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[Scrow]

a secret drinky crow character has to be in this thread somewhere

 

[borghe]

yeah but their profits are slipping and since that is their main priority they're unlikely to be willing to endure losses like Sega did before deciding to go 3rd party

NO company is unwilling to endure losses before throwing it in, seen as though throwing it in is the FINAL stage before death/repurposing.

and I don't think their profits have been slipping so much as restructuring.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

The pathetic Nintendo fanboys would become even more insufferable than they are already?

Seriously, don't you guys have anything better to hope for?

Thanks for your incredibly helpful and insightful post. I look forward to your continued posting in this forum and in any others that you may visit.

 

[gamergirly]

a secret drinky crow character has to be in this thread somewhere

He posted on the front page

 

[mj1108]

yeah but their profits are slipping and since that is their main priority they're unlikely to be willing to endure losses like Sega did before deciding to go 3rd party

Yes, they are slipping. They only had a net profit of $451 million for the first half of the year.

Yes, poor Nintendo only making a $451 million profit in 6 months.

 

[Dragmire]

MS, Sony and Nintendo all care about profits and mindshare. They just have different approaches to achieving them. I could see Revolution catching on in a big way, and it would probably mean cheaper and more universal games in a way that hasn't been seen much since the NES. I feel like people really forget the universal appeal of the NES. Playstation is universal too, but it's be a lie to insist that everyone can use the controller as well as the NES pad.

 

[argon]

I honestly believe if Nintendo returns to dominance again, it will be incredibly difficult for Sony and Microsoft to take over the market again.

Nintendo's biggest weakness since the SNES has been 3rd parties, which are always skeptical about supporting a new Nintendo console-- this leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Less support means less games, and without games Nintendo cannot be market leader. Luckily they have a fiercely loyal core fanbase, a ton of IP, and strong 1st party support to carry them through the generation.

However this spiral goes both ways, and can become a self-reinforcing asset as seen with the SNES and likely the DS. If developers believe Nintendo will win the next generation, they will throw in alot of support. More games leads to Nintendo becoming market leader. Their 1st party efforts are just icing on the cake.

Sony and Microsoft have slowly built up an admirable 1st party, but without a ton of games and 3rd party blockbuster titles they are screwed (see PSP). I seriously doubt Sony/MS could weather out an entire gen if they had the kind of 3rd party support Nintendo typically gets. They would have to seriously ramp up their 1st party divisions to do so, and probably would have to be far more conservative (i.e. not selling their consoles for such a loss)

Just my two cents.

Edit: Note.. i'm not saying this is likely-- it is purely hypothetical.

 

[Marmaduke]

broghe is not asking the question out of his excitement of Nintendo becoming king

Are you sure? Historically on GAF, everytime Nintendo has ridden some small trend of success (DS is the current flavor of the week), these types of threads come up.

 

[psycho_snake]

yeah but their profits are slipping and since that is their main priority they're unlikely to be willing to endure losses like Sega did before deciding to go 3rd party

But they are still making a very large profit and thats what is important. Their slip in profits isnt big enough to even making them consider going third party.

I think people are in two minds about this at the moment. Some are saying that Nintendo are already dominant because they are making the most money and some are just laughing at the thought. In a way both are correct. Nintendo are making the most money out of the three companies, but at the same time, they have the lowest marketshare and are a very long distanbce away from dominance. DS might be doing really well and Revolution seems to have a great concept, but that isnt good enough to even dent Sonys armour.

The way that I look at it is that the company with the most marketshare is the most domainat because they are dominating the market. Nintendo are not doing that at the moment.

Depending if you are looking at marketshare of profit, Nintendo could be considered dominant or they could be considered dominated.

 

[Scrow]

Are you sure? Historically on GAF, everytime Nintendo has ridden some small trend of success (DS is the current flavor of the week), these types of threads come up.

read his post again

 

[Mihail]

Are you sure? Historically on GAF, everytime Nintendo has ridden some small trend of success (DS is the current flavor of the week), these types of threads come up.

I don't care about what happens historically -- look at the question at face value. Is there any sign that Nintendo will be become "dominant?" No. So let's assume, since we have no evidence proving otherwise, that there are no implications in this question and that it is merely hypothetical. Wouldn't discussion be much better then?

 

[borghe]

Are you sure? Historically on GAF, everytime Nintendo has ridden some small trend of success (DS is the current flavor of the week), these types of threads come up.

