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[HK-47]

What all these "for the good of the industry, good games shouldn't bomb" people need to realize that good games almost never bomb... on the Xbox 360. Does anyone honestly believe that Uncharted wouldn't hit a million if it was on Xbox 360? I mean, they bought PREY!

Good games bomb even on the 360. The demograph for games is probably smaller than you think, just that the demograph till now has been getting games that fit it. I'd like to see a good platformer get thrown onto that system >_>

Oh and I dont think 360 will be all that kind to JRPGs either.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Bannings across the board for many including PhoenixDown.

I don't think that guy has ever been right about anything.

 

[BigDug13]

I think the community of Xbox Live forces others to purchase a 360 instead of a PS3 too. Say you're at work and some friends are talking about some amazing battles on CoD4. Well based on sales numbers, they're probably talking about the Xbox360 version. When you decide to buy your next console, are you going to opt for the PS3 which none of your friends are playing on, or the 360?

That sort of cycle will continue IMO in NA. The online community will continue to push the 360 sales above the PS3 sales, no matter how many record numbers price drops they go through.

 

[CassSept]

Wii 981K
Nintendo DS 1.53 million

WOW
1.53 mln DS? Almost a million for Wii? And PS3 under PS2?
What times has it become for us to live in. I remember being in minority as fanboy of doomed Nintendo. Good times.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Good games bomb even on the 360. The demograph for games is probably smaller than you think, just that the demograph till now has been getting games that fit it. I'd like to see a good platformer get thrown onto that system >_>

Oh and I dont think 360 will be all that kind to JRPGs either.

Fixed right?

I don't think anyone could argue that the 360 has been very good to Western RPGs (Oblivion, Two Worlds, now Mass Effect). Fallout 3, Fable 2, and even Too Human should do good business.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

There is nothing Sony can really do to pick up momentum. They fucked up with their $600 price tag and their arrogance that people will line up in droves to get it just 'cuz its Sony. It was the same arrogance Nintendo had with their Nintendo 64. Now every move they make seems like a panic move to desperately push some more units off the shelves.

 

[HK-47]

They can still pull the "Sony Family" trick, including TVs, Vaios, just everything they got...

You dont spin finacial reports

 

[HK-47]

Fixed right?

I don't think anyone could argue that the 360 has been very good to Western RPGs (Oblivion, Two Worlds, now Mass Effect). Fallout 3, Fable 2, and even Too Human should do good business.

Yes correct. I dont think 360 is gonna be great for JRPGs. WRPGs, if they are of good quality and sound marketing like ME and Oblivion, should turn out fine though.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Fixed right?

I don't think anyone could argue that the 360 has been very good to Western RPGs (Oblivion, Two Worlds, now Mass Effect). Fallout 3, Fable 2, and even Too Human should do good business.

JRPGs could do well too if they promote them right. Did Blue Dragon got any promotion in the west?

 

[Raist]

Holy shit @ DS numbers.

I wonder tho. It sells 1.5M units, and there's still not a single DS game in the top sales ? wtf.

 

[Kestastrophe]

I'd like to see a good platformer get thrown onto that system >_>

Does Assassin's Creed count? Technically, isn't Super Mario Galaxy the only pure platformer released this gen?

 

[HK-47]

JRPGs could do well too if they promote them right. Did Blue Dragon got any promotion in the west?

Blue Dragon wasnt gonna succeed in the west even if it got promotion, being modelled on DQ style play. The only JRPGs that really sell in the west are FF, KH, Pokemon, and Mario RPGs, and maybe Golden Sun on the GBA...and 360 has access to none of those. They would have to do it through new IPs, which will be very tough.

 

[lexi]

Holy shit @ DS numbers.

I wonder tho. It sells 1.5M units, and there's still not a single DS game in the top sales ? wtf.

Yeah, that kind of doesn't make any sense. Perhaps people are buying games on such a vast variety that it's really dispersed.

Or maybe they bought an R4 along with their DS.

 

[HK-47]

Does Assassin's Creed count? Technically, isn't Super Mario Galaxy the only pure platformer released this gen?

