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[see5harp]

Were the 360's MS is giving away manufactured for the purpose of the promotion? That doesn't sound very likely, it's much more likely that they had a ton of excess refurbished units leftover from the RROD fiasco and needed a way to dump them off. So if this is the case then it wouldn't be feasible for Sony or Nintendo to run a similar promotion.

You honestly think that they were giving away refurbished 360's? I thought they were just standard units off the shelf.

 

[Frankfurt]

Well there is one way to completely skew NPD results. Give away 400k worth of free systems.

Uh... Are we ignoring that the 360 has been in 1st place every month lately? 250k one month, 270k another, 300k another?

Why would it suddenly drop to last place and only sell 100k? It would still have been first, look up the previous months.

Also, you get a free PS3 with a Bravia too, people.

 

[BurntPork]

I'm not sure why the promo numbers are considered a cause for concern.

1) Can other publishers do similar promos? Yes, absolutely. If they choose not to or it's not economical for them, okay, but that doesn't preclude the sales from counting. Like Wii Play; Microsoft and Sony could have sold a $10 game with a controller. They didn't. Maybe if they did they would have done as well, maybe not. But they didn't do it. Doesn't make it not count that Nintendo did.

2) Do other promos ($100 GC, for example) count? Yes, absolutely. And they should. And price drops should. A console sold is a console sold, whether it's at a profit, break-even, as a promotion, or at a loss. We don't say that Sony is cheating by selling the PS3 at launch at an enormous loss. We don't say platform holders are cheating by bundling games with their consoles, or offering holiday promos, or per-game special edition consoles. We don't say platform holders are cheating by cutting their price. All's fair.

If Microsoft thinks it's economically viable to run a promo that sells 200k 360s (assuming 100% of the month-to-month growth is account for by the promo), then that's their prerogative.

I guess my point is that if you're asking "Why is the 360 selling more?", the promo is a good answer. If you're saying "Because the promo was responsible for the growth, the growth doesn't count or isn't impressive or doesn't mean anything", that makes no sense to me.

For the record, I never counted Wii Sports or Wii Play sales as legit, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Otherwise, we have to count AR Games and Face Raiders into 3DS software sales.

 

[Karma]

Just for clarification. I get the impression that some people believe the additional 200+ promotional numbers shouldn't count.

As Stumpokapow stated, the numbers are valid.

Then those people are being silly.

Like I said I have seen free PS3s with Bravia purchase at Best Buy many times over the past few years. Those were not limited to students either.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Yeah...no without good battery life it'll fail too, no one gives a shit about a handheld you have to keep on a leash.

Strangely enough that didn't stop the PSP from actually selling really well.

I'm just citing the hypocrisy of going "RAH RAH VITA HELL YEAH SAVE US WITH YOUR GRAPHICS!" while shitting on the 3DS for its "horrible" battery life.

But the battery thing is still a big fat red herring and exaggerated. The only portable device in the last six years with better-than-decent battery for its output was the DS Lite.

The PSP, the DSi, the iPhone, the iPod Touch... all these devices have what is actually modest battery life under heavy, gamerlike usage. They sure did all fail and sell like crap.

Just like the 3DS battery life issue was hyper exaggerated, especially within the curve of how people actually use a DS style portable - playing in bursts and closing the lid to sleep constantly through the day. It's the same reason the PSP ended up being acceptable due to the ability to sleep the system instantly in the middle of gameplay.

 

[Kagari]

Were the 360's MS is giving away manufactured for the purpose of the promotion? That doesn't sound very likely, it's much more likely that they had a ton of excess refurbished units leftover from the RROD fiasco and needed a way to dump them off. So if this is the case then it wouldn't be feasible for Sony or Nintendo to run a similar promotion.

Um, they're brand new units.

 

[Jomjom]

Were the 360's MS is giving away manufactured for the purpose of the promotion? That doesn't sound very likely, it's much more likely that they had a ton of excess refurbished units leftover from the RROD fiasco and needed a way to dump them off. So if this is the case then it wouldn't be feasible for Sony or Nintendo to run a similar promotion.

Kidding right? Obviously there was a deal with the participating laptop manus for a subsidy. Also taking a small loss to get your system in homes for the long term benefit of extra game, online, and subscription income is incredibly smart business.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Also taking a small loss to get your system in homes for the long term benefit of extra game, online, and subscription income is incredibly smart business.

.

 

[Huff]

Just for clarification. I get the impression that some people believe the additional 200+ promotional numbers shouldn't count.

