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NYT: Chinese Cash Floods U.S. Real Estate Market

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Dalek

Member
Chinese Cash Floods U.S. Real Estate Market


00chinahouse-web5-articleLarge.jpg

A statue outside a shopping center in Richardson, Tex. The interest from Chinese buyers is reshaping demographics in the state

Canyon Lake Ranch was once a playground for Christian day campers, and then was a corporate retreat with water-skiing, barbecues and cowboy shoot-’em-up shows. Hawks now circle above 108 sunbaked acres occupied by copperhead snakes, a few coyotes and the occasional construction truck.

Soon this ranch will be a gated subdivision of 99 mini-mansions designed for buyers from mainland China. The developer, Zhang Long, a Beijing businessman, is keeping three plots to build his own estate along the site of an old rodeo arena.

This luxury development 35 miles northwest of Dallas is the latest frontier in a global buying phenomenon as Chinese money becomes a major force in real estate around the world. The flood of money is likely to persist despite the current tumult in China. While a currency devaluation and stock market crash have crimped the country’s buying power overseas, the resulting uncertainty is making many Chinese individuals and companies eager to invest anywhere except their home country.

In London, Chinese investors are purchasing high-end apartments in wealthy neighborhoods and big skyscrapers in the financial district. In Canada, they are paying $1 million for modest Vancouver bungalows. In Australia, a Chinese sovereign wealth fund bought nine office towers, one of the biggest real estate transactions in that nation’s history.

In the United States, the home-buying spree began on the coasts, where Chinese buyers snapped up luxury condos in Manhattan and McMansions in Silicon Valley, pushing up home values in big cities. It is now spreading to the middle of the country, where prices are more modest and have room to run.

The homes here in Corinth will feature two master suites, one for the buyers, the other for aging parents. A concierge service will help new arrivals from overseas order Internet service and pay electric bills. Chauffeurs will ferry homeowners until they learn to navigate the loops and spurs of Texas freeways.

“When Chairman Zhang saw the strength of the Texan economy, he decided it was time that the Asian community should be presented an opportunity to invest in the American Dream,” marketing materials for the development read.

The great property rush is part of the tidal wave of Chinese money that is pouring into the global economy and reshaping financial markets. In residential and commercial real estate, the new flow of cash is upending the traditional dynamics of buying and selling.

This year, Chinese families represented for the first time the largest group of overseas home buyers in the United States. Big spenders on new homes are helping prop up local economies in the Midwest. But in dense areas like San Francisco and Manhattan, they are also affecting the affordability and availability of housing, as demand outpaces supply and bidding wars ensue.

While Chinese purchases make up a small sliver of overall sales in the United States, they have had a disproportionate impact on the market for more expensive properties, buying one in 14 homes sold for more than $1 million. On average, buyers from China, including the mainland, Taiwan and Hong Kong, pay $831,800 for a home, more than three times as much as Americans spend, according to a National Association of Realtors survey.

Some Chinese are buying homes purely as investments, capitalizing on surging rents in many parts of the United States. Others are trying to move their money beyond the reach of the Chinese government.

Many buyers have their children’s education in mind, picking up homes in good school districts or close to universities. At the upper echelon, the wealthy are hoping for green cards, joining with developers to take advantage of a federal program that fast-tracks them for residency.

Eric Du, a management and investment consultant from Beijing, was motivated by the potential for his family and his fortune. Over the last two years, he bought a townhouse — sight unseen — and two single-family homes in Northbrook, Ill., north of Chicago. He paid cash for all of them.

He plans to live in one, to give his children a chance to breathe cleaner air and learn at a better school than he could find in his hometown. He will rent out the other two.

“The price of property in Beijing is very high, the stock market is crashing, and the real economy is not stable,” Mr. Du said of the environment in China. “The people here have some money, but they don’t have enough good ways to invest their money.”

The swell of funds from China represents the confluence of several big trends.

Over the last six years, the Chinese government has kept the country awash with cash to stimulate the economy, which means a lot of extra money available to slosh abroad. The Chinese government has also made it easier for individuals to move large sums out of the country, as part of a broader liberalization of the nation’s heavily regulated financial system.
The government is loosening the rules for corporations, too. Beijing now allows insurance companies to invest as much as 15 percent of their assets overseas, helping drive a surge in commercial purchases.


