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[markatisu]

You are basing this off music games + Lego + Shaun White/Sonic?

You forgot Force Unleashed which was a major AAA HD project and basically got the PS2/PSP port treatment on Wii

 

[Chumly]

The sad part of this whole discussion is, that NPD numbers are estimates, that until quarterly financial reports come out, no one knows the truth, (even then shipped or sold, hmph, who knows!!)

I mean according to the intronet encyclopedia the music industry figured this out 18 yrs. ago:

Nielsen SoundScan began tracking sales data for Nielsen on March 1, 1991.[citation needed] The May 25 issue of Billboard published Billboard 200 and Country Music charts based on SoundScan "piece count data,"[1][2] and the first Hot 100 chart to debut with the system was released on November 30, 1991. Previously, Billboard tracked sales by calling stores across the U.S. and asking about sales - a method that was inherently error-prone and open to outright fraud.

Could the same error prone fraud be prevalent in our current method? Probably.

It is hard to say how much a game sold until a company gets back unsold copies. which could be years with the current method.

It is laughable that a so-called 'high-tech' industry relies on estimates

Honestly WTF are you talking about. No offense but relating sales tracking in 2009 to back to 1991 is the single dumbest thing Ive read of GAF today.

I could go on and on but ill put it simple for you. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and all of the game publishers pay NPD THOUSANDS of dollars to get their data. Because guess what? It matches their data!!!! They then procede to quote NPD every month.

 

[cw_sasuke]

You are basing this off music games + Lego + Shaun White/Sonic?

So we can`t count Musicgames, Sportgames, Nintendo-Games, Games with Mascots like Sony, Games based on popular IPs like Lego/Star Wars.


Poor Wii, always those exception :lol

 

[Log4Girlz]

Yeouch yeah some of those games bombed nasty...and they cost a pretty penny to make. This tells me WiiHD in any form is going to have a shit ton of ports and third party support.

 

[segarr]

The Darkness - 284k (360), 133k (PS3)

Oh, that's why there's no Darkness 2 :-(

 

[chuckddd]

You are basing this off music games + Lego + Shaun White/Sonic?

And another casual game, Call of Duty.

 

[bucklam66]

Honestly WTF are you talking about. No offense but relating sales tracking in 2009 to back to 1991 is the single dumbest thing Ive read of GAF today.

I could go on and on but ill put it simple for you. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and all of the game publishers pay NPD THOUSANDS of dollars to get their data. Because guess what? It matches their data!!!! They then procede to quote NPD every month.

Okay, where are the weekly sales charts? Why is the gaming industry this far behind?


My point is that the music industry has had units sold every week since 1991. The gaming industry leaks monthly sales 2-3 weeks after the month has ended, why? I mean Microsoft, the day after Halo 2,3 says x million copies sold? Why are they paying NPD for this? That is my main gripe with the system. It has nothing to do with what system or what game, just why the delay? Do they pay NPD like record labels used to pay radio stations and billboard to chart music, that is all i am questioning.

 

[Alcibiades]

You are basing this off music games + Lego + Shaun White/Sonic?

I don't know if this is serious or a parody post making comment on the fact that one-by-one certain genres/game-types no longer "counted" in Japanese sales threads as "legitimate" games as they started selling well on Wii to the point where even long-established genres and franchises (like fighting, music, etc...) were being weeded out.

:lol

 

[Son of Godzilla]

So we can`t count Musicgames, Sportgames, Nintendo-Games, Games with Mascots like Sony, Games based on popular IPs like Lego/Star Wars.


Poor Wii, always those exception :lol

Don't be a douche. Generalizations need to be well-founded. If you are going to make the point that devs are tards for not making Wii versions, you shouldn't be using the few times they were confident enough to make them as proof.

Okay, where are the weekly sales charts? Why is the gaming industry this far behind?

It's most likely on purpose.

 

[EDarkness]

Don't be a douche. Generalizations need to be well-founded. If you are going to make the point that devs are tards for not making Wii versions, you shouldn't be using the few times they were confident enough to make them as proof.

I want to know what's wrong with Sonic, Shawn White, music games, Lego games, etc....

 

[kamikaze]

it's too bad that the npd data for publisher's 2008 sales by platform hasn't been release...that'd be sure to stir up the sales-age chat for awhile.

 

[Htown]

You are basing this off music games + Lego + Shaun White/Sonic?

And Tiger Woods. And Force Unleashed.

In other words, it's based off of all the games that atually HAVE Wii versions. Like I said before...

With only one exception, multiplatform games on the list that had versions on all current-gen systems sold better on Wii than on PS3.

