Support NeoGAF

[rjcc]

You may have misunderstood what I said, but I never stated that Wii controls were better than 360/PS3 controls. I don't believe that's close to true and I apologize for the misunderstanding.

ok, if you don't think the wii controls are better, then why would anyone choose the wii version over the 360/ps3, as a interface vs. graphics choice?


(a: no one would, there is no reason to unless you only have a Wii, we both think the controls suck, and the graphics are worse, the feature set is more limited, there is absolutely no reason to buy the wii version, and that's why its surprising it even sold as many copies as it did)

 

[mepaco]

what makes you think the wii madden interface is in any way superior to the 360/ps3 control scheme? even if the graphics were the same, I'm not trying to play with that waggle bullshit.

Wow, close mindedness FTW. Have you even tried it? I'm not saying everybody is going to love it, but calling it 'waggle bullshit' clearly indicates you haven't.

 

[felipeko]

Madden Wii, as Tiger Wii, will have long long legs.... I don't know why are you guys so upset by just a month numbers.
I know i'm not, even if i know i will end up banned for that ;D

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

ok, if you don't think the wii controls are better, then why would anyone choose the wii version over the 360/ps3, as a interface vs. graphics choice?


(a: no one would, there is no reason to unless you only have a Wii, we both think the controls suck, and the graphics are worse, the feature set is more limited, there is absolutely no reason to buy the wii version, and that's why its surprising it even sold as many copies as it did)

Because I believe some people think the Wii interface is better. Neither you nor I are the arbiters for what determines the superior control method is; the consumers are.

 

[schuelma]

Madden Wii, as Tiger Wii, will have long long legs.... I don't know why are you guys so upset by just a month numbers.
I know i'm not, even if i know i will end up banned for that ;D

You do know that bdoughty is letting you off the hook for that bet right? I'd take his offer if I were you.

 

[felipeko]

You do know that bdoughty is letting you off the hook for that bet right? I'd take his offer if I were you.

Oh, lol, i didn't notice that...
Anyway... i'm wasting so much time on GAF lately that being banned wouldn't really hut :lol

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This'll be the third time I've posted this, but Prime 1 sold 250k in 10 days. Prime 3 did this 218k in 5 days (it's not 4, people, it's 5. Sep 1st is counted). So it's almost the same in half the time, and in August, whereas Prime 1 launched in the much bigger, busier month of November.

Well, in general November is much bigger than August, yes, but it seems like "Wii August" is not very much behind "GameCube November".

Doesn't the X-Box 360 still have a few million more customers in the USA than the Wii? Isn't most of the Wii's userbase still in Japan at this point? American football fans are primarily in... Well, America.

After August, X360 has about 50% more hardware in the US than Wii. However, it sold something like 600% more Madden.

 

[rjcc]

Because I believe some people think the Wii interface is better. Neither you nor I are the arbiters for what determines the superior control method is; the consumers are.

yes, they are, and they chose the xbox 360+ps3 control method by a ratio of 10:1.

 

[AniHawk]

yes, they are, and they chose the xbox 360+ps3 control method by a ratio of 10:1.

Well then they're wrong.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

yes, they are, and they chose the xbox 360+ps3 control method by a ratio of 10:1.

This is getting retarded and circular.

You said "no one would", but clearly some people do. A very small minority, but more than zero. Many of those did so because they probably had no other option, but I'm pretty sure there were some who bought it because they preferred trying a new method of control.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Well, in general November is much bigger than August, yes, but it seems like "Wii August" is not very much behind "GameCube November".

After August, X360 has about 50% more hardware in the US than Wii. However, it sold something like 600% more Madden.

True, I guess that the audience for the Wii just doesn't like Madden.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that unique games that use the Wii-mote in cool ways (Dragon Quest Swords is a good example, so is Zack & Wiki) are what people are looking for. It's definately what I wanted.

I'd like to see a DQS style game with no rails, and no random encounters. I'd like to see RTS and SRPG style games, too. I want more shooters like Corruption, etc.

Perhaps EA needs to think up a new way of playing madden for the Wii. Maybe in the same way that Nintendo had to re-think Zelda for the DS.

In the mean time, most third parties are "doing it wrong."

 

[AniHawk]

True, I guess that the audience for the Wii just doesn't like Madden.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that unique games that use the Wii-mote in cool ways (Dragon Quest Swords is a good example, so is Zack & Wiki) are what people are looking for. It's definately what I wanted.

I'd like to see a DQS style game with no rails, and no random encounters. I'd like to see RTS and SRPG style games, too. I want more shooters like Corruption, etc.