Chinese companies have been buying stakes in American trophy properties like the General Motors Building and the Waldorf Astoria in New York. The situation is drawing comparisons to the 1980s, when Japanese companies invested heavily in American commercial real estate at premium prices.

But the highflying deals may have only just begun. By the end of last year, Chinese insurers had only 1.44 percent of their money overseas.

“The Chinese are deliberate; there will clearly be large capital flows coming to the West,” said Stephen A. Schwarzman, chief executive of the Blackstone Group, the largest private landlord in the United States. “That will increase in frequency until the Chinese government decides it shouldn’t happen anymore — they’ve opened the spigot.”
 
The Japanese were doing this just before their economy crashed and burned in the 1990's.

Let's hope the Chinese are a bit better with managing their economy than the Japanese were.
 

Hycran

Banned
What did Vancouver do wrong?


Yep, I wonder how people will react as more precious real estate is bought up.


Allowed a massive influx of foreign chinese real estate ownership, thereby raising the housing prices in Vancouver beyond what citizens of the city can actually afford. Houses in West Vancouver are going for multiple millions of dollars and are in some cases 4 or 5 million dollar teardowns. It was widely denied by the city and mayor until a recent study showed that chinese foreign ownership in multimillion dollar properties is actually causing the problem.
 
You should check out Sydney

As I understand it China has capital controls, like a tiny amount per year per citizen, but these are obviously easily circumvented. Also western countries have strong anti-money laundering controls as well, but for some reason property is a giant loophole. If you can wire money into a bank account, you've got the property, and once got, its very difficult to lose it.
 

Syriel

Member
San Francisco says welcome to the last decade.

Investment money from overseas drives prices up.

A lot of second homes that aren't lived in full time, nor rented out (due to SF rent control laws).

Constrains the housing supply even more and completes the price loop.
 

Keri

Member
As someone who does not own a home, I wish Chinese investors would stop buying property where I live and further inflating an over-inflated market. If they could just take, like a 2-year break, that would be awesome for me.
 

jabuseika

Member
They are all just offloading dollars for real state.

Should tell you something.

They have also driven up prices on real state here in LA. They just buy anything. Half the city can't afford to live here anymore. :(
 
Allowed a massive influx of foreign chinese real estate ownership, thereby raising the housing prices in Vancouver beyond what citizens of the city can actually afford. Houses in West Vancouver are going for multiple millions of dollars and are in some cases 4 or 5 million dollar teardowns. It was widely denied by the city and mayor until a recent study showed that chinese foreign ownership in multimillion dollar properties is actually causing the problem.

I work in the Canadian real estate sector and there was a deal a few weeks ago where one Chinese investor was selling to another Chinese investor. The house/ property was 99% land value and it was bought for 1.5Million last December and sold for 2.5 million this year.
 

Dalek

Member
As someone who does not own a home, I wish Chinese investors would stop buying property where I live and further inflating an over-inflated market. If they could just take, like a 2-year break, that would be awesome for me.

Yeah this is happening in the Bay Area. The house next door to mine went up for sale last year-the open house was a parade of Chinese families looking to buy the house to use as a rental property. It's happening all over the Bay Area-it's crazy.
 

entremet

Member
Trust me you will see and read some shit as it become more and more widespread.

According to this thread, it's already happening.

I hope cities smarten up. I don't believe in protectionism, but they fact that your own citizens are being priced out of their home market, is troubling.
 

Magik

Member
According to this thread, it's already happening.

I hope cities smarten up. I don't believe in protectionism, but they fact that your own citizens are being priced out of their home market, is troubling.

That's been happening for a LONG time in Toronto and Vancouver. Its to the point where you either put yourself in a lot of debt or buy property way outside of the city. It really sucks but that's just how things are nowdays.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I'd be curious to see actual stats on how many sells are made to foreign buyers, let alone Chinese citizens specifically. I hear a lot of "yellow peril" talks but no numbers to backup the claims that they are responsible for a significant rise in home prices.

From what I hear from people I know eating up the hype on how real estate prices never go down and you're an idiot for not buying, it sounds to me like the real problem isn't the Chinese but financially illiterate folks right here.
 

