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[Yoboman]

Yeah done arguing with dumb fucks, potential sales means it could have sold ~130-130m with a better governance and decisions it wasn't far from, guess I won't be leaking numbers or anything on this forum anytime.

Nobody gives a fuck about your made up analytics

 

[Shrennin]

We can say that it is a new binary and not emulating the actual code running on discs but sure, what they achieved is impressive.

You also are quite dismissive of what it means to integrate and reuse previous HW to ease BC and the cost/complexity of it, let alone that EU consoles have a huge list of compatible titles and lacked the complete SoC including the GS only and emulating the EE.

I am not aware they integrated the PS1 chipset in PS3 so that was emulated (not that they did. It already have a PowerPC processor acting as the PS1 brains before... see later revisions of PSTwo).

PS5 BC is excellent albeit more limited as it does not emulate PS1, PS2, or PS3 aside the small selection of PS2 classics.

I think we're on two different pages as to what we're arguing. PS3 era Sony is in the past. What PS2 and PS3 era Sony did doesn't matter to what is in the now.

The current leadership for Sony did not view BC as important until it was shown that it was a popular feature with Xbox and would help maintain players within the ecosystem. No one wants to continue buying the same games over and over again when the opposition is offering you a one time purchase to own it throughout all generations going forward.

Even now though you could argue that current Sony doesn't see BC as important beyond the generation before. They could easily implement BC for PS1 and PS2 titles if they wanted. PS3 is of course a different beast, though Microsoft's solution to BC for Xbox 360 to Xbox One/Xbox Series could potentially even solve that but it would take work that I'm not sure Sony would see as viable.

 

[reptilex]

So what's your prediction for Series consoles then?

Maybe around 30-40 million units?

Assuming that both companies do worse in the coming generation of course.

I haven't tracked signals enough to know about the Xbox, but yes probably 40-50millions at most

 

[reptilex]

I believe it will end reaching 130m with a new price cut.
You know they PS4 had more two or three years of sales yet.

Once a new generation is in, the previous one declines hard, in fact PS4 sales have already declined hard last year probably in retrospective projection pushing for a 2020 PS5 launch. It'll probably reach 120m, but unless there's a new model or worse for Sony, people are buying the PS4 over the PS5, it's unlikely that it'll be more.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I haven't tracked signals enough to know about the Xbox, but yes probably 40-50millions at most

That seems kind of low especially with the Series S.

 

[reptilex]

That seems kind of low especially with the Series S.

Right now they've sold half as much as the PS5 in the same period.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Right now they've sold half as much as the PS5 in the same period.

That could be just supply issues.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Once a new generation is in, the previous one declines hard, in fact PS4 sales have already declined hard last year probably in retrospective projection pushing for a 2020 PS5 launch. It'll probably reach 120m, but unless there's a new model or worse for Sony, people are buying the PS4 over the PS5, it's unlikely that it'll be more.

If Sony manages to get the price down to the $100-150 range it could replicate the PS2's success in the third world, perhaps

 

[Unknown?]

Backwards compatibility is already widely used on Xbox since it was incorporated for Xbox One in 2015. It's a core tenant of Game Pass. It spans across the generations.

That quote was just to show that in 2017, Ryan did indeed have the opinion that backwards compatibility wasn't something that Sony was interested in then but in 2020 that clearly changed (for one, Xbox showed it was a popular feature).

Ryan used GT as an example, but he was referring to backwards compatibility as a whole. He doesn't say it's only restrictive to GT. He's using it to make a broader point about backwards compatibility, whether it was GT or Final Fantasy.

He was wrong.

Nah you're wrong. Cerny said they set out to have PS5 run PS4 games from the start of designing their new chip. They already had that planned in 2017.

The GT quote is as I said, it wasn't to say every old game wasn't good to play but at that even it was. No one wants to go back and play Madden 99. They want to play the most realistic version they can. GT is the same, it has similar gameplay but obviously the older ones will have way worse graphics, gameplay, and inferior cars to select from.

Once a new generation is in, the previous one declines hard, in fact PS4 sales have already declined hard last year probably in retrospective projection pushing for a 2020 PS5 launch. It'll probably reach 120m, but unless there's a new model or worse for Sony, people are buying the PS4 over the PS5, it's unlikely that it'll be more.

PS4 dropped hard because it's still $299/$399. It's only $100 cheaper than a PS5. I suspect that was part of their plan for high turnover. If they keep it artificially high people can sell their PS4 to keep the PS5 relatively cheap. If they drop it permanently to $199 it'll have some extra life.

 

[Major_Key]

People forget that the Xbox one could not create momentum like the 360 did, between late 2007 and 2009 + Kinect in 2010.

The Series S / X will be a tough one to analyze as we don't yet know the impact the Series S/XGP will have on casual / mainstream players.