Perhaps EA needs to think up a new way of playing madden for the Wii. Maybe in the same way that Nintendo had to re-think Zelda for the DS.

In the mean time, most third parties are "doing it wrong."

DEFINITELY. WITH AN "I."

 

[Hcoregamer00]

True, I guess that the audience for the Wii just doesn't like Madden.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that unique games that use the Wii-mote in cool ways (Dragon Quest Swords is a good example, so is Zack & Wiki) are what people are looking for. It's definately what I wanted.

I'd like to see a DQS style game with no rails, and no random encounters. I'd like to see RTS and SRPG style games, too. I want more shooters like Corruption, etc.

Perhaps EA needs to think up a new way of playing madden for the Wii. Maybe in the same way that Nintendo had to re-think Zelda for the DS.

In the mean time, most third parties are "doing it wrong."

I second this statement.

3rd parties are using the wrong line of thinking when making Wii games. Making party games and casual games are simple and easy, but they need to extend "thinking outside of the box" for Wii games because those that implement it right will have massive riches. Those that don't might as well stay out of the Wii because half assing it is what we have been seeing so far.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I second this statement.

3rd parties are using the wrong line of thinking when making Wii games. Making party games and casual games are simple and easy, but they need to extend "thinking outside of the box" for Wii games because those that implement it right will have massive riches. Those that don't might as well stay out of the Wii because half assing it is what we have been seeing so far.

Definately.

Though I do think Zack & Wiki will bomb. Mainly because of it's "style."

Will probably be loved by the hardcore crowd, though. Okami suffered the same fate, unfortunately.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

Definately.

Though I do think Zack & Wiki will bomb. Mainly because of it's "style."

Will probably be loved by the hardcore crowd, though. Okami suffered the same fate, unfortunately.

Like third parties, you're definitely doing its wrong.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Like third parties, you're definitely doing its wrong.

I just walked all around New Orleans today. Cut me some slack.

 

[rjcc]

This is getting retarded and circular.

You said "no one would", but clearly some people do. A very small minority, but more than zero. Many of those did so because they probably had no other option, but I'm pretty sure there were some who bought it because they preferred trying a new method of control.

so, you don't like it, and the vast majority of people chose something else, but because someone somewhere bought it, that's somehow relevant.


hey, if 1 out of 11 people like it, it must be good!

 

[AniHawk]

hey, if 1 out of 11 people like it, it must be good!

We call that the Gears of War ratio.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I think Madden Wii sales are something that people should be watching out for. It really shouldn't be that low, with Wii's userbase. It's not like Madden is some hardcore game that really clicks with WHOAMG NEXTGEN.

One would think/hope that Wii was attracting more former PS2 owners than that.



Wait a second here. Doesn't that argument hold somewhat true against Madden every year? On every platform? And what happens, consistently, every year. A Madden tsunami. Why does the Wii userbase get an excuse for not buying now? Naw. The NDF is going to have to come ALOT harder than that to blow this one off.

Just quoting this so some of you guys feel bad about yourselves when you go to sleep tonight. A few years back, people bashed the hell out of EA for not really putting too much into the launch version of Madden. I might be misinterpreting the above quote but we now have a situation, where EA left a few bugs in a version of madden, scrimped on some online components and left out a few features and this guy is arguing that Wii owners should have bought it more.

Next time you get suckered into buying a POS game, blame yourselves. Is this the circle of life, cuz I'm all dizzy. Crap yearly updates have been a huge criticism of the Madden series yet now, new Wii owners are supposed to buy into this crap? Do we want to turn them off of gaming or really bring them into the fold? Wii owners overwhelming bought a $10 game w/ a controller and metroid whereas 360 owners, hardcore gamers with alleged better taste, picked up Madden #3567-B in droves. I guess I should be welcoming the HD era, I guess. For people with finely attuned tastes and requirements for high fidelity images, they certainly are willing in accepting standard definition or redundant definition gameplay.

 

[LukeSmith]

Just quoting this so some of you guys feel bad about yourselves when you go to sleep tonight. A few years back, people bashed the hell out of EA for not really putting too much into the launch version of Madden. I might be misinterpreting the above quote but we now have a situation, where EA left a few bugs in a version of madden, scrimped on some online components and left out a few features and this guy is arguing that Wii owners should have bought it more.

Next time you get suckered into buying a POS game, blame yourselves. Is this the circle of life, cuz I'm all dizzy. Crap yearly updates have been a huge criticism of the Madden series yet now, new Wii owners are supposed to buy into this crap? Do we want to turn them off of gaming or really bring them into the fold? Wii owners overwhelming bought a $10 game w/ a controller and metroid whereas 360 owners, hardcore gamers with alleged better taste, picked up Madden #3567-B in droves. I guess I should be welcoming the HD era, I guess. For people with finely attuned tastes and requirements for high fidelity images, they certainly are willing in accepting standard definition or redundant definition gameplay.

