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[TalonJH]

GARFIELD, KY (WAVE) – A couple faces a hearing Monday to regain custody of their 10 children, whom Child Protective Services put into foster care Wednesday following a confrontation between their mother and a Breckinridge County sheriff's deputy .

Nicole and Joe Naugler are facing charges in a case that has prompted an outcry on social media from supporters of their family's “off-the-grid” lifestyle.

Neighbor Travis Metcalf isn't buying it.

"They're living underneath tarps," he said. "So kinda take it at that."

"No Trespassing" signs mark the perimeter of the Naugler's 27-acre homestead, located off of a gravel road. Facebook page photos reveal tarps cover the wood framing that serves as the family's quarters. There is no wired electricity, only generators. No running water and no toilets; only shallow latrines or slop buckets.

Dozens of photos posted on the social media page show the children playing in snow or mud.

"They delivered a baby up there last winter," Metcalf said. "It was about 30 degrees below zero; it's no living conditions for a kid at all."

The children do not attend formal schools. Postings allude to a “free-schooling” approach in which parents provide “life lessons” to each child at his or her own pace.

The Nauglers have depended upon neighbors' private wells or municipal hookups for their drinking water, but a confrontation on Sunday prompted a criminal summons for Joe Naugler on a charge of menacing.

"(Naugler) was turned down for the water request and asked to leave the property," the summons read. "He then said to his son 'get the pistol out of the glove compartment box.'"

“He (Naugler) was acting very erratically,” the complainant said in an interview Friday. “He was calling us names that I have to spell out. I can't even say 'em. And he said ‘don't worry, I know where you live, and I'm gonna be back.'”

On Wednesday a sheriff's deputy went to the Nauglers, summons in hand, attempting to conduct a welfare check for Child Protective Services. He wanted to speak with two of their sons, who reportedly witnessed the water confrontation.

A website run by a supporter of Nicole Naugler posted the audio recordings of her encounter with the deputy:

Deputy: You are standing the chance of having your children removed,
Nicole Naugler: For what, under what grounds?
Deputy: Let me just finish...
Nicole Naugler: For what, for not complying? I have constitutional rights, I have rights as a parent and my children won't speak to anybody without my permission, without an attorney or a lawyer.

The recordings detail several minutes of similar discourse. The deputy warned Nicole Naugler she faced felony charges of interference and could lose custody by court order if she continued to deny CPS access to question her children.

The confrontations would end with both parties yelling and Nicole Naugler in cuffs.

Deputy: Ma'am, sit down!
Nicole Naugler: You cannot kidnap my son!
Deputy: You're gonna be under arrest.
Nicole Naugler: You can shoot me dead, shoot me dead but you won't kidnap my son!
Deputy: Ma'am, You need to sit down in that car!
Nicole Naugler: Shoot me!

Nicole Naugler was taken into custody and charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

http://www.wave3.com/story/29019229/off-grid-couple-faces-hearing-to-regain-custody-of-10-children

I'm kind of torn on this article. How do you guys feel? Should they have taken the children away. Is it okay for them to live like this with children?


Edit: To clear some things up, it seems that they choose to live this way. It's not just a result of being poor. For instance, their kids don't have Social Security numbers and don't want them to. Not sure how but the Father has a Facebook page that he uses as an extention to his personal blog. https://www.facebook.com/MyBlessedLittleHomestead?fref=ts.

Husband also has an associates degree. They also seem to be building a new house out of wood planks and pallets. Picture from May 8th:

They seem to have some supporters. There is also crowd-sourcing site for the wife's dog grooming business at $21,480 which apparently is 108% of its goal.

Interesting side-note update: I live about a 1hr 30min drive from them. They are about 1hr from Churchill Downs in Louisville, KY where the Kentucky Derby is held and 49min away from Fort Knox where The United States Department of the Treasury has the Gold Bullion Depository. Basically not the middle of nowhere. I was guessing that they lived in eastern Kentucky which some place can look like the movie Deliverance there.

