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Official Jan 2008 NPD Thread - HW Shortages + Spectacular SW

TJ Spyke

Member
DeadGzuz said:
A. Yes, you get what you pay for sometimes. Of course people are paying $250 for an overclocked GC with waggle.

B. True, they suck, point?

C. No, Wii shares many shovelware titles with the PS2 now. Grats.

You can keep your fugly SD shovelware, I'll enjoy real next gen and gladly pay $10 more for it. The fact that all the good Wii games could (and have in some cases like Zelda) been released on a $50 GC and played as well is amazing.

Wow, trolling must be a very enjoyable thing for you.

A. The so-called overclocked GameCube is dominating this gen and it's clearly the industry leader.

B. No more than Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 games. Try playing Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition, Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3, Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbarosa's Treasure among others.

C. Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 have plenty of shovelware titles too. Also, whether you like it or not, these shovelware titles usually get good sales.

I have nothing against Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. They both have good games. You on the other hand seem to prefer trolling rather than admit that the Wii is a great system with great games, maybe upset because you don't like that Nintendo seems to know what most people want better than you do.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Kuramu said:
Didn't you see the chart? Wii is actually going to start selling negative numbers of units in 2011. 360 as well.

bday-isuppli.gif


that guy seems to be getting smarter all the time. now he can draw elaborate charts


seriously, you guys have run down that moniker -- it doesn't even hold true to what the original was
 

avatar299

Banned
Agent Icebeezy said:
I don't see it because the average Wii purchaser is probably atypical to a person that bought a PS3 or and Xbox 360. For people like us, we look at a console and we want a lot of games, spread out over a period of time to 'justify' our purchase. Wii buyers aren't like that. The Wii is like Monopoly or Uno cards. You might play it a few times a month, but you have one. Wii Sports can last someone for an eternity. Everytime my stepfather comes to my house, he plays Wii Golf. It amazes me how many people downplay this.
In other words Nintendo is fucked when they release a new console.

Hell i can already see the threads
 
davepoobond said:
that guy seems to be getting smarter all the time. now he can draw elaborate charts


seriously, you guys have run down that moniker -- it doesn't even hold true to what the original was

The new one is just as accurate.

Only a retard would actually think that the 360 and Wii would decrease in LTD during 2011.
 

puck1337

Member
It's nuts that Wii is doing this without Nintendo pulling any of the traditional levers. No price drop. No 3rd party megaton. No wild bundles, alternate colours, or free taco giveaways.

And the later they can wait to pull those levers, the scarier they become.
 

Pachael

Member
puck1337 said:
It's nuts that Wii is doing this without Nintendo pulling any of the traditional levers. No price drop. No 3rd party megaton. No wild bundles, alternate colours, or free taco giveaways.

And the later they can wait to pull those levers, the scarier they become.

That's one thing with the Wii's longevity, which some have picked up but others are rejoicing in the 'tide comeback' instead. There hasn't been ONE price drop for the Wii, AND there's a shortage in production. Even then, it's topping the charts! Mind bogglin'.
 

Tideas

Banned
puck1337 said:
It's nuts that Wii is doing this without Nintendo pulling any of the traditional levers. No price drop. No 3rd party megaton. No wild bundles, alternate colours, or free taco giveaways.

And the later they can wait to pull those levers, the scarier they become.

err? $250 is like almost casual price right there. The PS2 stayed at $300 until the xbox and gamecube came out I think
 

HyperionX

Member
puck1337 said:
It's nuts that Wii is doing this without Nintendo pulling any of the traditional levers. No price drop. No 3rd party megaton. No wild bundles, alternate colours, or free taco giveaways.

And the later they can wait to pull those levers, the scarier they become.

Because it's going on hype. Without that hype, Wii could be $99 and not sell (just like GC).
 

vanguardian1

poor, homeless and tasteless
HyperionX said:
Because it's going on hype. Without that hype, Wii could be $99 and not sell (just like GC).

