Official Chinese Democracy release thread

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hadareud said:
It's disgusting that talented musicians and songwriters receive no attention and coverage while a complete nobody like Axl Rose does.
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Whilst there are probably thousands of unknown people more talented than GNR as a band but you cannot deny that Axl is a good singer and Buckethead is a good guitarist. (the rest of the band is too, but i don't know their names :s... :p)

Loving the album so far!
 
hadareud said:
I'm not an elitist at all, far from it. You really don't have to be to not like something. Particularly not if what is in question is this album

As for your question - thousands. I know it is unfair to compare things. After all GnR were a product of their time and they were very popular at the time, so it's natural that some attention comes Rose's way. Can't really compare it with modern days, because the music industry as it was does not exist anymore and in particular for rock bands there's hardly any market at all. Certainly not a real mainstream market. Other music types don't compare at all really.

But if you want names - I watched Extreme on Monday night at the Astoria in London (they come from a similar timeframe, if a bit later), and that's a completely different level from what GnR ever were and certainly what Rose today is (can hardly call it the same band anymore imo). I'm talking pure musical and songwriting talent here, not the talent to sell yourself. That's something different. Anyway, no media coverage whatsoever, no marketing for their (excellent) new album. I'd consider that unfair.

Then again it was a brilliant, sold out show. So can't really complain too much.
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:lol "Exteme" is your example of a band that totally trumps GnR? :lol
 
Hitman said:
:lol "Exteme" is your example of a band that totally trumps GnR? :lol
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I've got to chime in because I'm one of the few here that are actually familiar with "Extreme" and I actually do enjoy their new album.

In my opinion, and not simply to piss you off, Chinese Democracy has a lot in common with Extreme's 1991 release III Sides To Every Story. This is in regards to both musical ambition and diversity in the "hard rock" world. Extreme did it first, but that album ended up boring me more often than it thrilled me. Again, just an opinion, but I like just about every track off Chinese. I considered then and now III Sides to be a disappointment.

Extreme, the band, ironically has had almost as long of an absense as GNR, actually. Extreme's new album, what's it called? Saudades De Rock (sp)? It is a decent album but not very significant in that it doesn't really do anything they haven't done before.

As a GNR fan, I'm NOT happy to see the entire band replaced. But I cannot deny that it IS a great album, and a logical successor to the Use Your Illusion albums. The only original GNR guy I miss on Chinese is Izzy Stradlin', who I think could have given the "rockers' of the album a different edge I mighta prefered (they don't suck but aren't "Appetite-Classic" stuff) And no, C.D. shouldn't have taken so long to come out. But a lot of that time was due not just Axl being weird, but him trying to find a replacement band he was happy with, and apparently a ton of lawsuits that I don't know any details of. Don't ask my why he seems to be taking a "vacation" now, that's the weirdest result ever.
 
it's all opinions and I won't deny that my view is biased. I grew up in the time and I can honestly say that 3 sides changed the way I looked at music while I never cared much for GnR.

I can't say I see the comparison myself, but I'll give it another listen.

Hitman said:
:lol "Exteme" is your example of a band that totally trumps GnR? :lol
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If patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, the lol smiley is the last refuge of an ignorant idiot.
 
hadareud said:
it's all opinions and I won't deny that my view is biased. I grew up in the time and I can honestly say that 3 sides changed the way I looked at music while I never cared much for GnR.

I can't say I see the comparison myself, but I'll give it another listen.



If patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, the lol smiley is the last refuge of an ignorant idiot.
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Because I don't give a shit about your opinion. Enjoy these:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Now I don't want to shit on your favorite band Extreme. But from what I've heard off their new album (and I did attempt to listen to their album before making my :lol statements) they make some pretty boring ass rock. More talented than GnR they are not.
 
yeah, I won't go into this discussion. It's like 12 year old school boys arguing about their favourite bands.

You could say it's almost on the same level as the discussion on the gaming side.
 
hadareud said:
yeah, I won't go into this discussion. It's like 12 year old school boys arguing about their favourite bands.

You could say it's almost on the same level as the discussion on the gaming side.
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I wouldn't like to either, I won't change your opinion and you won't change mine. But your the one that came into a GnR thread saying that they are shit and that there are over "1000" bands better than them. But lets agree to disagree.
 
The album is really growing on me. The radio playing 3-4 different songs also helps.


Two pieces of news:

1) It wont be the number 1 release.
2) Axl is suing dr peper for not giving enough people free dr peppers.
 
