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[Randolph Freelander]

This is the text of a bill that NC legislators and the governor have apparently agreed upon.

And here's the original PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru6xjnjbjsctz7j/H142-CSTC-14 v1.pdf?dl=0

And here's the governor's statement.

Someone tell me what exactly this accomplishes.

Currently, HB2 blocks cities from enacting stronger anti-discrimination protections than what the state provides, the state specifically excludes LGBT persons from such protections, and then (of course) there's the bathroom provision that attempts to block people from using bathrooms that conform to their gender identities.

Tell me how this "repeal" fixes any of that.

I note that North Carolina is feeling pressure to do something, because the NCAA is close to awarding postseason sites through 2022 that could leave North Carolina out of it if HB2 is not repealed. This new bill is being rushed through tonight and tomorrow, much like the original HB2, but I don't see that it actually does anything useful for anybody.

 

[ThLunarian]

I don't understand what's happening here. When the bill passes, what will change and what won't change?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I don't understand what's happening here. When the bill passes, what will change and what won't change?

Well, as I read it, cities can't grant access to bathrooms, cities can't enact stronger anti-discrimination measures, and the state isn't enacting any stronger measures, either.

So what's changing is that "HB2" is "repealed" but the effects of it remain.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Well, as I read it, cities can't grant access to bathrooms, cities can't enact stronger anti-discrimination measures, and the state isn't enacting any stronger measures, either.

So what's changing is that "HB2" is "repealed" but the effects of it remain.

Eh, section 4 states section 3 will expire in 2020.
Basically, cities can start enact anti-discrimination laws starting in 2020 insofar as it concerns private businesses.

 

[torre_avenue]

So, they're hoping by saying HB2 is repealed, all the business comes back even though all that's gone is literally the name.

 

[TemplaerDude]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha man Republicans and their "less government!" I really hope I get to see the world shove their hypocrisy down their fucking throats one day.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha man Republicans and their "less government!" I really hope I get to see the world shove their hypocrisy down their fucking throats one day.

Speaking of, the former governor chimed in.

Pat McCrory‏ @PatMcCroryNC
I urge #NCGA & @NC_Governor to finally stick with this deal that still respects privacy and let Supreme Court resolve issue for our nation.

He used this refrain while still in power, as well.

I couldn't help but reply and remind him that he's a "small government, power to the states" Republican. Why should it then be left up to the federal government or Supreme Court to clean up his mess?

 

[akira28]

"well whut if we jest changed th name? I reckon none would be the wiser. All in favor say 'aye'."

 

[numble]

So, they're hoping by saying HB2 is repealed, all the business comes back even though all that's gone is literally the name.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha man Republicans and their "less government!" I really hope I get to see the world shove their hypocrisy down their fucking throats one day.

Section 4, Sentence 2.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Eh, section 4 states section 3 will expire in 2020.
Basically, cities can start enact anti-discrimination laws starting in 2020 insofar as it concerns private businesses.

Meanwhile, people being discriminated against have no legal protection until then, and there's no guarantee 2020 will not come and go without this being extended.

Section 4 is not good enough. There should be no section 3, nor should there be a section 2.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

According to this article:

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...reach-deal-to-repeal-transgender-bathroom-law

The law used to apply to both multi-occupancy and single-occupancy bathrooms, now it will only allow the discrimination in multi-occupancy bathrooms.

So it's a turd sandwich but it's not NOTHING.

 

[Kinsei]

This is total bullshit. It will probably work too.

Section 4, Sentence 2.

Whoop dee fucking doo.

 

[torre_avenue]

Section 4, Sentence 2.

So, they're repealing HB2 now but it won't take effect till 2020. Couldn't this mean that once HB2 gets "repealed" and the business hypothetically comes back, the Republicans could then invalidate that section somehow?

 

[rjinaz]

So, they're repealing HB2 now but it won't take effect till 2020. Couldn't this mean that once HB2 gets "repealed" and the business hypothetically comes back, the Republicans could then invalidate that section somehow?

Seems to me like the Trump " just temporary until we figure out what is going on" strategy that stupid people fall for. Hopefully businesses will see through that shit.

 

[numble]

So, they're repealing HB2 now but it won't take effect till 2020. Couldn't this mean that once HB2 gets "repealed" and the business hypothetically comes back, the Republicans could then invalidate that section somehow?

