Spyder_Monkey
Banned
By that logic, I guess you can say Metroid Primes 2 and 3 were risk averse then. If Retro turned into a Donkey Kong factory then I can see you're point, but they only made two games in that series.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Nintendo Switch Presentation - January 12th
- Thread starter robotrock
- Start date
By that logic, I guess you can say Metroid Primes 2 and 3 were risk averse then. If Retro turned into a Donkey Kong factory then I can see you're point, but they only made two games in that series.
TheMoon
Member
But don't you see, it's confirmation that Switch will be even WORSE than Wii U! Because nothing can ever be good or even "fine" with Nintendo things!
Need dat drama, 24/7.
Dark Cloud
Member
How is it a waste to get ports? What's the point in Xbox One getting ports? Is Project Sonic 2017 a waste? If you were expecting a Nintendo system to get every third party game your expectations weren't properly set.
Goddamn lazy devs sitting around in their bean bag chairs, eating cheetos, settling for near-perfection rather than attempting transcendent revolution. What is this industry coming to!
Based on Wii and Wii U, it's very easy to see there's a huge mountain to climb for nintendo to get any 3rd party support on switch.
And for what we know it's much weaker than xbone so porting games might not even work.
TheDinoman
Member
Let's face it, not many people around these parts really respect Donkey Kong Country as a series. I always felt like that to them, it's just another kiddy mascot platformer with stupid monkeys in it. Something like Metroid on the other hand appeals much more to their tastes and demographic in that regard. This is a factor into why a lot of people also want Retro to branch out and make a new, more mature IP than the usual Nintendo fare.
I'm fine with playing it on PS4 right now, as I own one already.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Can you imagine if Gaf acted like that during the Super Nintendo. "Why is Rare making another platformer? We already have plenty of those. C'mon Rare, you're wasting talent make another Killer Instinct." Without realizing DKC 2 is still the best game they made.
We've also had OsirisBlack saying, months ago, that the NX (as it was known at the time) wouldn't have had problems in getting ports from PS4 and One, as well as Matt stating how technical specs won't be what stops Switch from getting games. Honestly, the main criteria for ports this time will be the ROI publishers and developers get from their releases on the platform, much more than in the past considering how the power-gap, while still present, is potentially a lot less relevant than before.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Of course some people do, such as those involved with launching the system. And Emily's proven to have contacts in the industry.
But I was clarifying I don't believe she was presenting her information as fact as opposed to opinion. I don't know how much--or little--Emily specifically knows in this case.
Just sounds like she's not expecting the library to get much western 3rd party support like she's mentioned before.
AquaWateria
Member
Which IMO is stupid because to me as long as they make good quality games that's what really matters. Plus people really need to stop with that kiddy bullshit and that mature doesn't always mean good.
Seriously the fact people see Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze as a waste rather than a glorious fucking game is dumb. If Retro wants to make Donkey Kong games rather than mature games than so be it.
Dark Cloud
Member
I think out of all of Nintendos IPs Metroid and Zelda are the two that appeal to non Nintendo fans (atleast in the west)
I really think Nintendo should have a big western third party dev make a new Metroid game and they should have Retro make a WRPG or take Star Tropics and turn it into a Tomb Raider/Uncharted type of game with realistic visuals.
Nintendo really needs to expand their portfolio if they're not going to get those third party games to attract the PS4 and X1 fan.
The problem is Retro is a 1 team studio.
We got Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Killer Instinct 1 & 2 (Gold), Ken Griffey, Jr.'s Winning Run, Blast Corps, Goldeneye 007, Diddy Kong Racing, plus a few Game Boy titles, from Rare in the time between DKC Returns & Tropical Freeze.
MrSaturn99
Member
Pretty much. Still loved it and was excited by its reveal but in general, Nintendo was way too focused on sequels as opposed to new ideas.
donkey kong 64 2
it must be nice to dream
grank kirkhope for dk rap part 2 plz
TheDinoman
Member
To be fair, back in the day Rare had multiple teams working on multiple games at once. It was okay that they were working on a colorful mascot platforming collectathon game like Banjo-Kazooie because they also had other teams working on more mature games like Killer Instinct, Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. With Retro, on the other hand, we only get one game from them every couple of years, so honestly it's not too hard to blame Metroid fans or people wanting a new western oriented IP getting mad that Retro is doing "fucking Donkey Kong".