Just downloaded this album off Napster and I must say I am not impressed. It just didn't click with me. I used to really like GnR back in the 90's, but not this album so much. Maybe my tastes have changed, but this was just kind of meh...
 
daw840 said:
Just downloaded this album off Napster and I must say I am not impressed. It just didn't click with me. I used to really like GnR back in the 90's, but not this album so much. Maybe my tastes have changed, but this was just kind of meh...
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Yeah, I heard big chunks of songs just now and so far my verdict isn't good. Kind of reminds me of Peeping Tom for some reason, except far less talented.

I'd never thought that I'd see the day that a Mike Patton Rock/Hip Hop collab album is better then an album thats purely labeled rock/metal with the major lineup that it has.

Thing about Axl Rose is that it's become obvious to me that ever since seeing the GNR live from Japan DVD that hes trying to be like Freddie Mercury, this album just confirms it even further.
 
get the funk out was written quite a while before RHCP were in any way successful and they made funk rock before any RHCP albums even charted, I doubt they ever heard of them at that stage to be honest.

And there were other bands around that made funk rock before either one of them did.

And even if they were influenced by them (I'm sure they were at some point if before or after doesn't really matter), that's just how music works. You shit what you eat, so to say.

Incidentally Bettencourt and Flea played a few concerts together a few years ago btw.
 
Bought it. Honestly, aside from Madagascar and that piano ballad, the rest of the album sounds like a mish mash of too many styles without direction.
 
Rodeo Clown said:
So, Chinese Democracy is pretty good, eh? "There Was a Time" is so good.
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My favorite song off that album. That, and Sorry.
 
reilo said:
My favorite song off that album. That, and Sorry.
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Mine, too.
Really, there's only 2 songs I don't care for: Street of Dreams and Prostitute.

There Was a Time, Chinese Democracy, Scraped are my top 3 from the album, in that order.
 
I think if I had to pick my 3 favorite tracks from the CD they would be:

Better
Catcher in the Rye
This I love

Dont get me wrong though, with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 songs, I think the album is great. And I hope he doesnt take another 14yrs. LOL!!
 
Rodeo Clown said:
Mine, too.
Really, there's only 2 songs I don't care for: Street of Dreams and Prostitute.

There Was a Time, Chinese Democracy, Scraped are my top 3 from the album, in that order.
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You don't like Prostitute and Street Dreams?!
 
I talked to a friend who is a hardcore AFD fan and thought that the album would suck and he was pleasantly surprised. The phrase was something like "It's not Appetite for Destruction but overall it's like what Use Your Illusion should have been".

Also, kinda strange: "Riad N' The Bedouins" is his 2nd favorite behind "Better".

He also said, "well I guess Axl proved that Slash is replaceable".

His words, not mine, but I'm glad to see people showing Bucket some love. :)
 
Buckethead said:
The phrase was something like "It's not Appetite for Destruction but overall it's like what Use Your Illusion should have been".

Also, kinda strange: "Riad N' The Bedouins" is his 2nd favorite behind "Better".
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Not that strange at all if you ask me, those two tracks are perhaps the ones that sound the most reminiscent of old school GnR rockers, along with Scraped.

I agree that Chinese Democracy is probably the second best entry in the GnR album catalog, it's better than either of the Use Your Illusion discs were alone, and realistically nothing was going to top Appetite in everyone's mind anyway.

One sign of what a diverse, quality record this is--everyone has a different idea of what the best songs are. One person's picks for best tracks are another's pick for the worst!
 
Teddman said:
One sign of what a diverse, quality record this is--everyone has a different idea of what the best songs are. One person's picks for best tracks are another's pick for the worst!
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Yeah, definitely telling and quite interesting.

There all the old band politics but it's a bummer when people can't just enjoy the tunes. I mean it's good stuff....

I don't think when Zeppelin II came out people griped about it "not being Zeppelin I" or even though Zeppelin III had more softer songs on it, it was still a fabulous record and had some great rockin songs on it too. Why not just enjoy 'em? Guess the downside of the whole anonymity and the internet thing...

Hopefully Axl will go on tour now and build up to the next record. I don't doubt that the next one will happen within the next year or two, just will be interesting to see which one.
 
Buckethead said:
He also said, "well I guess Axl proved that Slash is replaceable".

His words, not mine, but I'm glad to see people showing Bucket some love. :)
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The only irreplaceable person in Guns IMO, beside Axl of course, was Izzy. Izzy is a great songwriter and his solo albums are pretty damn great.