 

[ginger ninja]

Doomsday preping, the ultimate first world problem.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

I have no problem with their lifestyle besides the living in horrible conditions and having to use water that's not on their property. You can do off grid living and not live in a stick hut.


They chose poorly and these are the consequences.

 

[Slayven]

Live in whatever fuckery you want, but don't drag kids into it.

 

[hipbabboom]

I think its fucked up that the parents aren't making any efforts to give their kids the necessary knowledge and exposure to what they will need to be successful in modern society. To the extent the state either the parents and parents have to ensure a child has proper opportunities is a grey area for me. I think what the parents are doing is deplorable and aimlessly idealistic but those are their children Maybe the parents need to be mentally screened. They may need help.

 

[Casimir]

How do you guys feel? Should they have taken the children away. Is it okay for them to live like this with children?

"There is no wired electricity, only generators.No running water and no toilets; only shallow latrines or slop buckets..."They delivered a baby up there last winter," Metcalf said. "It was about 30 degrees below zero; it's no living conditions for a kid at all."

The children do not attend formal schools. Postings allude to a “free-schooling” approach in which parents provide “life lessons” to each child at his or her own pace."

Since this seems to be a lifestyle choice instead of the results of crippling poverty, it's for the better that the children were taken away from the parents.

 

[Earthstrike]

The guy threatened to kill someone for not providing him free water. He clearly doesn't have access to the resources he needs to raise his children.

 

[AlexMogil]

I think it's all well and good if you find someone who has a like mind and wants to live like that, but once you bring kids into the equation... that's irresponsible.

 

[Bizazedo]

I don't sympathize with these people at all. Of course, I am also slightly disturbed by that show focusing on the Alaskan family, but whatever.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

These "off-the-grid" people worship self-sufficiency, but the fact is that they're the real parasites that depend on modern society. Even in the middle ages, people tended farms communally; what this family is doing is not natural.
They deserve to have their children taken away. That is not a sufficient environment.

 

[DarkKyo]

That place looks like Craster's Keep lol

 

[Marcus]

I dont think I understand. The parents are poor or they actually choose to live that lifestyle?

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

I'm confused...they're 'off the grid' but the dad has a Facebook account?

 

[Opiate]

The guy threatened to kill someone for not providing him free water. He clearly doesn't have access to the resources he needs to raise his children.

This would be my assessment.

 

[tcrunch]

https://www.facebook.com/HomesteadMomma/posts/1443307852646119

https://www.facebook.com/MyBlessedLittleHomestead/photos/pcb.1005391352806075/1005388146139729/

 

[B-Dubs]

You can't raise kids like that. If you want to live like that it's your right, but don't drag kids into that insane shit.

Honestly, there's nothing to be torn about here. I just hope the kids get placed in a good foster home, but that's probably not going to be hard considering what they're coming from.

 

[Ayato Kanzaki]

" No running water and no toilets; only shallow latrines or slop buckets."

That by itself is reason enough to take the kids away. The hygiene must be pretty terrible. Are the kids even vaccinated? And the "life" lessons are basically just the father imprinting his distorted view of society into his childrens, who are too isolated from other human beings to develop a critical view on it.

And don't get me started on the threat of violence.

 

[VariantX]

It's one thing to live off the grid, its another to live like animals in a pen. There's nothing wrong in concept with living off the grid if you can provide yourself and family a safe and comfortable home with all your needs met, but they don't even have adequate shelter and a water supply.

 

[AndyD]

This would be my assessment.

Yep. If they had a stream/well and were truly self-sufficient, it would be another matter.

 

[Matty77]

I have no issues with people living alternative lifestyles, and if they have kids as long as those kids are cared for ,educated, and well adjusted only an asshole would support taking the kids just because they do not live like you.

This particular case however, from the reports and conditions of their living space, needing to hook off neighbors and threatening violence I don't feel the requirements of the kids being cared for, educated, and well adjusted are being met, so I am not sure they should have the kids, at least not without some kind of oversight and certain stipulations be put forward that they have to meet to retain custody.