I find humor in a junior member referring to "historically on GAF". Obviously someone can lurk for years on the new GAF.. just has a funny conotation to it though.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

I honestly believe if Nintendo returns to dominance again, it will be incredibly difficult for Sony and Microsoft to take over the market again.

Nintendo's biggest weakness since the SNES has been 3rd parties, which are always skeptical about supporting a new Nintendo console-- this leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Less support means less games, and without games Nintendo cannot be market leader. Luckily Nintendo has a fiercely loyal core fanbase, and strong 1st party support to carry them through the generation.

However this spiral goes both ways, and can become a self-reinforcing asset as seen with the SNES and likely the DS. If developers believe Nintendo will win the next generation, they will throw in alot of support. More games leads to Nintendo becoming market leader. Nintendo's 1st party efforts are just icing on the cake.

Sony and Microsoft have slowly built up an admirable 1st party, but without a ton of games and 3rd party blockbuster titles they are screwed (see PSP). I seriously doubt Sony/MS could weather out an entire gen if they had the kind of 3rd party support Nintendo typically gets. They would have to seriously ramp up their 1st party divisions to do so, and probably would have to be far more conservative (i.e. not selling their consoles for such a loss)

Just my two cents.

Interesting take. I'm not sure Nintendo will ever regain all its marketshare in home consoles. They seem to be aiming toward a fractured market (like the current handheld situation, with DS, GBA and PSP all having different price points and different styles of software). The Revolution could become a budget alternative or a secondary console, essentially creating a low-end console market with no real competition. Sounds lucrative.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

But they are still making a very large profit and thats what is important. Their slip in profits isnt big enough to even making them consider going third party.

I think people are in two minds about this at the moment. Some are saying that Nintendo are already dominant because they are making the most money and some are just laughing at the thought. In a way both are correct. Nintendo are making the most money out of the three companies, but at the same time, they have the lowest marketshare and are a very long distanbce away from dominance. DS might be doing really well and Revolution seems to have a great concept, but that isnt good enough to even dent Sonys armour.

The way that I look at it is that the company with the most marketshare is the most domainat because they are dominating the market. Nintendo are not doing that at the moment.

Depending if you are looking at marketshare of profit, Nintendo could be considered dominant or they could be considered dominated.

That's just not true. If you're talking about the company's health and its chances of going third-party, you have to consider its handheld marketshare and its first-party software sales. Simply put, when talking about video games, Nintendo is dominant. They just have crappy mindshare in the West (as far as consoles go).

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I find humor in a junior member referring to "historically on GAF". Obviously someone can lurk for years on the new GAF.. just has a funny conotation to it though.

There are likely more lurkers here than actually registered active members.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I honestly believe if Nintendo returns to dominance again, it will be incredibly difficult for Sony and Microsoft to take over the market again.

Nintendo's biggest weakness since the SNES has been 3rd parties, which are always skeptical about supporting a new Nintendo console-- this leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy. Less support means less games, and without games Nintendo cannot be market leader. Luckily Nintendo has a fiercely loyal core fanbase, and strong 1st party support to carry them through the generation.

However this spiral goes both ways, and can become a self-reinforcing asset as seen with the SNES and likely the DS. If developers believe Nintendo will win the next generation, they will throw in alot of support. More games leads to Nintendo becoming market leader. Nintendo's 1st party efforts are just icing on the cake.

Sony and Microsoft have slowly built up an admirable 1st party, but without a ton of games and 3rd party blockbuster titles they are screwed (see PSP). I seriously doubt Sony/MS could weather out an entire gen if they had the kind of 3rd party support Nintendo typically gets. They would have to seriously ramp up their 1st party divisions to do so, and probably would have to be far more conservative (i.e. not selling their consoles for such a loss)

Just my two cents.

Well if Sony or MS doesn't have lot of 3rd party support than something else will, that's sort of the issue in the first place, the marketshare of someone like Sony is because of such massive support and great mindshare is gained.

In the handheld front, it's Nintendo land and Nintendo's to lose and DS has gained well, but still, there is much more of a fight in the handheld competition than what the PS2 is doing to Xbox and GC in terms of sales. You could pratically fit in all of SNES total sales in the difference between PS2 to Xbox/GC.

 

[borghe]

There are likely more lurkers here than actually registered active members.

as I said, just has a funny conotation.

 

[AssMan]

The kiddy image is tainted on Nintendo forever. No mainstream gamer who owns a Sony or MS console will buy theirs, no matter what they do:

"GAME OVER."

