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Nintendo hasn't learned anything at all (Revolution-related)

S

silver

Banned
Once again, Nintendo will be late with unveiling their console for the full 100 percent, not to mention games. Once again, Nintendo remains too secretive to excite the average joe. Why has Nintendo not learned? Why didn't they create a demo reel with a few well-known characters? Why not show off the "revolution"? It's not like MS or Sony will change their consoles accordingly.

Nintendo MUST have a Spaceworld event this year to prevent themselves from falling behind once again. They didn't show anything and we already know that they won't make it out before PS3 by a long shot. No 3rd party has dev kits. What is going on?

Also, while reading the IGN interview with Shigeru Miyamoto, it struck me that he is saying the same stuff as when GameCube was unveiled at Spaceworld 2000.

I have a bad feeling about this.
 
Actually, Nintendo has learned. They've learned that they can remain profitable without competing.

Or at least they think they can (I'm pretty sure they can too).
 
when....when will there be enough evidence to suggest that perhaps their plan is not going to go the course of their competitors. And there isn't going to be a secret unveiling with holograms and you're going to feel so kick-ass rolling with Nintendo? You don't need them to do anything but make games you like, and graphics and unveilings aren't going to change that. If you want to back a popular fanboi choice, the PS3 is almost here and you'll have all these new friends on GAF who won't make insider jokes/lies at your expense.
 
The comment about stolen ideas by Miyamoto (namely Shoulder Buttons, Analog Control for 3D games and Wireless Controllers) is indeed true. They've learned to shut up, that talking so soon before launching something is not worth it...

They know most hardcore gamers are going to have enough money to buy more than one consoles. If Revolution gets the number 2 spot in the home of many gamers, it will be because of it's cheapnest (half the price of X360 or PS3, that's for sure), fun (but simplier) games and their 20 years of backward compatibility...
 
They've learned that they can remain profitable without competing.
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I agree with that.

No one lese could have a less than 20% share and make big money.

Of course, if they didn't have a handheld business that was subsidising everything else........
 
They do have a point about competitors copying their hardware ideas tho... I may be wrong but to my knowledge WiFi wasn't supposed to be on Xbox 360 and/or PS3 (I may be wrong) - but now it is after Nintendo said Revolution would have WiFi. And wireless controllers, something which they pioneered last gen, are now included for all systems.
 
huzkee said:
They do have a point about competitors copying their hardware ideas tho... I may be wrong but to my knowledge WiFi wasn't supposed to be on Xbox 360 - but now it is. And wireless controllers are now incluided in all systems.
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WiFi would have been built in X360 cause it's so cheap, and Sony would have included it in their console anyway... The wireless controller is a point though.
 
silver said:
Why has Nintendo not learned? Why didn't they create a demo reel with a few well-known characters? Why not show off the "revolution"?
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Why do we know more about Revolution a year+ before launch than we did about Xbox 360 seven months before launch?

AB 101 said:
Of course, if they didn't have a handheld business that was subsidising everything else........
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Yeah, I'm sure with that expensive-to-manufacture GameCube hardware and the poor sales of their titles for it they totally need the Starfis of the world to keep them out of the toilet.
 
when....when will there be enough evidence to suggest that perhaps their plan is not going to go the course of their competitors. And there isn't going to be a secret unveiling with holograms and you're going to feel so kick-ass rolling with Nintendo? You don't need them to do anything but make games you like, and graphics and unveilings aren't going to change that. If you want to back a popular fanboi choice, the PS3 is almost here and you'll have all these new friends on GAF who won't make insider jokes/lies at your expense.
Click to expand...

Hehehe ... :)
 
Nintendo has learned more than anyone else. This isn't directly related, but here is something that I wrote on some other forums in response to someone saying how superior and more advanced the PSP was over DS.

In some respects, such as graphics, in other respects it is a very old concept. Some advancement can come from rendering ability, but a whole lot more than come from the design of the hardware itself. PSP has an old design made to support old game ideas, while the DS opens the door for new possibilities and advancements to gaming on the whole--not just bringing certain console experiences to the handheld market.

Think of game design beyond levels and stages and mission objectives. Think of gameplay beyond sports, shooters, racers, platformers and RPGs. Think of networking and personal interaction beyond competition. The PSP may outdo DS in many current genre standards, but new ideas create new standards, so you need a mind for potential and the future--not just a mind for the past and comparing old ideas with new and refined/upgraded versions of old ideas.