Nipo

Member
Yup, really common in DC. Last two houses we looked at went to all Cash foreign buyers. It was enough to make us realized if we want to own a home we need to move out of the region. I'd fully support a 15% tax on non resident and investment properties similar to Hong Kong.
 

Syriel

Member
Is this an issue because the buyers are Chinese? What if the buyers were all from Australia?

It's an issue of distortion in the market brought about by a massive influx of buyers with no shortage of cash.

Ethnicity matters not, as demonstrated by the hate in SF for anyone working "in tech."

It's all about the market distortions that completely price out locals.
 

entremet

Member
What you mean by protectionism?

Protectionist policies, such as adding more fees or taxes for foreign buyers.

We already have them in place, btw. Work visas aren't easy to get. That's technically protectionist so the employment market favors citizens.
 
It's an issue of distortion in the market brought about by a massive influx of buyers with no shortage of cash.

Ethnicity matters not, as demonstrated by the hate in SF for anyone working "in tech."

It's all about the market distortions that completely price out locals.

How do these towns enable a way for the locals to be fairly supported while the sellers still make the profit they want?
 
Is this an issue because the buyers are Chinese? What if the buyers were all from Australia?
I feel that within the next few years, I'm definitely going to be discriminated against for the fact that Chinese investors have driven up prices screwing over locals. And as an ethnically Chinese person, most will not bother making the distinction between someone who's brought money from China vs myself who's been here for most of my life and can barely afford any of it.
 

entremet

Member
I'd be curious to see actual stats on how many sells are made to foreign buyers, let alone Chinese citizens specifically. I hear a lot of "yellow peril" talks but no numbers to backup the claims that they are responsible for a significant rise in home prices.

From what I hear from people I know eating up the hype on how real estate prices never go down and you're an idiot for not buying, it sounds to me like the real problem isn't the Chinese but financially illiterate folks right here.

Buying real estate in major cities is almost a sure thing right now. Cities are becoming very attractive place to live in, especially for the rich.

I had a coworker who sustained herself for a year and half of unemployment by renting out her SF condo she bought before the real estate boom.
 

Nipo

Member
I feel that within the next few years, I'm definitely going to be discriminated against for the fact that Chinese investors have driven up prices screwing over locals. And as an ethnically Chinese person, most will not bother making the distinction between someone who's brought money from China vs myself who's been here for most of my life and can barely afford any of it.

Are you planning to pay in cash for a $1-3 million dollar home? If not it is pretty easy to make the distinction. The people that are driving up homes don't need to mortgage the house and often times don't even live it in themselves.
 

rrs

Member
I could say that at least in the midwest, land prices go up due to generally rich families wanting a big house at a cheap price and don't mind a drive, along with large developments on the edges of cities
 

Jintor

Member
It's a particular contributor to the Sydney housing problem for sure, but I don't know how major - that's currently in dispute. I don't think it's as clear cut in Sydney anyway as this article says it is in the US
 

numble

Member
Are you planning to pay in cash for a $1-3 million dollar home? If not it is pretty easy to make the distinction. The people that are driving up homes don't need to mortgage the house and often times don't even live it in themselves.

So you propose he always wear a T-shirt or a patch that says "I have a mortgage"? He is talking about being discriminated against for being associated with "outsiders" that distort the neighborhood, similar to how native SFers may discriminate against people that "work in the valley".
 

Estellex

Member
I feel that within the next few years, I'm definitely going to be discriminated against for the fact that Chinese investors have driven up prices screwing over locals. And as an ethnically Chinese person, most will not bother making the distinction between someone who's brought money from China vs myself who's been here for most of my life and can barely afford any of it.

That is probably going to be the scariest part of this story. How are the racial tensions now?

Are Chinese people or Asians in general already being discriminated by this?
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
IIRC, China doesn't have a great way to invest money in their economy, so the rich go to real estate. I've heard of entire towns spring up in China with huge residential buildings that have almost nobody living in them. An "if you build it, they will come" sort of mentality.
 

Nipo

Member
So you propose he always wear a T-shirt or a patch that says "I have a mortgage"? He is talking about being discriminated against for being associated with "outsiders" that distort the neighborhood, similar to how native SFers may discriminate against people that "work in the valley".