 

[Luckett_X]

If Nintendo became dominant again, Gaming would become a geekier kiddy thing again and the market would infact start to shrink as opposed to grow. They would not produce very powerful hardware (case in point, Nintendo's complete dominance of the handheld market lead to shitloads of ports and lazyness with the gba, but hots up now to compete with sony), and there'd be so much Mario 'Something Vaguely Playable' titles that many would vow to never videogame again. Also, a terrifying concept is that Nintendo storms to dominance with its non-games and games become few and far between in favour of cheap to make vaguely interactive shitfests.

Its pretty easy to see now why there is anti-Nintendo sentiment, right? Because you nintenbee's buzz around angry at getting persecuted all the time, and then a small amount of success in the PORTABLE MARKET that Nintendo has ruled since the dawn of time leads to non-stop persecution of all other gamers ("lol, psp where am your god now!" "if you dont LOVE the revolution controller, you dont love gaming anymore!") not to mention rooting for a complete piece of horse-shit like Nintendogs partially out of spite the rest out of blind loyalty to a big red logo.

Plus i agree with the sentiment, don't you have better things to think about other than a company's financial future that in no way affects your life, as opposed to maybe thinking about something you could be sticking your dick into.

 

[Unison]

Last time Nintendo was #1, they horribly abused their position and alienated the industry. I think they'd do it all over again.

 

[borghe]

If Nintendo became dominant again, Gaming would become a geekier kiddy thing again and the market would infact start to shrink as opposed to grow. They would not produce very powerful hardware (case in point, Nintendo's complete dominance of the handheld market lead to shitloads of ports and lazyness with the gba, but hots up now to compete with sony), and there'd be so much Mario 'Something Vaguely Playable' titles that many would vow to never videogame again. Also, a terrifying concept is that Nintendo storms to dominance with its non-games and games become few and far between in favour of cheap to make vaguely interactive shitfests.

Its pretty easy to see now why there is anti-Nintendo sentiment, right? Because you nintenbee's buzz around angry at getting persecuted all the time, and then a small amount of success in the PORTABLE MARKET that Nintendo has ruled since the dawn of time leads to non-stop persecution of all other gamers ("lol, psp where am your god now!" "if you dont LOVE the revolution controller, you dont love gaming anymore!") not to mention rooting for a complete piece of horse-shit like Nintendogs partially out of spite the rest out of blind loyalty to a big red logo.

Plus i agree with the sentiment, don't you have better things to think about other than a company's financial future that in no way affects your life, as opposed to maybe thinking about something you could be sticking your dick into.

wtf? did Nintendo rape your dog or something? You laugh at those who wonder about Nintendo in a positive light but I argue that anyone who has this much distnict aggression towards a company has deep psychological issues far outside of gaming.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

If Nintendo became dominant again, Gaming would become a geekier kiddy thing again and the market would infact start to shrink as opposed to grow. They would not produce very powerful hardware (case in point, Nintendo's complete dominance of the handheld market lead to shitloads of ports and lazyness with the gba, but hots up now to compete with sony), and there'd be so much Mario 'Something Vaguely Playable' titles that many would vow to never videogame again. Also, a terrifying concept is that Nintendo storms to dominance with its non-games and games become few and far between in favour of cheap to make vaguely interactive shitfests.

Its pretty easy to see now why there is anti-Nintendo sentiment, right? Because you nintenbee's buzz around angry at getting persecuted all the time, and then a small amount of success in the PORTABLE MARKET that Nintendo has ruled since the dawn of time leads to non-stop persecution of all other gamers ("lol, psp where am your god now!" "if you dont LOVE the revolution controller, you dont love gaming anymore!") not to mention rooting for a complete piece of horse-shit like Nintendogs partially out of spite the rest out of blind loyalty to a big red logo.

Plus i agree with the sentiment, don't you have better things to think about other than a company's financial future that in no way affects your life, as opposed to maybe thinking about something you could be sticking your dick into.

Angry much? Why are all anti-Nintendo fanboys so hostile? Were you molested by a plumber as a child?

 

[ghostlyjoe]

Last time Nintendo was #1, they horribly abused their position and alienated the industry. I think they'd do it all over again.

They sure didn't play fair with 3rd parites. But it would be almost impossible for them to push third-parties around in today's climate. Remember, back then it was Nintendo or nothing (Sega was a bit player until the Genesis). Plus, they've put a kinder, gentler face on the company since then.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

With Nintendos current position, and where they are going with Revolution, the idea of them returning to dominance seems far fetched IMO.