+

They have games + BIG IP that can create momentum, Starfield / Fallout / TES if they are XBOX/PC only, + the release rate that the XGS will have.

Halo Infinite MP too, if it is a success on PC, it will create a big hype on the console market (F2P). From February we will have a more detailed response when stocks will increasingly meet demand.

But I believe the Series S/X will sell lot more than Xone. (70M if they deliver excellent games constantly)

 

[Unknown?]

People forget that the Xbox one could not create momentum like the 360 did, between late 2007 and 2009 + Kinect in 2010.

The Series S / X will be a tough one to analyze as we don't yet know the impact the Series S/XGP will have on casual / mainstream players.

+

They have games + BIG IP that can create momentum, Starfield / Fallout / TES if they are XBOX/PC only, + the release rate that the XGS will have.

Halo Infinite MP too, if it is a success on PC, it will create a big hype on the console market (F2P). From February we will have a more detailed response when stocks will increasingly meet demand.

But I believe the Series S/X will sell lot more than Xone. (70M if they deliver excellent games constantly)

Nah I don't think it will but it might outpace X1 after 3-4 years in the same timeframe.

 

[Rolla]

Yeah done arguing with dumb fucks, potential sales means it could have sold ~130-130m with a better governance and decisions it wasn't far from, guess I won't be leaking numbers or anything on this forum anytime.

Are you a verified source? I'm asking because I don't see any mod verified or otherwise acknowledgment from the mod team. And we've had a lot of "insiders" recently who, when you break it down of course, were just talking like they knew something but in reality that wasn't the case at all.

 

[Lokimaru]

Imagine what the numbers would be if People bought them and not Bots.

 

[Shrennin]

Nah you're wrong. Cerny said they set out to have PS5 run PS4 games from the start of designing their new chip. They already had that planned in 2017.

The GT quote is as I said, it wasn't to say every old game wasn't good to play but at that even it was. No one wants to go back and play Madden 99. They want to play the most realistic version they can. GT is the same, it has similar gameplay but obviously the older ones will have way worse graphics, gameplay, and inferior cars to select from.

Well then Time who conducted the interview in 2017 was wrong too because they clearly were referring to backwards compatibility as a whole and clearly mention that's to what Ryan was referring to. There's no indication that he was referring to a certain type of game with backwards compatibility. It's just not there.

Let's take the GT part out and focus on this part:

Another concern occasionally raised by PlayStation devotees involves the company's once-ubiquitous PlayStation 2. While Sony has in recent years devoted resources to bringing a handful of popular older titles to the PlayStation 4, the better part of that library is lost to time. For now, it seems that's where it'll remain. "When we've dabbled with backwards compatibility, I can say it is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much..."

 

[Unknown?]

Well then Time who conducted the interview in 2017 was wrong too because they clearly were referring to backwards compatibility as a whole and clearly mention that's to what Ryan was referring to. There's no indication that he was referring to a certain type of game with backwards compatibility. It's just not there.

Time is a terrible magazine and I didn't take it as him saying why would you play any old game and on the other point Sony built the PS5 from the getgo with BC in mind. It wasn't an afterthought because of MS and that's also why they went with X86 architecture on the PS4.

 

[Shrennin]

Time is a terrible magazine and I didn't take it as him saying why would you play any old game and on the other point Sony built the PS5 from the getgo with BC in mind. It wasn't an afterthought because of MS and that's also why they went with X86 architecture on the PS4.

Ok, well... then we're just going to have to disagree because they also quote Jim Ryan talking about backwards compatibility as a whole when they make that statement. It's absolutely clear he's talking about backwards compatibility and the thoughts of it with Sony as a whole back then. The GT statement was an anecdote Jim Ryan used to reinforce his idea that backwards compatibility as a whole was not used much - and thus Sony did not see much value in it at the time.

They developed the PS4 with X86 architecture in mind because the PS3's architecture was horrible.

 

[Rolla]

Given what we're learning about the XBOX series X/S in comparison to the XBOX launch in 2013 the wording of this tweet begins to seem more of a PR play on words. Especially when you consider that XBOX is down in its home territory by a decent margin according to the "actual sales" data. Could it be that when Phil uses the word "Largest" people wrongly interpreted that as "best-selling?"

Given the data saying that XBOX sold more consoles, in more markets, is still a true statement. But at the same time being down significantly in traditional markets.

United States
Spain
France
Australia
New Zealand
Japan.

Seem to be showing a trend. The only counter is the 5K more sold in the UK. I hope XBOX releases more data.

 

[Unknown?]

Given what we're learning about the XBOX series X/S in comparison to the XBOX launch in 2013 the wording of this tweet begins to seem more of a PR play on words. Especially when you consider that XBOX is down in its home territory by a decent margin according to the "actual sales" data. Could it be that when Phil uses the word "Largest" people wrongly interpreted that as "best-selling?"