Soccer moms don't like Madden confirmed!

 

[SouthernDragon]

...

Did you read what he wrote?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Wii owners overwhelming bought a $10 game w/ a controller and metroid whereas 360 owners, hardcore gamers with alleged better taste, picked up Madden #3567-B in droves. I guess I should be welcoming the HD era, I guess. For people with finely attuned tastes and requirements for high fidelity images, they certainly are willing in accepting standard definition or redundant definition gameplay.

Wii owners overwhelmingly bought dick, which has been a reoccurring topic throughout this thread. Also Madden is a barometer of gaming, crap or not. Wii owners aren't some elevated, distinguished crowd just because they didn't buy Madden.

Spoiler

They just aren't gamers.

Although really, something like 3% of Wii owners bought Madden. Which isn't as bad as people are trying to claim, especially if Wii is supposed to be the precocious kid brother for multi-console owners.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

so, you don't like it, and the vast majority of people chose something else, but because someone somewhere bought it, that's somehow relevant.


hey, if 1 out of 11 people like it, it must be good!

You asked why someone would buy it and I answered. What point are you trying to convey that I didn't cover when I stated that more people care more about graphics than the Wii's controller?

 

[hafdogg]

Just quoting this so some of you guys feel bad about yourselves when you go to sleep tonight. A few years back, people bashed the hell out of EA for not really putting too much into the launch version of Madden. I might be misinterpreting the above quote but we now have a situation, where EA left a few bugs in a version of madden, scrimped on some online components and left out a few features and this guy is arguing that Wii owners should have bought it more.

Next time you get suckered into buying a POS game, blame yourselves. Is this the circle of life, cuz I'm all dizzy. Crap yearly updates have been a huge criticism of the Madden series yet now, new Wii owners are supposed to buy into this crap? Do we want to turn them off of gaming or really bring them into the fold? Wii owners overwhelming bought a $10 game w/ a controller and metroid whereas 360 owners, hardcore gamers with alleged better taste, picked up Madden #3567-B in droves. I guess I should be welcoming the HD era, I guess. For people with finely attuned tastes and requirements for high fidelity images, they certainly are willing in accepting standard definition or redundant definition gameplay.

Your logic is flawless...Wii owners avoid games like Madden for completely original and well reviewed games like Mario Party 8

 

[rjcc]

You asked why someone would buy it and I answered. What point are you trying to convey that I didn't cover when I stated that more people care more about graphics than the Wii's controller?

because you're too stupid to realize that what you just said is only relevant if you, or any one else, believe that the wii controller makes madden better.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

because you're too stupid to realize that what you just said is only relevant if you, or any one else, believe that the wii controller makes madden better.

I'm going to guess the controller makes Madden better to the people who chose that over the other versions.

But this is retarded. You're just slinging insults and forcing some jumbled argument in which we basically came to the same (obvious) conclusion. You just like to state it in extremes and disregard that someone out there may disagree with you.

 

[rjcc]

I'm going to guess the controller makes Madden better to the people who chose that over the other versions.

But this is retarded. You're just slinging insults and forcing some jumbled argument in which we basically came to the same (obvious) conclusion. You just like to state it in extremes and disregard that someone out there may disagree with you.

but what you said is people who bought it for 360 and ps3 chose graphics over controller.

That's what you said.

which discounts the possibility that maybe they don't like the wii control scheme.

so it is irrelevant.

That, is retarded.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

but what you said is people who bought it for 360 and ps3 chose graphics over controller.

That's what you said.

which discounts the possibility that maybe they don't like the wii control scheme.

so it is irrelevant.

That, is retarded.

I think I'm done with you. You either have selective comprehension, poor reading skills, or are an insufferable clown who's insecure about other peoples' Wiis.

 

[godhandiscen]

I think I'm done with you. You either have selective comprehension, poor reading skills, or are an insufferable clown who's insecure about other peoples' Wiis.

phallic joke wow.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

phallic joke wow.

rjcc should be so lucky that's all FA indulged in. I'm getting frustrated just reading this argument.

 

[KachoMakura]

I'm not sure if this has occured to you guys. But maybe the majority of Wii owners own multiple systems and decided to pick up Madden on one of those? I for one own a 360 and a Wii and so do the majority of my friends. Just a thought.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

phallic joke wow.

Yeah, I kinda cringed just typing it. Hopefully all I'll get in response is something else saying I'm stupid (again) and that the whole "wii" joke is immature and overdone (or something).

