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[Rolf NB]

When it makes sense for the game they're making, but assuming that a game is better automagically because of high-end 3D graphics is just as silly as assuming a game is better without them.

Even if it's the same game, just rendered in HD, that's still a tangible advantage that you'll happily take if you have the means to do so.
E.g. last year's Dynasty Warriors games (DW Gundam and DW6) do not seem to have anything in the way of detail or scope that seems to go above what a Wii could pull off. And that's not even hyperbole.
But on the HD systems it runs in nice, clean high res while being locked at a constant 60fps. If I had the choice of playing something like that on either a PS3 or a Wii, I'd be silly if I chose the Wii version. Ditto for Lego Star Wars. Why not choose the version that runs at a higher res? If it is even just marginally more attractive, it's still an advantage.

Developers seem to be hellbent on making only big-budget, super-detailed, super-epic games for the HD platforms. I sometimes wish more of them would just use the machines to render their lower-budget game in a higher res, with a nicer framerate.

Of course if you only have either machine, the choice would have to take the extra cost into account. But that doesn't mean that there is no advantage at all to be had with even the mere switch to an HD resolution from SD, it's more a question of whether or not you think the advantage is large enough to justify the cost.

 

[poppabk]

Just because some games like Braid are both creative AND low tech does not mean that all creative games can be made with lower tech.

I mean, seriously, is this what we have been reduced to in defending the Wii? Claiming its low-budget tech actually inspires more creativity?

I think it's pretty obvious that big budget devs clearly are not interested in developing big name games for the Wii, otherwise we would have actually heard about some of these games by now! Take a look at the upcoming slate of Wii games from 3rd party studios; the platform is the domain of loads of shovelware. If the Wii is supposed to inspire creativity, where is it?

I am arguing that one person or a small team of people have more control over their artistic vision than a team of hundreds all working on small parts of a larger whole. Working as part of a large team has to result in compromises.

 

[Vinci]

Developers seem to be hellbent on making only big-budget, super-detailed, super-epic games for the HD platforms. I sometimes wish more of them would just use the machines to render their lower-budget game in a higher res, with a nicer framerate.

Of course if you only have either machine, the choice would have to take the extra cost into account. But that doesn't mean that there is no advantage at all to be had with even the mere switch to an HD resolution from SD, it's more a question of whether or not you think the advantage is large enough to justify the cost.

These two paragraphs reflect my point of view on it as well. I think the cost inherent in some of this is unnecessary depending upon what these people come up with. And history has shown us that limitations, developers realizing, "Okay, that idea won't work - so what the fuck am I gonna do now?" has led to some of the best artistic achievements not only in this field but elsewhere as well.

I mean, seriously, is this what we have been reduced to in defending the Wii? Claiming its low-budget tech actually inspires more creativity?

Not that it inspires 'more,' but that it could inspire directions developers might otherwise not have considered going. Ones that might, in fact, be better overall.

If the Wii is supposed to inspire creativity, where is it?

That's an excellent question: Ask them.

 

[Zoe]

I am arguing that one person or a small team of people have more control over their artistic vision than a team of hundreds all working on small parts of a larger whole. Working as part of a large team has to result in compromises.

A small team isn't limited to working on lower-end systems.

 

[Opiate]

Developers seem to be hellbent on making only big-budget, super-detailed, super-epic games for the HD platforms. I sometimes wish more of them would just use the machines to render their lower-budget game in a higher res, with a nicer framerate.

This is an interesting question, and I think its a fate both Sony and Microsoft brought on themselves.

Both of them have heavily marketed their products, and their marketing has consistently relied on the raw power -- the potential -- of their machines. They have been positioned as very powerful, high end devices.

This sort of marketing has helped these machines gain a veritable monopoly on the Halos and Heavenly Swords of the world, but it also strongly discourages development of smaller, lower budget games: as a general rule (of which you and I are apparently exceptions), the audience they've cultivated didn't buy in to simply play a PS2 game in higher res.

 

[Barrett2]

I am arguing that one person or a small team of people have more control over their artistic vision than a team of hundreds all working on small parts of a larger whole. Working as part of a large team has to result in compromises.

In this regard, I generally agree with you. Hopefully via PSN, XBLA & WiiWare we will continue to see more products developed by small teams that can showcase a wider variety of creativity than we would otherwise get from 'big budget' games. However, i would prefer to experience these games on my HD machines, where in addition to these games I can also play games that maximize the available tech.