I think AC is more a sandbox adventure game than a platformer...I mean something in the vein of Ratchet, SMG or LBP. Something with a cute exterior.

 

[HK-47]

Yeah, that kind of doesn't make any sense. Perhaps people are buying games on such a vast variety that it's really dispersed.

Or maybe they bought an R4 along with their DS.

More the former than the latter. The Zelda and Nintendogs bundles were very hot and Pokemon is split in the NPD. Those game are just below the surface. Its a shame we cant get a top 50 like Japan even. Its hard to get a picture of the market when you are only looking at the top sellers and some new releases.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

Yeah, that kind of doesn't make any sense. Perhaps people are buying games on such a vast variety that it's really dispersed.

close enough. Just remember what happened with the PS2,

 

[coralfangs]

There isn't anything horribly wrong for Sony with PS2 still selling so well. Don't forget that there are still platinum games coming out for the console and the 40gb ps3 does not have BC. Games such as GHIII don'trequire better graphics for full enjoyment.

Kudos to Nintendo, but let's see if they can still keep it up or the trend is just a fade

PS: let's not forget that many xbox360 users have multiple 360s because many are buying the arcade/core for backups. So MS shouldn't be too proud for their numbers

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Blue Dragon wasnt gonna succeed in the west even if it got promotion, being modelled on DQ style play. The only JRPGs that really sell in the west are FF, Pokemon, and Mario RPGs, and maybe Golden Sun on the GBA...and 360 has access to none of those. They would have to do it through new IPs, which will be very tough.

I never intended to compare BD with FF or Pokemon, I'm just saying it could do better (but not "FF better") if they promote it a little bit more, the FF success didn't just came out of nowhere, the advertising was there, and it was huge...

 

[RJT]

You dont spin finacial reports

Yes, you do. Ever heard of Enron? WorldCom?

For instance, "Underreporting ‘line costs’ by capitalizing these costs on the balance sheet rather than properly expensing them" (from wikipedia WorldCom scandal page).

Like I said, no way any responsible auditor would allow 10 year writeoffs.

 

[Toy Soldier]

Perhaps people are buying games on such a vast variety that it's really dispersed.

Definitely that. There are so many various killer-apps, for every buyer.

 

[TheKurgan]

It's a new and unknown IP to the mass market and probably to the most PS3 owners, Sony just failed at promoting it right...

That could be the problem - I can't say I have seen a bunch of Uncharted ads. Still when the 360 was starting out new IP like Dead Rising, Lost Planet, Crackdown, etc... Seemed like the 360 had a 500K+ seller every couple of months through 06.

 

[HK-47]

Yes, you do. Ever heard of Enron? WorldCom?

For instance, "Underreporting ‘line costs’ by capitalizing these costs on the balance sheet rather than properly expensing them.

And what happened to those companies. Sony isnt gonna spin their finacials, especially with Stringer at the helm and pretty much every other division of Sony doing great.

 

[Kestastrophe]

I think AC is more a sandbox adventure game than a platformer...I mean something in the vein of Ratchet, SMG or LBP. Something with a cute exterior.

I would not necessarily call Ratchet a platformer. The series has evolved into much more of a third person shooter (with RPG elements), as opposed to platformer. I guess if you're defining a platformer by the amount of running and jumping that it requires, then I would classify AC as a platformer before I called Ratchet one. Just my 2 cents

 

[HK-47]

I never intended to compare BD with FF or Pokemon, I'm just saying it could do better (but not "FF better") if they promote it a little bit more, the FF success didn't just came out of nowhere, the advertising was there, and it was huge...

And I wasnt implying you were. But BD's very traditional RPG style was never gonna win people over here in the west. If DQ VIII on the the PS2, JRPG central, with a huge marketing campaign and FFXII demo, couldnt even pull 500k LTD in NA, then BD really didnt have a chance.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

And I wasnt implying you were. But BD's very traditional RPG style was never gonna win people over here in the west. If DQ VIII on the the PS2, JRPG central, with a huge marketing campaign and FFXII demo, couldnt even pull 500k LTD in NA, then BD really didnt have a chance.