Games used to just be about being entertaining and having a good time, but now they are also used to connect people and have good times together--Nintendo is dedicated to finding new ways to do both, which in my eyes makes them the most respectable company in the industry right now. They don't want their system to become a mindless media center of the home like other companies--they want the experience to be unqiue, engaging, creative, fun, shared, and remembered.

It's similar to humor--there are many old and tired joke concepts that can still get a laugh, and many people try to perfect these styles, and they may get a laugh but in the end it's just following a formula and it's not special. The best and funniest humor to experience is always inside jokes, and they're always specially remembered. Why? Because they are unqiue, engaging, creative, fun, shared... you see what I'm getting at?

Nintendo understands people and what makes things fun. They understand what really entertains and gladdens, not just what effectively distracts. They know what it means to make a game, not just an interactive challenge that you complete and toss aside.
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That was mostly about DS but I indirectly referred to Revolution in there because Nintendo's vision involves both of them. But with all this said, I'm not saying that Nintendo is committed soley to the art and isn't out to make money like everyone else--but they do realize that as they do their job better to make games more enjoyable for us, we end up buying more which helps them keep going. It's an attempt to make their own submarket and not stand as direct competetors to Sony and Microsoft.

I'm not saying they're set to dominate the industry again soon, but they have decided what principles they're going to follow. Then, knowing that the strengths of those principles are held in new ideas, naturally they're going to be secretive until they're ready to sell those ideas to consumers. Why spend so much work on something new only to give away the benefits of your creation tot he competition? It's dumb and they've learned their lesson.
 
God. Some people eat up tech demos and hype and some live off it.

Why do you care about the average Joe, and why can't you accept that the console industry follows Nintendo's moves? The best Sony can do is make their 1997 controller into a batarang, while MS can only add a button to the Wavebird... these guys will take any ideas they can get and profit from it.
 
I'm concerned about 1 thing that has to do with the Revolution. If it really is only 2 times the power or substantially different from PS3 and 360 you won't be seeing much in the way of ports or exclusives.

Business wise what is going to happen is that the majority of games are going to be developed for the minimum spec which is likely going to be the 360. They will then be slightly upgraded for the PS3. There is no way that the minimum spec is going to be Revolution if it is much weaker than the other 2 because porting up will be too much of a job.

In today's situation we see the majority of the games built for PS2 as the minimum spec and cross ported to GC and Xbox with minor upgrades. Some of these upgrades are just inherent to the system they are porting to such as improved framerates on the GC and Xbox just because there is more raw horse power available.

The same will hold true for next gen but the demands of the people and the current market having Xbox and PS2 as leaders will see the Revolution largely ignored as publishers fully expect history to repeat itself.

It is bad enough that developers are having to make a PSP version of their games as the art assets are wildly differen't from next generation. Put DS on top of this as yet another drastic change in assets and publishers are putting out so much more money for smaller return on their investment.

Hopefully the reports of a marginal increase in horse power are wrong and this issue goes away. It the machine itself and its delivery method and overall design is much differn't you'll probably see the machine ignored by publishers as once again a whole set of assets and design mechanics won't be portable to the other 2 machines that publishers already expect to be their bread and butter.
 
I think Nintendo did learn. As long as the controller isn't completely retarded like the GC's, it will be ok. Though I think they could only do something like the Rev only once. If they did it the second time, I wouldn't buy it... I think.
 
why can't you accept that the console industry follows Nintendo's moves? The best Sony can do is make their 1997 controller into a batarang, while MS can only add a button to the Wavebird... these guys will take any ideas they can get and profit from it.
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The industry isn't following Nintendo's moves. The industry tries to take the best possible ideas and run with them. Nintendo has had some good ideas that they've implemented with their controllers. Not creating them but standardizing them. The d-pad, the analog stick, controller vibration, now wireless. And they were early leaders in 2D (their best) and 3D (in a few areas) game design. The industry has benefited from these ideas, however, they are not following Nintendo.