Anybody expecting otherwise is kidding themselves.
AquaWateria
Member
Oh god I don't want Retro to make a Uncharted type of game.
That would be a nightmare.
Edit: Not trying to say Uncharted series is bad but I'd hate the fact for Retro to focus on visuals rather gameplay.
AtomicShroom
Member
And boom!
What's funny is that people actually started throwing that complaint at Rare in the N64 days, especially at Conker back when it was still Twelve Tales. Between B-K,and the upcoming B-T and DK64, people were all like "ANOTHER cute platformer?! Can't you guys make something else?"
I don't think any of us are. Not just because of the Switch's power, but also because of the audience it'll likely attract.
AquaWateria
Member
I mean as long as we get Japanese, Sega, Capcom, and Square Enix games I'm fine.
Dark Cloud
Member
I think the visuals are a must. Trust me I love all the artstyles Nintendo comes up with, but they don't have any realistic looking games and that's a big sector Nintendo is missing out on. That's a big fanbase Nintendo isn't getting and since they're not getting these games from third party they really should start making it themselves.
There are too many people who care about realistic visuals and I think NCL should allow Retro to make a new franchise or take Star Tropics and turn it into something like an Uncharted or WRPG with realistic visuals. Btw I do love Uncharted. It's my favorite Sony franchise.
I'm only saying one franchise. I'm not saying this is all Retro will do forever lol.
Not many here, but a lot of the buzz on the big reddit threads for the reveal were speculating about getting portable 3rd party games like Witcher and Rocket League (though that one is an indie at least). That's part of the message they sent by showing the likes of Skyrim and the nba game, not to mention that big ol' third party list that had Fromsoft on it among others.
Aldric
Member
Tropical Freeze suffered from the overabundance of 2D platformers on the Wii U. When it was announced the system had already launched with NSMBU, Rayman Legends and Yoshi's Wooly World were in the pipeline and TF was revealed alongside 3D World which many considered a disappointment and simply not what they expected from a big 3D Mario game. Fans wanted Retro to deliver a different kind of experience just like Monolith would do with their ambitious JRPG and that's why so many people were disappointed, it had nothing to with "respect".
Father_Brain
Banned
Yep, this. All the more so given how little Nintendo has invested in Western first-party development these days.
Oh, c'mon.
DKC occupies the same genre and general aesthetic sense as a number of other games in Nintendo's first-party library. Metroid Prime does not.
Personally, I would have preferred (and would still prefer) a new IP or a revival of something like Mach Rider or StarTropics to MP4, and obviously DKC sold much better than MP3 (hence why the former must have seemed the safe bet on paper), but TF was just the wrong game at the wrong time. If colorful family-friendly side-scrolling platformers are a significant factor in your hardware purchase decisions, odds are you don't need to be sold on Nintendo hardware.
I mean, I commend Nintendo for giving it a shot. But when it comes down to it, most people who want western third party games have systems that already satisfy their needs. Maybe if the final specs for the Switch aren't too far off from the Xbox One, perhaps said western developers could justify a Switch port for the sake of portability, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Dark Cloud
Member
I've heard too many people who didn't buy the Wii U say "it was filled with platformers and there was no variety".
I hate to say it, but it's true. I loved all of them of course, but damn Nintendo start diversifying more. It's like they got cheap. It doesn't help when you turn Chibi Robo into a 2D Platformer at all...
And people want Retro to be a big ambitious studio. Nothing against TF (I think it could be the greatest 2D Platformer), but it's not very ambitious. It felt more safe. Monolith made a very ambitious game in XCX. People want Retro to be that given their high quality games and it doesn't help that they're the ONLY relevant first party Nintendo studio has in the west. (Yes I know they have some second party, but those guys are smaller)
Nintendo should seriously expand them. They need more western thinking developers that are first party.
