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Official Madden 2006 PS2 Tournament I: It's so hard.. to say goodbye.. to yeste.. LD!
- Thread starter FrenchMovieTheme
- Start date
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
you can control DB's all you like, just not wide receievers. don't ask me why (i'm just a crazy madden fan off his rocker!), that's just how it's going to be. case... CLOSED!!!!!!!!1
Whenever you're in your own territory, you throw long, very rarely anything else. Solution: Sit in Quad Deep Zone(Nickel or Dime) and watch the incompletions pile up as all long bombs end up getting sent into triple-coverage. I had a feeling this was all I had to do in our previous game, and that's why I'm satisfied.
Whenever you're in your opponent's territory, you mix in runs. Solution: Start running more normal 4-3 plays, but don't neglect deep.
My ability to score points is another matter entirely.
Whenever you're in your opponent's territory, you mix in runs. Solution: Start running more normal 4-3 plays, but don't neglect deep.
My ability to score points is another matter entirely.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
last thing im going to say on the subject: at no point in any game for any reason should you be controlling the receiver (until after the ball is in your possession). no exceptions.
Ever since NFL2k1 online I have switched to the WR's to manually catch right before the ball gets there. It puts the defense at no disadvantage and is in no way shape or form cheese. Switching while in route and moving my guy around the screw up the defensive AI is another story. There are plenty of "cheesier" things people do that aren't illegal so if no one can explain how it is cheesing but will still gripe about it and make it such an important rule then I guess I'm done with Madden here.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
no one else in the league feels the need to switch to the WR before the pass is completed. if it puts the defense at no disadvantage then don't do it, no one else does. if you have legitimate gripes about cheesy things people do bring it up
Why would I not do it because it doesn't cheese the defense? That is all the more reason to do it. My players catch the ball when I do that. When I don't they drop it. If it's cheese why wasn't I lighting up the field with Baltimore last year instead of completing about 29% of my passes with 17 TD's and 30 INT's?
Hitokage said:Whenever you're in your own territory, you throw long, very rarely anything else. Solution: Sit in Quad Deep Zone(Nickel or Dime) and watch the incompletions pile up as all long bombs end up getting sent into triple-coverage. I had a feeling this was all I had to do in our previous game, and that's why I'm satisfied.
Whenever you're in your opponent's territory, you mix in runs. Solution: Start running more normal 4-3 plays, but don't neglect deep.
My ability to score points is another matter entirely.
oOoH no! you found me out! lol that's why i chose the team i did. They aren't able to do the things in normally do, kinda want to change my play style alittle.
SickBoy said:
For starters I am not the only one doing it, I've played other people who switch to the WR when the ball gets there also.
Secondly yea it increased my completion percentage last season, from about 25% to 30%. Even with Denver and a capable QB what was my completion percentage, high 40's? Did I dominate the passing game in the tourney final? Barely over 100 yards and below 50% completion IIRC. Wow, I am a master of the cheese!
The rule is stupid. Again, can anyone tell me exactly why it's cheese? All I am seeing is "don't do it, it's cheese!" ... "o rly? why is it cheese?" .... "bubububu just dont do it or ur out!!"
My WR's don't do some stupid jetpack animation and the DB's definitely do not swat at the ball 95% of the time or whatever the rule says. You guys are just paranoid about the AI. Oh noes, don't switch to ur WR, it's cheese! Blitzing non stop like we're in a lobby game, goalline nowhere near the goalline, 4th and 8 go for it, non stop rolling out with QB's, cheese manual DE rush around the corner of the o-line, that's fine! Just don't switch to the WR at the last second cheeser! :lol
Andokuky said:
Nevertheless, if you agree it gives you better results, unless everyone is doing it, it's an unfair advantage over people who don't... regardless of whether you're only capable of completing 35% of your passes.
It's not rocket science.
Granted, the rule might not be there to prevent simply changing to a receiver, and that might not be cheesy in Madden in general, but that's irrelevant. When it comes to fair play under the league (and I presume, tourney) rules, switching your receiver isn't.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
who else has done it? i have yet to play anyone who has done it.
it's not only if you do it, but also when. if you are doing it on 3rd down when you clearly know it is going to result in a catch, how is that not cheese? your opponent isn't pulling that crap when he needs a 3rd down conversion, why should you?
why is defensive line spread not stupid? switching to the receiver gives you a competitive advantage that your opponent doesn't have. why is that so hard to understand?
there are plenty of people who roll out with their qb's, plenty of people who use "manual DE rush cheese" (ando jr included
), plenty of people who go for it on 4th down. no one else uses manual WR catching to my knowledge, and if they do who is it? (doesn't count if it's your bro! :lol )SickBoy said:
Wow that is about as broad an explanation as the rule itself.