Good point, can't disagree with that

 

[knitoe]

Oh and I dont think 360 will be all that kind to JRPGs either.

Developers need to learn that anime style RPGs no longer sale in the WEST. They have to be in art style of FF X - FF XIII. People want realistic characters. Not cartoon look alikes. That's why Lost Odyssey will be a hit.

 

[HK-47]

I would not necessarily call Ratchet a platformer. The series has evolved into much more of a third person shooter (with RPG elements), as opposed to platformer. I guess if you're defining a platformer by the amount of running and jumping that it requires, then I would classify AC as a platformer before I called Ratchet one. Just my 2 cents

Well it started out out as a platformer with shooting elements that evolved. Ratchet 5 I believe was a return to Ratchet pre-UYA, with alot more platforming. Its still fits that mold of a mascot platformer, right? Jak, Ratchet and Sly all evolved into platforming hybrids but they were still grouped under the distinction "platformer"

Just like Ratchet is a platformer with TPS elements, AC could be considered a sandbox game with an emphasis on platforming, no? I still think its has more in common with Crackdown or GTA then with platformers. Sanbox doesnt incorporate many design elements from other genres, just like platformers

 

[RJT]

And what happened to those companies. Sony isnt gonna spin their finacials, especially with Stringer at the helm and pretty much every other division of Sony doing great.

Not to that point.
But they should try a few tricks...

 

[ElNino]

PS: let's not forget that many xbox360 users have multiple 360s because many are buying the arcade/core for backups. So MS shouldn't be too proud for their numbers

:lol :lol :lol

You can't be serious.... for your sake I hope you were being sarcastic and that my meter is broken.

If not, then you are trying too hard.

 

[Ranger X]

HOLYSHIT @ the overall numbers

Where THE HELL is people finding this money!?


:lol

 

[CitizenCope]

By that logic, shouldn't Uncharted have sold somewhere in the 400k's?

Zing!!!!!!
I am about a thousand posts behind.

WTF does PS3 need to get second at least one month?

Uncharted and R&C's horrible numbers are not good for gamers. Do we really want MORE FPS's?

 

[Kestastrophe]

Yes, you do. Ever heard of Enron? WorldCom?

For instance, "Underreporting ‘line costs’ by capitalizing these costs on the balance sheet rather than properly expensing them" (from wikipedia WorldCom scandal page).

Publicly traded companies routinely engage in accounting treatments like you describe in order to meet short term earnings guidance (this practice is called earnings management), albeit not necessarily to the extent that those companies you mentioned did. I forget the name of the acedemic study, but there is empirical evidence that suggests CEOs are willing to put the long-term health of their company at risk in order to meet short-term goals.

*Edit*
The study is called, "The Economic Implications of Corporate Financial Reporting" and it was authored by John Graham, Campbell Harvey, and Shiva Rajgopal. I have the 72 page paper saved if anyone is interested.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

This is the result of making the PS3 the Blu-ray trojan horse. They might win the home video market (where they split licensing), but they're going to lose the gaming market. I don't know if that's worth it to Sony or not, we'll have to see how it all affects their bottom line by the end of this console generation. I love my PS3 as a Blu-ray player, but I haven't purchased a game for it since Warhawk (which I no longer own).

I think Sony is very fortunate that Microsoft didn't drop the price of the 360 any earlier or the PS3 would have already been steamrolled completely. I'm willing to bet, however, that a $275 Premium pack will hit before the PS3 dips below $399. Microsoft is in a very good position right now.

Nintendo is just crazy. I seriously think that if supplies weren't constrained that the Wii could have moved 2 million (yes, 2 million) units in November. My mom asks me every day if I've found any Wiis because all her friends and neighbors are looking for them for their own kids. I also still have friends trying to come by them and the media buzz is out of control. I can't ever remember a system keeping its pre-launch attention/demand up for over a year. It really is incredible.

By the end of the generation it's going to be obvious that Sony made a huge mistake by cramming all those features into the PS3. They priced themselves out of the war and confused the consumer. The 360 has just been a much easier product to understand and support from the get go.