The best I can hope for is we agree to put each other on each other's ignore lists. I've done my part.

 

[rjcc]

I'm not sure if this has occured to you guys. But maybe the majority of Wii owners own multiple systems and decided to pick up Madden on one of those? I for one own a 360 and a Wii and so do the majority of my friends. Just a thought.

oh, so you chose graphics over controller?

 

[rjcc]

I think I'm done with you. You either have selective comprehension, poor reading skills, or are an insufferable clown who's insecure about other peoples' Wiis.

lol. if "reading your entire post" is "selective", then yes, my reading comprehension is very selective.

 

[Evlar]

I'd say Madden players are likely pretty resistant to change, as a group. They buy the same damn game, year after year, at full price. They appear to be largely uninterested in revamping the gameplay mechanics: they just want their football with the latest rosters and, these days, the ability to play with all their buddies who also bought the roster updates. They are, in their way, just as hardcore as the most sensitive RPG or strategy fans, the ones who really just want to keep playing the same game endlessly with occasionally refreshed storylines or campaigns. This does not strike me as a demographic that is particularly receptive to big changes to the controls. They certainly haven't been thrilled about making their Madden portable, either.

I think 360 will be the dominant Madden console for the rest of this gen, PS3 second and Wii third. And I think it will have less of an impact on the development of other games and the sales of the consoles than some of you want to believe. Outside of the US and Canada it will continue to have no impact whatsoever.

 

[Fredescu]

If it helps, and I hope it doesn't, I want the 360 and the Wii versions of FIFA 08.

 

[Jokeropia]

Wii owners overwhelmingly bought dick, which has been a reoccurring topic throughout this thread.

What the hell are you talking about? Wii has great software sales and had more games in the console top 20 this NPD than any other system.

You're trying to imply that buying Madden is a prerequisite for being a gamer which is so incredibly inane that I don't know what to say.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

You're trying to imply that buying Madden is a prerequisite for being a gamer which is so incredibly inane that I don't know what to say.

Exactly. We spent the last 16 years bashing Madden about their yearly roster updates but Wii owners get shit because they brought something with Mario in it's title. The only difference is Wii owners have better taste.

 

[bc226]

For all those going on about Madden Wii perhaps your over looking the most simple fact we do not care for the game the only next gen or current gen system i own is the Wii and i have never cared for any kind of sports games except racing.

I have been a gamer sense the Sears Telestar system so i have almost 35 plus years so that pretty much makes me one of those hardcore gamers yet i do not care at all about HD or Blu-ray, do not care about changing discs and i am disabled.

So i really do not see what Madden sales have to do with anything if your really want to compare look at the biggest selling system the PS2 and see just how low the numbers are yet no one is talking about that. Maybe us Wii owners are just smarter then some. And we like paying and buying games that are made with effort and offer a good time.

 

[JoeyJojoShabadoo]

yearly updates have been a huge criticism of the Madden series yet now, new Wii owners are supposed to buy into this crap?

Mario Party 8...9...10....11

 

[speedpop]

Mario Party 8...9...10....11

I did the smart thing (depending on who you ask) and stopped after #2.

 

[mepaco]

Mario Party 8...9...10....11

Well, we can't all have good taste. I actually think the next Wii Mario Party won't see the kind of sales we are seeing for 8. It is the first one for the Wii so it is bound to get more sales. I could be way off though.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

...

Did you read what he wrote?

The unbolded portion is something I said, for some reason.

because you're too stupid to realize that what you just said is only relevant if you, or any one else, believe that the wii controller makes madden better.

Are you retarded? He already established this.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'd say Madden players are likely pretty resistant to change, as a group. They buy the same damn game, year after year, at full price. They appear to be largely uninterested in revamping the gameplay mechanics: they just want their football with the latest rosters and, these days, the ability to play with all their buddies who also bought the roster updates. They are, in their way, just as hardcore as the most sensitive RPG or strategy fans, the ones who really just want to keep playing the same game endlessly with occasionally refreshed storylines or campaigns. This does not strike me as a demographic that is particularly receptive to big changes to the controls. They certainly haven't been thrilled about making their Madden portable, either.

I think 360 will be the dominant Madden console for the rest of this gen, PS3 second and Wii third. And I think it will have less of an impact on the development of other games and the sales of the consoles than some of you want to believe. Outside of the US and Canada it will continue to have no impact whatsoever.

You just presented a very convincing argument for why every major franchise that was popular last generation should stay on PS3/PC/360. Funny how that works out.