As Stumpokapow stated, the numbers are valid.

I think most are just trying to find a reason for the large increase in sales for no apparent reason rather than to say these numbers shouldn't count.

 

[Lonely1]

The PSP, the DSi, the iPhone, the iPod Touch... all these devices have what is actually modest battery life under heavy, gamerlike usage.

I have to disagree. The iTouch has terrible battery life for gaming-like usage. Is likely that Vita will have respectbale battery life, because it did some concessions:

- Is considerably bigger.
- Non user replaceable battery.

There's no option of buying a Nyko battery and double it's life for $20.

 

[[Nintex]]

No wonder The Pokemon Company is secretly making out with the iOS market. Nintendo totally blew it and they just seem to be on some sort of crash course to continue sucking. They certainly have to come out kicking with a bunch of new Wii U games. What else has their main workforce done these last few years?

 

[Seraphinianus]

I can't believe MS cheated like this for this month's NPD. I am selling my 360 and buying a PS3 for sure now.

 

[BurntPork]

Can you be a fanboy if you're against something? I haven't argued about videogames since I started shaving but back then, a fanboy was someone that was blindly for something, not against.

Okay, graphics whore.

No wonder The Pokemon Company is secretly making out with the iOS market. Nintendo totally blew it and they just seem to be on some sort of crash course to continue sucking. They certainly have to come out kicking with a bunch of new Wii U games. What else has their main workforce done these last few years?

 

[nincompoop]

You honestly think that they were giving away refurbished 360's? I thought they were just standard units off the shelf.

Do you honestly think they wouldn't do something like that? I don't know if they are or not, but it seems a lot more likely than MS sitting around and saying "Hey, we have the top selling console hardware atm and we're making a profit on every unit sold, why don't we manufacture a bunch of them and give them away for free?"

 

[Shalashaska161]

If anything this promo has shown that Sony should start trying to find alternative ways to get PS3's into peoples homes. Free PS3 with TV purchase perhaps?

 

[lowrider007]

Wait.

So the 3DS "fails as a portable" because its "shit battery life".

So battery life of 3 hours is the criteria for a failed portable. This is the song that's been sung from every venue in the last few months.

But the Vita is acceptable as a failed portable because of jawsome graphics.

If this isn't confirmation that the only thing that matters to the hardcore is graphics, I don't know what is.

Yes, 'acceptable', not good by any stretch, but seemly justifiable for what we are getting.

You've got to remember also that upgrading from a PSP to a Vita and having similar battery life with exceptionally higher quality graphics, screen, higher resolution etc is a lot easier pill to swallow than going from a ds xl/lite with 13 to 17 hours battery life on low brightness to a 3DS with about 3-4 hours battery life.

 

[Gravijah]

For the record, I never counted Wii Sports or Wii Play sales as legit, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Otherwise, we have to count AR Games and Face Raiders into 3DS software sales.

I'm not sure how Wii Play, which isn't bundled with a console, is the same as AR Games & Face Raiders, which are bundled with a console and cannot be bought separately.

Were the 360's MS is giving away manufactured for the purpose of the promotion? That doesn't sound very likely, it's much more likely that they had a ton of excess refurbished units leftover from the RROD fiasco and needed a way to dump them off. So if this is the case then it wouldn't be feasible for Sony or Nintendo to run a similar promotion.

...Really?

 

[Jomjom]

I think most are just trying to find a reason for the large increase in sales for no apparent reason rather than to say these numbers shouldn't count.

I dont think its a huge increase. Looking at past months 360 generally sells a little less than double the ps3 numbers.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Do you honestly think they wouldn't do something like that? I don't know if they are or not, but it seems a lot more likely than MS sitting around and saying "Hey, we have the top selling console hardware atm and we're making a profit on every unit sold, why don't we manufacture a bunch of them and give them away for free?"

That's crazy.
You're crazy.

 

[Lord Error]

Heh, I just realized Infamous would be #1 on the chart with the old way the chart was, where everything was broken down by a platform. I really didn't think the game would do this good, but I think they finally managed to properly present it as one of the best superhero games there is, and it must have helped.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

So how terrible are SotD's sales?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

nincompoop
nincompoop
(Today, 04:32 PM)
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[Kai Dracon]

I have to disagree. The iTouch has terrible battery life for gaming-like usage.

Sorry, by "modest" I mean it's nothing to brag about. So yeah, for a serious gamer that'd be fairly bad battery life.

Yet that's the point. PSP, iPhone, iPod Touch... these "failed" devices all had degrees of poor battery life for gaming.