 

[borghe]

With Nintendos current position, and where they are going with Revolution, the idea of them returning to dominance seems far fetched IMO.

which does nothing to answer the question of what if...?

 

[Rahul]

Excuse me while I call it:

We're all too firmly entrenched as "core" gamers to make any relevant preclusions about Nintendo's (or anyone's) movements in the market. Until more than just a few of us learn to think outside of that box, you're not going to get much valuable discussion in this thread.

 

[Emotions]

I don't really mind if they are number 1 or no next generation i just wanna have my good nintedo console and handheld fix wishing they do better and get some more third party support next gen.
Nintendo + third party support = almost perfect for me.

 

[Jiggy]

To be honest, I don't think much would change other than more third-parties getting on board with Nintendo systems. Usually being the dominant company means that said company can maintain some form of status quo while also branching out with experimental products or risk-taking, but how much further could Nintendo possibly go in those areas anyway?

 

[xexex]

the Genesis took away Nintendo's dominance, and since then, Nintendo has never regained it, and is unlikely to ever again.

 

[Unison]

They sure didn't play fair with 3rd parites. But it would be almost impossible for them to push third-parties around in today's climate. Remember, back then it was Nintendo or nothing (Sega was a bit player until the Genesis). Plus, they've put a kinder, gentler face on the company since then.

I took the "return to dominance" in the thread title to mean a market share > 90% like they once had.

 

[monchi-kun]

which does nothing to answer the question of what if...?

when are you going to reply to my ansewer!!!

 

[borghe]

the Genesis took away Nintendo's dominance, and since then, Nintendo has never regained it, and is unlikely to ever again.

actually Genesis, while eating into Nintendo's dominance, certainly didn't take it away. Games like Star Wars, Batman, and Super Mario Brothers 3 were released well after the Genesis launched in the US and went on to do very brisk sales. NES dominance didn't end until the SNES came along. And while Sega certainly held 16-bit dominance over the SNES for a short time, IIRC SNES ended up going on to win the generation by a small margin.

Even the PSX didn't cause Nintendo to lose their dominance. It was effectively 3 games that hurt Nintendo the most. Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, and Final Fantasy VII. After all three of those games swept through Nintendo was very clearly in a back seat position.

 

[psycho_snake]

That's just not true. If you're talking about the company's health and its chances of going third-party, you have to consider its handheld marketshare and its first-party software sales. Simply put, when talking about video games, Nintendo is dominant. They just have crappy mindshare in the West (as far as consoles go).

I was talking about home consoles. Nintendo do have the least markertshare for home consoles, they have been like that for the last year or so, but if we do take their handhelds into consideration then their marketshare increases by so much. They could actually be the most dominant if their handheld marketshare was added together with their home-console marketshare.

 

[Tarazet]

So I was thinking about this as I eat my lunch

Why do so many Nintendo-related topics start like this? Or maybe it's just you.

 

[SpiffyG]

Last time Nintendo was #1, they horribly abused their position and alienated the industry. I think they'd do it all over again.

I don't think Iwata would allow something like that to happen (horribly abusing their position, not being #1 ).

 

[Prine]

dear god

 

[Mooreberg]

They have been dominating all along, that's the thing. Sony has the console market in thei pocket, but their profits are pathetic for such a huge installed base. And even with the PSP on the market, Nintendo is still right at the top overall (I think Sony may have overtaken them in overall marketshare with the PSP, but it's close). They sell boatloads of software, they make tons of profit and they sell handhelds like they're crack.

So define dominance: What are we really talking about here? Marketshare? Profits? Mindshare?

That's great but most people here play games, not the Tokyo Stock Exchange. Until Nintendo starts pressing dividends onto 1.5" discs that I play on the weekend, it doesn't mean much to me.

 

[Minotauro]

Think about what you're saying. This is the most insufferable post in this thread thus far. Ironic? Hmm ....

Oh, yeah? Watch this...

Thanks for your incredibly helpful and insightful post. I look forward to your continued posting in this forum and in any others that you may visit.

Hey, I posted personal 360 gameplay impressions last week. What the fuck have you ever contributed? Aside from quibbles over sales numbers and naivety about Nintendo's future, I mean.

 

[hedi]

SPAM snipped... and banned.

 

[Minotauro]

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2.Have some friends use your refferal link and have them complete a offer

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This is 100% legit because I got my psp this way and two of my friends got ipods.