 

[Nameless]

There is nothing Sony can really do to pick up momentum. They fucked up with their $600 price tag and their arrogance that people will line up in droves to get it just 'cuz its Sony. It was the same arrogance Nintendo had with their Nintendo 64. Now every move they make seems like a panic move to desperately push some more units off the shelves.

They also fucked up by going through a second consecutive holiday season without a bona fide system seller, or at the very least a collective group of games that make the system a must buy product. And like you said, a lot of that is the result of sheer arrogance. People gave Nintendo shit for moving Zelda:TP development over the Wii but it helped move units last holiday season. Maybe Sony should have done the same thing with God of War II. Also, I would've done everything possible to make sure that MGS4 launched this year--as much money, resources, extra programmers Konami needed, I would've provided. Now its going to launch in the Spring time with only a fraction of the system selling power it would've had during the holidays.

If you look at the PS3's current situation its the direct result of arrogance and piss-poor planning on Sony's part.

 

[RJT]

there is empirical evidence that suggests CEOs are willing to put the long-term health of their company at risk in order to meet short-term goals.

Not just CEOs. Being a controller, I've heard incredible shit from some people trying to manipulate their figures.

The study is called, "The Economic Implications of Corporate Financial Reporting" and it was authored by John Graham, Campbell Harvey, and Shiva Rajgopal. I have the 72 page paper saved if anyone is interested.

I am.

 

[avatar299]

Developers need to learn that anime style RPGs no longer sale in the WEST. They have to be in art style of FF X - FF XIII. People want realistic characters. Not cartoon look alikes. That's why Lost Odyssey will be a hit.

Pokemon.

 

[jonabbey]

This is the result of making the PS3 the Blu-ray trojan horse. They might win the home video market (where they split licensing), but they're going to lose the gaming market. I don't know if that's worth it to Sony or not, we'll have to see how it all affects their bottom line by the end of this console generation. I love my PS3 as a Blu-ray player, but I haven't purchased a game for it since Warhawk (which I no longer own).

I think Sony is very fortunate that Microsoft didn't drop the price of the 360 any earlier or the PS3 would have already been steamrolled completely. I'm willing to bet, however, that a $275 Premium pack will hit before the PS3 dips below $399. Microsoft is in a very good position right now.

Nintendo is just crazy. I seriously think that if supplies weren't constrained that the Wii could have moved 2 million (yes, 2 million) units in November. My mom asks me every day if I've found any Wiis because all her friends and neighbors are looking for them for their own kids. I also still have friends trying to come by them and the media buzz is out of control. I can't ever remember a system keeping its pre-launch attention/demand up for over a year. It really is incredible.

By the end of the generation it's going to be obvious that Sony made a huge mistake by cramming all those features into the PS3. They priced themselves out of the war and confused the consumer. The 360 has just been a much easier product to understand and support from the get go.

I think the biggest thing on the 360 is Live, honestly. I've said before about the powerful benefits Microsoft has tapped into with their network effects-driven strategy, and it's stunning that Sony hasn't realized the criticality of getting the same thing going on their platform. Having PSN friends lists etc. is nice, but without so much as an invite system, it's just a pale shadow of Live. Let alone a standard means of doing invites from within games, etc., etc. Just horrible, and their focus on Home, rather than providing standard functionality that can be accessed from within every game.. it's just mystifying.

Add to that having RSX wind up being half as powerful as the Xenos so that ports tend to be inferior, the pricing at launch.. Sony has really screwed things up.

For those of you looking for a Sony fan meltdown, maybe you can count this. I'm a PS3 exclusive console gamer, and I really do love the games on the platform, but network effects kill in this business, and the more PS3 is perceived and described as a failure, the more psychological pressure there is on people to 'join the winning team', rather than sticking it out in the unpopular crowd.

Still, there's always Little Big Planet. ;-)

 

[Kestastrophe]

Not just CEOs. Being a controller, I've heard incredible shit from some people trying to manipulate their figures.


I am.

PM sent.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

HOLYSHIT @ the overall numbers

Where THE HELL is people finding this money!?