Is it really so impossible to concieve that people may actually just want the system and the games?
 

Threi

notag
HyperionX said:
Because it's going on hype. Without that hype, Wii could be $99 and not sell (just like GC).

But it's not. So what are ya gunna do about it?

I mean besides bitch on a gaming forum.

You could scream into your pillow at nights, that might help :)
 

DeadGzuz

Banned
TJ Spyke said:
I have nothing against Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. They both have good games. You on the other hand seem to prefer trolling rather than admit that the Wii is a great system with great games, maybe upset because you don't like that Nintendo seems to know what most people want better than you do.

So if you don't like another's opinion just call them a troll over and over. You are clever.

Sorry I don't see any real value in the Wii. The game are essentially GC games, some use the waggle, but most don't need it. Sure they have some critically successful games like Galaxy, Zelda, RE4, etc. but all of them could have been GC games (some were) and saved everyone $200 bucks. Just because they made a fad with old folks and Wii sports and sold a bunch of consoles does not make it worth $250. Movies like Titanic make a bundle of money, are you going to argue Titanic is the end all to movies?

If you can argue the system is good while ignoring sales data and make the case the game would not work on the GC (Galaxy would, Zelda did, RE4 did, etc.), then you might have some merit. At $99 I can see it's value as a Wii Sports and VC box, at $250 I'm scratching my head.
 
DeadGzuz said:
So if you don't like another's opinion just call them a troll over and over. You are clever.

Sorry I don't see any real value in the Wii. The game are essentially GC games, some use the waggle, but most don't need it. Sure they have some critically successful games like Galaxy, Zelda, RE4, etc. but all of them could have been GC games (some were) and saved everyone $200 bucks. Just because they made a fad with old folks and Wii sports and sold a bunch of consoles does not make it worth $250. Movies like Titanic make a bundle of money, are you going to argue Titanic is the end all to movies?

If you can argue the system is good while ignoring sales data and make the case the game would not work on the GC (Galaxy would, Zelda did, RE4 did, etc.), then you might have some merit. At $99 I can see it's value as a Wii Sports and VC box, at $250 I'm scratching my head.

:lol

That's like saying Gears of War, Halo 3, Mass Effect could have been xbox titles. They could've, but they were better for being on 360.

Metroid Prime 3, for example, is an excellent game that could have been on Gamecube. But it was on Wii because of the controls, which are superior to any console FPS game ever made.

So, basically, your point is lame.
 

Tideas

Banned
MWS Natural said:
List Warz? Really? 360 vs. Wii regarding shovelware?
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I don't think the point is to which one has more shovelware, it's what PS360wii said about how MS has such an awesome certification process that weed out all shovelware
 
Tideas said:
I don't think the point is to which one has more shovelware, it's what PS360wii said about how MS has such an awesome certification process that weed out all shovelware
Bad games =! shovelware imo. Red Steele is a bad game, Carvinal Games is shovelware. I would never say 360 doesn't have it's fair share of either but to compare it to the Wii is going a bit far.
 

fernoca

Member
DeadGzuz said:
So if you don't like another's opinion just call them a troll over and over. You are clever.

Sorry I don't see any real value in the Wii. The game are essentially GC games, some use the waggle, but most don't need it. Sure they have some critically successful games like Galaxy, Zelda, RE4, etc. but all of them could have been GC games (some were) and saved everyone $200 bucks. Just because they made a fad with old folks and Wii sports and sold a bunch of consoles does not make it worth $250. Movies like Titanic make a bundle of money, are you going to argue Titanic is the end all to movies?

If you can argue the system is good while ignoring sales data and make the case the game would not work on the GC (Galaxy would, Zelda did, RE4 did, etc.), then you might have some merit. At $99 I can see it's value as a Wii Sports and VC box, at $250 I'm scratching my head.
avatar_1500.gif
avatar_1500.gif
avatar_1500.gif
 

donny2112

Member
MWS Natural said:
Carvinal Games is shovelware.