Now someone will come in and say "but the iOS devices do so much more! That's why they were a success!"

... which just undermines the argument of them selling so strongly as gaming devices, I think. What's the real point of the comparison if most of the "gaming" duties of the iOS devices is comprised of lightweight, battery friendly apps like Angry Birds that people just so happen to download because they've got the device anyway?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

I don't think you've seen the state of Android's marketplace. It absolutely needs something like this. And rebuying PS1 games is not part of the suite; the suite isn't available yet.

Except Suite isn't a solution for Android's store, it's a solution for Sony certified devices. Which again, the massmarket won't care about, they'll just keep buying their Droids, Evos and iPhones.

And PS1 games most certainly are part of PS Suite, as well as the confirmation those titles will need to be purchased separately from the PSN PS Classics service. This should be less of an issue for Vita though, since it will offer both services and PSP/PS3 owners can just transfer the titles.

Bwahahaha

Cmon man, you're being totally disingenuous here.

Tell that to the sea of dudebros who will think exactly that. It really is PSP all over again.

 

[Karma]

If anything this promo has shown that Sony should start trying to find alternative ways to get PS3's into peoples homes. Free PS3 with TV purchase perhaps?

Sony has already done this and no one was calling it cheating.

 

[Papercuts]

For the record, I never counted Wii Sports or Wii Play sales as legit, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Otherwise, we have to count AR Games and Face Raiders into 3DS software sales.

Even if you didn't count them as legit, the sales were still listed. IIRC wii play has ~27 million units sold; even if people didn't buy it for the game itself, there's still that many units fluctuating in households.

 

[Heysoos]

Do you honestly think they wouldn't do something like that? I don't know if they are or not, but it seems a lot more likely than MS sitting around and saying "Hey, we have the top selling console hardware atm and we're making a profit on every unit sold, why don't we manufacture a bunch of them and give them away for free?"

Really....? As has been stated many times these are brand new slim units.

 

[walking fiend]

So how terrible are SotD's sales?

<25K combined.

 

[Kagari]

If anything this promo has shown that Sony should start trying to find alternative ways to get PS3's into peoples homes. Free PS3 with TV purchase perhaps?

Typically, they have this deal during Christmas.

 

[Vinci]

Even if you didn't count them as legit, the sales were still listed. IIRC wii play has ~27 million units sold; even if people didn't buy it for the game itself, there's still that many units fluctuating in households.

They paid $10 more for that product. It counts. Sony and MS, and any other company, are free to release a $10 game and sell a ton if they want. And those would count also.

 

[Seraphinianus]

If anything this promo has shown that Sony should start trying to find alternative ways to get PS3's into peoples homes. Free PS3 with TV purchase perhaps?

Sony has already done this and no one was calling it cheating.

more importantly, it didn't work as well as this laptop promo.

MS just went outside the obvious "game system + TV" combo, targeted the student demographic with a laptop promo, and it worked.

 

[szaromir]

... which just undermines the argument of them selling so strongly as gaming devices, I think. What's the real point of the comparison if most of the "gaming" duties of the iOS devices is comprised of lightweight, battery friendly apps like Angry Birds that people just so happen to download because they've got the device anyway?

I'm sure most of my DS time was Picross, Advance Wars and other lightweight games, not the ones that trtied to push the system with advanced 3D engines. The comparison is relevant.

 

[Lonely1]

Sony has already done this and no one was calling it cheating.

Is not cheating... But is an explanation for the sudden increase of 360 sales.

I'm sure most of my DS time was Picross, Advance Wars and other lightweight games, not the ones that trtied to push the system with advanced 3D engines. The comparison is relevant.

Good, because the 3DS clocks well over 7 hours while playing Bejeweld and Plants vs Zombies. While the iTouch is closer to 2.5 hours.

 

[Stumpokapow]

For the record, I never counted Wii Sports or Wii Play sales as legit, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Otherwise, we have to count AR Games and Face Raiders into 3DS software sales.

It doesn't take ten braincells to separate these cases.

- Wii Play: Customers had to buy it. It was a controller + $10 game. Counts as a software sale in all possible ways. Nothing prevents others from selling the games for $10 or doing controller bundles. Microsoft even did do a controller bundle, it didn't sell well.

- Wii Sports: Included with the system in US/Europe, sold in Japan (where it did well). Japan console sold for less than US/Europe console, implying the software was incorporated in the pricepoint. People clearly spent time playing it. It was clearly a major draw. Is a physical game. Doesn't count as software sale in US/EU on a monthly basis, but overall numbers shipped count and I would include it in the tie ratio.

