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[human5892]

and all of these facts have little to do with a possibility of Nintendo going 3rd party anytime soon.

We're on two different planes, here.

The article in question is detailing why Nintendo is in fact number one in hardware sales. The author goes out on a limb to chide people who claim that Nintendo is not number one, when clearly those people are referring to the console market exclusively. My point is that everybody knows that if you include the freaking Game Boy Nintendo sells the most units, and that that is completely irrelevant to what people mean when they say Nintendo is doing poorly.

You are not talking about Sega, but some mainstream press will compare, and the target here was battling mainstream perception. "Badly performing Gamecube" compared to NES/SNES/N64 would not be inaccurate, but the mainstream press rarely stops there.

So the article is a crusade to get the mainstream press to add the qualifier "But remember, Nintendo, despite sluggish sales of their GameCube console, rapidly-dwindling third-party support and alarmingly few games on the horizon, is still number one if you add in Game Boy sales"? Yes, that's what I thought, and yes, it's ridiculous.

BTW, while it is true that Nintendo isn't lagging too far behind the Xbox, that's a statement requiring some qualifiers; the GC is officially $50 cheaper, and unofficially even cheaper than that with all the system+game giveaways that I see stores doing all the time.

 

[AntoneM]

the reason Nintendo is doomed and MS is a success in the console arena, despite the fact that both have sold a similar amount of hardware is that MS had exactly 0% of the console makert when it launched the XBox, Nintendo had about 35% of the console market when it launched the Gamecube. For MS to even be near Nintendo is one hell of an achievment.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

CaptainOlimar2: they think im batshit insane
CaptainOlimar2: I pimped PN03 and Kirby
CaptainOlimar2: they hated that

haha, that's great olimario. :lol :lol

 

[Amir0x]

APOLOGIZE FOR HIM, OLIMARIO. IMMEDIATELY. COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.

 

[FightyF]

It's hilarious how Olimario was trying to maybe show that Nintendo wasn't doing so bad after all, that the stuff he posted maybe had a point, etc.

But then he gets owned. It never fails.

 

[olimario]

It's hilarious how Olimario was trying to maybe show that Nintendo wasn't doing so bad after all, that the stuff he posted maybe had a point, etc.

But then he gets owned. It never fails.

Wait... What?
I think you're confused.

 

[Alcibiades]

We're on two different planes, here.

yes we are, two different topics I guess...

The article in question is detailing why Nintendo is in fact number one in hardware sales. The author goes out on a limb to chide people who claim that Nintendo is not number one, when clearly those people are referring to the console market exclusively. My point is that everybody knows that if you include the freaking Game Boy Nintendo sells the most units, and that that is completely irrelevant to what people mean when they say Nintendo is doing poorly.

Well then people should make it more clear what they mean when they say Nintendo is doing poorly and stop the references to possibly going 3rd party, especially if it is coming from videogame sites. Journalism is very much about the details, and if readership is supposed to assume what is in the author's when when writing it I would say that is bad journalism. Also, even if they were referring to poor GCN sales, any talk of going 3rd party is ridiculous by all educated guesstimates, yet that doesn't stop the mentions.

So the article is a crusade to get the mainstream press to add the qualifier "But remember, Nintendo, despite sluggish sales of their GameCube console, rapidly-dwindling third-party support and alarmingly few games on the horizon, is still number one if you add in Game Boy sales"? Yes, that's what I thought, and yes, it's ridiculous.

The mainstream press doesn't have to add "Nintendo is #1" or even do rankings, but it should definitely give a clear indication of the stability of Nintendo's overall business and profitability if they are going to mention going 3rd-party as a possibility. If it reports "Nintendo is doing bad" without context (compared to NES/SNES/PS2 but not doing bad compared to Saturn/DC and either way still a profitable venture compared to XBox) then I'd say that is irresponsible.

BTW, while it is true that Nintendo isn't lagging too far behind the Xbox, that's a statement requiring some qualifiers; the GC is officially $50 cheaper, and unofficially even cheaper than that with all the system+game giveaways that I see stores doing all the time.

come on, even you have to admit that the qualifiers you mention cancel themselves out.

Actually the XBox is cheaper (the same way PSP is cheaper) when you consider all that is included in the package, a harddrive, broadband adaptor, DVD compatibility, etc... It seems Microsoft's package is more "value" on the hardware level alone.

Also, the XBox has had giveaways in the past, from old sports games to Brute Force, stores have periodically given aways games with the system, separate from the bundles Microsoft does during the holidays.

 

[FightyF]

Wait... What?
I think you're confused.

Or is he?