I never got the Slash love. He's a great guitarist, but everything he's done besides Guns has pretty much sucked. Slash's Snakepit, meh.
 
dead souls said:
The only irreplaceable person in Guns IMO, beside Axl of course, was Izzy. Izzy is a great songwriter and his solo albums are pretty damn great.

I never got the Slash love. He's a great guitarist, but everything he's done besides Guns has pretty much sucked. Slash's Snakepit, meh.
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I completely agree and am glad to see that someone else does. As much as I love Slash, he hasn't exactly proved himself post-GNR.

However the situation is sorta the same thing with Izzy, his solo stuff has been hit or miss but there's a couple of greats in there (and regardless been much more productive than Slash).

I'd be very interested to hear what Axl/Izzy could create today though. I don't know what Axl's plan is (of if he even has one) but Izzy played with the new lineup in 2006, so it's entirely possible that he rejoins for a little while.
Then again, Izzy never liked touring big venues, he always liked the small bowls and dives like his favorite punk bands. So, who knows how that'd work.
 
So I played "If the World" for one of my friends and he immediately said something to the effect of, "This sounds like the background music that they have for softcore pornos."

Now, whenever I hear it I can't get the image of a dude thrusting into a chick out of my head. :lol
 
Lets not get crazy guys. The new GNR stuff is good. But don't think for a second Axl could have made some of thsoe old GNR songs without Slash. His bluesey style guitar solos are as much a part of the old Guns as Axl's scream. And no... Someone else could'nt have done it like he did. He made the guitar sing in a way that not one out of the 3 new guitarists are able to. Now i'm not saying Slash is better than Buckethead or vice versa, i'm just saying they both have their styles, and Slash's style was an integral part of the old guns. Not to mention he wrote alot of the catchy riffs GNR had back in the day, and you CAN tell that the memorable hum along riffs are missing on Chinese Democracy.
 
twinturbo2 said:
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8958754&publicUserId=4549175
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If I detach myself from everything Buckethead and/or Guns N' Roses, "Chinese Democracy" is still a great record on many merits. Time will tell how it's seen over the years, but one thing is for sure:

That blog entry was complete fucking garbage. Just another musically uneducated shit talker doing what they do best.

Hitman said:
Lets not get crazy guys. The new GNR stuff is good. But don't think for a second Axl could have made some of thsoe old GNR songs without Slash.
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I don't think anyone is trying to diminish Slash's work in GN'R, merely pointing out that a lot Slash's great moments were done under Axl's direction and also that Izzy Stradlin had a larger influence in the band than Slash.

Don't get me wrong, Slash had some fabulous moments on "Appetite" but Izzy gave that record it's pair of balls. So basically we're saying that Slash had some awesome contributions whereas Izzy was the one that laid the foundation of the record.
 
Buckethead said:
I don't think anyone is trying to diminish Slash's work in GN'R, merely pointing out that a lot Slash's great moments were done under Axl's direction and also that Izzy Stradlin had a larger influence in the band than Slash.
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Amen to this. What has Slash done outside of GnR that is great? VR is passable at best. Slash's guitar was elevated by Axl's singing and vice versa, but IMHO Axl stands much better on his own.

There is a lot on Chinese Democracy that can be considered great. I personally like the entire album top to bottom. I don't strongly dislike any song and absolutely LOVE many of them: Better, Street of Dreams, There Was a Time, Catcher in the Rye, Riad, Sorry, IRS, Prostitute. And as pointed out this list of mine is completely different han everyone else's- a sign of a quality disc.
 
Since everyone's doing it, here are my top 3 tracks off CD:

There Was a Time
This is Love
Better

But yeah, outside of a couple tracks, I pretty much love every song on this album.
 
Don't really mean to just jump in an trash (too late) but I really found this album to... well... suck ass. It just feels like I've been time warped to the early nineties and am expecting Kurt fucking Cobain to have some surprise cameo or something.

Brilliant marketing though.
 
dead souls said:
The only irreplaceable person in Guns IMO, beside Axl of course, was Izzy. Izzy is a great songwriter and his solo albums are pretty damn great.
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Izzy's first solo album, Izzy Stradlin and the Ju-Ju Hounds was fantastic. The best solo album by anyone out of GnR that I've heard (including Velvet Revolver and Slash's Snakepit), though I never really listened to Duff's stuff. After that, I kind of fell out of touch with his solo output, but general consensus is that his first one was the best and the rest are so-so.

