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North Carolina no longer classified as a democracy, ranks alongside Iran and Cuba.

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Joe

Member
According to the Electoral Integrity Project (EIP), based out of Harvard and the University of Sydney:
The Electoral Integrity Project is an independent academic project based at Harvard University and the University of Sydney. The EIP project is directed by the founding Director, Professor Pippa Norris, and governed by an International Advisory Board.


EIP: WHY IT’S NOT ABOUT ELECTION FRAUD, ITS MUCH WORSE.

Op-ed from a founding EIP academic:
North Carolina is no longer classified as a democracy
Our system measured 50 moving parts of an election process and covered everything from the legal framework to the polling day and counting of ballots.

In 2012 Elklit and I worked with Pippa Norris of Harvard University who used it as the cornerstone of the Electoral Integrity Project. Since then the EIP has measured 213 elections in 153 countries and is widely agreed to be the most accurate method for evaluating of how free and fair and democratic elections are across time and place.
In the just released EIP report, North Carolina’s overall electoral integrity score of 58/100 for the 2016 election places us alongside authoritarian states and pseudo-democracies like Cuba, Indonesia and Sierra Leone. If it were a nation state, North Carolina would rank right in the middle of the global league table – a deeply flawed, partly-free, democracy that is only slightly ahead of the failed democracies that constitute much of the developing world.

Indeed Carolina does so poorly on the measures of legal framework and voter registration, that on those indicators we rank alongside Iran and Venezuela. When it comes to the integrity of the voting district boundaries no country has ever received as low a score as the 7/100 North Carolina received. North Carolina is not only the worst state in the USA for unfair districting but the worst entity in the world ever analyzed by the Electoral Integrity Project.
That North Carolina can no longer call its elections democratic is shocking enough, but our democratic decline goes beyond what happens at election time. The most respected measures of democracy – Freedom House, POLITY and the Varieties of Democracy project all assess the degree to which the exercise of power depends on the will of the people: That is, governance is not arbitrary, it follows established rules and is based on popular legitimacy.

The extent to which North Carolina now breaches these principles means our state government can no longer be classified as a full democracy.

I can't find the full report on their website but I'm not sure it's even freely available yet.
 

Mathieran

Banned
It's a shame I love my job and the triangle so much otherwise I would get that fuck outta here. Growing up in ND my plan was to move to a liberal northwestern state, instead I ended up doing the complete opposite. Whoops
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
It's a shame I love my job and the triangle so much otherwise I would get that fuck outta here. Growing up in ND my plan was to move to a liberal northwestern state, instead I ended up doing the complete opposite. Whoops

Should have just moved next door to Minnesota.
 
Does the GOP in North Carolina not look at the themselves in the mirror and think "skeeter, are we the bad guys?"

It's like they're taking every step they can to fuck over the Democrats and fuck over social issues.
 

deadlast

Member
Incredible. The good thing about this type of shit is people who aren't political minded (like my wife) are starting to understand the importance of voting.
 

Mung

Member
Funny that they choose Iran as an example, which is actually much more democratic than many of its neighbours.
 

linkboy

Member
Does the GOP in North Carolina not look at the themselves in the mirror and think "skeeter, are we the bad guys?"

It's like they're taking every step they can to fuck over the Democrats and fuck over social issues.

The GOP only cares about one thing, gaining power and maintaining it.

If they burn the whole thing down, so be it.
 

Eylos

Banned
this is old news, but i found interesting.

"America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds"

America is no longer a democracy — never mind the democratic republic envisioned by Founding Fathers.

Rather, it has taken a turn down elitist lane and become a country led by a small dominant class comprised of powerful members who exert total control over the general population — an oligarchy, said a new study jointly conducted by Princeton and Northwestern universities.

One finding in the study: The U.S. government now represents the rich and powerful, not the average citizen, United Press International reported.

In the study, “Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups and Average Citizens,” researchers compared 1,800 different U.S. policies that were put in place by politicians between 1981 and 2002 to the type of policies preferred by the average and wealthy American, or special interest groups.

Researchers then concluded that U.S. policies are formed more by special interest groups than by politicians properly representing the will of the general people, including the lower-income class.

“The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,” the study found.

The study also found: “When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/

the study: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-citizensdiv/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B
 
Too bad the Republican Party base actively supports and applauds efforts to restrict democracy as long as it helps Republicans "win" elections.

Putin helped Trump steal the election and suddenly Republicans love Putin. No fucking coincidence there, no sirree.

The only hope for NC is the legislative maps soon to come out allow Democrats to take over. I would say just "curb the Republican majorities" but fuck them. Any Democrat living in NC - nationwide really, but especially NC - should be fucking livid at the stunts the state GOP has pulled since they got into power.

And the first thing they should do is create a nonpartisan redistricting commission and overturn the bills passed to rescind certain gubernatorial powers, assuming it isn't repealed in the courts. Oh, and nuke HB2 from orbit.
 