The only exception is Rock Band 2, which was released two months after the PS3 version and was still within 30k.

In 7 out of 10 instances on the list, the Wii version outsold the 360 version as well.

In 6 of those instances, the Wii version sold more than (or was tied with) the 360 and PS3 versions COMBINED.

Besides, you just listed like five different things, one of which is a new game IP. How many "exceptions that somehow don't count" do there have to be before the exception becomes the rule?

 

[markatisu]

I want to know what's wrong with Sonic, Shawn White, music games, Lego games, etc....

They are apparently genres the Wii does well (Music games, Kids games, and sports which utilize the system), so its not a real indication of how good a third party can do compared to the HD Twins...I guess

But I guess for 3rd parties its easier to spend a shit ton of money and end up with a COMBINED sell of 500k or less across two systems (Dead Space, Prince of Persia, Mirrors Edge) then it is to devote any sort of money to the Wii

 

[FateBreaker]

NUMBERS!!! OH MY GOD, NUMBERS!! *saves, saves again* Ahh...reminds me of the ol' GAF days.

So let's see: LO is the best selling JRPG. Vesperia, TLR, and IU are all kind of around the same number - which is an okay number, but, especially Vesperia, shoulld be higher.

 

[Alcibiades]

They are apparently genres the Wii does well (Music games, Kids games, and sports which utilize the system), so its not a real indication of how good a third party can do compared to the HD Twins...I guess

as opposed to 3rd-person action (No More Heroes, Force Unleashed), survival horror (RE4), 1st person shooters (COD3/World at War, Red Steel), which have obviously failed...

 

[Accident]

PS2
Odin Sphere - 149k
Persona 4 - 123k

PS3
Valkyria Chronicles - 74k
Folklore - 109k

360
Tales of Vesperia - 107k
Lost Odyssey - 348k
Infinite Undiscovery - 110k
Blue Dragon - 189k
The Last Remnant 118k


Eternal Sonata - 98k (360), 33k (PS3)

So the problem with some jRPG bombing might be the genre and not the platform?

 

[AniHawk]

So the problem with some jRPG bombing might be the genre and not the platform?

I'd say Odin Sphere and Persona 4 did really well. The ones that had to be built from the ground up for expensive machines sold poorly.

 

[EDarkness]

What surprises me is:

Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)

With all the hoopla about the 360/PS3 version, in the end, the best selling version turned out to the be the Wii one.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Besides, you just listed like five different things, one of which is a new game IP. How many "exceptions that somehow don't count" do there have to be before the exception becomes the rule?

They aren't different things though. They are all heavily branded games. "Safe" games. They don't prove it's worth experimenting on the Wii. Whether or not NMH and such do that is different altogether.

Ayways, if you want to make the argument that it's worth the resources for devs to make more Wii versions you can't use games that devs thought were worth the resources to make Wii versions. You are completely beholden to the devs' judgement that way.

I'd say Odin Sphere and Persona 4 did really well. The ones that had to be built from the ground up for expensive machines sold poorly.

These things really can't have that high of budgets. "Lusch HD landscapes and character models" can't be that costly when you have such terrible animation.

 

[markatisu]

What surprises me is:

Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)

With all the hoopla about the 360/PS3 version, in the end, the best selling version turned out to the be the Wii one.

Sonic has always sold best on Wii, its why Sonic and the Secret Rings led to Sonic and the Black Knight, and why Sonic is in the Olympics with Mario.

I myself think its funny as hell that The Force Unleashed sold 2nd best on Wii and only slightly behind the 360 version....especially with the massive amount of difference between the two versions in the graphics and features dept

 

[EDarkness]

They aren't different things though. They are all heavily branded games. "Safe" games. They don't prove it's worth experimenting on the Wii. Whether or not NMH and such do that is different altogether.

Ayways, if you want to make the argument that it's worth the resources for devs to make more Wii versions you can't use games that devs thought were worth the resources to make Wii versions. You are completely beholden to the devs' judgement that way.

I'm still waiting on the big budget Wii games. There have been some individual games that are interesting, but nothing on the same level as Street Fighter IV, GTA IV, etc. When we get those and they bomb, then I can see what you mean.

Even so, what this list shows me is that not doing a Wii version of a multiplatform games is just leaving money on the table.

 

[DarkMehm]

So, Star Wars Force Unleashed not a stuff job confirmed? 2,7m in the US alone, others should be over 2m and with Canada it's at least at 5m.

