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[CalamityPixel]

Really hoping China cave in and say enough is enough and take action.

One day there will be nukes strapped on NK's missiles. It's best we don't let that happen.

 

[Sulik2]

NK can now hold Seoul and Tokyo as nuclear hostages. They won. Should have finished the job decades before they became a nuclear power and untouchable.

 

[Uhyve]

I mean if the missile defense systems can't do that then they are completely useless.

If they detected that, then why the warning alerts?

Better to be safe than sorry. There was still a slight chance the missile may have malfunctioned over Japan and caused some casualties. It was the right call to get people ready even if you were sure it wasn't going to make landfall.

Maybe. But North Korea have put alot of missiles in the sea near Japan, there's never been widespread warnings before. Seems to me at least, that officials thought that this was a genuine threat, to the point where they thought people should try to get underground. If that's the case, then why weren't defenses activated?

 

[reckless]

If they detected that, then why the warning alerts?


Maybe. But North Korea have put alot of missiles in the sea near Japan, there's never been widespread warnings before. Seems to me at least, that officials thought that this was a genuine threat that required people to get underground. Maybe defenses should have been activated.

Probably because previous missile tests didn't go over Japan, this one was unique in that regard.

Better safe then sorry, especially since there really isn't time to waste.

 

[kmfdmpig]

But you are the one who assumes Kim to be rational. What purpose would destroying South Korea (possibly using nuclear weapons) serve in case of an international attack on North Korea?
On the other hand, how do you know Kim won't escalate his threats further and further while his country's economy collapses (=his own end draws nearer) and as a final act of desperation attempt to annex South Korea after he has created a large amount of nuclear weapons? And why not, no one opposed him before when his arsenal was small, so why would they do so then?

North Korea has, expertly, pushed the envelope to keep its enemies afraid. It has extracted aid from doing so over the decades, although not so much in recent years. Its actions have been provocative, but there has been nothing to indicate that they don't act as a rational actor. Iraq and the Ukraine reinforce the idea that there's no real way to effectively fend off a superpower without nuclear weapons, so it was not irrational for them to pursue those.

Rationality, however, goes out the window when there is a major war declared against them as they'd know that they could not win an all out war with the US, so at that point reasons for restraint would go out the window. Whether they'd try to nuke the South, Guam, or Japan or not is unclear in such an event, but even without the many people that would die in South Korea in a conventional war, it's not really worth finding out.

 

[Theodran]

If that's the case, then why weren't defenses activated?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there are only two instances where anti-missile defenses work.

1. Upon launch.
2. Upon re-entry, close to the target.

Since the cruising altitude of the missile was quite high (550km at its highest) and the trajectory predicted that it would pass over Japan, they may have not seen any reason to use any anti-missile defenses they have.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Where are the dumbasses who didn't want to take NK seriously now. NK is unpredictable.

 

[Uhyve]

Probably because previous missile tests didn't go over Japan, this one was unique in that regard.

Better safe then sorry, especially since there really isn't time to waste.

I mean yeah, but it seems crazy to me to not activate our ICBM defences (GMD?). Just seems like such a huge risk to call their bluff.

Edit: I guess THAAD is the only defense over there. Doesn't seem designed for ICBMs...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that there are only two instances where anti-missile defenses work.

1. Upon launch.
2. Upon re-entry, close to the target.

Since the cruising altitude of the missile was quite high (550km at its highest) and the trajectory predicted that it would pass over Japan, they may have not seen any reason to use any anti-missile defenses they have.

If that's the case, then yeah, no need. Still don't get why they put out the warnings though if they knew the trajectory.

Guess it's just making me doubt our anti ICBM abilities. Which is alittle scary.

 

[Fenderputty]

But you are the one who assumes Kim to be rational. What purpose would destroying South Korea (possibly using nuclear weapons) serve in case of an international attack on North Korea?
On the other hand, how do you know Kim won't escalate his threats further and further while his country's economy collapses (=his own end draws nearer) and as a final act of desperation attempt to annex South Korea after he has created a large amount of nuclear weapons? And why not, no one opposed him before when his arsenal was small, so why would they do so then?

At this point I'm convinced you're being intentionally obtuse

 

[MadraptorMan]

I mean yeah, but it seems crazy to me to not activate our ICBM defences (GMD?). Just seems like such a huge risk to call their bluff.


If that's the case, then yeah, no need. Still don't get why they put out the warnings though.

Guess it's just making me doubt our anti ICBM abilities. Which is alittle scary.

They may have been concerned about falling debris... they were telling people to report any suspicious objects to the fire department/police on my local news this morning.

 

[Goodlife]

Where are the dumbasses who didn't want to take NK seriously now. NK is unpredictable.