I guess that spreading the ball around and mixing up the playcalling should be illegal too then? I mean, not everyone in this league does that and those that do will fare better than those that don't so I guess the ones that should need to stop cheesing! You're right, it's not rocket science. I'm still just waiting for an explanation as to why it is cheese. All anyone can say is "bububu only u do it" and "bububu advantage!" (though no one can explain HOW it is an advantage).
I'm not calling anyone out in public. If I have a problem with how someone plays I will talk to them about it, not post it here or go behind their backs crying to the commish.
Pull what crap? Didn't you say earlier that switching to the WR at the last second won't make a difference anyways? And nothing you said there addresses the point I made. If it is cheese, if it is "crap" and "cheap", why am I still an average passer at best? If it is cheap and cheese then I should be lighting it up, but I'm not.
Oh so now it DOES make a difference? And switching to my WR to make a perfectly cheese free catch is no problem. Shit, can anyone actually explain why this is cheese without just saying "bububu illegal"... "bububub advantage". I have played plenty of people who throw nothing but jump balls and abuse the offensive tackle AI non stop by running about a mile to the outside to get a free shot at my QB, that is abusing the AI and taking advantage of shit game design an infinite amount more than simply trying to manually catch a ball yet there are no problems there.
Well that clearly makes a case against me. I mean hey, there are plenty of people in this league who cheese, all the more reason to eliminate an element that isn't even cheese! I guess we can replace it with non-stop squib kicks or manual LB blitz or something. The more cheese the merrier I guess.
Bottom line is this is just something I started doing in all football games back on the Dreamcast and it doesn't put the defense at any more of a disadvantage then they put themselves in by calling whatever play they called that left my guy open enough for me to throw the ball to him. I think it's pretty funny that a lot of cheese slides in this league for no good reason yet one mention of the term "manual catch" and people think I'm jetpacking in the air catching balls in triple coverage or something. Whatever :lol
Andokuky said:
You said: It improves your results.
The rules have said: It is against the rules.
No one else does it because it is against the rules.
Therefore, you are taking liberties with the rules and reaping a reward from them, where most other players aren't.
How is it cheese? Re-read those four sentences until you understand you're breaking the rules regardless of how lame you think they are, and that by your own admission, it's helping your team, and that will answer your question.
It's cheese until the league rules change. And the league rules probably won't change to prevent any argument regarding bigger WR control issues.
Unlike mixing up plays, the people who aren't doing aren't doing it because they're dumb or uncreative, they're doing it out of respect for the rules. You're not.
Is this in any way not clear?
I would've been switching to my receiver whenever possible in the league if I thought it was fair play. If I could milk an extra 5% out of my quarterback, I'd be all for it. Hell, there have been enough times my receivers just haven't gone up for a ball and it's annoying. But you know what, everyone (almost, that is) plays on a level field, so sportsmanship dictates it's not necessary.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
It's illegal because in man coverage, the AI follows the receiver, not the ball. So if you take control of the receiver, do a funky twist around and then run to the spot where the ball will land, the DB will 100% of the time be out of position because he is following the guy, when in reality the DB would have the better position to make the catch.
We've tested this out and it is BS.
Controlling the CB, on the other hand, has no impact on the AI. The receiver can still run his route and make catches like he normally would, only now as the QB, you have a much tighter window to throw into (assuming the guy is any good at using the CB).
We've tested this out and it is BS.
Controlling the CB, on the other hand, has no impact on the AI. The receiver can still run his route and make catches like he normally would, only now as the QB, you have a much tighter window to throw into (assuming the guy is any good at using the CB).
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
:lol where did you get that from? you are the one who said it, i was quoting you.
you said:
and i said:
i.e. pressing triangle, getting into position, etc.
and like i said, its not over the body of work. maybe you don't do it everytime. maybe you do it on crucial 3rd downs.
here is the bottom line: no one else does this, you knew it was against the rules long ago, so why do it? you have admitted it gives you an advantage catching the ball. if none of your opponents do it, how is that fair to them?