 

[AniHawk]

I myself think its funny as hell that The Force Unleashed sold 2nd best on Wii and only slightly behind the 360 version....especially with the massive amount of difference between the two versions in the graphics and features dept

First month sales:

Sept 08 NPD:
1. Star Wars Force Unleashed (360): 610k
5. Star Wars Force Unleashed (PS3): 325k
9. Star Wars Force Unleashed (Wii): 223k

That's some pretty crazy legs.

 

[Sean]

What surprises me is:

Sonic Unleashed - 113k (360), 69k (PS3), 315k (Wii)

With all the hoopla about the 360/PS3 version, in the end, the best selling version turned out to the be the Wii one.

That's not too surprising, the Sonic games sold best on GameCube too IIRC (they were million sellers).

 

[EDarkness]

Sonic has always sold best on Wii, its why Sonic and the Secret Rings led to Sonic and the Black Knight, and why Sonic is in the Olympics with Mario.

But they didn't even have the Wii version at TGS last year. They were pimpin' the 360/PS3 versions pretty hard. That's obviously where all of the effort was. Seems like the Wii version was just for insurance, and seems like they needed it.

I myself think its funny as hell that The Force Unleashed sold 2nd best on Wii and only slightly behind the 360 version....especially with the massive amount of difference between the two versions in the graphics and features dept

With the numbers that Anihawk posted, it's crazy how much the Wii version sold after the fact. Heh, Lucasarts was singing all the way to the bank on that one. I bet they're glad they made the Wii version in the end. Heh, heh.

 

[markatisu]

First month sales:

Sept 08 NPD:
1. Star Wars Force Unleashed (360): 610k
5. Star Wars Force Unleashed (PS3): 325k
9. Star Wars Force Unleashed (Wii): 223k

That's some pretty crazy legs.

Makes sense though since we know that in the holidays the cut off for the Wii Top 10 was near 366k

So we are looking at about 400k in sales over the span of 3 months would be an avg of 133k a month, with the bulk of it most likely coming at Christmas

 

[A Black Falcon]

Ultimate Shooting Collection - 1,126

What... huh? Didn't this game come out in February this year? How could it have 1,126 copies sold as of Jan. 1, over a month before its release? Preorders? Store orders? Error?

 

[AniHawk]

Makes sense though since we know that in the holidays the cut off for the Wii Top 10 was near 366k

So we are looking at about 400k in sales over the span of 3 months would be an avg of 133k a month, with the bulk of it most likely coming at Christmas

It's not enough to form a pattern, but it matches what some other games have done. PS360 games have big first months and tend to die afterwards (although the big first months are usually BIG), whereas Wii games sell moderately at first and continue to sell at around that level for a while. This is one of those reasons why shouting "ATTACH RATE" doesn't really work.

 

[markatisu]

What... huh? Didn't this game come out in February this year? How could it have 1,126 copies sold as of Jan. 1, over a month before its release? Preorders? Store orders? Error?

its the UFO interactive game from Sept 2008, it was delayed but it had been done since last year. It could have shipped early to some retailers (hence the super low number)

It was $30 budget bin game

 

[Alcibiades]

its the UFO interactive game from Sept 2008, it was delayed but it had been done since last year. It could have shipped early to some retailers (hence the super low number)

It was $30 budget bin game

that doesn't make sense though... amazon.com (and others) seem to have started selling the game around Jan. 20th if their web sites are accurate...

who would ship a game 3 weeks early?

 

[A Black Falcon]

No its the UFO interactive game from Sept 2008, it was delayed but it had been done since last year. It could have shipped early to some retailers (hence the super low number)

It was $30 budget bin game

That's the game I was talking about. I thought it came out this year in the US, and GameFAQs agreed... http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/data/944449.html release date 2/02/09

The two reviews on GameRankings, from IGN and CheatCodeCentral, are from late January. Reviews like IGN's would usually be at or around release. Amazon says it was released on Jan. 20, 2009. There's a GAF thread (the only one with the game name in the title) from February. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351685

I know it was repeatedly delayed, and was quietly released in very small numbers, but nothing I've seen suggests it came out in the US last year... in Japan, yes, but not here.

 

[AniHawk]

These things really can't have that high of budgets. "Lusch HD landscapes and character models" can't be that costly when you have such terrible animation.

Yeah, but only a couple hundred thousand worldwide was enough to kill Skies of Arcadia as a series. I can't imagine it could be doing wonders for these bombs.

 

[markatisu]

that doesn't make sense though... amazon.com (and others) seem to have started selling the game around Jan. 20th if their web sites are accurate...

who would ship a game 3 weeks early?