Edit: I stand by what I said but now seeing the mothers tweet in opposition to paperwork and documentation on her kids and feeling they should not have to I don't think these two are fit to be parents.

 

[TouchMyBox]

And here I thought that living "off the grid" was putting up some solar panels and getting a septic tank.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

While I don't agree with the whole off the grid thing, I don't think we should be taking peoples' kids away for it, but running/drinking water is kind of important.

 

[sphagnum]

These "off-the-grid" people worship self-sufficiency, but the fact is that they're the real parasites that depend on modern society. Even in the middle ages, people tended farms communally; what this family is doing is not natural.
They deserve to have their children taken away. That is not a sufficient environment.

Bingo.

 

[B_Spooky13]

I wouldnt mind the whole off the grid if they had a proper shelter to live in like a cabin or something.. But that is not shelter. Especially if it gets 30 below.

Then the guy threatens someones life because he wasn't going to give him free water. There's clearing something wrong with the guy

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

If you rely on your neighbours to provide you and your family with drinking water then you're not living off the grid. You're probably a little nuts.

 

[The Technomancer]

These "off-the-grid" people worship self-sufficiency, but the fact is that they're the real parasites that depend on modern society. Even in the middle ages, people tended farms communally; what this family is doing is not natural.
They deserve to have their children taken away. That is not a sufficient environment.

More or less my thoughts

No problem with CPS stepping in

 

[_RT_]

Alaskan Bush People

One family "lives off the grid" and they get a TV show.
Another family does it and they want to take the kids away.

While I agree that it isn't the best environment for kids, I don't quite see what laws they are breaking.

 

[Armaros]

Alaskan Bush People

One family "lives off the grid" and they get a TV show.
Another family does it and they want to take the kids away.

While I agree that it isn't the best environment for kids, I don't quite see what laws they are breaking.

Child neglect?

They rely on neighbors water supply and threatened their neighbor when he refused?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Commit to living "off the grid" while using a Facebook account...?

 

[lem0n]

I just knew that their facebook page would be filled with religious nonsense

 

[joelseph]

The amount of food and water 10 kids would require, how the heck are they doing it?

 

[TouchMyBox]

Commit to living "off the grid" while using a Facebook account...?

How else are they going to follow the trending topics on #offthegridlyfe ?

 

[JDSN]

Alaskan Bush People

One family "lives off the grid" and they get a TV show.
Another family does it and they want to take the kids away.

While I agree that it isn't the best environment for kids, I don't quite see what laws they are breaking.

Well, you need to read the Op to know which ones.

 

[Jams775]

And here I thought that living "off the grid" was putting up some solar panels and getting a septic tank.

Or at least start with digging a well and cutting some of their trees down and making some type of cabin. Like others have echoed, living off the grid like people did before really would mean turning to your community for help or risk dying off that year. If something ever happens to the world where we are forced into this situation, I fear a lot of communities will have the hardest time with that part. It's not like there aren't options and assistance to help get your kids to the doctor and to school, etc. Also these parents aren't just off the grid. They are delusional. I think something's gone sour in these hillbillies minds these past years. What was that movement called? That one where that one guy shot a cop and disappeared off into the woods, etc?

 

[B-Dubs]

The amount of food and water 10 kids would require, how the heck are they doing it?

From the sounds of it they were threatening their neighbors to get what they needed.

 

[j_k_redtail]

I dont think I understand. The parents are poor or they actually choose to live that lifestyle?

Would be useful to have an answer to this question. Might be the former, pretending to be the latter.

 

[Somnid]

My assessment:

- That's a lot of kids
- Simple living is fine, lack of modern sanitation is not, they at least need an outhouse
- Lack of water is big, you need that
- Exposure risk in a tarp hut
- Threatening others is not okay
- Homeschool is not okay

The kids deserve to be taken. I respect people who live off the grid but there is a right and wrong way to be doing this and they are basically living in 3rd world conditions by choice and that's a burden on their children and those around them..