:lol

Credit: It's like free money!™

 

[HK-47]

Credit: It's like free money!™

:lol

 

[tanod]

Not to that point.
But they should try a few tricks...

*fellow accountant/controller here*

I've always said that every accountant cooks the books. The good ones follow the recipe.

I wonder if there is some type of accelerated write-off method for capitalized R&D expenses (similar to accelerated depreciation methods). If so, I could see Sony taking a huge hit in this year in order to increase their financial position in the near future.

To reiterate what somebody said: You can't amortize R&D costs any more. Specifically prohibited by Sarbanes Oxley, IIRC. It gets expensed when the product is released

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

They also fucked up by going through a second consecutive holiday season without a bona fide system seller, or at the very least a collective group of games that make the system a must buy product. And like you said, a lot of that is the result of sheer arrogance. People gave Nintendo shit for moving Zelda:TP development over the Wii but it helped move units last holiday season. Maybe Sony should have done the same thing with God of War II. Also, I would've done everything possible to make sure that MGS4 launched this year--as much money, resources, extra programmers Konami needed, I would've provided. Now its going to launch in the Spring time with only a fraction of the system selling power it would've had during the holidays.

If you look at the PS3's current situation its the direct result of arrogance and piss-poor planning on Sony's part.

No doubt.

Sony had no real plan to go up against Halo 3, Mario Galaxy, the insane sales of the Wii, etc. Perhaps they believed that Uncharted was going to be their huge seller for the holidays but if that was the case, then it was a dumb idea to put all their eggs in that basket.

By the time MGS4 comes out, that gap will be at or over probably 6 million in the US. I don't recall MGS2's sales being 6 million. I believe it was 5. Final Fantasy XIII might sell 2-3 million and this is just assuming that PS3 sequel numbers will be as strong as PS2 prequel numbers. Sony might outpace 360 sales for a couple of months but that won't be enough to fix the damage.

Doesn't mean the PS3 can't put in a decent performance overall but Sony is just going to have to get used to being #3 in the US.

 

[Stop It]

Credit: It's like free money!™

Unless if you're called UBS, Northern Rock, Barclays, or any Sub prime mortgage lender or anyone who may have lent money to them, where it's known as "Bad Debt".

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Well I said last month that I'd visit the home of every PS3 owner that didn't buy Uncharted and chop their balls off with a bolt cutter. Time to get busy.

 

[Skiptastic]

See, I think the problem with the small userbase and games not faring extremely well on the PS3 is that it's hard for companies to determine what kinds of games will succeed and which will fail in the US on that platform. It's pretty easy right now for the other two systems:

Xbox 360
-put the following on disc: established franchises, action games (especially during the summer, see Tenchi X), sports games, shooters
-put the following on XBLA: PSP ports, inexpensive puzzle/"old skool gameplay" games, arcade ports with inexpensive upgrades

Wii
-put the following on disc: Mario games, minigame collections, casual franchises
-put the following on VC: ROM dumps

Business is about minimizing risk. Right now, with an uncertain demographic of gamers on the PS3, you can't be sure what will or will not succeed. Therefore, developing solely for the PS3 is increasing risk, which any third party developer would want to minimize.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Well I said last month that I'd visit the home of every PS3 owner that didn't buy Uncharted and chop their balls off with a bolt cutter. Time to get busy.

So we won't hear from you for at least a year then.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Well I said last month that I'd visit the home of every PS3 owner that didn't buy Uncharted and chop their balls off with a bolt cutter. Time to get busy.

You do the ballcutting, I'll run a charity site to fund the traveling.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

So we won't hear from you for at least a year then.

My retarded twin brother will be posting for me. You won't be able to tell the difference really. Chopped up sentences, massive spelling errors, lapses in logic.....it'll be like I never left.

 

[Kintaro]

Credit: It's like free money!™

I fixed your comment with the correct link. :lol

 

[TheLegendary]

Can anyone whip up a decent list of PSP million sellers? I know both GTAs, Ridge Racer, SW: Battlefront and both Monster Hunters are there but I'm not that familar with the numbers for the machine.

Interested as well.