Carnival Games is not shovelware. It apparently doesn't appeal to you, but that doesn't mean that it is a worthless game without merit. It is a great design and concept considering who it is aimed at. Execution may not have been perfect, but you just said we weren't discussing "bad" games.

Shovelware is what Ubisoft did at the Wii launch, i.e. seek out developers with older/bad games and get them to quickly port them to the Wii to make launch. GT Pro Series, Monster 4x4, Far Cry. That's shovelware. Just shovelling games onto a system without concern for execution to try to make a quick buck. A game designed from the ground up for a system and successfully marketed to a specific portion of its audience would be hard-pressed to be defined as shovelware, in my opinion.
 

Neo C.

Member
donny2112 said:
Yes, they will be crossed. Not likely in 2008, though.
Yet the gap seems pretty stable (around 5 million). Assuming the PS3 is doing better, Nintendo needs to sell significantly more than last year. We don't know yet, if Nintendo wants to gear up the production, sometimes I think Iwata wants to stay on 1.8 million monthly.
 

pswii60

Member
Tideas said:
and we caught our first 360 fanboy

This is great. I was accused of being a PS3 fanboy just 3 weeks ago in a Burnout Paradise thread I created. Great selective posting.

Actually, if you take a step back and stop trying to 'fanboy' everything up, in a world where you're one extreme or the other, you'll realise that I was merely trying to point out a reason why MS would not want shovelware on their system.

And by shovelware, I'm not talking crap games, I'm referring to games that were never intended to be any good. Games on a shoestring where they literally just want a box on a shelf, and do exactly just enough for that to happen. Games like Ninjabread Man (there are countless loads more looking at IGN), or for example on PS1/2 you had stuff like London Racer. It just cloggs up precious shelf space that could be better utilised by the awesomeness of Z&W.
 

D.Lo

Member
Neo C. said:
Yet the gap seems pretty stable (around 5 million). Assuming the PS3 is doing better, Nintendo needs to sell significantly more than last year. We don't know yet, if Nintendo wants to gear up the production, sometimes I think Iwata wants to stay on 1.8 million monthly.
Well the Wii gained in non-holiday months last year, and (possibly) lost a small amount of ground due to shortages as the holidays approached. So it pretty much hangs on Nintendo's supply starting around September.

What will PS360 sell in 2008? They sold about 17 million combined in 2007 which included a bumper PAL PS3 launch with heaps of stock, price drops for each and Halo 3 for 360. If they sell around the same in 2008 (losing the above advantages but gaining others like GTA4), then the Wii only needs to sell about what Nintendo are currently shipping to take over - 22 million, or 1.83 million a month. Even a small increase to 2.2 million Wiis produced a month would make it very close for the end of 2008 IMO.
 

Neo C.

Member
I believe the PS3 will sell significantly better than last year and 360 about the same level. Both combined should top last year's 17 million. Some price drops may help.
 

ziran

Member
Relix said:
My analysis is simple... 360 is more of a hardcore machine, PS3 has brand name and supposedly 2008 is its year, while Wii... is a gamble.

I personally see PS3 edging out the 360. The Wii will lose steam down the road, though it will regain strength with Brawl, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii and anything else that comes, enough to keep it #1 for a wide margin. (Worldwide)

2008:
1) Wii
2) PS3
3) 360

2009 looks harder to predict. But, once again Wii will lose momentum, aided possibly by another price cut, though I expect many fuckawesome games for it in 09, since Third parties will get the hang and stop porting PS2, PSP games by then an actually develop something. I also think Animal Crossing and Zelda Wii will be released. Xbox 360 will see a flat year, but I cannot predict this since I have no clue what games are coming. Comparing sales of previous generations and its momentum... to me it will once again lose, this time by a wider margin. For PS3, it will keep the momentum from MGS4, and possibly FFXIII will be released by then, at some point. Price cuts, Blu Ray movies, and fixing issues with the XMB will give it quite a victory over 360. In the US the tide will be turned, and we should see PS3 outselling the 360

2009:
1) Wii
2) PS3
3) 360

And 2010 is up in the air, though I really expect Wii 2 by then. Xbox 720 will come by 2011 and PS4... well, no clue.

