Support NeoGAF

[Porridge]

when nintendo owned 90 percent of the north american vg market, they experienced something they probably won't for a long time, if ever again. they appeared with the right product at the right time and were an unbelievable success.

sony and microsoft would have to slip anthrax into their consoles for nintendo to become number 1 again

 

[Mihail]

The video game industry is very young. All of you trying to find "patterns" are way off, in my opinion.

Nintendo made some classics during the NES and SNES era. For some reason, there is a group of people that think that makes them best for the rest of eternity.

In the same way, Nintendo let its dominance slip away and now Sony has it. And for some reason, there is a group of people that think that it must be this way for the rest of eternity.

This is oversimplification to the worst degree. Nintendo made some good games. Now they're diluting their quality. Sony is extremely good at marketing and delivering what the mass market wants. That's all that happened. There are no patterns here; there are no tendencies. 20 years is not enough to make a pattern. Sony can f*** up tomorrow and let their grip slip. Or they can extinguish MS's video game career. It depends on their corporate decisions. They are not magical creatures that follow mystical guidelines.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

This is oversimplification to the worst degree. Nintendo made some good games. Now they're diluting their quality. Sony is extremely good at marketing and delivering what the mass market wants. That's all that happened. There are no patterns here; there are no tendencies. 20 years is not enough to make a pattern. Sony can f*** up tomorrow and let their grip slip. Or they can extinguish MS's video game career. It depends on their corporate decisions. They are not magical creatures that follow mystical guidelines.

So true.

In fact, I think Sony is starting to slip now. Now, whether this ends up being a temporary thing (like the early SNES) or more lasting (like the N64) we'll see-- but I think X360 will gain huge ground against Sony this generation.

And this is coming from somebody who's mostly a Sony fan, so don't even start. I haven't touched my Xbox is over a year.

 

[bill0527]

The video game industry is very young. All of you trying to find "patterns" are way off, in my opinion.

Nintendo made some classics during the NES and SNES era. For some reason, there is a group of people that think that makes them best for the rest of eternity.

In the same way, Nintendo let its dominance slip away and now Sony has it. And for some reason, there is a group of people that think that it must be this way for the rest of eternity.

This is oversimplification to the worst degree. Nintendo made some good games. Now they're diluting their quality. Sony is extremely good at marketing and delivering what the mass market wants. That's all that happened. There are no patterns here; there are no tendencies. 20 years is not enough to make a pattern. Sony can f*** up tomorrow and let their grip slip. Or they can extinguish MS's video game career. It depends on their corporate decisions. They are not magical creatures that follow mystical guidelines.

The problem is, Nintendo can only seem to make 1-2 great games per year, maybe a handfull in a good year. The game industry, and your success, or lack thereof is controlled by third party software. This is Nintendo's achilles heel and it has been for the last 7-8 years. Nobody wants to make anything for a Nintendo home console. They'd rather spend their money pumping out GBA games that are cheaper to make and more profitable for them and then focus on Sony and Microsoft's home consoles.

 

[borghe]

The video game industry is very young.

the video game industry is definitely not young. The current industry at is just turned 20 years old, and the inudstry as a whole is 26 years old. don't kid yourself that we haven't seen patterns repeat (Atari rules, atari falls by their own hand, Nintendo rules, Nintendo falls by their own hand, Nintendo comes in and redefines who videogames are for, Sony comes in and redefines who videogames are for, MS attempts to come in and redefine who videogames are for, etc)

 

[gamergirly]

It'll never happen.

Nintendo only cares about being profitable.

I would consider them to be the dominant force in the handheld arena, but they will never get back to dominance in the console arena.

Nintendo has set a pattern that has become very familiar.

N64 - show off new hardware and new Mario, everyone gets excited, console loses third party support halfway through its life-cycle and the console tanks against its competition (but is still profitable for big N).