 

[onipex]

The problem is price and value. The cost of Live, the extra cost for wireless, lack of a BD drive all weigh into consumers perception of the device.
I have a difficult time recommending the 360 at this point to anyone who hasn't bought a next gen machine because of the price and all the other things you get on the PS3, even if it's game library pales in comparison to the 360.

I think you are over valuing the PS3 by thinking the average consumer really cares about blu-ray. Blu-ray has not taken off outside of PS3 and wouldn’t even be successful without the PS3. The value of it is not as good as you think, because most consumers think DVD or upscaled DVD is good enough. As game consoles PS3 is more reliable and that gives it value over the 360, so to gamers it has more value. I agree with your other points.

Myth.
Everything's multiplatform. Almost all of the XBox 360's de-facto 3rd-party exclusives that released during its first year (before the PS3 was even out) have already been ported, or at least the series has since gone multiplatform with a sequel.

Even if almost everything is multiplatform it is not a myth. Every game was not ported. One of those happens a very high selling and popular games. The fact still remains that the library is getting better. The PS3 library is also getting better, but that is a given. The two are not equal on software sales though even with an almost equal install base (is it almost equal?). You can’t look at the sales of NCAA and SC4 and say the PS3 is now selling the same amount of software as the 360. I would wait until the Madden sales are out before that claim could be made. Even then the 360 was selling more software than the PS3 was at this time in it’s life.

 

[Nafai1123]

It means that the PS3 had a higher attach rate but the 360 still sold more. Attach ratios are useless to that effect if you ignore the trends.

Won't developers look at those attach ratios to determine trends in the future? If the ps3 continues to catch up to the 360, it could very well be the ps3 version of games selling better in the future.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Won't developers look at those attach ratios to determine trends in the future? If the ps3 continues to catch up to the 360, it could very well be the ps3 version of games selling better in the future.

Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is, we don't know. We do know that the 360 ownership buys an inordinate amount of games. We do know that software attach rate for individual pieces of software does not grow linearly with userbase growth (for example, a game can do 4 million on a hardware base of 10 million easier than it can do 40 million on a hardware base of 100 million).

It's true that recent PS3 software has been less lopsided. Whether or not it'll ever sell better per se in the US will be unknown until the PS3 catches the 360 in US userbase. It's hard to say if that will ever happen. Certainly not with either console doing the numbers it is doing right now.

 

[poppabk]

A small team isn't limited to working on lower-end systems.

I'm not saying that having lower specs inspires creativity and art. I'm just saying that the most artistic and creative games are likely to come from small teams or individuals and that due to the man hours involved its unlikely that such a team can make maximum use of or need all the power available in a console like the PS2 never mind the 360/PS3.
The alternative is where a single individual has almost complete creative control (similar to a director) but that is not a situation where the artists will get the most chance to use their creativity.

 

[Nafai1123]

Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is, we don't know. We do know that the 360 ownership buys an inordinate amount of games. We do know that software attach rate for individual pieces of software does not grow linearly with userbase growth (for example, a game can do 4 million on a hardware base of 10 million easier than it can do 40 million on a hardware base of 100 million).

It's true that recent PS3 software has been less lopsided. Whether or not it'll ever sell better per se in the US will be unknown until the PS3 catches the 360 in US userbase. It's hard to say if that will ever happen. Certainly not with either console doing the numbers it is doing right now.

Agreed, these small differences in numbers month-to-month aren't going to do much. The real catch up is going to be played during the holidays. If the PS3 manages to continue outselling the 360 Aug-Dec, I could see them covering a lot of ground on the 360.

 

[Vinci]

If the PS3 manages to continue outselling the 360 Aug-Dec, I could see them covering a lot of ground on the 360.

Microsoft should beat them once GoW2 hits, along with the price drop. Anything before that time? Yeah, Sony will take it.

 

[Nafai1123]

Microsoft should beat them once GoW2 hits, along with the price drop. Anything before that time? Yeah, Sony will take it.

I'm not really convinced that Gears 2 will boost sales all that much. Sure it will sell huge, but unless it's bundled with the system, most people that will be buying it already have one. A price drop is a necessity, but I can't see Sony sitting idling by. Are they still manufacturing the 40 gigs? If so, the $399 80gig launches in September. I could see them announcing a $299 price point for the 40 gig around that time.