And Madden's sales will have a direct impact on where EA puts its games this generation, that much is obvious. If your company's bread and butter is sports, racers, and shooters, you're going to make games for platforms where those games sell.

I don't understand Wii owners indignation at 3rd parties. To scream "we want games" and then scream "but not the ones you usually make, I don't really like those", is baffling.

 

[RiskyChris]

lol. if "reading your entire post" is "selective", then yes, my reading comprehension is very selective.

Spectating your argument is really something else. Please don't stop.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

You just presented a very convincing argument for why every major franchise that was popular last generation should stay on PS3/PC/360. Funny how that works out.

And Madden's sales will have a direct impact on where EA puts its games this generation, that much is obvious. If your company's bread and butter is sports, racers, and shooters, you're going to make games for platforms where those games sell.

I don't understand Wii owners indignation at 3rd parties. To scream "we want games" and then scream "but not the ones you usually make, I don't really like those", is baffling.

Why? Like most Wii owners here, I have a 360. I can get those games on there.

Remember how exciting the Wii remote was when we were imagining the possibilities 2 years ago? Remember the disappointment at Zelda involving nothing more than simple slashes and pointing?

I want to tap into new possibilities with the Wii Remote, or at least get fully realized games (Metroid Prime 3). Why is that baffling? Who wants ports with Wii controls added, especially when it's not usually done with care?

 

[bc226]

Has a Wii only owner you give me games that use the Wii control the right way and not just added on and guess what i will buy your game one reason Prime 3 is so good and RE4 is they took the time to do the game right. Yes we want games but not shovelware not games that just try to add the control to get sales.

Give us games that work, that you use the Wii control right and we will buy.

 

[felipeko]

You know what i think we are all missing here?

You just presented a very convincing argument for why every major franchise that was popular last generation should stay on PS3/PC/360. Funny how that works out.

This is probably true. But the funny thing, really, is that games that were important/popular last generation probably won't be as much this gen. It happens all generations, and this one shouldn't be different.

Madden maybe was a very important game, but this gen it may or may not be. If EA keeps failing to deliver on Wii, what may happen is that it will remain strong on HD consoles, but its power will dwarf on Wii.

And if Wii keeps selling more than both HD consoles togheter, we may see what happening to Madden what happened to Mario on N64, it will still keep selling a lot, being very popular, but not that important, most people will not care if they can't play on their console of choice. They will just not play.

And that will happen with a lot of franchises this gen (as always happened), most of them, not on the leader console, will keep having their fanbase buying, but pretty much it.

And for Wii, we will probably see a lot of new franchises becoming strong, like we see with Wii **** games.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

You know what i think we are all missing here?


This is probably true. But the funny thing, really, is that games that were important/popular last generation probably won't be as much this gen. It happens all generations, and this one shouldn't be different.

Madden maybe was a very important game, but this gen it may or may not be. If EA keeps failing to deliver on Wii, what may happen is that it will remain strong on HD consoles, but its power will dwarf on Wii.

And if Wii keeps selling more than both HD consoles togheter, we may see what happening to Madden what happened to Mario on N64, it will still keep selling a lot, being very popular, but not that important, most people will not care if they can't play on their console of choice. They will just not play.

And that will happen with a lot of franchises this gen (as always happened), most of them, not on the leader console, will keep having their fanbase buying, but pretty much it.

And for Wii, we will probably see a lot of new franchises becoming strong, like we see with Wii **** games.

So a game's sales are only important if they are on the Wii? And did you just say Mario 64 wasn't important?

And the 360 hasn't had a lot of franchises become big this generation?

I like the Wii and all, but I can't really believe what you're saying.

 

[felipeko]

So a game's sales are only important if they are on the Wii? And did you just say Mario 64 wasn't important?

And the 360 hasn't had a lot of franchises become big this generation?

I like the Wii and all, but I can't really believe what you're saying.

No, you misunderstood what i said...
Games sales are always important, but if you only sell to the same fanbase over and over again, you'll lose importance to the rest of market. And that's what usually happens when you have a game not on the leader console, it's harder to reach a broader audience.

And i said they will lose importance, not become irrelevant. Mario 64 lost importance over SMW.

And what franchise on the X360 that become big?
I only can think of Gears.. Most others didn't become all that big. I mean, Mario Party outsell most of the games (if not all) not named Gears (or soon Halo3).


Just to sum up, i can't see a game on the X360 become as big/important/popular as Wii Sports (or soon Wii Fit), or GTA last gen.
Halo will keep being fucking big and strong, but will never reach GTA, Wii Sports status.
And i can't see Madden becoming bigger without Wii. But i can see it becoming a monster with it, if EA delivers.