Hasn't it done this a few times before?

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Bastards better not do anything to my food and porn haven.

Enough is enough, launch the RX-0 now.

 

[Funky Papa]

Where are the dumbasses who didn't want to take NK seriously now. NK is unpredictable.

There's nothing unpredictable about this and there's no reason to call names.

 

[Laughing Banana]

That North Korea is able to go this far in their nuclear programs despite going at it pretty much solo and under heavy sanctions of the US is literally the biggest blunders ever by all the so-called nuclear experts or watchdogs or whatever.

 

[Theodran]

I mean yeah, but it seems crazy to me to not activate our ICBM defences (GMD?). Just seems like such a huge risk to call their bluff.


If that's the case, then yeah, no need. Still don't get why they put out the warnings though if they knew the trajectory.

Guess it's just making me doubt our anti ICBM abilities. Which is alittle scary.

There's always a chance that it could integrate in flight and debris fall over landmass, which could cause damage and even casualties. It's always good to be on the alert, even when you think you are not in immediate danger.

 

[Uhyve]

There's nothing unpredictable about this and there's no reason to call names.

Did you predict that they'd fire an ICBM over Hokkaido?

Agreed though, no need to call names. Can't see how that'd help things.

There's always a chance that it could integrate in flight and debris fall over landmass, which could cause damage and even casualties. It's always good to be on the alert, even when you think you are not in immediate danger.

They may have been concerned about falling debris... they were telling people to report any suspicious objects to the fire department/police on my local news this morning.

I'm only going off the posts in this topic, but you send alerts to people's phones saying this:

A warning went off on my phone that told me to get into a secure building or underground, but ok?

With air raid sirens:

The phone alert wasn't the worst part for me. It was the freaking loudspeaker air raid sirens that were going off outside. So annoying. Managed to get back to sleep soon enough though.

It has a certain non-debris connotation to it. You're probably right, but I feel like we're not giving the proper seriousness to this situation.

 

[spazchicken]

I watched a news broadcast that said if NK launched at Hawaii, they would have 5 minutes to detect and confirm and another 15 minutes to warn the public before it hits.

That's scary enough but Japan is a lot closer to NK than Hawaii is.

 

[Funky Papa]

Did you predict that they'd fire an ICBM over Hokkaido?

Agreed though, no need to call names. Can't see how that'd help things.

Plenty of experts predicted more beligerant tests. It's what NK does. The only open question is the timing of them, since they are obviously not going to announce them.

You'd have to live in a different plane of existence to believe that NK is going to start behaving after given the circumstances. Coercion is their only strength.

 

[Vinnk]

I live in Kyushu and got no alert. Actually found out about it this morning by a text from a concerned friend. I don't really even know what I would have done if I did get the alert though. There is no underground to go to. Very few Japanese homes have basements. Mine sure doesn't. The nearest underground I know of is the shopping mall but that is more than 10 minutes away and closed that early in the morning.

Really gets me thinking.

There is really nothing I would be able to do in the few minutes between an alert and the result other than tell my wife and kids that I love them.

 

[Meffer]

NK truly wants to see the world burn. There's no benefit for it to threaten any other country as no country will want to side with them in the event of retaliation against NK. They just want to bully and harm. At this point the only way would be to force NK to stop if they actually enact war with any country.

 

[reckless]

I mean yeah, but it seems crazy to me to not activate our ICBM defences (GMD?). Just seems like such a huge risk to call their bluff.


If that's the case, then yeah, no need. Still don't get why they put out the warnings though if they knew the trajectory.

Guess it's just making me doubt our anti ICBM abilities. Which is alittle scary.

GMD has a terrible track record and is really the only defense against ICBMs until Aegis gets upgraded. It's also pretty much just for defending the U.S itself.

 

[ChainedMaster]

So it was dick-waving. And to all the alarmists: missiles aimed beyond Japan aren't actually more likely to malfunction and hit Japan than the usual Sea of Japan targeted missiles. They both could theoretically malfunction and hit Japan.

This is more symbolic than anything.

 

[Uhyve]

GMD has a terrible track record and is really the only defense against ICBMs until Aegis gets upgraded. It's also pretty much just for defending the U.S itself.

That sounds reassuring. Heh.

Not usually one to approve of increased military spending but hey, let's get that Aegis upgrade done...

Plenty of experts predicted more beligerant tests. It's what NK does. The only open question is the timing of them, since they are obviously not going to announce them.

You'd have to live in a different plane of existence to believe that NK is going to start behaving after given the circumstances. Coercion is their only strength.

Yeah, but launching an ICBM over Hokkaido is such a huge escalation from anything that they've ever done. People expect NK belligerency. But there's people in this thread acting like their previous launch over Japan is somehow comparable, when that was scheduled and announced to be a satellite, when this was an unannounced mystery ICBM flying over civilian populations. That's an insane escalation.