 

[FrankT]

Microsoft should beat them once GoW2 hits, along with the price drop. Anything before that time? Yeah, Sony will take it.

How in the world would Sony take it with the price point rumors for Sept. No chance, zero. Sept-Dec I see the 360 ahead and quite a bit for some of those months if those price point rumors become reality. The only close month maybe October, could go either way, other than that, neh.

 

[truly101]

This is an interesting question, and I think its a fate both Sony and Microsoft brought on themselves.

Both of them have heavily marketed their products, and their marketing has consistently relied on the raw power -- the potential -- of their machines. They have been positioned as very powerful, high end devices.

This sort of marketing has helped these machines gain a veritable monopoly on the Halos and Heavenly Swords of the world, but it also strongly discourages development of smaller, lower budget games: as a general rule (of which you and I are apparently exceptions), the audience they've cultivated didn't buy in to simply play a PS2 game in higher res.

Hasn't that attitude been around since the SNES and Genesis days, if not before? They've always marketed the technical prowess of their specific machine and how its cutting edge and superior to the competion. Sony and MS are still playing the same game that been going on for well over e decade, Nintendo opted for a different approach.

 

[Vinci]

How in the world would Sony take it with the price point rumors for Sept. No chance, zero. Sept-Dec I see the 360 ahead and quite a bit for some of those months if those price point rumors become reality.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I simply didn't explain it well. I meant that the price drop and GoW2 would keep 360 leading, but that the time before then (ie. August) would be taken by Sony.

Damn, I worded that horribly.

 

[jakncoke]

how long did it take last month for the top 20 to be released? perhaps we're not getting top 20 this month.

 

[bluheim]

Microsoft should beat them once GoW2 hits, along with the price drop.

Let's hope 360's shortages are over when GeOW2 launch.

 

[jonabbey]

Microsoft should beat them once GoW2 hits, along with the price drop. Anything before that time? Yeah, Sony will take it.

We'll see how much Sony pushes LittleBigPlanet. That could be a game changer if the gods smile upon MediaMolecule.

 

[wayward archer]

I'm not really convinced that Gears 2 will boost sales all that much. Sure it will sell huge, but unless it's bundled with the system, most people that will be buying it already have one. A price drop is a necessity, but I can't see Sony sitting idling by. Are they still manufacturing the 40 gigs? If so, the $399 80gig launches in September. I could see them announcing a $299 price point for the 40 gig around that time.

Sony is dropping the 40GB and will have just one SKU this holiday, a $399 80GB (without backwards compatability).

Smart move to just push one SKU but they will still not be reaching the sub $300 buyers yet.

 

[Oblivion]

Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is, we don't know. We do know that the 360 ownership buys an inordinate amount of games. We do know that software attach rate for individual pieces of software does not grow linearly with userbase growth (for example, a game can do 4 million on a hardware base of 10 million easier than it can do 40 million on a hardware base of 100 million).

It's true that recent PS3 software has been less lopsided. Whether or not it'll ever sell better per se in the US will be unknown until the PS3 catches the 360 in US userbase. It's hard to say if that will ever happen. Certainly not with either console doing the numbers it is doing right now.

Stump, I'm just curious. Completely random question (well mostly), but are you a math major by any chance? If so, what's the highest level you have accomplished?

 

[krzyspc]

We'll see how much Sony pushes LittleBigPlanet. That could be a game changer if the gods smile upon MediaMolecule.

Game changer? I seriously doubt that, I would bet on it, paypal 20 bucks.

 

[Rolf NB]

Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is, we don't know. We do know that the 360 ownership buys an inordinate amount of games. We do know that software attach rate for individual pieces of software does not grow linearly with userbase growth (for example, a game can do 4 million on a hardware base of 10 million easier than it can do 40 million on a hardware base of 100 million).

It's true that recent PS3 software has been less lopsided. Whether or not it'll ever sell better per se in the US will be unknown until the PS3 catches the 360 in US userbase. It's hard to say if that will ever happen. Certainly not with either console doing the numbers it is doing right now.

Data in this very thread (and other NPD threads before it) contradicts that knowledge of yours. Better call it a presumption.
You seem careful enough not to be optimistic about the PS3 before having numbers backing it up. Might as well apply the same care universally.