- AR Games / Face Raiders: Included everywhere, tiny distractions, no indication that they are even remotely a draw to the system. Is not a physical game. Doesn't count as software sale on a monthly basis, does not count as software for a tie ratio point of view.

 

[BurntPork]

Even if you didn't count them as legit, the sales were still listed. IIRC wii play has ~27 million units sold; even if people didn't buy it for the game itself, there's still that many units fluctuating in households.

Since 26.999 million of those are being used as coasters, I don't think that we, as gamers, should count it.

It doesn't take ten braincells to separate these cases.

- Wii Play: Customers had to buy it. It was a controller + $10 game. Counts as a software sale in all possible ways. Nothing prevents others from selling the games for $10 or doing controller bundles. Microsoft even did do a controller bundle, it didn't sell well.

- Wii Sports: Included with the system in US/Europe, sold in Japan (where it did well). Japan console sold for less than US/Europe console, implying the software was incorporated in the pricepoint. People clearly spent time playing it. It was clearly a major draw. Is a physical game. Doesn't count as software sale in US/EU on a monthly basis, but overall numbers shipped count and I would include it in the tie ratio.

- AR Games / Face Raiders: Included everywhere, tiny distractions, no indication that they are even remotely a draw to the system. Is not a physical game. Doesn't count as software sale on a monthly basis, does not count as software for a tie ratio point of view.

And yet people count free Angry Birds downloads in its sales.

 

[Jomjom]

Do you honestly think they wouldn't do something like that? I don't know if they are or not, but it seems a lot more likely than MS sitting around and saying "Hey, we have the top selling console hardware atm and we're making a profit on every unit sold, why don't we manufacture a bunch of them and give them away for free?"

You know you are suggesting that potentially any 360 that is sold as new could be refurbished right? I mean it wasn't like you were getting a 360 from a special refurbished pile if you got in on the laptop deal, you just got one of the shelf.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Yes, 'acceptable', not good by any stretch, but seemly justifiable for what we are getting.

You've got to remember also that upgrading from a PSP to a Vita and having similar battery life with exceptionally higher quality graphics, screen, higher resolution etc is a lot easier pill to swallow than going from a ds xl/lite with 13 to 17 hours battery life on low brightness to a 3DS with about 3-4 hours battery life.

Comparing a DSi XL to the other portable is a little unfair; you should start comparing it to an iPad at that point, due to the formfactor allowing a big battery.

The one thing I can't get is how perceptions are so warped as to see the 3DS visual upgrade as so "mediocre" in comparison to the DS - that's the part that rings so false with a lot of these dismissals of the 3DS. Even these "Oh god, worse than PSP graphics" comments from some, are such transparent hyperbole.

 

[see5harp]

Do you honestly think they wouldn't do something like that? I don't know if they are or not, but it seems a lot more likely than MS sitting around and saying "Hey, we have the top selling console hardware atm and we're making a profit on every unit sold, why don't we manufacture a bunch of them and give them away for free?"

That's not what you just said. You obviously think MS is releasing the old models of the 360 (based on your RROD statement) as new product and then making sure that retailers are grabbing the specific units marked "refurbished" and giving those away. That's insane.

 

[Busaiku]

Wonder what was the cause for the drop in PS3.

 

[Lonely1]

Comparing a DSi XL to the other portable is a little unfair; you should start comparing it to an iPad at that point, due to the formfactor allowing a big battery.

But Vita is in the same boat... even Sony accepted is more like a tablet device.

 

[EagleEyes]

I'm not sure why the promo numbers are considered a cause for concern.

1) Can other publishers do similar promos? Yes, absolutely. If they choose not to or it's not economical for them, okay, but that doesn't preclude the sales from counting. Like Wii Play; Microsoft and Sony could have sold a $10 game with a controller. They didn't. Maybe if they did they would have done as well, maybe not. But they didn't do it. Doesn't make it not count that Nintendo did.

2) Do other promos ($100 GC, for example) count? Yes, absolutely. And they should. And price drops should. A console sold is a console sold, whether it's at a profit, break-even, as a promotion, or at a loss. We don't say that Sony is cheating by selling the PS3 at launch at an enormous loss. We don't say platform holders are cheating by bundling games with their consoles, or offering holiday promos, or per-game special edition consoles. We don't say platform holders are cheating by cutting their price. All's fair.

If Microsoft thinks it's economically viable to run a promo that sells 200k 360s (assuming 100% of the month-to-month growth is account for by the promo), then that's their prerogative.