- - - - - - - - -

So yeah, that's the analysis I have done, following recent trends and stuff. By the end... Wii will win, followed by PS3 and 360 and I mean WORLDWIDE sales overall. I think the 360 will edge out the PS3 in US by 2010.
I see a slowdown for PS3, and an upturn for Wii, come 2010. The current, and soon to be, releases on these systems are based on what PS2 and GC were doing 2005/6, the releases around 2010 will be based on what PS3 and Wii are doing now and have been doing over the last year.

Contrary to Sony's position, which has always been nonsense because realistically the market decides how long a shelf life a system has not the manufacturer, by the time 2010 hits PS3 could be in a similar position to GC in 2005.


Neo C. said:
Yet the gap seems pretty stable (around 5 million). Assuming the PS3 is doing better, Nintendo needs to sell significantly more than last year. We don't know yet, if Nintendo wants to gear up the production, sometimes I think Iwata wants to stay on 1.8 million monthly.
We do. In the recent Q&A with Iwata at Gamespot, he said Nintendo will work hard to ensure an increase in production of Wii. This year they want to have more supply for current markets and expand into new territories:
GS: What are your plans for expanding into new regions?

SI: I'm sad to say that last year, production couldn't even keep up with Japan, US, and Europe's demands. The scarcity of Wii units in the US and Europe is particularly serious. This is a result of not being able to build up stock at all over the summer due to the consistently active demand for the Wii throughout the year. If we had branched out into new markets under these circumstances, we wouldn't have been able to meet demand. That's why the expansion into new regions will take place this year.

GS: Do you have any specific plans for timing and which regions you'll be marketing to?

SI: We feel that it's better for the sales regions, release dates, and other details to be announced directly in those local markets, so they'll be unveiled locally one by one. One thing I will say, though, is that the year's end is the busiest period for video game products, and the time when the most units are moved. Should the timing coincide, it will be difficult for production to meet the initial demands succeeding the launch, so it will hopefully happen earlier in the year.

GS: You mentioned you were approaching the Chinese market at a corporate management policy briefing last October.

SI: I'm afraid that the statement I made there about China has not been correctly reported. I want to elaborate what I meant to say: At Nintendo we hope that the Wii, which has been accepted by people of all ages as a source of healthy fun, would also become available to Chinese families in the near future. In order that this can happen, Nintendo will work hard to ensure we increase production of the Wii, and definitely comply with the laws and regulations of the Chinese government.


EDIT-
65K for NMH is excellent! Didn't expect it to sell anywhere near that well. With 500K ww a possibilty if it also performs well in Europe, this is a really positive thing for Suda 51.
 

Neo C.

Member
ziran said:
We do. In the recent Q&A with Iwata at Gamespot, he said Nintendo will work hard to ensure an increase in production of Wii. This year they want to have more supply for current markets and expand into new territories:
God, and I read this Q&A few days ago, yet can't remember this statement.:lol
I was still thinking about their last conference back in January (don't know anymore the name of the Nintendo guy).
 