Microsoft, more than anyone else last generation, standardized some great ideas. Xbox Live was a success and they've done a great job of thinking out what it should be in the future. It was the big push that was needed. Including a hard drive was a good idea that should be realized more in the next generation (with the help of Xbox Live) and hopefully it should standardize that feature. And this isn't really Microsoft's doing but kudos to them for realizing its value and making it a feature of Xenon. The mod scene's Xbox Media Center with Samba is fucking awesome. Living with 7 other people, half of which are always downloading something interesting to watch is great. Honestly, aside from Halo and Halo 2 it's the best thing about the Xbox. The thing that I'm most excited about, though, is XNA. Microsoft has truly impressive development tools. The XDK is a thing of beauty and XNA from all reports is a step above.

Sony should be given credit too for creating a good model business model that allowed 3rd parties to thrive, always having good hardware with a minimal number of flaws, bringing in tons of new gamers with its marketing, and standardizing disc media (thanks you).
 
silver said:
Once again, Nintendo remains too secretive to excite the average joe.
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the "average joe" doesn't even know about E3. that's why they're the "average joe".
 
Scrow said:
the "average joe" doesn't even know about E3. that's why they're the "average joe".
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bull. guys in my programming class watched the Sony press conference today during class, and were fucking PSYCHED over the graphics.

They talked about the 360, too.

Not once was revolution mentioned.
 
Monk said:
Yes they are the average joe...
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I'm pretty much the only one who doesn't treat the class like a slacker class.

I don't think any of them have read past page 10 of our java book. :lol
 
silver said:
Once again, Nintendo remains too secretive to excite the average joe.
Click to expand...

You do realize that part of what their secrecy does is get people to speculate...and when people speculate they talk.... about what? Nintendo. Revolution. Or whatever Nintendo topic is at hand. This thread proves it.
 
cubicle47b said:
The industry isn't following Nintendo's moves. The industry tries to take the best possible ideas and run with them. Nintendo has had some good ideas that they've implemented with their controllers. Not creating them but standardizing them. The d-pad, the analog stick, controller vibration, now wireless. And they were early leaders in 2D (their best) and 3D (in a few areas) game design. The industry has benefited from these ideas, however, they are not following Nintendo.

Microsoft, more than anyone else last generation, standardized some great ideas. Xbox Live was a success and they've done a great job of thinking out what it should be in the future. It was the big push that was needed. Including a hard drive was a good idea that should be realized more in the next generation (with the help of Xbox Live) and hopefully it should standardize that feature. And this isn't really Microsoft's doing but kudos to them for realizing its value and making it a feature of Xenon. The mod scene's Xbox Media Center with Samba is fucking awesome. Living with 7 other people, half of which are always downloading something interesting to watch is great. Honestly, aside from Halo and Halo 2 it's the best thing about the Xbox. The thing that I'm most excited about, though, is XNA. Microsoft has truly impressive development tools. The XDK is a thing of beauty and XNA from all reports is a step above.

Sony should be given credit too for creating a good model business model that allowed 3rd parties to thrive, always having good hardware with a minimal number of flaws, bringing in tons of new gamers with its marketing, and standardizing disc media (thanks you).
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What is this, damage control or just incomprehension? You're comparing the d-pad to X-box Live. One was a new idea for any medium, one wasn't even new for gaming. Hard drives were not new, multimedia capabilities were not new... these are all derivitives and multimedia doesn't even relate to games. You're trying to give Microsoft credit simply for the sake of supporting them.
 
Damn them for not hyping a product that isn't coming out until mid or late 2006!!

Damn them for being conservative in their estimates of system power!!

Damn them for not running their company as I would!!

Damn them for being Nintendo!!
 
What is this, damage control or just incomprehension? You're comparing the d-pad to X-box Live. One was a new idea for any medium, one wasn't even new for gaming. Hard drives were not new, multimedia capabilities were not new... these are all derivitives and multimedia doesn't even relate to games. You're trying to give Microsoft credit simply for the sake of supporting them.
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No, this isn't damage control. I'm talking about the direction the industry is taking. Guess what, Nintendo didn't invent analog control, vibration, or wireless controllers. They standardized just like Microsoft is helping standardize a lot of important pieces of the industry. They've brought a compelling model forward (honestly, Xbox Live is a step forward in online gaming) and others are following. To me, this is a lot more important than wireless controllers.

Or can you come up with anything else Nintendo did this generation?