 

[Kobun Heat]

THIS POST IS (C) COPYRIGHT KOBUN HEAT IND LLC

YOU CANNOT QUOTE IT

 

[evilromero]

Can't we handle this like real men? Let's just agree that before E3 begins we'll fight to the death with nothing but our fists. He who stands victorious can maintain that his system is the best.

 

[human5892]

Well then people should make it more clear what they mean when they say Nintendo is doing poorly and stop the references to possibly going 3rd party, especially if it is coming from videogame sites. Journalism is very much about the details, and if readership is supposed to assume what is in the author's when when writing it I would say that is bad journalism. Also, even if they were referring to poor GCN sales, any talk of going 3rd party is ridiculous by all educated guesstimates, yet that doesn't stop the mentions.

Well, certainly Nintendo aren't going third party anytime soon. That much I can agree on. That just doesn't seem to be the point of the article in question.

The mainstream press doesn't have to add "Nintendo is #1" or even do rankings, but it should definitely give a clear indication of the stability of Nintendo's overall business and profitability if they are going to mention going 3rd-party as a possibility. If it reports "Nintendo is doing bad" without context (compared to NES/SNES/PS2 but not doing bad compared to Saturn/DC and either way still a profitable venture compared to XBox) then I'd say that is irresponsible.

That would be nice in an ideal world, but in a mainstream publication where space about videogames is limited, realistically they're probably only going to be able to report on what is immediately evident -- that is, GameCube selling the worst of the three current consoles and the other negatives I mentioned -- without delving into comparisons to old Sega hardware or profit margins that the average reader isn't going to care about anyway.

Actually the XBox is cheaper (the same way PSP is cheaper) when you consider all that is included in the package, a harddrive, broadband adaptor, DVD compatibility, etc... It seems Microsoft's package is more "value" on the hardware level alone.

Also, the XBox has had giveaways in the past, from old sports games to Brute Force, stores have periodically given aways games with the system, separate from the bundles Microsoft does during the holidays.

Fair enough.

 

[Andvary]

THIS POST IS (C) COPYRIGHT KOBUN HEAT IND LLC

YOU CANNOT QUOTE IT

:lol

Ooops!

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Fritz Chestnut (10:14:19 PM): i'm from GAF. I think you're right
Fritz Chestnut (10:14:34 PM): great article, btw
Pt styls 4 (10:14:53 PM): oh yes i'm sure
Fritz Chestnut (10:15:34 PM): have alot of people jumped on you on aim?
Pt styls 4 (10:15:40 PM): no
Pt styls 4 (10:15:53 PM): olimario set me up and wrote up an aim conversation with me
Pt styls 4 (10:16:00 PM): he's been nursing a grudge against me for a while
Fritz Chestnut (10:16:21 PM): whatever, didn't want to start anything, just wanted to say I think you are right
Pt styls 4 (10:16:29 PM): what's your username?
Pt styls 4 (10:16:50 PM): i'm not a member there
Fritz Chestnut (10:17:03 PM): i just lurk
Pt styls 4 (10:17:40 PM): same here
Pt styls 4 (10:19:02 PM): i bet several people think i'm right but won't respond because it's just a bash-coley fest right now
Pt styls 4 (10:19:13 PM): i'm pretty sure as well 90% didn't read the article because they make baseless claims abou it
Fritz Chestnut (10:20:08 PM): HAHAHA, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU I THINK YOU ARE A NUT LOLLERSKATES
“Pt styls 4” signed off at 10:20:16 PM.

hahaha that was fun.

 

[monchi-kun]

because TV's and Windows are videogames, right?

well, you can't play most PC games oyut there w/o windows....

 

[shpankey]

CaptainOlimar2: they think im batshit insane
CaptainOlimar2: I pimped PN03 and Kirby
CaptainOlimar2: they hated that
Pt styls 4: i hope you get aids and die you pig
CaptainOlimar2: so now they disregard everything I say
Pt styls 4: i hope you choke on a sausage and suffocate you nazi

Good Lord! :lol

 

[Drinky Crow]

Drinky Crow approves.

 

[Mejilan]

What a dumb-fuck article THAT was.

Almost makes me ashamed of my avatar.

Almost... it's so darn cute!

 

[Hitokage]

In regards to Olimario's quoted log in which the author demands that all excerpts be removed:

Fair use. Go fuck yourself. - GAF Administration

 

[shpankey]

that's some GAF mod 0wnag3! :lol

 

[Hitokage]

Alcibiades: Don't forget Nintendo can go third party in the console market while still making their own handheld hardware.

 

[SickBoy]

Nintendo is doing fine as a company, the Gamecube is a huge disappointment (although I've had enough fun with mine) and who knows what they'll do if their next console flops.... but I don't see them going third-party at home any time in the near future.

This guy, however, is an arrogant tool.