I'd still put Chinese Democracy well above Izzy's first album though, but they are radically different in style.
 
I just got the album. (Listening right now)
Nice one. Axl is singing like a mangod . awesome :lol
 
Buckethead said:
If I detach myself from everything Buckethead and/or Guns N' Roses, "Chinese Democracy" is still a great record on many merits. Time will tell how it's seen over the years, but one thing is for sure:

That blog entry was complete fucking garbage. Just another musically uneducated shit talker doing what they do best.



I don't think anyone is trying to diminish Slash's work in GN'R, merely pointing out that a lot Slash's great moments were done under Axl's direction and also that Izzy Stradlin had a larger influence in the band than Slash.

Don't get me wrong, Slash had some fabulous moments on "Appetite" but Izzy gave that record it's pair of balls. So basically we're saying that Slash had some awesome contributions whereas Izzy was the one that laid the foundation of the record.
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If you could prove that Izzy had a larger influcence in the band than Slash, I'd like to see that. Izzy's like Randy Rhoads, he gets way more credit than he deserves.
 
I really like this album. Some of you should try listening to things without expectations or preconceptions in mind. You know, drop the bullshit basically.
 
Angry Grimace said:
If you could prove that Izzy had a larger influcence in the band than Slash, I'd like to see that.
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Liner notes for one.

He wrote the majority of the music and lyrics and Axl himself has told numerous about how he and Izzy were just shooting the shit and something Izzy said made him think of a great line or melody.

But all that "punky, rawness" people complain about Chinese Democracy not having, that's all Stradlin territory.
 
Angry Grimace said:
If you could prove that Izzy had a larger influcence in the band than Slash, I'd like to see that. Izzy's like Randy Rhoads, he gets way more credit than he deserves.
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He definitely contributed more from a songwriting standpoint, in terms of who's credited on more songs. Whether or not that outweighs the all the outstanding solos and lead playing that Slash contributed is debatable.

I'm a firm believer in looking at solo output as a barometer of relative songwriting ability within a band... By that measure, Axl (going off Chinese Democracy) > Izzy > Slash > Duff.
 
Slash's playing can be "felt" in the music. He's not an exceptional guitarist (in fact, I'm probably better than him) but his phrasing was just so right and his lead work was memorable.

Chinese Democracy doesn't have a single standout guitar work to my mind, even though Buckethead is a way better guitarist than Slash. Slash made good songs great, Buckethead can't do that.

Also, Izzy was core of GNR writing, as others have mentioned.
 
DarkJediKnight said:
Chinese Democracy doesn't have a single standout guitar work to my mind, even though Buckethead is a way better guitarist than Slash. Slash made good songs great, Buckethead can't do that.
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Well, the end solos on Better (Finck) and on T.W.A.T. (Bucket) are awesome and examples of elevating the song to a higher level. But you're right in that the GnR albums with Slash had more memorable solos/leads on the whole.
Also, Izzy was core of GNR writing, as others have mentioned.
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It's a tough call, the credits are remarkably diverse if you look back on the four studio albums. Sometimes Izzy didn't contribute to their biggest songs at all (Welcome to the Jungle, Civil War, Yesterdays, Garden of Eden, November Rain).

By contrast, Rose is on every big hit in some capacity except for "Patience."
 
RECORD execs are fuming after Guns N' Roses frontman Axl Rose went missing for two months before the release of the band's comeback album - but word is he has been trying to get the original line-up back together for a world tour.

Bosses at label Geffen are blaming Rose for the disappointing sales of Chinese Democracy - which took 15 years to make and cost at least $30 million - after vanished and refused to promote it.

They actually failed to make contact with him from the day he delivered the final cut.

But the star has reportedly been trying to get the original gang to reunite.

Guitarist Izzy Stradlin is keen to see the original members back together - while Slash's involvement in current band Velvet Revolver looks shaky after they were dropped by their label.
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http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24741108-5012327,00.html
!!!
 
$30Million to make this album? Yikes!!



They'd need to sell 2,307,692 CDs @ $13.00 a pop, just to recoup that money.

I guess he don't care if the label don't make a dime off the CDs.

Artists touring for personal profit FTMFW!!!!




Rose wins again... Rose wins again!!!!
 
Chinese Democracy debuts at #4 in the US, selling 254K according to Hits Daily Double. That's actually fewer albums than Velvet Revolver's debut's opening week. Wonder if Geffen is rethinking the whole Best Buy exclusive idea right about now.
 
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