Why would he need to? As soon as a home sells everyone in the neighborhood knows what it sold for and whether the buyer is an owner occupant or investor. People tend to keep track of what comps are going for in their neighborhood.

Maybe that is just a DC/NYC thing?
 

Estellex

Member
IIRC, China doesn't have a great way to invest money in their economy, so the rich go to real estate. I've heard of entire towns spring up in China with huge residential buildings that have almost nobody living in them. An "if you build it, they will come" sort of mentality.

Isn't this due to the majority of the population still living in poverty. Most of the population probably wouldn't be able to afford migrating to these cities yet alone sustain living in them
 
That is probably going to be the scariest part of this story. How are the racial tensions now?

Are Chinese people or Asians in general already being discriminated by this?
Canadians are too kind, but I've definitely heard stories of Vancouverites bitch about forigen investments from Chinese people. Toronto is a bit better since we know it's a greater issue of condo boom and population boom from the wave of immigrants with children in the last 20+ years.
 
Why would he need to? As soon as a home sells everyone in the neighborhood knows what it sold for and whether the buyer is an owner occupant or investor. People tend to keep track of what comps are going for in their neighborhood.

Maybe that is just a DC/NYC thing?

you dont seem to understand how racism works aka its not logical.
 

Madness

Member
Vancouver should be a case study of how not to handle the situation.

Unless you're a Vancouver home owner wanting to move out of the city or retire. I know someone who sold their house for 20% more than its worth to someone from Mainland China. They weren't ever going to get that kind of money from anyone actually residing here and they know it.

Petty much most of the Vancouver real estate market is being controlled by Mainland Chinese funds. On the one hand, it's a huge boon getting foreign money into the province, on the other hand, it's basically priced out the entire lower Mainland for anyone who lives here. Even two full time working married people will struggle to buy more than a townhouse these days. Small ass lots, tiny condos everywhere. I read something like 70% of all sales are happening from mainland Chinese buyers who see it as a good investment, buying up entire condo floors, entire townhouse strip units at a time.
 

numble

Member
Protectionist policies, such as adding more fees or taxes for foreign buyers.

We already have them in place, btw. Work visas aren't easy to get. That's technically protectionist so the employment market favors citizens.

Taxes would further distort the market as it incentivizes governments to pursue foreign buyers that give more tax revenue. It may not work either, as Chinese individuals are already circumventing foreign currency limits to get the cash to buy overseas (each person can only can move $50,000 of cash out per year, but if you have 19 family members or people you can pay to use their quota, you can move out $1 million), so they can easily do something similar by using nominee property holders (tons of people/companies willing to take a fee to hold property in someone's name--this is already done with trusts).

Finally, even if work visas are hard to get, an investment visa is worth $500,000--and the visa holder should qualify for residency after 2 years, and you may run into equal protection issues for discriminatory treatment for people which should be afforded equal protection of the laws after being subject to the jurisdiction of the US.
 

Keri

Member
That is probably going to be the scariest part of this story. How are the racial tensions now?

Are Chinese people or Asians in general already being discriminated by this?

I think a lot of the areas being targeted by Chinese investors are already pretty diverse. So, the Chinese investors who are driving prices up won't necessarily be easily identifiable, from other Chinese-Americans who already live in these areas. Also, there's a weird dynamic at play, because home-owners looking to sell, obviously love Chinese investors. So, people who can afford to sell and upgrade are going to look very favorably on the Chinese investors. It's only people who do not yet own property, who end up getting screwed by inflated prices.
 

Madness

Member
That is probably going to be the scariest part of this story. How are the racial tensions now?

Are Chinese people or Asians in general already being discriminated by this?

Nah, there's no real racism. Most know that it's precisely mainland Chinese investors and rich individuals driving up the market. The average 'Asian' in BC who grows up middle class won't be able to afford them either. I think though, that mainland Chinese will have it tougher than Hong Kongers/Taiwanese. You have people in Surrey, Burnaby, Richmond, Langley bemoan the same issues that happened in Vancouver, happening there.

Though, why would any prospective house seller turn down any buyers? If anything, these investors and whatnot pay a premium.
 
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