Gamecube - show off new hardware, fanboys declare it the best ever, everyone gets excited, Gamecube loses third party support halfway through its life cycle and the console tanks against its competition (but is still profitable for the big N).

Revolution - I expect more of the same.

Your N64 analogy is a bit off. Also, never say never.

The problem is, Nintendo can only seem to make 1-2 great games per year, maybe a handfull in a good year. The game industry, and your success, or lack thereof is controlled by third party software. This is Nintendo's achilles heel and it has been for the last 7-8 years. Nobody wants to make anything for a Nintendo home console. They'd rather spend their money pumping out GBA games that are cheaper to make and more profitable for them and then focus on Sony and Microsoft's home consoles.

What does GC and N64 have to do with Revolution's success? When did you see Rev's game list that declares (everyone)3rd parties are not supporting the system? A smaller list doesnt declare anything but a lesser amount of support. Not "NO support". Maybe you should remind yourself of what one generation can do for AND against companies.

If everybody already knew how companies will turn out, there would be no debates.

 

[Prine]

Your N64 analogy is a bit off. Also, never say never.

They will never dominte this industry again. Its Sony from here on out

Rev will do great in Japan, slighly better than GC in US. They need to capture the 18+ market to dominte, this will never happen unless Nintendo change. They wont

Never gonna happen, could happen for MS in the west, but not Nintendo and Rev.

 

[Defensor]

Yeah I was just taking a bitter jap at the Nintendo of yesteryear. My brother got the genny version and I got the SNES version and I never heard the end of it. Remember Johnny Cages MK1 SNES fatality? :lol

I owned the SNES version and it had much better graphics and sound than the Genesis version
I don't remember Johnny Cages SNES fatality, but I remember Sub Zero's :lol

EDIT: Wait, now I remember Johnny Cage's SNES fatality :lol :lol

 

[soundwave05]

As a Nintendo fan, to be dead honest, I don't even think I'd want Nintendo be the market leader with consoles anyway.

They get crazy and too complacent when they're given too much power.

I think Revolution will sell more than the GameCube did, but will probably still wind up no.3 in the next-generation. Personally I think Nintendo would be thrilled if Revolution sells more along the lines of 30-35 million systems (N64 levels), up from the 22-24 million the GameCube is petering out at. I see Revolution definitely being success and expanding the game market and selling more software for Nintendo than GameCube. I think Revolution is going to be a great success for Nintendo ... *but* ...

I agree totally with Mihal ... just because Atari and Nintendo screwed doesn't mean Sony is destined to follow suit. As long as they keep up good relations with third parties and keep marketing the system strongly, they should continue to have a high level of success.

Nintendo and Atari didn't just make little or even medium sized mistakes ... for them to lose their grip on the market, they most *monsterous* errors, back-to-back-to-back to lose what they had. There's no formula that says Sony will do the same thing. Microsoft's entrance into the game industry will probably make them more competetive than ever.

Actually in a lot of ways I think Sony has improved themselves. Their 1st/2nd parties are a lot better now than they were on the first Playstation. They've added Team ICO and Santa Monica studio (God of War) ... those are two studios that have put out AAA content. Then you have your Jak/Ratchet/SOCOM/Gran Turismo fare on top of that.

 

[gameboya]

The industry has CLEARLY evolved, take a look around, gaming is so splintered it's not funny. Even down to freaking genre specific games (PC I'm looking at you MMO's).

the odd thing is, everyone keeps thinking it's growing when it isn't, it's shrinking and so segregated. kids DON'T want to play complex 3d games, hence why the gba will be freaking KING for more years than people are claiming it's dead because the DS is out. ummm no, it's the future proof kiddie portable and NOTHING is going to stop it because it's exaclty the perfect demographic.

this is why Nintendo's philosophy of "All access gaming" on the revolution come to play. It will ALLOW all the old school 2 games for that portion of the market to play at home or what have you. Then you have all the retro gamers or the ones who quit playing video games to immediately gain interest.