There's a difference between telling people to be calm when silly NK is kicking up a fuss and telling people to be calm when ICBMs are flying over their homes.

So it was dick-waving. And to all the alarmists: missiles aimed beyond Japan aren't actually more likely to malfunction and hit Japan than the usual Sea of Japan targeted missiles. They both could theoretically malfunction and hit Japan.

This is more symbolic than anything.

Just a guess but, I mean, with tech that is prone to failure, it seems obvious that there is more risk flying a missile over a populated area, than ditching it in the sea before you get to land...

 

[mercenar1e]

Hasn't it done this a few times before?

Every other test landed in the Sea of Japan. It appears the missile flew over Japan (show of force) the same thing happened to South Korea a few years ago but it resulted in the death of innocent civilians. They're only going to improve the nuclear program and missile technology. It's a shame the international community didn't do anything about them years ago.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Every other test landed in the Sea of Japan. It appears the missile flew over Japan (show of force) the same thing happened to South Korea a few years ago but it resulted in the death of innocent civilians. They're only going to improve the nuclear program and missile technology. It's a shame the international community didn't do anything about them years ago.

Can't fool me bro, I see your username. #NotImpartial

 

[Auto_aim1]

This is such a risky move. One of these missiles is going to fail and fall in a Japanese city and then...

 

[ChainedMaster]

Every other test landed in the Sea of Japan. It appears the missile flew over Japan (show of force) the same thing happened to South Korea a few years ago but it resulted in the death of innocent civilians. They're only going to improve the nuclear program and missile technology. It's a shame the international community didn't do anything about them years ago.

When did North Korea kill civilians with a missile? I don't recall this ever happening.

 

[Juicy Bob]

This might be a weird thing to say, but I'm impressed by the reaction and efficiency of the Japanese authorities to get a warning out to their citizens so quickly.

 

[MadraptorMan]

I'm only going off the posts in this topic, but you send alerts to people's phones saying this:


With air raid sirens:


It has a certain non-debris connotation to it. You're probably right, but I feel like we're not giving the proper seriousness to this situation.

Yeah the warning we got in Niigata/Touhoku sounds a lot different than what Kantou got.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

NK truly wants to see the world burn. There's no benefit for it to threaten any other country as no country will want to side with them in the event of retaliation against NK. They just want to bully and harm. At this point the only way would be to force NK to stop if they actually enact war with any country.

They want attention back in them, reignite discussion and hopefully discussion goes in their favor branding them as winners (i.e. he gets fewer sanctions)

 

[hydragonwarrior]

So it was dick-waving. And to all the alarmists: missiles aimed beyond Japan aren't actually more likely to malfunction and hit Japan than the usual Sea of Japan targeted missiles. They both could theoretically malfunction and hit Japan.

This is more symbolic than anything.

.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

There's nothing unpredictable about this and there's no reason to call names.

I'm sorry about the name calling.
It adds no value.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

That sounds reassuring. Heh.

Not usually one to approve of increased military spending but hey, let's get that Aegis upgrade done...


Yeah, but launching an ICBM over Hokkaido is such a huge escalation from anything that they've ever done. People expect NK belligerency. But there's people in this thread acting like their previous launch over Japan is somehow comparable, when that was scheduled and announced to be a satellite, when this was an unannounced mystery ICBM flying over civilian populations. That's an insane escalation.

There's a difference between telling people to be calm when silly NK is kicking up a fuss and telling people to be calm when ICBMs are flying over their homes.

Yeah, there may be some order to the belligerency but this is of a different magnitude and NK is not as predictable as some make them out to be.

I feel it's important to remember that NK shelled a South Korean island which ended up even killing and injuring some civilians years ago.
They have went beyond empty saber rattling in the past, even if it was a small scale engagement. It was still a childish and irrational move, where they used South Korean training exercises as an excuse for hostilities.
They literally shelled residential areas in response to some SK shells hitting open water (nowhere near NK territory).

I believe one prevailing theory is that the above incident was a result of some internal strife after Kim Jong Un was appointed successor. Shit like that is what scares me and should scare others.

We don't have very much real insight into what really goes on behind the scenes of this regime, which is what makes their increased military advances very frightening.

 

[Tacitus_]

Yeah, but launching an ICBM over Hokkaido is such a huge escalation from anything that they've ever done. People expect NK belligerency. But there's people in this thread acting like their previous launch over Japan is somehow comparable, when that was scheduled and announced to be a satellite, when this was an unannounced mystery ICBM flying over civilian populations. That's an insane escalation.