Would that not explain that fact 1000 sales were registered

There was a similar issue with the drum game Konami had made, it registered with NPD as something like 100 copies sold because it was released early by mistake

This is likely the same deal

 

[A Black Falcon]

Would that not explain that fact 1000 sales were registered

There was a similar issue with the drum game Konami had made, it registered with NPD as something like 100 copies sold because it was released early by mistake

This is likely the same deal

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=22468&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

People on shmups.com's forum seem to have started finding it at about the date Amazon (and NCSX, evidently) say, Jan. 19-20. Either something is wrong here, like you suggest, or this data is from later in January than January 1st.

 

[markatisu]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=22468&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

People on shmups.com's forum seem to have started finding it at about the date Amazon (and NCSX, evidently) say, Jan. 19-20. Either something is wrong here, like you suggest, or this data is from later in January than January 1st.

It could be data from later in Jan but for certain games it does not include the Jan NPD numbers or else GHWT would be higher as would Halo 3

 

[Accident]

Left 4 Dead sold 1284K including January so this number must include january NPD.

 

[Accident]

It could be data from later in Jan but for certain games it does not include the Jan NPD numbers or else GHWT would be higher as would Halo 3

Why would Halo 3 be higher? 4.66m (regular), 633k (CE), 479k (LE) = 5.772M
If it sold around 90k in February it should be rounded to 5.9M

 

[A Black Falcon]

Left 4 Dead sold 1284K including January so this number must include january NPD.

Why would Halo 3 be higher? 4.66m (regular), 633k (CE), 479k (LE) = 5.772M
If it sold around 90k in February it should be rounded to 5.9M

That would explain it then, this data is for through the end of January, not just to the beginning.

 

[DarkMehm]

Fighters seem to do really well on the PS3. Either the userbases are somewhat different or it is purely because of the better d-pad.

 

[mujun]

I just don't get this really I don't, MS2 is such a good game and improves upon the original in leaps and bounds, when I see figures like this I just want to ring PS3 users around the neck, their purchasing habits seem so strange.

im guessing its because the first was way too unforgiving and that narrowed down the potential number of buyers for the 2nd. increased install base notwithstanding (possibly cancelled out by the smaller? amount of advertising).

 

[mujun]

So the problem with some jRPG bombing might be the genre and not the platform?

doesnt surprise me, jrpgs seem to be treading the same territory they have for the last 5 or 10 years whilst pretty much every other type of game has progressed or evolved in some way.

a drop off in interest in japanese culture in western countries might also have something to do with it.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Wow. Look at Uncharted! Over 500k, and never in NPD to 10. Probably has to do with the excellent word of mouth. Same for Heavenly Sword, that did okay too.

 

[BishopLamont]

Don't be a douche. Generalizations need to be well-founded. If you are going to make the point that devs are tards for not making Wii versions, you shouldn't be using the few times they were confident enough to make them as proof.

It's most likely on purpose.

Most of the games that have Wii versions have sold well, sometimes on par, sometimes even combined verse the HD versions. How can you not make the assumption that third party are leaving money on the table based on that? I don't get how you can not be impressed by Wii's multiplatform software numbers, considering few of the games have been served with much effort. It seems like it doesn't matter how well the Wii does, there's always exceptions that make the Wii not worthwhile, when all that matters to a publisher is how much a Wii version sells.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Actually guys, I think something is up with the numbers... Do we all remember when Gamasutra gave us LTD NPD numbers of a few games back in mid-January like Resistance 2, LBP, PoP and such? Well, I was interested in seekn what LBP had sold in Jan, and see if we couldn't get a clearer view of what 11-20 sold on the top 20.

Onto my point, These numbers are LTD thru Jan right? Cause the GamasutrA article has Dec LTD as 611k for LBP and 598k for Resistance 2. And these Jan LTD NPD numbers have them at 670k and 640k respectively. So with that math, LBP sold 59k in Feb and Resistance 2 sold 42k. But, Resistance 2 is on PS3 top 10 while LBP isn't. I'm sure my math could be off, but I think either the numbers are off, or they can be Fen LTD?

Http://www.gamasutra.com/news/originals/?story=21937

 

[Jocchan]

If these numbers are indeed legit, they seem to validate another source of NPD LTDs I stumbled upon some time ago on the Interwebs (the numbers seem to match).
I'll try to post the missing figures later (I can't now), the only one I remember that wasn't already posted was Quantum of Solace Wii outselling all the other SKUs.