HB2 is repealed in Section 1.
Does the text of this law look like HB2?
Here is HB2, which was repealed in Section 1:
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/SessionLaws/HTML/2015-2016/SL2016-3.html

 

[Randolph Freelander]

HB2 is repealed in Section 1.
Does the text of this law look like HB2?
Here is HB2, which was repealed in Section 1:
http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/SessionLaws/HTML/2015-2016/SL2016-3.html

It pretty much looks exactly like HB2. Less words, same results.

HRC issued a statement that essentially states the same:

”The rumored HB2 ‘deal' does nothing more than double-down on discrimination and would ensure North Carolina remains the worst state in the nation for LGBTQ people," HRC President Chad Griffin said in a statement. ”The consequences of this hateful law will only continue without full repeal of HB2. Sellouts cave under pressure. Leaders fight for what's right."

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article141566264.html#storylink=cpy

Full statement also available here: http://www.hrc.org/blog/lgbtq-advocates-call-on-allies-to-reject-north-carolina-hb2-deal

HRC and Equality North Carolina urged North Carolina lawmakers to reject a backroom ”deal" that would both continue the harms of the discriminatory HB2 law and push the possibility of full repeal further out of reach. The most recent proposal would specifically prohibit cities from passing protections ensuring that transgender people are able to access facilities in accordance with their gender identity, and it would further prohibit municipalities from passing other LGBTQ non-discrimination protections through 2020.

This means that North Carolina would continue to be the only state in the nation to have shamefully funneled anti-transgender animus into a law regulating restroom access. The proposal would also prevent cities in North Carolina from establishing non-discrimination protections for LGBTQ people for at least three years, undermining efforts by cities like Charlotte to attract top talent, major businesses, and other economic opportunities.

For more than a year, Senate President Phil Berger and House Speaker Tim Moore have blocked an up-or-down vote on clean repeal of HB2, despite the overwhelming outcry from voters, businesses, and others seeking to do business in the state.

"The rumored HB2 'deal' does nothing more than double-down on discrimination and would ensure North Carolina remains the worst state in the nation for LGBTQ people," said HRC President Chad Griffin. "The consequences of this hateful law will only continue without full repeal of HB2. Sellouts cave under pressure. Leaders fight for what's right."

”This proposal is a train wreck that would double down on anti-LGBTQ discrimination. North Carolinians want a clean repeal of HB2, and we urge our allies not to sell us out," said Chris Sgro, Equality NC Executive Director. ”Those who stand for equality and with LGBTQ people are standing strong against these antics. We've got less than 24 hours before the NCAA deadline. There is no time to waste - our leaders must fight for what's right, and that is full repeal."

The backroom proposal is being pushed as lawmakers face a deadline tomorrow to repeal HB2 or risk losing out on bids for NCAA championship games through 2022 — a decision that will further compound the economic harm HB2 continues to inflict on the state. Just this week, the Associated Press published exclusive analysis showing the deeply discriminatory HB2 will cost the state more than $3.76 BILLION in lost business over a dozen years — and even that likely underestimates the damage.

 

[Sobriquet]

It passed 😐

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

There was a lot more involved in HB2 than just sexual orientation discrimination. Something was in there​ to stop the raising of minimum wage, and something about you couldn't sue an employer for any reason. Lots of far right Nazi bullshit.

If this repeal removes that stuff then it's better than nothing, but still a flying fucking turd. I hope NCAA says it's not enough and tells the Republicans to fuck off.

 

[Slayven]

There was a lot more involved in HB2 than just sexual orientation discrimination. Something was in there​ to stop the raising of minimum wage, and something about you couldn't sue an employer for any reason. Lots of far right Nazi bullshit.

If this repeal removes that stuff then it's better than nothing, but still a flying fucking turd. I hope NCAA says it's not enough and tells the Republicans to fuck off.

Yeah I was wondering about that, one of the main reasons NC GOP moved so quick was Charlotte raised their minimum wage

 

[Lord Frieza]

This is total bullshit. It will probably work too.