ROFL I LEARN JARVA
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I aced assembly without cracking the book. You suck.

edit: Seriously, good for you for actually reading the book. I've never been able to force myself to do it. My C++ knowledge is rather shallow. Good thing I'm a .Net web app developer. You don't have to know anything except how to use dynamic controls and the page execution order. Well, and know about shit like sql injection and...
 
cubicle47b said:
No, this isn't damage control. I'm talking about the direction the industry is taking. Guess what, Nintendo didn't invent analog control, vibration, or wireless controllers. They standardized just like Microsoft is helping standardize a lot of important pieces of the industry. They've brought a compelling model forward (honestly, Xbox Live is a step forward in online gaming) and others are following. To me, this is a lot more important than wireless controllers.

Or can you come up with anything else Nintendo did this generation?




I aced assembly without cracking the book. You suck.
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Hey, it's my first programing language, and there's no online material (lessons, that is) to speak of.

You expect me to figure it out just by guess and check?

Edit: nm
2nd Edit: well, actually, that's not true. We did SQL the first semester.
 
silver said:
Once again, Nintendo will be late with unveiling their console for the full 100 percent, not to mention games.
Click to expand...
Sony unveiled their console and a prototype controller, along with a bunch of FMV movies (and a few which were real time).

Sony did better in the hype game, but I've got a bitter taste in my mouth now that it's known that those Killzone and Motor Storm movies were nothing but CG.
 
I swear Nintendo fans are like little kids that expect Santa Claus to bring tons of presents only to find out that it isn't real. EVERY FING WEEK I SWEAR.

Just get over Nintendo. They make some great games, but IMO for most gamers it doesn't warrant buying their console. I still do because I play lots of games, but I really would like Nintendo to spare me from buying 3 consoles next gen, and hell MS from 2...but even more so with Nintendo because they're making 2nd class hardware.
 
I think Zelda is very important for Nintendo and they wanted to keep their focus on the current generation, at least until after Zelda is released.

Much in the same way Microsoft did last year with Halo 2, they actually had a lot to show this time last year about the next Xbox but they prefered to stay focused on this generation, at least until after Halo 2 hit. And that was smart of them.

Like it or not Sony is scared of Microsoft, and that's why they are rushing the PS3 out of the gates. I think Nintendo could be reactive like that but it's just not something of their nature. The E3 showing was more to remind people in a subtle way, that besides X360 and PS3, there will be Revolution. They're not trying to battle but instead they're trying to construct.

When they came around with the Famicom they had a vision and they've realized that vision with great success and most of the development of the Famicom took place before the industry crash, so they weren't thinking in terms of coming in and stealing Atari's share with whatever business strategy and war plan, and they certainly aren't doing so now. I think before passing judgement on it I'll wait to see what it actually is, and while that doesn't happen I can be entertained watching Microsoft and Sony shoot eachother in the head, and then play some Zelda and FFXII.
 
Once again, Nintendo will be late with unveiling their console for the full 100 percent, not to mention games. Once again, Nintendo remains too secretive to excite the average joe. Why has Nintendo not learned? Why didn't they create a demo reel with a few well-known characters? Why not show off the "revolution"? It's not like MS or Sony will change their consoles accordingly.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the battering that Microsoft's XBox 360 has taken for revealing all and going up against the PS3 hype machine? The same thing would have happened to Nintendo had they revealed their system. Basically Sony had to give out their specs and demos to hurt XBox 360's release. Nintendo knew that, so releasing their own info would just be a waste. It would be going up against 2 other system unveiling's and would get lost in the crowd. Better to keep their unveiling for later when they can have the show to themselves. After all MS and Sony can't unveil their consoles again now, so they no longer have the ammo to spoil Nintendo's party when they go public about their new system. I do agree they should have a spaceworld in a few months though to full announce their own machine. But then they did that with GC.. so I don't necessarily think that was a bad thing or a lesson that needed to be learned.
 
GaimeGuy said:
I'm pretty much the only one who doesn't treat the class like a slacker class.

I don't think any of them have read past page 10 of our java book. :lol
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Woah, programming is considered a slacker class? Is it really that easy? Maybe I should take one. I really don't have any interest in it, but if it's easy, I guess it'd be a nice skill to have.
 
Woah, programming is considered a slacker class? Is it really that easy? Maybe I should take one. I really don't have any interest in it, but if it's easy, I guess it'd be a nice skill to have.
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It's a slacker class in high school. In college usually 50% of the people who major in computer science drop out of it within the first year (you can still be a slacker if you're pretty good, though).
 
cubicle47b said:
It's a slacker class in high school. In college usually 50% of the people who major in computer science drop out of it within the first year (you can still be a slacker if you're pretty good, though).
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Ding.
 
revo_6l.jpg


But it looks really nice.
 