 

[farnham]

I wonder whether struggling 3rd parties are looking back and regretting to setting up shop on Wii with comparable budgets to the other systems when looking at these numbers:

Assassin’s Creed - 2.3m (360), 1.15m (PS3)
Bioshock - 998k (360), 106k (PS3)
The Bourne Conspiracy - 103k (360), 83k (PS3)
Burnout Paradise - 371k (360) 306k (PS3)
Civilization Revolution - 96k (DS), 254k (360), 149k (PS3)
The Darkness - 284k (360), 133k (PS3)
Dark Sector - 139k (360), 97k (PS3)
Dead Space - 337k (360), 212k (PS3)
Dynasty Warriors 6 - 113k (360), 103k (PS3), 26k (PS2)
Eternal Sonata - 98k (360), 33k (PS3)
Fallout 3 - 1.14m (360), 452k (PS3)
Fight Night 3 - 1.19M (360) 526k (PS3)


These are mostly solid (some great!) sales, but if high-budget, near-identical ports were made we might be seeing the COD3 phenomenon where a Wii version sold comparable to the PS3 version and not so many studio shutdowns would be happening. I'm sure 3rd parties would not have minded the revenue.

Hopefully World at War was just the beginning and not the end of getting decent, if not spectacular, ports of blockbuster games from 360/PS3 on Wii from now on.

Of course keeping in mind these numbers might be BS.

fight night 3 and civ rev seems to be the biggest opportunity lost here

fight night 3 is basically fight night 2 with more bells and whistles (modified engine.. says david ellis) so why not make a graphically inferior verison with wii boxing controlls (i know wii boxing is one of the most popular games out of wii sports)
civ rev would have been great with IR and all..

im sure EA and Faraxis would have sold quite a good number if they would have considered the Wii

 

[[Nintex]]

Christmas comes early this year

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Most of the games that have Wii versions have sold well, sometimes on par, sometimes even combined verse the HD versions. How can you not make the assumption that third party are leaving money on the table based on that? I don't get how you can not be impressed by Wii's multiplatform software numbers, considering few of the games have been served with much effort. It seems like it doesn't matter how well the Wii does, there's always exceptions that make the Wii not worthwhile, when all that matters to a publisher is how much a Wii version sells.

Man, I don't know if the continual internet abuse has gotten to some people or what, but of course high profile software performs competitively on the Wii. It's the fucking market leader for crissakes. No duh not making a Wii version is "leaving money on the table". That's an incredibly empty phrase. The issue is mostly about the risk assessment.

And I agree with the above, Civ Rev is probably the most glaring game on that list.

 

[kkg1701]

Actually guys, I think something is up with the numbers... Do we all remember when Gamasutra gave us LTD NPD numbers of a few games back in mid-January like Resistance 2, LBP, PoP and such? Well, I was interested in seekn what LBP had sold in Jan, and see if we couldn't get a clearer view of what 11-20 sold on the top 20.

Onto my point, These numbers are LTD thru Jan right? Cause the GamasutrA article has Dec LTD as 611k for LBP and 598k for Resistance 2. And these Jan LTD NPD numbers have them at 670k and 640k respectively. So with that math, LBP sold 59k in Feb and Resistance 2 sold 42k. But, Resistance 2 is on PS3 top 10 while LBP isn't. I'm sure my math could be off, but I think either the numbers are off, or they can be Fen LTD?

Http://www.gamasutra.com/news/originals/?story=21937

Unless these lists are wrong LBP is at 3 while Resistance 2 is at 9 for Jan 09 NPD period.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14764462&postcount=1174


KK

 

[Neomoto]

So we can`t count Musicgames, Sportgames, Nintendo-Games, Games with Mascots like Sony, Games based on popular IPs like Lego/Star Wars.


Poor Wii, always those exception :lol

Well there's always Ubiso.. shit.

With only one exception, multiplatform games on the list that had versions on all current-gen systems sold better on Wii than on PS3.

The only exception is Rock Band 2, which was released two months after the PS3 version and was still within 30k.

In 7 out of 10 instances on the list, the Wii version outsold the 360 version as well.

In 6 of those instances, the Wii version sold more than (or was tied with) the 360 and PS3 versions COMBINED.

I think the lesson we can take from this is that the Wii sells no games, and it's not worth making a Wii version of your multiplatform title.

The more actual data comes out, the more it shows the Wii is selling a great deal of software. Even for third parties that actually bothered to release a Wii version. Not to mention the insane first party sales.

PS3 software in general seems kinda low with the more high profile games, some PSP games doing better then I thought. Latest Rare games bombed hard (VP 2, Banjo).