I guess my point is that if you're asking "Why is the 360 selling more?", the promo is a good answer. If you're saying "Because the promo was responsible for the growth, the growth doesn't count or isn't impressive or doesn't mean anything", that makes no sense to me.

Well put. I just believe there are people that have a hard time giving Microsoft credit about anything. They just put half a million consoles in peoples homes in one month. It was a brilliant move imo.

 

[LQX]

That 400K number from only the promo sounds like BS. The 360 has been out selling the other systems for months without this promotion and this month it would be 100K less than both the Wii and PS3 without the promo? That's wishful thinking to prop up the competition.

Ridiculous it would even matter in the first place. I along with many got a slim PS3 for $200 and a ton more got theirs with a $100 gift card from either Best Buy or Amazon. Moreover the Wii dropped to $150 and that to me is the biggest shocker as it did not seems to spur that many sales.

 

[Karma]

Wonder what was the cause for the drop in PS3.

No idea. They had the Black Ops bundle and a ton of gift card promos.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You know you are suggesting that potentially any 360 that is sold as new could be refurbished right? I mean it wasn't like you were getting a 360 from a special refurbished pile if you got in on the laptop deal, you just got one of the shelf.

there's a secret symbol encoded into the barcode so stores know to give out the refurb 360s.

 

[walking fiend]

But Vita is in the same boat... even Sony accepted is more like a tablet device.

they will release an XL version with better battery life sooner or later.

 

[Mael]

People like to compare the battery life in iOS devices to a device whose primary purpose is to play games. If you're using them for the same purpose, I believe the battery life is comparable.

Yeah no, people aren't buying iphones because they can't play Angry Birds or soemthing.
they're buying it because it's a cool phone that's my point.

Strangely enough that didn't stop the PSP from actually selling really well.

I'm just citing the hypocrisy of going "RAH RAH VITA HELL YEAH SAVE US WITH YOUR GRAPHICS!" while shitting on the 3DS for its "horrible" battery life.

But the battery thing is still a big fat red herring and exaggerated. The only portable device in the last six years with better-than-decent battery for its output was the DS Lite.

The PSP, the DSi, the iPhone, the iPod Touch... all these devices have what is actually modest battery life under heavy, gamerlike usage. They sure did all fail and sell like crap.

Just like the 3DS battery life issue was hyper exaggerated, especially within the curve of how people actually use a DS style portable - playing in bursts and closing the lid to sleep constantly through the day. It's the same reason the PSP ended up being acceptable due to the ability to sleep the system instantly in the middle of gameplay.

Yeah no.
Psp's battery is mitigated by the fact that it's actually rather hard to turn it off (instead of putting it on sleep mode) so it's less prone to crap battery life.
And it didn't sell in the west as a game device, seriously look at the software sales. I don't know why people bought it for here but it's not to play games that's for sure.
iPhones are not handheld systems, might as well include laptops and pc while talking about why the ps3 failed or something.
DSi is the 3rd incarnation of the wildly successful DS line, it'd have needed a rather big red flag for it to not sell....like the perfect storm the 3DS got actually.

 

[Lonely1]

That 400K number from only the promo sounds like BS. The 360 has been out selling the other systems for months without this promotion and this month it would be 100K less than both the Wii and PS3 without the promo? That's wishful thinking to prop up the competition.

Ridiculous it would even matter in the first place. I got my slim PS3 for $200 and a ton more got theirs with $100 gift card from either Best Buy or Amazon. Moreover the Wii dropped to $150 and that to me is the biggest shocker as it did not seems to spur that many sales.

It's BS. Is 400k of normal sales and +100k for the promo.

Yeah no.
Psp's battery is mitigated by the fact that it's actually rather hard to turn it off (instead of putting it on sleep mode) so it's less prone to crap battery life.

WTF!?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

They just put half a million consoles in peoples homes in one month.

If they drop that Arcade system to $149.99 for the holidays...quad damage.

 

[nincompoop]

Really....? As has been stated many times these are brand new slim units.

Well whatever the case is, I really doubt they would increase their production by a significant amount just so they could give a bunch of consoles away. The fact still remains that they wouldn't run a promotion like this if they didn't have a ton of excess supply for whatever reason that they needed to get rid of, and hence it would be unrealistic for Sony or Nintendo to run a similar promotion if they don't have excess supply themselves.

 

[TheOddOne]

there's a secret symbol encoded into the barcode so stores know to give out the refurb 360s.