 

[Zoe]

Are they still manufacturing the 40 gigs? If so, the $399 80gig launches in September. I could see them announcing a $299 price point for the 40 gig around that time.

Doesn't seem like it. Then again there was supposedly an overall shortage last month, and look at how that ended up.

There should be clearances regardless though. The 20/60 ones dropped without there being substantial stock.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

The thing is, we don't know. We do know that the 360 ownership buys an inordinate amount of games.

I've been thinking; do we know this? Is the XBOX 360 fanbase a new phenomenon, that buys games at massive clip because of an inherent love for the system, or is it something else, say observers looking at a niche market existing unopposed? I'm starting to think the latter, especially since the introduction of the Wii as a force of nature has removed the absolute domination that the 360 was afforded only a year ago.

In fact, I would go so far as to assert that had the GameCube or XBOX existed under similar circumstances (i.e, a console that points to a niche audience running unopposed) we would see them perform like-minded numbers.

 

[Vinci]

Game changer? I seriously doubt that, I would bet on it, paypal 20 bucks.

I doubt it, but I certainly would like LBP to sell well. They've put a lot of work in that game.

 

[FrankT]

Data in this very thread (and other NPD threads before it) contradicts that knowledge of yours. Better call it a presumption.
You seem careful enough not to be optimistic about the PS3 before having numbers backing it up. Might as well apply the same care universally.

NPD info in this thread says the 360 has the highest attach rate for a console at this point in it's lifecycle. So yea, 360 owners are very much buying a lot of games regardless of what one or two games may or may not say of the entire picture. Nothing is contradicted in this picture whatsoever.

 

[wayward archer]

Data in this very thread (and other NPD threads before it) contradicts that knowledge of yours. Better call it a presumption.
You seem careful enough not to be optimistic about the PS3 before having numbers backing it up. Might as well apply the same care universally.

Looking back at the last 6 NPD threads I can't see anything that contradicts his statement.

 

[MechDX]

Won't developers look at those attach ratios to determine trends in the future? If the ps3 continues to catch up to the 360, it could very well be the ps3 version of games selling better in the future.

If attach rates were important than HD DVD won the HD format war.

 

[Karma]

Data in this very thread (and other NPD threads before it) contradicts that knowledge of yours. Better call it a presumption.
You seem careful enough not to be optimistic about the PS3 before having numbers backing it up. Might as well apply the same care universally.

:lol Oh boy. Are you saying the 360 does not sell tons of software. It`s tie ratio says otherwise.

 

[Oblivion]

I've been thinking; do we know this? Is the XBOX 360 fanbase a new phenomenon, that buys games at massive clip because of an inherent love for the system, or is it something else, say observers looking at a niche market existing unopposed?

Would one really call the 360 software situation a phenomenon, though? I mean, software sells great, sure enough. But is it really that surprising considering that the 360 seems to get 8-9 level games fairly often, with a bunch of hype behind them, and with usually superior versions (for multiplats)?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Would one really call the 360 software situation a phenomenon, though? I mean, software sells great, sure enough. But is it really that surprising considering that the 360 seems to get 8-9 level games fairly often, with a bunch of hype behind them, and with usually superior versions (for multiplats)?

phenomenon was more in reference to it being (allegedly) unprecedented, not surprising.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

LBP sales ban bets pls.

 

[FrankT]

LBP sales ban bets pls.

You first. :lol

 

[Vinci]

LBP sales ban bets pls.

Why would anyone take a ban bet on that game? When people call it a 'wild card,' it's no joke - there's no telling how it's going to sell.

 

[Opiate]

Hasn't that attitude been around since the SNES and Genesis days, if not before? They've always marketed the technical prowess of their specific machine and how its cutting edge and superior to the competion. Sony and MS are still playing the same game that been going on for well over e decade, Nintendo opted for a different approach.

Absolutely: I'm not sure if you're trying to argue with my post, but it largely confirms what I'm saying.

Companies have been selling their systems on "new, more powerful, more awesome!" technology since the dawn of the industry. Thus, it isn't a coincidence that we didn't see many SNES games with NES level graphics, PS1/N64 games with SNES level graphics, and so forth.

When you market any system based on its superior technology, games that do not harness that technology will likely be shunned by the audience it gathers. Therefore, they are rarely made.

 

[poppabk]

:lol Oh boy. Are you saying the 360 does not sell tons of software. It`s tie ratio says otherwise.