SickBoy said:
The rules describe a situation where someone is obviously taking control of the WR well before the ball is there and moving them around. That is what makes the DB screw up and blow coverage, that is what results in wide open catches, that is cheese. That however, is not what I am doing. I am not asking for an explanation as to how it is against the rules, I want to know exactly how it is cheese. Catching the ball myself after I have thrown it and the AI has committed to the ball is not cheese. If I am wide open after I manually make that catch I would have been just as open if I let the CPU try to catch it. Whether or not they would catch it is another story.
This quote and the "gone up for the ball" part proves to me that you do not understand what I am talking about. I don't make my WR jump manually, I don't control anything until they are already committed to the ball by jumping or sliding or whatever and then I simply switch and hit Y. Hell, half the time my player is already in the catching animation so the switch is more of a force of habit than anything to help my team.
Again, I don't move my WR a bit and only control them for a split second before the ball gets there. No jetpacking, no DB screwing up. I think we all know of the jetpacking problem by manually moving your QB around, it's been in Madden for years now but I don't do that.
Just another double standard rule. As a CB you can run all over the WR controlled by the AI. If I throw a ball the WR is stuck in the predetermined route the AI goes on while the user can adapt and do whatever he wants. Meanwhile I am allowed to manually control the WR to "break up an INT" since the defense has a clear advantage here but controlling the WR for a split second to do something that abuses the AI or manipulates sloppy EA programming in no way, shape or form is illegal and no one has a good reason why :lol
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
Run all over the AI WR? That's pass interference.
Wellington said:
Hito can vouch for this.
1st and 10...hasselbeck throws to Jurevicius. Glen Earl breathes on JJ, PASS INTERFERENCE
1st and 10 again, pass to Jackson or whever the hell his #1 is...I move earl in the wrong direction, nudge Jackson INTO the ball/catch/pass/whatever, completion, PI anyway. :lol
3rd time...
1st and 10
JeRRRRRRamy Stevens over the middle...Earl in position to knock down the pass...instead...gives the refs a reason to throw a flag :lol
That's not what I meant. If I throw a corner route the user can just run to where the ball will land, turn around and make a play on the ball. My options are to simply sit and watch as my WR doesn't even take the safety/CB sitting there into consideration and runs the same route as normal. Or a comeback route, a user can take control of the CB when I throw it and run right around my AI WR and the WR will just sit there. Etc etc. Now if I were taking control of these guys and moving them into a better position then I could see the complaining but I am just throwing to guys and trying to make the catch. Don't see what all the bickering is about especially when other far cheesier things are ignored or even joked about (like the title of last season's thread) and I won't stop doing it so like I said I'll just stay out of anything Madden, just wanted some clarification on the whining is all.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
How about making a good decision as a QB? That's why I always used to love playing against Fifty, if I was able to hit the man he was covering it was a snub to him. If he deflected or inted, then I lost the battle. In no way do I see it as being cheesy. Is it cheesy when DM plays as Brooks and comes across and makes tackles better than the AI? How about when I play as a scrub DE (Hicks FTW) and shut down the right side of the field for runs or rollouts? As long as you aren't abusing the AI, I think it's fine. Outside manual LB/CB blitzing and controlling the receiver does abuse the AI.
Wellington said:
You misunderstood me. I didn't say controlling the defenders is cheesy, I said the wide open ability to control the defense while something as small as catching the ball myself with the WR is "crap" makes no sense whatsoever. Good thing I don't control the WR or I would be abusing AI. As I am not then there is nothing wrong.
Andokuky said:
The rules also say rather uncategorically: "No manually controlling WR's" before justifying why. But can see how it could be construed as applying to one specific type of WR control.
But the reason I'm posting is because I'm curious about is why you're so obstinate about it:
Why is it so important to you to do it? I don't disagree that it's probably not cheese in most (if not all) cases in terms of how it affects the AI, but I appreciate the rule because it closes the door on anything borderline.
Nobody's doing it and everyone's fine with that, except for you... Why can't you live without it? Seems like sort of a weird issue to take such a hard line on.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
mlb is in full swing, lets let madden cool down a bit. i was thinking of doing a tournament II where everyone uses their most hated team. of course since we aren't all hardcore fans of one team that might not work since some people will say "i fucking hate the colts! gimme gimme gimme!"
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
Being a Giants fan, I fucking hate the Eagles. :|
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
the thing about the proposed tournament is i would clearly have to use the packers -_-