pathetic from the start and Switch clearly overstayed its welcome.

In the age when I can legally play Spider-man, MCC, Death Stranding or Forza on my Deck, Nintendo with their legal department that force you to own a flimsy plastic toy for EVERYTHING Nintendo could f right off.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

In an ironical sense, Nintendo do care about its fanbase, most Nintendo fan here absolutely reject the idea of Nintendo releasing ports, Nintendo is doing exactly what its fan wants in this regard.

Companies only care about themselves, money and not their fan base (if there is one), numerous fan projects were shut down cuz of Nintendo, their greed and their shit policies and cuz of this alone, they will never get any support from me in any way shape or form. I bought Switch twice and sold it twice, never again. Modern home only and traditional console with native 4K support and 0 motion gimmicks or fuck off.

Just look at how many lols and negative comment these op receive for even suggesting that idea, you get the point: Example #1 Example #2 Example #3

Why should I care about these "lols" and people who gave them? As far as I'm concerned, these OPs are 100% right and I've said + - the same thing here. Sony lost nothing by releasing their games on PC and now have more ways to sell their games and fund future projects, while previously they could only selfishely rely on their own console. The more people have access to games from said hardware, the better, and it only means more profits for those who make them.

Only stupid and stubborn cowards will hide under their outdated consoles, while being afraid that no one will buy said consoles cuz better experience will be on a much better platform. I own both PC and PS5 and don't care if Sony games are also available on PC, cuz it's a good thing and in no way it makes PS5 useless and absolete, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it and sold it already.

You can justify it to yourself all you like, but piracy is illegal and what you're advocating here for is piracy and hate Nintendo.

I'm not advocating for anything, I'm speaking for myself and myself only. It's just so happens that there's people like me who think the same way. I don't hate Nintendo, they can just fuck off.

Hey, maybe you could get a job at Kotaku!

They can do just fine without me, I'm good on my own.

 

[UnNamed]

Emulation is legal yes but playing devils advect here. What if Nintendo can prove that emulation is mostly use for piracy against their games?

Emulation is legal since emulation goal is to replicate an hardware, a mere proof of concept, which is not illegal. The only illegal part would be if you "steal" part of the original code, so emulators must use different approaches.

When you buy a game, you sign a contract were Nintendo let you play games on a specific hardware. Lockpick allows people to play games on different hardwares. So Nintendo must proves that their license to let play their games on a specific device is valid and customers have no right over it.

I imagine that this thing to "license to play movies/music/games" is something not new and already discussed in the '60 and' 70, so there already are cases on it.

 

[Majukun]

Regardless of the legality of such threats, it was expected it would happen given how much some people were abusing emulators (like not owning the switch but buying the game and emulating it on a steam deck or pc, and claiming it's all good and legal).

It's a shame because given the shitty hardware, there's a legitimate need for switch emulators.

 

[ADiTAR]

I'm not advocating for anything, I'm speaking for myself and myself only. It's just so happens that there's people like me who think the same way. I don't hate Nintendo, they can just fuck off.

This you? "As long as Switch will be the only platform for their games, emulation will be the only and the best way to play their games, whether you bought them or not."

They can do just fine without me, I'm good on my own.

 

[winjer]

Emulation is legal yes but playing devils advect here. What if Nintendo can prove that emulation is mostly use for piracy against their games?

Those are 2 different issues, although sometimes they overlap.
Even Nintendo uses emulation to run their older games on current hardware.

Cases like this already went to court a couple of times in the late 90's with Sony. And Sony lost. Some might remember Bleem!

 

[Tams]

Nintendo is giant, dumb and stuborn AF dinosaur

I wonder who makes more money and is more popular?

Nintendo or you?

 

[Ozzie666]

Pretty aggressive for sure, it's nothing but bully and scare tactics. They want to see where they stand and protect themselves. They have the money to win a case involving personal owned keys etc. If they win, it's a precedent for many things. How can any person compete against them realistic, and many will fold and surrender.

 

[Davevil]

This is about lockpick, and has nothing to do with any emulator, the Skyline team overreacted.

No.
If you can't use lockpick anymore, you can't extract the new keys who emulators use.
so the emulators can't emulate new games.