There was this comment posted on Metafilter that I thought was pretty insightful regarding the whole thing:

I keep thinking about this. I think the problem is not, as some Democrats would have it, "Republicans are evil," so much it is "Republicans are convinced that Democrats are evil."

They think all their desperate measures (North Carolina, Supreme Court, etc) are justified because we are evil. They think they are doing what is necessary to save their country from baby-killing, Christian-hating, orgy-having, one-world-government-planning villains, sneering from our ivory towers as we sip our lattes and plan how to steal the money of hard earned small business owner and give it to immigrants to buy their votes so that we elites can stay in power.

I mean, that sounds like a parody, but I know a lot of people who would agree with all of those descriptions with a straight face.

Because they think we're evil, they'll do anything to stop us. Because they think we're evil, they'll vote for whoever promises to oppose us in the strongest terms and refuses to come to any accommodation with us... Which would, again, be an accommodation with evil, in their minds. This is how Trump won, by using those strongest terms. This is why even the "sane" Republicans can't be seen to compromise, lest they lose their seats.

Because they think we're evil, they'll believe any terrible story they hear about us, which makes them very susceptible to fake news.

And of course many Democrats think all Republicans are evil too (especially now, in the age of Trump. 'Cause he really is evil, and they elected him to be their evil bastard -- though he's not. Theirs I mean.)

But in general and up until now, I'd say there's a lot more benefit of the doubt given by Democrats to Republicans. A lot more assumption of good faith. But that's not rewarded, because they think we're evil and they'll do ANYTHING to stop us.

How can we make them believe that we sincerely disagree, but we don't hate them or sneer at them, and we don't hate Christians or babies or stay at home moms or America? What will it take for them to believe us that we share the same goals as them (a prosperous and peaceful country) and just disagree on the best means for achieving that, so that we can debate policy again instead of just calling each other names? (Their policy repertoire has become so impoverished by this whole "If a Democrat is for it, it must be evil" paradigm. Every time we suggest an approach to solving our problems it comes off the list of acceptable approaches for Republicans. We should start suggesting terrible ideas just so they'll say "NUH UH" and do the opposite instead.)

How did this happen? I mean, I know... Phyllis Schafly and Barry Goldwater and Lee Atwater and the Southern Strategy and Reagan's "Welfare Queens" and Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and fake news.

And all Fred Clark's stuff about political "fantasy role playing" and how satisfying it is to defeat the "satanic baby killers" and good Jackie and all that.

And Ta Nahesi Coates and how "white" became an identity because it was a passport out of the lowest class...

And how abortion replaced segregation as the unifying issue for white people because it allowed them to feel they had regained the moral high ground.

And Jonathan Haidt and the differing moral "tastebuds" that attract people to conservatism (a taste for "authority" and "sanctity" and "in-group loyalty")... And about the Just World Fallacy.

Actually, I feel like I know a lot about how it happened. Because I've been kind of obsessed with trying to understand it ever since I wrenchingly abandoned both my faith and my Republican politics as a young adult, leaving my whole family behind in that world, mourning for me.

I guess my question isn't really "How did this happen..." I guess it's "how can we fix it?" How can we "humanize ourselves" as Corb said? How can we convince them we're not devils when they don't believe anything we say, because devils lie?

Democracy cannot work without some basic assumption of good faith on both sides. We can't deliberate and then accept the decision of the majority without that. But Republicans grant us NO benefit of the doubt, NO assumption of good faith, EVER. Whatever we say is instantly assumed to be false because we are the ones who said it, so what can we possibly say that will matter?

Is there any way out of this trap? I'm starting to, depressingly, believe that there is nothing we as Democrats can do about it... except try very hard not to get caught sneering. But that won't fix it, it just won't make it worse. Is there anything that will?
 

Fox Mulder

Member
NC is the blueprint for what the GOP wants to do with total control.

You can't work with these people. It's us vs them and they play by different rules and objectives.
 

Red

Member
Is the actual report available? I can't find it on the EIP website and a google search for "EIP North Carolina" only results the quoted article and this thread.
 

wildfire

Banned
Well we had a good run. Let's clean up the trash in NC and hopefully our next consecutive string of being a full democracy lasts longer than this string did.
 

wildfire

Banned
this is old news, but i found interesting.

"America is an oligarchy, not a democracy or republic, university study finds"

America is no longer a democracy — never mind the democratic republic envisioned by Founding Fathers.

Rather, it has taken a turn down elitist lane and become a country led by a small dominant class comprised of powerful members who exert total control over the general population — an oligarchy, said a new study jointly conducted by Princeton and Northwestern universities.

One finding in the study: The U.S. government now represents the rich and powerful, not the average citizen, United Press International reported.