They've launched missiles over Japan before, they've shelled a SK town which killed several civilians and torpedoed a SK boat that killed over 40 sailors. So not really a huge escalation.

 

[Log4Girlz]

NK will obtain a full nuclear deterrent. Nothing is going to change that.

 

[Uhyve]

They've launched missiles over Japan before, they've shelled a SK town which killed several civilians and torpedoed a SK boat that killed over 40 sailors. So not really a huge escalation.

I thought that there was only the scheduled satellite launch, am I forgetting something? Honest question, I'll concede this one if so... to a certain extent. I mean, I very much doubt they've ever threatened a civilian population with a potentially nuclear armed ICBM before.

Right now, Googling North Korean missile launches is kind of impossible.

 

[mcarlie]

NK can now hold Seoul and Tokyo as nuclear hostages. They won. Should have finished the job decades before they became a nuclear power and untouchable.

So much for "strategic patience".

 

[BudokaiMR2]

They've launched missiles over Japan before, they've shelled a SK town which killed several civilians and torpedoed a SK boat that killed over 40 sailors. So not really a huge escalation.

I'm not an expert, but the incident in 2009 was not a missile. I don't know anything about the 1998 incident that others mentioned but I doubt they had self-propelled missile technology able to fly over Japan at that point.

Rocket =/= Missile.

The 2009 launch was just a rocket with a satellite payload that failed and instead dropped into the Pacific.

Your other points are valid, though it is important to remember that technically SK and NK are still at war. In the geopolitical world there is a big difference between those hostilities and possibly putting another sovereign nation at risk.

I mean, obviously, NK doesn't give a fuck about those nuances.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Yeah, but launching an ICBM over Hokkaido is such a huge escalation from anything that they've ever done. People expect NK belligerency. But there's people in this thread acting like their previous launch over Japan is somehow comparable, when that was scheduled and announced to be a satellite, when this was an unannounced mystery ICBM flying over civilian populations. That's an insane escalation.

Because before they didn't have an american president threatening them with nuclear bombs.

They are acting accordingly to the verbal escalation Trump has been doing in the last weeks.

 

[SRG01]

The most effective way to stop NK missile launches is a full border blockade. Of course, not all world powers would be willing to play ball... Wasn't there speculation that they were getting their missile tech from a missile factory from Eastern Ukraine?

 

[encephalon]

I've heard air raid sirens here before, but nothing like the dissonant meandering tone that i heard today. I guess I would describe it as "the sound of nausea." Then my phone kept saying missairu hassha.. missairu hassha. Missile fired. Missile fired. I grabbed a go bag and then realized i had no idea of where to go.
Then i was told the safest place might be my bathroom. In the end it went off at a really convenient time - 6:10 am. After the panic subsided i just went through my day as usual.

The funny thing is they didn't use the more serious veep veep veep tone for bigger earthquakes.

 

[mercenar1e]

Because before they didn't have an american president threatening them with nuclear bombs.

They are acting accordingly to the verbal escalation Trump has been doing in the last weeks.

they have been doing this for years. Let's look past the Trump hate GAF bubble.

 

[thekiddfran]

The whole government in NK need to assassinated asap

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

they have been doing this for years. Let's look past the Trump hate GAF bubble.

Is clear that they are scalating their boldness and preassure for a reason.

 

[nekkid]

The whole government in NK need to assassinated asap

 

[Uhyve]

they have been doing this for years. Let's look past the Trump hate GAF bubble.

They've only recently had the technological capability to make their threats a reality... Though I think the Trump presidency is just a very unfortunate coincidence.

.

I mean, if they could somehow do that without retaliation... you'd have 25 million brainwashed people without a government, okay yeah that probably wouldn't be great.

 

[CazTGG]

The whole government in NK need to assassinated asap

And then what do you do with the millions of people left in a leaderless country before it becomes a power vacuum?

 

[Tacitus_]

I thought that there was only the scheduled satellite launch, am I forgetting something? Honest question, I'll concede this one if so... to a certain extent. I mean, I very much doubt they've ever threatened a civilian population with a potentially nuclear armed ICBM before.

I'm not an expert, but the incident in 2009 was not a missile. I don't know anything about the 1998 incident that others mentioned but I doubt they had self-propelled missile technology able to fly over Japan at that point.
.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taepodong-1

So if you want to get technical, it was not an ICBM, "merely" a ballistic missile based on Scud. But they don't need an ICBM to hit Japan so the difference here is negligible.

 

[Astral Dog]

Fuck North Korea even Trump knows about it

 

[NJDEN]

And then what do you do with the millions of people left in a leaderless country before it becomes a power vacuum?

Rogue nuclear weapons aside, the opportunity for the people of NK to change their current situation (mass starvation, and concentration camps) in a power vacuum might be great.