I don't think anyone believes when they read about Nintendo's woes that Nintendo's entire operations are being discussed. I think the magnifying glass is pretty clearly on the Gamecube.

There’s no way around it: what you’re about to read will surprise you. Some of you may want to print this article off and read it in a quiet, secluded place. Others will want to chew in short bites, taking large breaths and gulps of water during breaks. Undoubtedly, this article will challenge many of your preconceived notions about the Big N, and possibly change the way you see the video games systems war forever.

I mean, come on... everyone who cares knows exactly what he's torturously trotting out...

Call it laziness or just plain dishonesty, but the mainstream press in America has successfully twisted the facts about the hardware sales race

The evil mainstream press. I think there's room for improvement in game magazines, but I don't think anyone's being deliberately dishonest. Do you?

This guy even quotes another person writing for the same site as someone who's got it wrong:

Even some of our past editorial writers, such as Phillip Levin, have talked about Nintendo’s market dominance as long gone. “Nintendo can be number one again. But is Nintendo willing to do it? We’ll have to wait and see.”

...of course, if you check out that article, he's talking about the successor to the GameCube... in which case Nintendo is anything but number one.

I hope I never read a diatribe by this guy about politics. I think this is infuriatingly stupid enough.

 

[Alcibiades]

Alcibiades: Don't forget Nintendo can go third party in the console market while still making their own handheld hardware.

true and that possible scenario did cross my mind, but Nintendo has said that the day they get out of the hardware business is the day they get out of the games business.

Also, it wouldn't be beneificial to help two companies gain profit through your games while one of them is also competing against your handheld hardware.

 

[Tellaerin]

true and that possible scenario did cross my mind, but Nintendo has said that the day they get out of the hardware business is the day they get out of the games business.

Yeah, and Mikami was going to cut his head off if RE4 came to PS2, too.

 

[xsarien]

THIS POST IS (C) COPYRIGHT KOBUN HEAT IND LLC

YOU CANNOT QUOTE IT

HA HA!

 

[Robert-GCA]

lol...Jonathan Coley. He is so delusional. Some of our current staff used to work for him and would agree. One of the most immature people out there. He's 17 by now I think. Not that age means much, but just to give ya an idea.

 

[Kobun Heat]

HA HA!

NOW YOU BETTER LOOK OUT

 

[GhaleonEB]

NOW YOU BETTER LOOK

Since I only quoted an excerpt of your post, I'm exempt, right?

 

[DDayton]

Can't we handle this like real men? Let's just agree that before E3 begins we'll fight to the death with nothing but our fists. He who stands victorious can maintain that his system is the best.

If we are battling over systems, we'd better be able to battle with[/b] our systems... and GameCubes make lovely knuckle-dusters, thanks to those handles.

 

[fse]

The numbers are correct. It tells you it is gcn+gba. Learn how to read.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The numbers are correct. It tells you it is gcn+gba. Learn how to read.

Who is that directed at? I don't see anyone in this thread that doesn't understand that. We just find it a laughable comparison.

 

[Hitokage]

The numbers are correct. It tells you it is gcn+gba. Learn how to read.

Learn how to follow an argument.

 

[Dilbert]

Learn how to follow an argument.

Where did his "posting like an uninformed retard" tag go?

I swear, demeaning tags are like a public service to those of us who don't visit the Gaming Forum often enough to know the fools by name.

 

[fse]

it was meant for those posters who didn't read the article. Oh well.

 

[Folder]

Can't we handle this like real men? Let's just agree that before E3 begins we'll fight to the death with nothing but our fists. He who stands victorious can maintain that his system is the best.

That is the dream.
We will sposor the event.
It can be held on the beach.
If we build it, they will come...

 

[AssMan]

Wait a minute. Why isn't JasonNsider posting? I think he wrote the article! :lol

 

[Lionheart]

Wait a minute. Why isn't JasonNsider posting? I think he wrote the article! :lol

Nintendoinsider.com is not N-Sider.com.

 

[radioheadrule83]

oh man... the idea that Nintendo know how to move enough hardware/software to make lots and lots of money (& be very successful) is something that mainstream press do sometimes ignore, but I think it's better left for Nintendo to convince people of that with actions and continuing change rather than a fan doing it by typing up an essay. The revelationary style opened him right up to attack too. You can see why us Nintendo fans get a bad rep.

Just a quick moment to exchange with max_cool:

Microsoft may have had 0%, but did you really expect that the biggest company of the world, with endless resources and a wealth of software business experience and total domination in their field was gonna have any trouble? They spent over $2 billion on XBL alone for fucks sake.