Here is the FREE IPOD VIDEO link if you intrested for a IPOD Video For Free

www.freevideoipods.com

Think about what you're saying. This is the most insufferable post in this thread thus far. Ironic? Hmm ....

Shit, I've been one-upped.

 

[Andrew2]

Just because Japanese companies dominate doesn't mean Japanese content will. Just looking at sales data, the ammount of representation of Japanese-developed or Japanese-style games is less than 30%. For the mass-market (and this includes Japan too) tastes are regional and cultural.

One would wonder, had Sony not taken such a HUGE chunk of the marketshare, would Nintendo bother to have made such a radically different control system for their new console?

Its interesting you ask that, but I personally believe Nintendo wouldn't have change if Sony wasn't dominating them so much. Essentially with the Revolution, Nintendo is saying if we can't beat them lets carve our own path.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

One would wonder, had Sony not taken such a HUGE chunk of the marketshare, would Nintendo bother to have made such a radically different control system for their new console?

Think about that question again, go check out the N64 controller and get back to me.

You can hold controller three different ways.

 

[koam]

Hey why don't we just talk about Sega's return to dominance while we're at it?

There is something wrong about this question. I believe it is the word "return".

 

[Razoric]

If Nintendo did return I would hope that they allow games like GTA to grace their system and not censor out religious symbols from Japan.

Oh and MK7/8 better not have sweat for blood.

 

[AniHawk]

If Nintendo did return I would hope that they allow games like GTA to grace their system and not censor out religious symbols from Japan.

Oh and MK7/8 better not have sweat for blood.

Nintendo of late =/= Nintendo of the late 80s/early 90s. Hell, they let Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day through. MS is the one who apparently has censored both (unless PDZ HAS blood now).

 

[psycho_snake]

Its interesting you ask that, but I personally believe Nintendo wouldn't have change if Sony wasn't dominating them so much. Essentially with the Revolution, Nintendo is saying if we can't beat them lets carve our own path.

Well Nintendo seem to always try and make something different, but revolution seems to be taking it a step further.

I still believe that what you are saying is true though. Nintendo never had to do anything different before to gain the customers interest because the big devs all made games for Nintendo. Now, this is what is happening with Sony. They have a lot of amazing exclusive games such as MGS, Tekken, GT, GTA, DMC, FF, the list goes on really, along with a huge catalogue of other games. Sony dont need to make something new or different to get peoples attention because those games are more than enough to attract millions of gamers.

It also has a lot to do with the fact that Nintendo now have a different president since the one who made GC and GBA, Iwata might be introducing or accepting new ideas such as the Revolution that Yamauchi might have not.

 

[Razoric]

Nintendo of late =/= Nintendo of the late 80s/early 90s. Hell, they let Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day through. MS is the one who apparently has censored both (unless PDZ HAS blood now).

Yeah I was just taking a bitter jap at the Nintendo of yesteryear. My brother got the genny version and I got the SNES version and I never heard the end of it. Remember Johnny Cages MK1 SNES fatality? :lol

I wonder if Nintendo would be as innovative if they were #1 again. It would be interesting to see.

 

[bill0527]

It'll never happen.

Nintendo only cares about being profitable.

I would consider them to be the dominant force in the handheld arena, but they will never get back to dominance in the console arena.

Nintendo has set a pattern that has become very familiar.

N64 - show off new hardware and new Mario, everyone gets excited, console loses third party support halfway through its life-cycle and the console tanks against its competition (but is still profitable for big N).

Gamecube - show off new hardware, fanboys declare it the best ever, everyone gets excited, Gamecube loses third party support halfway through its life cycle and the console tanks against its competition (but is still profitable for the big N).

Revolution - I expect more of the same.

 

[AniHawk]

Remember Johnny Cages MK1 SNES fatality? :lol

No, my first time owning a SNES was 2000.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

Well Nintendo seem to always try and make something different, but revolution seems to be taking it a step further.

I still believe that what you are saying is true though. Nintendo never had to do anything different before to gain the customers interest because the big devs all made games for Nintendo. Now, this is what is happening with Sony. They have a lot of amazing exclusive games such as MGS, Tekken, GT, GTA, DMC, FF, the list goes on really, along with a huge catalogue of other games. Sony dont need to make something new or different to get peoples attention because those games are more than enough to attract millions of gamers.

It also has a lot to do with the fact that Nintendo now have a different president since the one who made GC and GBA, Iwata might be introducing or accepting new ideas such as the Revolution that Yamauchi might have not.

N64 controller was radical, when it was shown.