Maybe one of the reasons they didt show a demo reel of any games is they change there minds to much to do that.

Look at what happen when they did that with the gamecube, people are still going nuts over mario 128, and people still bring up perfect dark.


They don't want to have to answer to the press on why did't they do this and what not, so they leave it as is..


Also nintendo believes i think that the less people see the more intersted they become
 
cubicle47b said:
It's a slacker class in high school. In college usually 50% of the people who major in computer science drop out of it within the first year (you can still be a slacker if you're pretty good, though).
Click to expand...

Ah, screw it then. I never study. :(
 
Sony, by simply announcing some specs and showing the system design, destroyed whatever hype the Xbox 360 had gained going into E3. Sony's doing to Microsoft exactly what they did to Sega. Announce the specs, and people will wait.

So, why would Nintendo announce specs for their system after the fact? Even if the Rev is exactly the same as the PS3 hardware-wise, what advantage would Nintendo have announcing that right now? None. The system is a 2006 release. The task of hopefully enticing consumers to wait was pretty much accomplished by Sony. There was no need to do anything more.
 
I think one of the bigger problem's with Nintendo's perceived value (or mindshare & image) is the Nintendo fans who piss'n'moan when they don't get exactly what they want. A non-Nintendo gamer will take notice when a Nintendo-gamer complains of lack of games, Nintendo's "bad" moves or things that are negative. Instead of complaining we should be revelling in the games that ONLY come to our system 'cos they're made by Nintendo.

Myself, as a Nintendo only gamer, I took pics of all three systems into work and instead of ragging on Nintendo for not showing games, specs or the controller I talked about the NES, SNES & N64 BC, the WiFi, USB, SD Card & DVD support and I'll tell you, people are interested. Average everyday Joe people. Not that I'm into anecdotal BS, but I remember when I tried to show off pics the GCN when it was unveiled and the same people were...just...NOT into it.

As Nintendo fans we've gotta be possitive and get people into Nintendo games again, we need to stop pissing'n'moaning about things that are realistically not gonna change overnight. And really, what's there to complain about? Nintendo has made a serious looking system, with industry standerd features and even without knowing about the controller, specs, games yet we do know about the "20 years of BC" feature which is nice and new to us.

Waiting sucks, not knowing all the details sucks...but does it matter what we know now if the system isn't even coming out for a year anyways? Be possitive while being realistic.
 
But haven't Nintendo 'won' this E3? Based on 'topics-made-for-the-company-in-question-and-how-long-they-are' ;)
I mean, how many pages was Thursdayton?
 
the only ones that haven't learned shit are the pissy, overdramatic fanboys. Buy the system that has the games you want to play, regardless of the name on it, and shut the fuck up. Its actually a very simple process.
 
GaimeGuy said:
bull. guys in my programming class watched the Sony press conference today during class, and were fucking PSYCHED over the graphics.

They talked about the 360, too.

Not once was revolution mentioned.
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okay... think about this. they're in a programming class watching press conferences from E3... these are not your "average joes".

edit: oops, should've read everyone's replies after your post... covering old ground here :|
 
Ninja Scooter said:
the only ones that haven't learned shit are the pissy, overdramatic fanboys. Buy the system that has the games you want to play, regardless of the name on it, and shut the fuck up. Its actually a very simple process.
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Stop making sense. Didn't you get the memo? That's not allowed here...
 
Ninja Scooter said:
Buy the system that has the games you want to play, regardless of the name on it, and shut the fuck up. Its actually a very simple process.
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You sir, are very wise. I think this should be a sticky on every single forum where games are a major topic of discussion. It is the most sensible thing said on these formus that I have seen lately.

Well done. :)
 
Ninja Scooter said:
the only ones that haven't learned shit are the pissy, overdramatic fanboys. Buy the system that has the games you want to play, regardless of the name on it, and shut the fuck up. Its actually a very simple process.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I feel. This ridiculous reaction needs to stop. Get over it people, Nintendo is accepting, if not embracing their place in the industry as a niche platform. They are the Apple of videogames, and that is not a bad thing.
 
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