People are already calling it out and most see it for the sham it is, so I hope that has an effect. The businesses boycotting NC need to stick with it. I'm prettt disappointed on Cooper. I know he's hitting against a stubborn GOP led government, but this isn't good enougn

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Yeah I was wondering about that, one of the main reasons NC GOP moved so quick was Charlotte raised their minimum wage

Charlotte never touched the minimum wage. It was strictly about Charlotte's new LGBT anti-discrimination ordinance.

 

[Ogodei]

The difference is that HB2 specifically banned trans-people from using the bathroom of their gender as opposed to their from-birth sex. This restores the status quo ante: private concerns could block trans-people from using certain bathrooms, with the exception that cities are still banned from demanding tougher trans protections: so compromise: we won't discriminate as long as you don't ban private citizens from discriminating.

It's the difference between a law explicitly banning integrated schools and a law saying schools can choose whether to allow people of color and cities can't tell them not to.

Otherwise i don't see why Cooper would go for it, because it would repeal literally nothing.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Man, I've read a lot of legislation, and this is pretty confusing. Or at least the reaction is confusing to me.

• Section 1 repeals SL 2016-3 (HB2.) Full stop. It's gone (if this passes.)
• Section 2 prevents a litany of state bodies, including local schools, from regulating access to bathroom, except by some other state law (but since HB2 is gone in section 1, who cares?)
• Section 3 prevents local bodies from regulating public accommodations (bathrooms) or private employment (until 2020 thanks to section 4.) I assume the private employment bit prevents local bodies from passing a higher minimum wage from what I'm reading here, correct?
• Section 4 is housekeeping.

So, as I read it, HB2 is gone. Is the resistance to this bill because it's tied to the minimum wage part?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Man, I've read a lot of legislation, and this is pretty confusing. Or at least the reaction is confusing to me.

• Section 1 repeals SL 2016-3 (HB2.) Full stop. It's gone (if this passes.)
• Section 2 prevents a litany of state bodies, including local schools, from regulating access to bathroom, except by some other state law (but since HB2 is gone in section 1, who cares?)
• Section 3 prevents local bodies from regulating public accommodations (bathrooms) or private employment (until 2020 thanks to section 4.) I assume the private employment bit prevents local bodies from passing a higher minimum wage from what I'm reading here, correct?
• Section 4 is housekeeping.

So, as I read it, HB2 is gone. Is the resistance to this bill because it's tied to the minimum wage part?

HB2 is gone. Except this is very nearly the same thing.

Charlotte's LGBT anti-discrimination ordinance started the state towards adopting HB2. Under this new law, Charlotte could not pass an ordinance equivalent of the one passed last February. Charlotte cannot specifically mandate bathroom access, Charlotte cannot prevent employment discrimination based on sexual preference or gender identity.

This isn't a repeal, it's a reboot.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Lol this will do nothing to get organizations such as the NBA and NCAA to bring back big money-making events to NC.

Remember this is the ONLY reason they are doing this, because they are hurting bad from all the events that are avoiding NC now.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

HB2 is gone. Except this is very nearly the same thing.

Charlotte's LGBT anti-discrimination ordinance started the state towards adopting HB2. Under this new law, Charlotte could not pass an ordinance equivalent of the one passed last February. Charlotte cannot specifically mandate bathroom access, Charlotte cannot prevent employment discrimination based on sexual preference or gender identity.

This isn't a repeal, it's a reboot.

Is it though? If HB2 (must use gendered bathrooms per assignment at birth) and Charlotte's anti-discrimination ordinance are both gone, what's preventing people from using the gendered bathrooms that they identify with?

I see the employment discrimination aspect now, and yes, that is a problem. But a) that is sunsetted, and b) honestly, that ought to be done at the federal level as with the other protected classes. The mismash of sexual preference and gender identity being protected in half the states and not the others is bullshit.

Edit: A question for the lawyers, I see Section 3 only prevents "enact" or "amend" those ordinances, does that mean "enforcing" an ordinance that hadn't been repealed would be ok?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Is it though? If HB2 (must use gendered bathrooms per assignment at birth) and Charlotte's anti-discrimination ordinance are both gone, what's preventing people from using the gendered bathrooms that they identify with?

I cannot speak to the difficulties experienced, so I can only defer. I'll just note that Charlotte was not alone in enacting rules regarding bathroom access, as at least 200 other cities had enacted similar policies, so I can only assume such policies were needed and beneficial.