I think it is definitely over-exaggerated. The Wii (supposedly the uber casual console where people only play Wii sports) has an attach rate of roughly two less games than the 360. 7.9 to maybe 5.5 at the moment. Its a significant difference but not exactly worth the hyperbole. If I owned 5 games for a console and someone else owned 8 I wouldn't think it was an astronomical difference.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

I've been thinking; do we know this? Is the XBOX 360 fanbase a new phenomenon, that buys games at massive clip because of an inherent love for the system, or is it something else, say observers looking at a niche market existing unopposed? I'm starting to think the latter, especially since the introduction of the Wii as a force of nature has removed the absolute domination that the 360 was afforded only a year ago.

In fact, I would go so far as to assert that had the GameCube or XBOX existed under similar circumstances (i.e, a console that points to a niche audience running unopposed) we would see them perform like-minded numbers.

I agree. The 360 isn't breaking any records on the software front? It just had the honor of keeping PS3's seat warm and receiving all the benefits of the 'heir apparent'.

Do we have a legal comparison of PS2 software sales vs 360 vs Wii, launch aligned? Hell, even just shipment numbers?

 

[Nafai1123]

Doesn't seem like it. Then again there was supposedly an overall shortage last month, and look at how that ended up.

There should be clearances regardless though. The 20/60 ones dropped without there being substantial stock.

Sony must have something up their sleeves. Heres my prediction. If MS actually has the rumored price drop in Sept., Sony reveals they are dropping the 40 gig to $299 starting immediately. Then it turns out that they actually have millions of 40 gig units available for the holiday season bundled with Resistance 1 to coincide with R2. Thats what Sony should do.

 

[Private Hoffman]

I'm not taking a ban bet on LBP, but I predict it sells ~400k during its first NPD, but will have long legs.

 

[bigmakstudios]

When it makes sense for the game they're making, but assuming that a game is better automagically because of high-end 3D graphics is just as silly as assuming a game is better without them.

Honestly, at the risk of getting banned again, I just want to say that I think games have more to gain from better graphics and physics than using motion controls instead of buttons. In terms of pure game play, it's inarguable, as simply doing something different to initiate the same animations doesn't change anything at all, and since it's probably been the most often used feature of the Wii remote, and "waggle", or gestures that don't change depending on direction, speed, or other elements, seems to be what the Wii is most capable of doing in terms of motion recognition. It could detect those other variables, but I can't think of many instances where that has been pulled off effectively, as in, without lag or inaccuracy. Personally, I feel that even the most basic gesture recognition is always worse than button pressing, as there is always a chance that you could try to initiate another animation while a prior animation still hasn't finished, and it's really jarring when that happens with gestures, but with button pressing, your thumb never moves far from its original position anyway.

Of course, motion controls on Wii will become much better when Motion Plus comes around, but that's in Spring of 2009.

 

[[Nintex]]

Sony must have something up their sleeves. Heres my prediction. If MS actually has the rumored price drop in Sept., Sony reveals they are dropping the 40 gig to $299 starting immediately. Then it turns out that they actually have millions of 40 gig units available for the holiday season bundled with Resistance 1 to coincide with R2. Thats what Sony should do.

I'm sure their financial managers would be thrilled with such news, after all they made a wooping $51 million.

 

[Opiate]

I'm not taking a ban bet on LBP, but I predict it sells ~400k during its first NPD, but will have long legs.

That seems very reasonable to me.

 

[USD]

*scratches head* How'd I miss this thread yesterday? About what I expected though.

 

[ksamedi]

I doubt Little Big Planet will sell that much. It looks like it could bomb even though I wish the best for the title.

 

[Rolf NB]

:lol Oh boy. Are you saying the 360 does not sell tons of software. It`s tie ratio says otherwise.

Go ahead. Whenever you stop laughing, compute those tie ratios. Source data for two multiplat games is right here in this thread, and you won't have to go far to find more. Please share your results.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I hate responding to stuff so late but work was tough today...

I disagree completely. If anything (since Iwata has taken charge) they have now become considerably more straightforward with their deals and, to the dismay of many here, far too open for what software is allowed on their platforms. And if they DID try to control the 3rd party offerings that was released on their systems, they would be given a FAR harsher perspective than Sony or MS. And yet also Nintendo is, from what we've seen, doing far less of the "under-the-table" deals with developers that we are used to seeing from Sony and MS.