I hate to say it, but it's true. I loved all of them of course, but damn Nintendo start diversifying more. It's like they got cheap. It doesn't help when you turn Chibi Robo into a 2D Platformer at all...
And people want Retro to be a big ambitious studio. Nothing against TF (I think it could be the greatest 2D Platformer), but it's not very ambitious. It felt more safe. Monolith made a very ambitious game in XCX. People want Retro to be that given their high quality games and it doesn't help that they're the ONLY relevant first party Nintendo studio has in the west. (Yes I know they have some second party, but those guys are smaller)
Nintendo should seriously expand them. They need more western thinking developers that are first party.
Milly Osworth
Member
Has anyone discussed this?
Ports from 10 year old systems? Thanks Obama.
My wishlist for StarTropics Switch would be:
- Awesome campaign
- Mike Jones aged up to be a cool adult instead of a kid/teen
- Can play it co-op local or online
- Great looking game that pushes the system
- Fun voice acting with good banter
- Guns mixed with other fun melee weapons, sci-fi lasers, etc.
- Mix of action setpieces, exploration, and puzzles
- A more realistic version of the yo-yo weapon (bolas?) but the yo-yo as a secret unlockable
- Multiplayer
- Awesome campaign
- Mike Jones aged up to be a cool adult instead of a kid/teen
- Can play it co-op local or online
- Great looking game that pushes the system
- Fun voice acting with good banter
- Guns mixed with other fun melee weapons, sci-fi lasers, etc.
- Mix of action setpieces, exploration, and puzzles
- A more realistic version of the yo-yo weapon (bolas?) but the yo-yo as a secret unlockable
- Multiplayer
TheDinoman
Member
It still really pains me how Next Level Games ended up getting anchored to Federation Force. Mario Strikers, Punch-Out!! and Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon were all great. I always kinda viewed them as a mini-Retro Studios, somewhat. Which is all the more unfortunate with how FF turned out.
Yup, I really don't even think it's worth getting your hopes up at this point.
The more interesting discussion is: Can Nintendo succeed without strong third party support? Is their first party IP alone enough to succeed?
I don't know if Switch sells over 30 million units worldwide with the same old Nintendo games and no western third party support.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Again I need to clarify, while it's likely third party will not be as strong as everyone wants it to be, what Emily said does not mean she knows what will be announced on the Switch for the launch year, just that the Switch's position in the market can make it a haven for easier ports of older games and middleware indies.
Skittzo0413
Member
Is everybody already forgetting that Nintendo's first Switch trailer heavily featured Skyrim remastered? I don't know what that means in terms of support, but it shows that Nintendo is at the very least acknowledging and trying to appear more attractive for those who like western third party games.
Why guns when you have a yo-yo? The yo-yo should act more like a whip/grappling hook weapon or tool, and it should be very much the main weapon and focus in gameplay. I'd love a light hearted third person adventure game like this.
Why guns when you have a yo-yo? The yo-yo should act more like a whip/grappling hook weapon or tool, and it should be very much the main weapon and focus in gameplay. I'd love a light hearted third person adventure game like this.
Father_Brain
Banned
She's said before that she's talked to a number of third parties, so while she obviously doesn't know the entire software lineup, I don't think it's just conjecture on her part.
Skittzo0413
Member
If you look at her follow up tweets she's not saying not to expect modern western third party support, just that the support will likely skew more to the Japanese/indie side.
While I agree with you, I believe the development model used by Nintendo emphasizes small and medium teams with controlled budgets. With small teams colaborating for the big games or simply expanding the dev times (see MonolithSoft and XCX), it's a pretty different way of doing things than your average AAA third party projects.
I would love if the company invested in the growth of certain studios so they can tackle multiple projects at a time, but that goes against their corporate culture.
I have to admit I don't know how big are the new EPD teams, but as the main development force, they need to have a proper size to carry different projects at the same time.