DrXym

Member
Some interesting comment on blu-ray.com from an insider:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=31887&page=13

Yeah, I definitely agree on this point, Toshiba has had very poor PR. The talk coming out of Toshiba a week before CES was that they had WB, Fox and MS sewn up and committed to HD DVD. Obviously this wasn't true and anyone with any sense could have seen that, like I have said, Fox have never had any intentions of releasing on HD DVD, ever. The reason for their PR problems after that was everything was geared towards an HD DVD winners party, and celebrating MS's decision to release a HD DVD X360 to replace the Elite (which is why the Elite is so scarce these days, production actually stopped while they waited for an announcement on an HD DVD enabled X360). Obviously none of that happened and WB were basically always going to go with Blu-ray, there had never been any chance of WB falling on the other side of the fence. Toshiba had to change everything at the last minute, execs went back to Japan, Jodi Sally dealt with the press (which is a terrible idea in itself given her ineptitude) and now we are where we are.

Sort of confirms what seems was the most likely reason for an Elite shortage.
 

GottiDC

Banned
wow, this wouldhappen at the begging of the year too, when er body says ps3 will shine in 08. thats a good show
please wit the shortages wit ms, thats just damage control
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
GottiDC said:
wow, this wouldhappen at the begging of the year too, when er body says ps3 will shine in 08. thats a good show
please wit the shortages wit ms, thats just damage control

Oh jesus you're back :lol
 

Zerachiel

Member
ComputerNerd said:
Software companies don't give a rats ass about tie ratios. Why should they? There's only one thing they care about. How much their game will sell.

Would they be stupid enough to put a project on a console with a 5 million user base, and sell 500K units (for a 10% attach rate), rather than a console with a 100 million user base, and sell 2 million? (a 2% attach rate) Not counting things like development costs, the answer should be clear. Unless the CEO wants to be fired, he'll put the game on the console that will generate sales of 2 million units.

Software companies use sales stats to determine how much their games will sell.

As for the question of why would a 3rd party put a game on the Wii instead of 360/PS3/PC, well, I don't see why they can't make a Wii version along with a 360/PS3/PC version. But if it has to be on one or the other, they'll determine whether they think the Wii version would sell better than the 360, PS3, and PC versions combined. While also accounting for development costs. When (or if), the Wii has sold more than the 360 and PS3 combined, we may see some 3rd party titles moved over.

It's hard to say though. Like I said earlier, why not put it on all 4?

That's true, but I still think tie ratios are important for future predictions. Let's say you've got a project in development that's going to launch in late 2009. It has been speculated that PS3 owners do not buy as much software as 360 owners. If this is the case, then even if one believes that the PS3 is set to reduce the gap in installed base between itself and the 360 worldwide, or even surpass the 360, in those two years of development, it may still be the smart move to lead on the 360, or accept moneyhats to keep it exclusive, since the sales of your PS3 version will still be less than the sales of your 360 version. On the other hand, if you believe that PS3 owners buy software at about the same rate as other console owners, your thinking will be different. The most reliable way of divining this information is through tie ratio, though as has been mentioned many times in this thread, it's not completely accurate.

HyperionX said:
Because it's going on hype. Without that hype, Wii could be $99 and not sell (just like GC).

Is it so impossible to believe that a lot of people, including core gamers, really want to play Wii sports?

DeadGzuz said:
So if you don't like another's opinion just call them a troll over and over. You are clever.

Sorry I don't see any real value in the Wii. The game are essentially GC games, some use the waggle, but most don't need it. Sure they have some critically successful games like Galaxy, Zelda, RE4, etc. but all of them could have been GC games (some were) and saved everyone $200 bucks. Just because they made a fad with old folks and Wii sports and sold a bunch of consoles does not make it worth $250. Movies like Titanic make a bundle of money, are you going to argue Titanic is the end all to movies?

If you can argue the system is good while ignoring sales data and make the case the game would not work on the GC (Galaxy would, Zelda did, RE4 did, etc.), then you might have some merit. At $99 I can see it's value as a Wii Sports and VC box, at $250 I'm scratching my head.

I don't really care if the game could have been done on a gamecube, as long as they're fun. If they're good games, I don't really give a damn. I'm not really a graphics whore, so I'd be fine with Halo 3 on the Xbox, or Ratchet and Clank future on the PS2. At any rate, I concur with another poster that, although the game could have been done on previous hardware, waggle often makes the experience better. RE4 Wii, MP3, and Zack and Wiki benefited as much from waggle as Halo 3 did from increased graphical power.