That's not what I was talking about at all. My post (I thought) was stating the obvious; that 3rd parties will never be as enthusiastic about supporting Nintendo as they are the other hardware developers because at the end of the day Nintendo is always going to be their biggest competitor in software. I won't say that they want to sabotage Nintendo (well maybe Ubi does) but I think most would prefer that someone else were leading right now, regardless of console horsepower.

I disagree completely.

The Wii is gaining steam, but not equally. We're starting to see shifts from Japan, and from larger American devs. It's a trickle down system.

(I was gonna type more, but i've said this so much I'm too lazy to bother again.)

I'm very familiar with your philosophy and I agree with it 99% of the time but dude, it's been two years. Devs should not have to be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting the Wii. Yes, there have been new game announcements but has there been anything that even begins to approach the kind of support that the PS3 and 360 saw out of the gate? I don't need to see completed games, just give me a fucking announcement that doesn't sound like a demo project submitted by college students.

Having a pretty much equal platform (PS2) with a waaaaaaay bigger install base?

Again, that's a very weak excuse. The Wii is the fastest selling home console in the U.S. and it didn't have a year on the market by itself to build it's lead. It may not be as powerful as the HD twins but we're not talking about the difference in power between Big Blue and a Commodore 64. Most devs just stopped making PS2 games yesterday (and some still are). I think they can still remember how to develop for the "weak" Wii.

And somehow, even with the relatively level hardware base last gen, developers still chose to give the fledgling Xbox better support than the veteran 'Cube. Didn't have any difficulty taking a risk there did they? (I know, I know - moneyhats)

Thank god we've finally arrived at next-gen. How developers must have suffered during the uncreative era that lasted up until (and including) the PS2.

I know this was probably a response to another discussion but still, Thank You.

If Apple had released the Wii, as is, you don't think devs would be trampling each other to develop for it? Deep down 3rd parties don't want to see an all powerful and omnipotent Nintendo (they remember what that was like) but ironically they're helping it happen by releasing shitty games and letting Nintendo dominate sales on the two most successful new platforms. Square got the memo on the DS and EA is really trying their best on Wii but everyone else seems to be asleep at the wheel hoping that the general public's going to suddenly stop buying Wiis.

 

[Opiate]

I agree. The 360 isn't breaking any records on the software front? It just had the honor of keeping PS3's seat warm and receiving all the benefits of the 'heir apparent'.

Do we have a legal comparison of PS2 software sales vs 360 vs Wii, launch aligned? Hell, even just shipment numbers?

We have fragmented sales numbers.

Two months ago (when the Wii was at 18 months old) launch aligned total sales numbers were revealed for the US only:

Wii: ~50 Million
PS2: ~42 Million
360: ~30 Million
PS3: ~20 Million

At 20 months, we have these totals:

Wii: ~60 Million
360: ~35 Million
PS3: ~25 Million

Edit: Thanks to Donny for the correction.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

That's not what I was talking about at all. My post (I thought) was stating the obvious; that 3rd parties will never be as enthusiastic about supporting Nintendo as they are the other hardware developers because at the end of the day Nintendo is always going to be their biggest competitor in software. I won't say that they want to sabotage Nintendo (well maybe Ubi does) but I think most would prefer that someone else were leading right now, regardless of console horsepower.

I mostly agree, except for the bolded part.

The horsepower issue is pretty important to developers and publishers. Not because of the "No one wants to work on last-gen games because they're artists" shit that gets bandied about here (Epic aside). But a lot of them have invested a large amount of money in to HD, high-powered games. With the exception of larger companies like Capcom, which weren't stupid enough to put all their eggs in a single basket, a lot of modern developers simply have to choose a side. Publishers like Marvelous hitched their wagon to Nintendo, most others stayed HD. They're probably thinking that, if they can just ride out this generation, there will be at least some rudimentary standards next time around.

Until then, Wii gets the table scrap.

 

[Karma]

Go ahead. Whenever you stop laughing, compute those tie ratios. Source data for two multiplat games is right here in this thread, and you won't have to go far to find more. Please share your results.

:lol Going to keep laughing as long as people in this thread continue to try and spin the 360 software numbers. You are talking two games. I am talking all games sold. How can you ignore a tie ratio of 7.9?