I say Nintendo have done well to do as well as they have in light of Microsofts bombastic entry. The Gamecube falls right inbetween the most powerful console, and the one with the best support. It's not online. It doesn't get many of the games that the other consoles get. It's commonly found in purple and has a handle. It's the subject of all sorts of jibes and protests. The only reason it's done as well as it has is because of Nintendo's reputation -- they've garnered some good exclusives with select Japanese third parties, and they still make some of the best software themselves. The range of stuff to choose from represents an improvement over N64, but Sony dominance and Microsofts entry has made it harder for them. Here's to more competition and more continual Nintendo improvement! There's stuff on Nintendo machines you still can't get anywhere else... whether the haters choose to believe it or not.

 

[KeithFranklin]

true and that possible scenario did cross my mind, but Nintendo has said that the day they get out of the hardware business is the day they get out of the games business.

See the thing is about that quote is that Nintendo is a publicly traded company and the stockholders would sue any officer of Nintendo that actually made a decision like that. So that quote is nothing but rhetoric. Ultimatly it will come down to a profit decision. I am sure many times Nintendo leaders sit down and hear reports on how can the maximize return on investment. Do we continue to make console hardware (not handhelds) and software for it or do we move forward and do what we do best and that is make software?

 

[Kobun Heat]

And in those discussions, they've just been finding what they knew to be true -- that making the game hardware gives them such tremendous marketing leverage on their software that they make more money by doing both.

It doesn't matter what "place" they're in as long as they continue to make more money as a hardware manufacturer than they would otherwise. And even then, the upside would have to be TREMENDOUS for them to consider such a radical business move (which, let's remember, would involve them firing a whole shit of a lot of people, shutting factories down, and all kinds of catastrophic change).

It's not like there's a switch on the wall that says "third-party" and all they have to do is flip it. They're the number-two manufacturer of game hardware in their home country; it's just not feasible that they'd leave that business. Even in third place, it's lucrative.

 

[midnightguy]

of course, Nintendo will probably never go third party. in fact, they've done just the opposite. they've gone 3rd hardware pillar :lol

with at least 2 more completely new hardware platforms due out in the next 2 years: Revolution and the next GameBoy. not counting more hardware revisions of GBA, NDS or the recently launched iQue in Japan (or China, i forget)

Nintendo is firing out hardware on all fronts. never-before have they acted in a way that is the total opposite of going third party.

 

[Stinkles]

This thread is aces, however, it needs more gasoline:

I understand some aspects of system-loyalty, because when you're a kid with no income, it's a big investment financially, and maybe emotionally. What I don't understand is why you'd apply that loyalty to a company that continues to dilute its franchises with weaker and weaker sequels, to the point where its once-untopplable franchise has been effectively dead since the last platform. Nintendo was AWESOME. Fucking untouchable, but now it's not. So get over it.

You don't owe those fucks anything, they're all evil corporations trying to get every last penny out of you, it's just that one or two of them have figured out that the best way to do that is to give you what YOU want, not what they want to shove down your throat.

 

[Azrael]

CaptainOlimar2: they think im batshit insane
CaptainOlimar2: I pimped PN03 and Kirby
CaptainOlimar2: they hated that
Pt styls 4: i hope you get aids and die you pig
CaptainOlimar2: so now they disregard everything I say
Pt styls 4: i hope you choke on a sausage and suffocate you nazi

Michael Savage runs a Nintendo fansite in his spare time?

 

[_Angelus_]

This thread is aces, however, it needs more gasoline:

I understand some aspects of system-loyalty, because when you're a kid with no income, it's a big investment financially, and maybe emotionally. What I don't understand is why you'd apply that loyalty to a company that continues to dilute its franchises with weaker and weaker sequels, to the point where its once-untopplable franchise has been effectively dead since the last platform. Nintendo was AWESOME. Fucking untouchable, but now it's not. So get over it.

You don't owe those fucks anything, they're all evil corporations trying to get every last penny out of you, it's just that one or two of them have figured out that the best way to do that is to give you what YOU want, not what they want to shove down your throat.

Excellent post there. I feel the same way about them,theyre a shadow of what they once were.

I dont ask for much but when they screw up StarFox(blame Namco all you want but Nintendo should have known this thing was not up to the quality of this franchise here) plus Mario SunShine was just okish this generation. Selling off RARE,letting Factor 5 get away like that,Eternal Darkness being mediocer,Silicone Knights screwing up the Metral Gear remake,I mean what a waste. Nintendo oversaw all these games and seemed to not give a damn about their overall top AAA quality. I still dunno what theyre thinking by not releasing a Pilot Wings game this generatinon,but then who's to say it would turn out great? So maybe its best to wait and see on its outcome for Revolution. I tell you they have become less and less a factor for what I buy when it comes to gaming. Aside from the Metroid Prime series they haven't done that much to deliver for my money this generation.