As for long range predictions, this year looks considerably better than the last for the PS3, and considering that they edged the 360 out by about a million last year WW, that's good news indeed. I'd expect them to run about even with the 360, maybe 5-10% lower, for the rest of the year here in the states, while continuing their victories in Japanese and European markets. They'll make up a couple million on that deficit this year, and should pass the 360 WW LTD sometime in mid 2009.

Of course, anything can happen. This is assuming status quo, but price drops and other random factors can come into play. After all, last January I wouldn't have predicted this at all, with the 360 having such a huge price advantage, and being in a much better position to price drop, but the RROD warranty billion dollar fiasco rather put the kibosh on that.
 

squatingyeti

non-sanctioned troll
davepoobond said:
that guy seems to be getting smarter all the time. now he can draw elaborate charts


seriously, you guys have run down that moniker -- it doesn't even hold true to what the original was

YES it does! Just because you read some retard article that doesn't include the chart, doesn't mean it's not an iSuppli chart. You should read the ORIGINAL article that includes that very chart. iSuppli, does in fact, use that chart and shows decreasing LTD.
 

Jokeropia

Member
pswii60 said:
Actually, if you take a step back and stop trying to 'fanboy' everything up, in a world where you're one extreme or the other, you'll realise that I was merely trying to point out a reason why MS would not want shovelware on their system.

And by shovelware, I'm not talking crap games, I'm referring to games that were never intended to be any good. Games on a shoestring where they literally just want a box on a shelf, and do exactly just enough for that to happen.
And do you think games like Yaris, Pimp My Ride and Cabela's Trophy Bucks were meant to be good?
 

DrXym

Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Not really. Premiums have been very short in supply also.

I don't see why that isn't a symptom of the same issue. If MS constrains supply of the Elite, then more Premiums might get sold. They might even have reduced production of Premiums to leave a nice open space for an HD DVD model to slot into. Except of course the new model never happened.

I would love to see what the new model looked like, if it was MS branded or Toshiba branded.
 

DrXym

Member
Psychotext said:
Is "insider" just a more dignified way of writing "fanboy"?

No, there is an insider section on blu-ray.com for actual verified industry insiders.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61

Penton-Man, MaxPower, paidgeek and some others are bonafide. Penton-Man was the one who strongly hinted at all of last week's bad news for HD DVD several days before it went public. Penton-Man & MaxPower seem to know each other.
 

DrXym

Member
Psychotext said:
Oh absolutely, same as in a few AV forums on the net... but lets be honest, if I'm working for blu-ray and posting my opinions on blu-ray as an insider then I'm likely to be just ever so slightly biased.

Unless I hated the company I worked for and wanted it to fail, which is unlikely.

I don't see the bias in this comment. Him saying MS has shortages because it stopped production for an HD DVD model is not an unreasonable explanation of events. It hardly boosts the PS3 to say that the only time it beat the 360 sales was when Microsoft had genuine supply problems.
 
DrXym said:
I don't see the bias in this comment. Him saying MS has shortages because it stopped production for an HD DVD model is not an unreasonable explanation of events.
Has very little to do with the PS3 / 360 and much more to do with blu-ray / hd dvd. Very much a "look how screwed the hd dvd camp is, MS was even making a 360 with a hd dvd drive which they had to scrap" post.

I just don't buy this "ultimate" 360 story that people keep spouting... especially given it's been discussed since the hd dvd addon was released.
 

J-Rzez

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
And the Pro shortage? Were those going to be Blu-Ray or UMD?

:lol

In all seriousness, I'm going bank on a mobo-redesign of some sort. They just have to have something to resolve the hardware issues as people with the "lower wattage" units are having issues as well. It's been going on too long I think.
 
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