In the study, “Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups and Average Citizens,” researchers compared 1,800 different U.S. policies that were put in place by politicians between 1981 and 2002 to the type of policies preferred by the average and wealthy American, or special interest groups.

Researchers then concluded that U.S. policies are formed more by special interest groups than by politicians properly representing the will of the general people, including the lower-income class.

“The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence,” the study found.

The study also found: “When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose.”

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/21/americas-oligarchy-not-democracy-or-republic-unive/

the study: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-citizensdiv/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B



Remember that study saying America is an oligarchy? 3 rebuttals say it's wrong.

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-study


Since its initial release, the Gilens/Page paper's findings have been targeted in three separate debunkings. Cornell professor Peter Enns, recent Princeton PhD graduate Omar Bashir, and a team of three researchers — UT Austin grad student J. Alexander Branham, University of Michigan professor Stuart Soroka, and UT professor Christopher Wlezien — have all taken a look at Gilens and Page's underlying data and found that their analysis doesn't hold up.
 

kmfdmpig

Member
Counterpoint...

It depends on what you mean by Republicans. Certainly, Republican voters may feel this way.

But this attitude is something I believe the Republican politicians encourage and foster so they can win elections and do what they want.

Good point. There is a difference between McCain saying that he believes Barack Obama is an honorable man and Trump saying that he thinks Hillary is a "nasty woman", "crooked Hillary", etc... Many Republicans went far to the extreme in the last 15 years (Tea Party) and those politicians and media bloviators that try to appeal to them have been complicit in that movement toward madness.
 

MGrant

Member
Think about this, everyone who is always hammering the "get out and vote" mantra. Even if you vote, they'll just change the rules and you lose. You need to actually engage in serious politics if you want to prevent the US from becoming (even more of) an oligarchy. Voting is only step 1.
 
Does the GOP in North Carolina not look at the themselves in the mirror and think "skeeter, are we the bad guys?"

It's like they're taking every step they can to fuck over the Democrats and fuck over social issues.

That's exactly what they want. The GOP has been slowly trying to morph the country into a single party state. And they're going to succeed as long as their only opposition at the moment keeps assuming that they act in good faith.
 
According to the Electoral Integrity Project (EIP), based out of Harvard and the University of Sydney:


Op-ed from a founding EIP academic:
North Carolina is no longer classified as a democracy


I can't find the full report on their website but I'm not sure it's even freely available yet.

Joe- Thanks for posting these threads. I've noticed you post a lot of stuff I've not seen talked about elsewhere! I have never heard about the Electoral Integrity Project! I think it is amazing that there is this spotlight on what is going on in places like NC. It will further cement how insane things have gotten and how dangerous the republicans are!
 

Joe

Member
Link doesn't work

Thanks, fixed.

Joe- Thanks for posting these threads. I've noticed you post a lot of stuff I've not seen talked about elsewhere! I have never heard about the Electoral Integrity Project! I think it is amazing that there is this spotlight on what is going on in places like NC. It will further cement how insane things have gotten and how dangerous the republicans are!

I follow a lot of journalists and academics on Twitter and they're always posting interesting pieces that I like to share.
 

zethren

Banned
The GOP doesn't want a democratic system.

They only care about maintaining power. The constitution might as well be considered a road block, to them.

The party of small government is a fraud.
 
Americans don't have the perspective or fortitude to revolt. Not to mention it would be quashed in a second by the mighty militarized police force.

Maybe not right now, but when we continue along this path nationwide and even more people start suffering with no relief in sight perspective and fortitude will be fostered.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Indeed Carolina does so poorly on the measures of legal framework and voter registration, that on those indicators we rank alongside Iran and Venezuela. When it comes to the integrity of the voting district boundaries no country has ever received as low a score as the 7/100 North Carolina received. North Carolina is not only the worst state in the USA for unfair districting but the worst entity in the world ever analyzed by the Electoral Integrity Project.

So this is what Obama was talking about being a part of after he leaves office...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...districting/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.2a89386907c0
 
Seems Jefferson was right

"the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it’s natural manure."

It feels sad and inevitable at this point. humanity and civilization is too flawed to eliminate violence altogether.
I wonder how fast we're heading downhill.
 
The right's endgame is the return of the divine right of kings, with their talking heads serving as aristocrats, and the church used to control the masses. Seems like there's been a lot of progress on their end. The left can't afford to sit still and simply cry fowl anymore. They may walk on our backs, but we can shake the house from the ground up.
 
Do you want revolutions? Cause this is how you get revolutions.

The people that consider themselves the real patriots, those that love the second amendment above all others , the same ones that are allowed to build militias and open carry, the same ones who scream "We the People" and swear it's all to protect against tyranny and to protect the constitution. These people are ok with all this because it's never really been about the constitution, to them the constitution is nothing but a bumper sticker on their trucks. It has always been about white supremacy and this is all just fine. You are not going to see a revolution here their is no need they are winning by bending the elections rules.
 
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