Then you have this wild new controller to attract all sorts of new gamers with the way Nintendo really kicked ass back in the NES/SNES days. The games were ACCESSABLE by everyone yet allowed the better than average gamer to really find incredible depth. This has always been their philosophy, and a reason to prove games don't NEED to be complex to be fun, hello wario ware! Hell I bet there will be plenty of games that prove you don't need incredible gfx for people to keep interest in gaming. I can imagine plenty of gaming applications that only require gfx like Wario Ware which is further proof this is all possible.

People claiming a company could not return to the glory of the past is such small thinking it's almost funny. I'm not saying they will but they obviouisly understand the market extremely well.

 

[soundwave05]

Not everyone likes Wario Ware though.

A lot of people want Halo and Grand Theft Auto too.

You said it yourself, the industry has grown, so there's no longer one defining genre/style of game that encompasses everyone's tastes (was there ever?).

I was watching Icons (the TV show) about the Playstation brand, and one of the Sony guys said something that I think really sums up the Playstation philosophy perfectly -- Sony aims purposely for a certain age -- 19 years old.

Why 19 years old? Because according to research Sony did, people who are 14/15, want to be 19. Conversely, people who are 26/27/28 want to be 19 again.

That was their entire philsophy behind marketing/selling/branding the Playstation, and really its dead on.

 

[Mihail]

Why 19 years old? Because according to research Sony did, people who are 14/15, want to be 19. Conversely, people who are 26/27/28 want to be 19 again.

Long days and pleasant nights. If it do ya fine, on what is their research based? Thank ya big-big.

 

[soundwave05]

Long days and pleasant nights. If it do ya fine, on what is their research based? Thank ya big-big.

The research was based on studies Sony did themselves, which is why they marketed the Playstation the way they did.

I forget the name of the guy who said it ... he's the Sony rep with the British accent and the bald head (he did a lot of the talking at Sony's E3 press conference).

 

[CrisKre]

Just to clarify, Micro$oft or not Micro$oft, Nintendo or not Nintendo, every company's idea of success is Profit. Mindshare my ass. Minshare is a means towards profit. The question is, long term or short term? Sooo, in light of that, Nintendo is a dominating force. Then again, the trend shows a susbstancial and chronical decrease in that respect generation after generation, and that poses the question: is it a normal trend due to more competition and the matureing of the market? Or could nintendo regain more marketshare without compromising its business structure (which is brilliant IMO)?

BTW, to the hypothetical question at hand, I agree with nintendo's philosophy and culture (of the last 5 years wholeheartedly, not so much of when it was Monopoly-Yamauchi-Nintendo t an extent) that is fundamentally rooted in qualtity and innovation, and I think the company has evolved a hell of a lot, so I would be pleased with nintendo regaining the *percieved* glory of a decade and a 1/2 ago.

 

[Scrow]

the video game industry is definitely not young. The current industry at is just turned 20 years old, and the inudstry as a whole is 26 years old. don't kid yourself that we haven't seen patterns repeat (Atari rules, atari falls by their own hand, Nintendo rules, Nintendo falls by their own hand, Nintendo comes in and redefines who videogames are for, Sony comes in and redefines who videogames are for, MS attempts to come in and redefine who videogames are for, etc)

uh, he's right. at only 26 years old the video game industry is still pretty young.

 

[Deku]

I don't think Nintendo will be as dominant as it once was again. Nintendo was dominant in a time when the market was much smaller and the demographics much narrower. There's really enough room right now to support several major manufacturers in the market.

That said, what we are seeing may be the beginning of a resugence of Nintendo as a company that is both feared, respected and looked to, a status they've lost in the past few years. Apple did it and we've been through all the Apple-Nintendo analogies already.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Apple and Nintendo do infact finally collaborate on their next project, in terms of cross licensing of technologies for their respective portable products. An iTunes capable GameBoy next would just be amazing, so would a Game ready iPod that can play games on a GameBoy next chipset.