I see the employment discrimination aspect now, and yes, that is a problem. But a) that is sunsetted, and b) honestly, that ought to be done at the federal level as with the other protected classes.

Yes, it should be done federally, but in the meantime, it needs to be done in as many states as possible. They should not wait on other bodies to do the right thing. If nothing else, North Carolina should get out of the way and at least allow cities to implement stronger anti-discrimination measures. I also find it particularly hypocritical when "small government, power to the states" Republicans plead for the federal government to settle this dispute, as I highlighted earlier in the thread in regard to former NC governor Pat McCrory. Republicans, who control NC, think local power is best, so do the right thing locally! However, their idea of the right thing is obviously the wrong thing, and they deserve to be punished along with the people of this state, since we obviously didn't learn our lesson (with rare exception, we re-elected the same cast of misfits that gave us HB2).

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Charlotte's mayor weighs in

https://mobile.twitter.com/JenRobertsNC/status/847533614283841536

 

[aeolist]

roy cooper is a piece of shit if he signs this after campaigning so hard against HB2. promises clearly mean nothing to this guy.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

Edit: A question for the lawyers, I see Section 3 only prevents "enact" or "amend" those ordinances, does that mean "enforcing" an ordinance that hadn't been repealed would be ok?

If I'm not mistaken, there was only the Charlotte ordinance, and Charlotte repealed theirs during Roy Cooper's first misguided attempt at a HB2 sorta-but-not-really-repeal.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm extremely disappointed in Cooper for getting on board with this. He wasn't elected for this "compromise"

 

[metalslimer]

This shouldn't be accepted and if it is the NCAA should tell NC to fuck off

 

[aeolist]

I'm extremely disappointed in Cooper for getting on board with this. He wasn't elected for this "compromise"

shit like this is why the democratic party keeps losing. when he goes up for reelection i wouldn't be surprised to see his base refuse to vote for him, turning the office back over to republicans.

 

[Shake Appeal]

roy cooper is a piece of shit if he signs this after campaigning so hard against HB2. promises clearly mean nothing to this guy.

I mean, he literally cannot get rid of HB2 given Republican control. Because Republican leadership literally cannot get the votes from their membership for a full, unconditional repeal.

(Not that I think Cooper should sign this, but he is also beholden to the "economic interest" of the state, and if he can sort of sweep the broken pieces of HB2 under the rug, he's going to do that.)

Also, he arguably didn't campaign "hard" against HB2. His entire strategy was to say that we shouldn't be getting hung up on costly social policy like HB2 when there was so much important economic work to be done. In my memory, he never argued against it from a purely moral perspective. It was always from a pro-business point of view.

 

[metalslimer]

I mean, he literally cannot get rid of HB2 given Republican control. Because Republican leadership literally cannot get the votes from their membership for a full, unconditional repeal.

(Not that I think Cooper should sign this, but he is also beholden to the "economic interest" of the state, and if he can sort of sweep the broken pieces of HB2 under the rug, he's going to do that.)

He's not beholden to throw civil rights under the bus for money and I hope this backfires hard and the NCAA gives them nothing along with the nba

 

[Shake Appeal]

He's not beholden to throw civil rights under the bus for money and I hope this backfires hard and the NCAA gives them nothing along with the nba

His argument would be "better a half-hearted repeal and this weird moratorium and we take back the statehouse down the line than no change, nothing."

I don't think people understand how utterly powerless he is. They're currently dragging him through the hastily rigged process of having to have his cabinet appointees confirmed by the Republican-led state Senate for the first time in history.

 

[aeolist]

His argument would be "better a half-hearted repeal and this weird moratorium and we take back the statehouse down the line than no change, nothing."

I don't think people understand how utterly powerless he is. They're currently dragging him through the hastily rigged process of having to have his cabinet appointees confirmed by the Republican-led state Senate for the first time in history.

he could at least tell the truth. this isn't a repeal of HB2, half-hearted or otherwise. he's trying to sell a false bill of goods here.

 

[Shake Appeal]

For the record, I think he should continue to push for a full, unconditional repeal and just keep rubbing Republican noses in their own mess.