Dark Cloud
Member
It sucks they got to put to that. They were put in a bad situation. Hopefully, they're making a new Luigis Mansion. I love LM. I would love to see them expand on it more. Even Super Mario Strikers from them is good.
Luigis Mansion is a great IP Nintendo came up with. It should've been on the Wii U. I know it made more money on the 3DS, but man games like that I would really liked on the Wii U. Anyways, this is what's great about the Switch being a hybrid. No matter console or handheld fan you'll get it and it makes the library look good.
Nintendo always says it's about the software. Then they should promote growth, especially in the west. Spend a little more money for once and grow Retro. One thing I'm hoping with Kimishima is he promotes growth and more ideas outside of Japan and even the younger guys at Japan.
Glass Rebel
Member
What Emily said is pretty much what I expect from the device. I ain't even mad tbh. If it's gonna be 3DS + Wii U + Vita, that's more than enough to complement my PC.
That's what I want really.
1. It's an old game remastered, exactly what we're figuring might commonplace for third party support on the platform
2. Nintendo has done nothing in the last 10 years to make me believe that suddenly they "get" how to make an attractive platform for western third parties. I've done the "lets just wait and see" song and dance pre-launch too many times at this point. With Switch, I'm assuming the worst. It's gonna have shit third party support, and I'm probably right. If I'm wrong, great! But I'm probably right
TheMoon
Member
This whole platformer thing is only true if all you buy is 80s Nintendo franchises and categorically ignore all the other non-platformers because they're not based on 80s and 90s Nintendo franchises. As evidenced by most of them not selling all that great compared to those supposed "ugh another one" platformers.
Da-Kid
Member
What if Nintendo announced that DLC in MK8 was a test and announced SUPER SMASH RACERS!!
The difference to Mario Kart:
Karts get damaged and have a durability gauge that either decrease or increases depending on your customization options. More durable parts adds more armor less speed, may add other buffs and nerfs. All based on a weight system.
Once your Karts durability gauge is depleted you Karts performance is slightly effected handling-wise. Depleted gauges refill after making a lap or by getting a repair item during a lap, your Kart also repairs itself making the gauge gradually go up.
Each character has a special item that works as a type of special move. Example: Mario gets Fireballs, Link pulls out the Master Sword and can shoot sword beams, or does a melee attack when close.
You can crash into karts to do damage. Stage hazards hinder you but don't do damage.
Any other ideas or corrections?
The difference to Mario Kart:
Karts get damaged and have a durability gauge that either decrease or increases depending on your customization options. More durable parts adds more armor less speed, may add other buffs and nerfs. All based on a weight system.
Once your Karts durability gauge is depleted you Karts performance is slightly effected handling-wise. Depleted gauges refill after making a lap or by getting a repair item during a lap, your Kart also repairs itself making the gauge gradually go up.
Each character has a special item that works as a type of special move. Example: Mario gets Fireballs, Link pulls out the Master Sword and can shoot sword beams, or does a melee attack when close.
You can crash into karts to do damage. Stage hazards hinder you but don't do damage.
Any other ideas or corrections?
What's bringing you to this conclusion, this time? I don't see any news that could make us think that there are problems in Nintendo's software output and market positioning. The only thing that came up is Emily's expectations on its support. Mere expectations, which surely have a base, between the last few years of Western support and what she could've heard about some Western software houses, but still mere expectations. No need for Oregano-ing again.
And this is coming from someone who is still on a bit of a pessimistic side in terms of Western support, but who became slightly more optimistic by seeing Bethesda backing the platform.
Whilst I'd obviously love versions of PS4/XBO games I would take the best of last gen in a portable format easily. Skyrim on the go is badass.
TheDinoman
Member
Honestly, I never really liked the idea of "Super Smash Kart". I'm fine with a few cameo appearances like R.O.B, Link, and the Animal Crossing characters, but other than that, just let Mario Kart be Mario Kart and keep the company wide crossover stuff to Smash Bros.
Whilst I'd obviously love versions of PS4/XBO games I would take the best of last gen in a portable format easily. Skyrim on the go is badass.
dark souls trilogy on the go
bruhhhhhhhhhhhh