 

[cvxfreak]

I don't think Nintendo will be as dominant as it once was again. Nintendo was dominant in a time when the market was much smaller and the demographics much narrower. There's really enough room right now to support several major manufacturers in the market.

That said, what we are seeing may be the beginning of a resugence of Nintendo as a company that is both feared, respected and looked to, a status they've lost in the past few years. Apple did it and we've been through all the Apple-Nintendo analogies already.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Apple and Nintendo do infact finally collaborate on their next project, in terms of cross licensing of technologies for their respective portable products. An iTunes capable GameBoy next would just be amazing, so would a Game ready iPod that can play games on a GameBoy next chipset.

BELIEVE

 

[Deku]

BELIEVE

I berieve

\ （´∀｀）ノ

 

[conker]

Peple here speak of Nintendo wanting profits like it's some ungodly sin.
Um, what do you think MS and Sony are doing?

Of course, MS lost BILLIONS with the XBOX, but that's a different matter.

If Nintendo did get a significant amount of the marketshare back (and I think they will, the DS is only beginning) I don't think too much would change.

Hopefully we'd see some new content on the Rev, but as far as the same shit FPS and Sports games on the 360/PS3, and to a lesser extent the Rev, well, EA isn't going anywhere.

The other big market is RPGs. RPG sales have beel falling rapidly. Did Japan just wake up and say "WTF is all this repition for?" Has America become disillusioned with the anime style in the face of GTA and Halo?

I for one don't give a shit.
I play games that are fun. I play game that I like. Most of the game out there I don't give a rat's ass about. I wouldn't waste my money on them, and certainly not my time.

The market is too fucking huge now to have any sort of momentous event that changes everything. Unless EA crumbles and all of Japan simultaneously throws its controllers in the air in disgust, not much change is going to take place.

The Rev could serve as a sort of safety net. The market seems like it's about ready for a crash, there isn't a developer out there that hasn't moaned about rising development costs, falling sales, and whatnot. They've even gone so far as to set the default price of a new game up 10 bucks. Game shops everywhere are shuting down. While just around the corner, a new one pops up. It's a volatile market, and a single title can make or break a developer. The DS and the Revolution (and the PSP) may alleviate this effect for smaller developers.

However, like I said, this industry is too fucking huge. I expect any "crash" we'd see would simply be MS or EA gobbling up and raping more developers and licenses.

If Nintendo gains a good amount of market share, then they may be able to provide a safe haven for the smaller developers.

 

[monkeyrun]

Peple here speak of Nintendo wanting profits like it's some ungodly sin.
Um, what do you think MS and Sony are doing?

Of course, MS lost BILLIONS with the XBOX, but that's a different matter.

because we all know that Microsoft's doing a charity for the gamers :lol :lol :lol

 

[GaimeGuy]

because we all know that Microsoft's doing a charity for the gamers :lol :lol :lol

More like they shoved a bunch of PC parts into a casing hastily so they wouldn't arive too late this gen and named it the Xbox, but due to the off the shelf parts, lost ridiculous amounts of cash on the hardware. Oh, and not to mention that they spent a lot more on marketing than either of their competitors most likely, particularly at launch, where they spent $500 million dollars campaigning as opposed to Nintendo's $50 million

 

[monkeyrun]

More like they shoved a bunch of PC parts into a casing hastily so they wouldn't arive too late this gen and named it the Xbox, but due to the off the shelf parts, lost ridiculous amounts of cash on the hardware. Oh, and not to mention that they spent a lot more on marketing than either of their competitors most likely, particularly at launch, where they spent $500 million dollars campaigning as opposed to Nintendo's $50 million

wtf are you talking about !!!!!
Microsoft lost 4 billion FOR THE GAMERS !!!!

 

[DDayton]

The pathetic Nintendo fanboys would become even more insufferable than they are already?

Seriously, don't you guys have anything better to hope for?

Well, yes, but so far the admins haven't given me the power to ban people.