But the reason "Democrats keep losing" is not because they vote for dull, milquetoast, centrist candidates like Roy Cooper. Punishing a tall glass of warm milk for not singlehandedly breaking the incredible stranglehold the GOP has on the state will only serve to hand that same GOP a free W.

 

[aeolist]

For the record, I think he should continue to push for a full, unconditional repeal and just keep rubbing Republican noses in their own mess.

But the reason "Democrats keep losing" is not because they vote for dull, milquetoast, centrist candidates like Roy Cooper. Punishing a tall glass of warm milk for not singlehandedly breaking the incredible stranglehold the GOP has on the state will only serve to hand that same GOP a free W.

democrats keep losing because they keep getting elected in the wake of GOP backlashes and then fail to deliver on anything different.

people understand that he doesn't have unilateral control over the state's lawmaking process, but the fact that he's brokering this weird non-repeal himself and selling it as something it's not will not look good for him in the future. he should be taking every opportunity to beat the legislature up for their refusal to do anything about this awful law, instead he's letting them keep pissing on everyone's faces and insisting that it's rain now.

 

[metalslimer]

Oh he's trying to sell it now as an actual civil rights win and not about money. Fuck off cooper

 

[Trojita]

He signed it. What a fucker.

 

[Ashodin]

"bububububbubu what about sports"

and all the money that entails

 

[jwhit28]

In 2020 when cities begin passing local anti-discrimination laws, I wonder if that will work for or against Cooper. Will LGBT forgive and applaud a campaigning Cooper as they get some sort of protection in the workplace and local government buildings? Republicans can say they "protected" the bathrooms and brought business back while getting people worked up over 2020 anti-discrimination laws.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

democrats keep losing because they keep getting elected in the wake of GOP backlashes and then fail to deliver on anything different.

people understand that he doesn't have unilateral control over the state's lawmaking process, but the fact that he's brokering this weird non-repeal himself and selling it as something it's not will not look good for him in the future. he should be taking every opportunity to beat the legislature up for their refusal to do anything about this awful law, instead he's letting them keep pissing on everyone's faces and insisting that it's rain now.

I would have loved to witness a Sanders presidency. He would have either stuck to his beliefs and accomplished absolutely nothing because Congress wouldn't have it or he would have dared to compromise and pissed off his ideological base.

 

[impirius]

This is pathetic. There was a better "deal" in December, but it was still bad because it wasn't a clean repeal.

I'd love to see the NCAA stick to their guns they way they did when South Carolina moved the Confederate flag from the State House dome to the State House grounds. "See, we did what you asked for! Technically!"

 

[JKRMA]

So it is a "repeal", not a repeal.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

So, unintended consequences of the bill:

Here's the text regarding bathroom regulations:

State agencies, boards, offices, departments, institutions, branches of government, including The University of North Carolina and the North Carolina Community College System, and political subdivisions of the State, including local boards of education, are preempted from regulation of access to multiple occupancy restrooms, showers, or changing facilities, except in accordance with an act of the General Assembly.

Note that the bill restricts "regulation of access" unless the state legislature has approved it.

So, you're a public high school and you have an employees-only multi-user bathroom inside a teacher's lounge? You're in violation of the new law if the state legislature hasn't explicitly given you that authority.

You're a university that has a broken toilet in a multi-user bathroom and you want to close the toilet for maintenance? By the strict reading of the law, you're going to need a state law that says "you can close bathrooms for maintenance purposes". And if there's not one? You'd violate NC law by shutting it down to give a plumber space to fix it.

 

[EmptyCanO'wupass]

democrats keep losing because they keep getting elected in the wake of GOP backlashes and then fail to deliver on anything different.

people understand that he doesn't have unilateral control over the state's lawmaking process, but the fact that he's brokering this weird non-repeal himself and selling it as something it's not will not look good for him in the future. he should be taking every opportunity to beat the legislature up for their refusal to do anything about this awful law, instead he's letting them keep pissing on everyone's faces and insisting that it's rain now.

Exactly. Cooper has just insulted his constituents and thrown away one of the best lines of attack Dems had against the NC GOP, all in exchange for a "repeal" headline that will last a week. He now owns HB2.0 just as much as the Republicans, and has no right to slam them publicly on it anymore.

 

[ModBot]

Let's take the discussion here -> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1356735