 

[_RT_]

Well, you need to read the Op to know which ones.

I did. I guess I should qualify:

The outrage people have against them and the way they are raising their family has nothing to do with the way he got is water or the laws they broke since. People are questioning the way they live. Hence my statement.

And again.... I wouldn't do it, nor do I think it's good for kids. But... is what they are doing illegal?

 

[TalonJH]

Would be useful to have an answer to this question. Might be the former, pretending to be the latter.

I updated it. It seems that it is a lifestyle choice. They are also against things like public schooling, social security numbers, etc. Father has an associates degree and mother is getting money from donations to expand dog grooming business.

 

[The Lamonster]

That place looks like Craster's Keep lol

haha it really does.

 

[Matty77]

- Homeschool is not okay

Disagree with this. It's not homeschooling that is the problem it's that most who do it are not up to it and have messed up reasons and also shelter their kids in other ways.

But homeschooling itself is fine if done properly and you take advantage of the laws about it to use available resources so your child still socializes and has extracurricular activities.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

I did. I guess I should qualify:

The outrage people have against them and the way they are raising their family has nothing to do with the way he got is water or the laws they broke since. People are questioning the way they live. Hence my statement.

And again.... I wouldn't do it, nor do I think it's good for kids. But... is what they are doing illegal?

I am inclined to think that not having your own water source is the biggest issue. I don't agree with what they are doing, but you really need to have your own water source.

 

[B_Spooky13]

I did. I guess I should qualify:

The outrage people have against them and the way they are raising their family has nothing to do with the way he got is water or the laws they broke since. People are questioning the way they live. Hence my statement.

And again.... I wouldn't do it, nor do I think it's good for kids. But... is what they are doing illegal?

Honestly not even sure if that show is real but if it is they actually work and build a actual home.. they work hard to provide for their families.

This family looks like they tied some sticks together, threw a tarp on top and called it good. The exposure level of that hut (if you can even call it that) is crazy.

Surprised those kids are still alive

 

[Two Words]

They denied their kids several rights as American citizens.

 

[j_k_redtail]

I updated it. It seems that it is a lifestyle choice. They are also against things like public schooling, social security numbers, etc. Father has an associates degree and mother is getting money from donations to expand dog grooming business.

I should clarify - I'm more curious as to what they're doing for an income (aside from donations). How is dad using his associates' degree? (In other words, can the couple's income allow them to support the family? Can they choose to do something else? Or are they choosing this option because they find it preferable to/more palatable than others, like public assistance?)

 

[maquiladora]

Live in whatever fuckery you want, but don't drag kids into it.

This. Grown adults can live in shitty conditions if they want, that's their choice as adults. Kids don't belong there.

 

[Allforce]

I don't get how you make this life altering decision to go "off the grid" and then not even have the most basic knowledge of how to purchase some lumber, concrete for posts, maybe some roofing shingles and a few tools and build an adequate shelter in the span of a few weeks. These people are living in shit you'd see Tom Hanks piece together in Castaway when there's a Home Depot 3 miles away and they OWN A CAR AND A GENERATOR.

Does "off the grid" mean you don't even spend money at businesses too? Bizarro.

 

[hawkshockey11]

I should clarify - I'm more curious as to what they're doing for an income (aside from donations). How is dad using his associates' degree? (In other words, can the couple's income allow them to support the family? Can they choose to do something else? Or are they choosing this option because they find it preferable to/more palatable than others, like public assistance?)

According to her Facebook page, he isn't.

 

[BamfMeat]

I did. I guess I should qualify:

The outrage people have against them and the way they are raising their family has nothing to do with the way he got is water or the laws they broke since. People are questioning the way they live. Hence my statement.

And again.... I wouldn't do it, nor do I think it's good for kids. But... is what they are doing illegal?

What? The way they're living is dangerous for their children. Yes, what they're doing is illegal. How is this even a question?

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Some people are just crazy.