Given the data saying that XBOX sold more consoles, in more markets, is still a true statement. But at the same time being down significantly in traditional markets.

United States
Spain
France
Australia
New Zealand
Japan.

Seem to be showing a trend. The only counter is the 5K more sold in the UK. I hope XBOX releases more data.

That sounds probably right. Maybe overall it beat X1 because it launched in many more countries but is down in the countries it launched last time.

 

[Tschumi]

Rakuten forecaster growing in stature every day~

 

[reptilex]

Are you a verified source? I'm asking because I don't see any mod verified or otherwise acknowledgment from the mod team. And we've had a lot of "insiders" recently who, when you break it down of course, were just talking like they knew something but in reality that wasn't the case at all.

I'm not interested in being verified, I won't drop anything on this forum, not that I have access to that much more than people who'd closely follow reports, PR lines, market "insider" infos etc...since I'm not announcing any new but the consensus of trend analytics on the PS5 sales forecast in it's current state (not to be confused with fake analyst like Patcher or Ming-Kuos who are actually PRs).

And the best way to convince non-analysts with prospective, is to drop the cast and wait for time to show it, in this case, next-year growth of PS5 compared to the PS4 back then will be good enough of an obvious signal.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Imagine what the numbers would be if People bought them and not Bots.

... the same?

 

[reptilex]

If Sony manages to get the price down to the $100-150 range it could replicate the PS2's success in the third world, perhaps

PS4 dropped hard because it's still $299/$399. It's only $100 cheaper than a PS5. I suspect that was part of their plan for high turnover. If they keep it artificially high people can sell their PS4 to keep the PS5 relatively cheap. If they drop it permanently to $199 it'll have some extra life.

Not likely, 2020 markets don't follow the same rules as 2006 even in third world countries, plus late life-cycle price-drops enable the further rounding of numbers with an inertia that is already dictated by the preceding growth dynamics, it does not change these dynamics.

 

[Aloy's Bad Hair Day]

Countries that were '3rd world' in 2006 are in many cases now well developed economies with growing affluent middle classes. This applies particularly to SE Asia and the ME - their gaming populations have grown significantly, and while piracy is still commonplace (which was a big reason for PS2's huge success), paid-for sales and market sizes are growing.

Well, at least for Sony and Nintendo. This is why MS is hoping to get into these and markets like India via XCloud and GP, bypassing the traditional ownership model and looking at lowest possible cost-of-entry.

 

[mckmas8808]

Not likely, 2020 markets don't follow the same rules as 2006 even in third world countries, plus late life-cycle price-drops enable the further rounding of numbers with an inertia that is already dictated by the preceding growth dynamics, it does not change these dynamics.

If the PS4 was $199 with a game full time, it'll still be selling perfectly fine. The issue is Sony loves money too much. The PS4 Pro should be $250 at this point.

 

[carlosrox]

So switch outsold PS5 ? Crazy considering it has so few games worth playing.

If you like missing out on numerous amazing games found nowhere else, sure.

Tell me about all these amazing PS5 games that just launched.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Congrats to Sony but to be honest I was already expecting it. Xbox on the other hand, I was not expecting that.



And holy fuck at the Sony warriors in this thread.

 

[Bittermich]

How can this be?
Switch sold 1.3 million units.
PS4 sold 1.5m+ consoles in November 2013.

how can PS5 have the most successful launch? Doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[MasterCornholio]

How can this be?
Switch sold 1.3 million units.
PS4 sold 1.5m+ consoles in November 2013.

how can PS5 have the most successful launch? Doesn't make any sense at all.

Because they are probably just talking about launch month sales. The Switch didn't launch last November so they are not making a reference to those numbers.

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

Looks like some nintendo fans have a hard time to acknowledge this fact.

 

[ethomaz]

How can this be?
Switch sold 1.3 million units.
PS4 sold 1.5m+ consoles in November 2013.

how can PS5 have the most successful launch? Doesn't make any sense at all.

PS4 sold 1.14m in NPD November 2013.
Switch launch was 906k in March 2017.

PS5 > 1.14m > 906k

Most successful launch by a good margin I believe.

 

[BeforeU]

people jumping on a chance to shit in Xbox forgetting one simple fact. Its sold out in NA. Console launch month is ultimately defined by the # of units available to sell. PS5 was ready well before XS and was in manufacturing state well before XS.

 

[thelastword]

The top ten are all very high selling games...From the time LOU 2 released, it has been on the best sellers for the year........I was told it bombed though, so I don't know how it works out that's it's always on the best selling list.....I guess consistent and very high ales does that, but I may be wrong....




Also could not be prouder of Ghosts of Tsushima, what an excellent open world combat game..........Top notch visuals and a dream to play....PS Studios can only go up next gen......I think GT7, Savage Starlight, Spiderman 2, GOW 2 want to top some lists in the near future....