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[KillJade]

Resistance can't display 1080i? My 5-year-old HDTV can only accept 480i/480p/1080i as input, and the vast majority of sets back then were the same.

My set is made by Sony, for chrissakes.

Are you telling me that if you have a set that can't take 720p as input, that you can only play some games in 480i/p?

The encoder in the 360 can convert any internal framebuffer resolution that is used to 480i or 480p or 720p or 1080i. A game can render 720p but still output correctly as 1080i. Is this not the case in the PS3?

sigh..Resistance runs in 720p. Your TV will accept 720p and upscale it to 1080i. Chill out...

 

[LJ11]

This resolution issue is a total joke. Sony better clean it up with a firmware update, or a bunch of unhappy HDTV owners are going to be playing in 480p.

 

[Beer Monkey]

sigh..Resistance runs in 720p. Your TV will accept 720p and upscale it to 1080i. Chill out...

Bullshit, I've had this set for five years and I know exactly what it will and will not sync to. Most direct-view and rear-projection CRT sets from that time period and years before usually only accepted 1080i and not 720p. You have no idea what you are talking about and YOU need to chill out.

So... which games can't do 1080i?? I must know cuz I have one of those sets.... thanks.

Yeah, welcome to the club. There's tons of sets out there like ours.

 

[bill0527]

sigh..Resistance runs in 720p. Your TV will accept 720p and upscale it to 1080i. Chill out...

That is not the case for older HDTV's. My almost 4-year-old Mitsubishi does 480i, 480p, and 1080i. It does not accept a 720p signal in any way at all, nor does it do any scaling because 720p wasn't even around when I bought my TV.

If this is the case with the PS3, then it is extremely lame, lame, lame. I'm not throwing down this kind of money to game in last generation's resolutions.

 

[KillJade]

Bullshit, I've had this set for five years and I know exactly what it will and will not sync to. Most direct-view and rear-projection CRT sets from that time period and years before usually only accepted 1080i and not 720p. You have no idea what you are talking about and YOU need to chill out.



Yeah, welcome to the club. There's tons of sets out there like ours.

hmm well. i have a KV-30HS420 Sont HDCRT. it displays 480i, 480p, and 1080i. it accepts 720p and and upconverts it to 1080i. but since i have no idea what i;m talking about i'll shut up sucks to be you

 

[darkks85]

PS3 have a 1080i option. Gamespot played resistance with it during their PS3 marathon.

 

[Beer Monkey]

hmm well. i have a KV-30HS420 Sont HDCRT. it displays 480i, 480p, and 1080i. it accepts 720p and and upconverts it to 1080i. but since i have no idea what i;m talking about i'll shut up sucks to be you

Yeah, it's damned sad, I might have to drop five grand on that Pioneer plasma a few months earlier than I was planning.

And yeah, you should shut up.

PS3 have a 1080i option. Gamespot played resistance with it during their PS3 marathon.

Wow, you know more than Insomniac.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony is so ****ing dumb. What the f are they thinking? My buddy's TV only does 480i/p and 1080i. And I'm supposed to be showing off my PS3 to him this Friday, so that he can want one early next year.

Is Sony telling me that he will have to play games like Resistence in 480p? ****ing PS2 resolution?

 

[darkks85]

Wow, you know more than Insomniac.

Nope but I saw it live. So unless Gamespot didn't notice it was only running in 480p I doubt you will.

 

[Riddler]

This resolution issue is a total joke. Sony better clean it up with a firmware update, or a bunch of unhappy HDTV owners are going to be playing in 480p.

Well its a good thing resistance atleast warns you so people wont wonder why the game looks so blurry on their expensive HDTV.

 

[KillJade]

Sony is so ****ing dumb. What the f are they thinking? My buddy's TV only does 480i/p and 1080i. And I'm supposed to be showing off my PS3 to him this Friday, so that he can want one early next year.

Is Sony telling me that he will have to play games like Resistence in 480p? ****ing PS2 resolution?

well considering the amount of 480p games on PS2, I wouldnt label 480p as "PS2 resolution"...

 

[Bearillusion]

Buy a Bravia cheapo's.

 

[bill0527]

Nope but I saw it live. So unless Gamespot didn't notice it was only running in 480p I doubt you will.

The particular TV they were running it on may have upscaled it to 1080i, but as noted here already, there are several people who have televisions that don't upscale.

 

[Stealth]

I'm actually pretty sure I've heard Ted Price say the game can be upscaled to 1080i, since you set your system resolution and it adjusts the games to match that. This is why DCharlie was having a problem with his PS2 games stretching to 720p instead of displaying at 480i/p. So, 1080i people, I wouldn't freak out just yet.

 

[kaching]

JS, can you shed a little more light on the nature of the issue here? Do you know?

 

[KillJade]

The particular TV they were running it on may have upscaled it to 1080i, but as noted here already, there are several people who have televisions that don't upscale.

sigh...the SYSTEM scales it...

 

[dynamitejim]

So what exactly is stopping PS3 games from supporting 1080i, does it not have an internal scaler? How do these games then support 480i/p? It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Crazymoogle]

Thanks for the correction.

I disagree, actually. Best evidence I've seen is something to the whereabouts of 1400x950 or thereabouts. There's always going to be some argument room because a) the grille pitch varies and b) CRT resolution has a variable definition thanks to how the triangles are restricted in showing color variation. I've seen some other archived AVS posts swearing it's closer to 1100x600, even (some could be attributed to contrast as well). It's not something you can eyeball, per se, because of how the dots/stripes work, but to this point I haven't seen any evidence to claim the XBR960 had a full discrete pixel height of 1080.

I'd point to this thread for general helpful information, followed by a lot of tedious debate on accurately measuring CRT pixel count.

 

[mckmas8808]

JS, can you shed a little more light on the nature of the issue here? Do you know?

Yeah JS. It's seriously okay if you don't know. If you don't know just say so and tell us the truth when you get a chance tomorrow if you can ask some other guys at Insomniac.

Thanks.

 

[Crazymoogle]

So what exactly is stopping PS3 games from supporting 1080i, does it not have an internal scaler? How do these games then support 480i/p? It doesn't make any sense.

Well considering they're not scaling anything right now (even DVDs), I think it would be a reasonable theory to say Sony is still trying to cook some geese in the firmware department, and such a thing could happen down the road. Not that I would know, though.

 

[jstevenson]

Yeah JS. It's seriously okay if you don't know. If you don't know just say so and tell us the truth when you get a chance tomorrow if you can ask some other guys at Insomniac.

Thanks.

Sure do know, but I can't comment on the specific reason because it's not a software issue. Think logically and you'll figure it out.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Not to sound too hyperbolic but its going to be a real cluster**** come this Friday when people with HDTVs that support 480i/p and 1080i but 720p signals won't be accepted.

CrazyMoogle above me sounds like hes got the right idea. The base OS isn't supporting upscaling all together it seems.

 

[darkks85]

Sure do know, but I can't comment on the specific reason because it's not a software issue. Think logically and you'll figure it out.

So you're saying it can never be fixed with a firmware update?

 

[dynamitejim]

Well considering they're not scaling anything right now (even DVDs), I think it would be a reasonable theory to say Sony is still trying to cook some geese in the firmware department, and such a thing could happen down the road. Not that I would know, though.

Hmm, looks like the PS3 doesn't have any kind of scaling chip like the 360. I found this quote on Beyond3D from DeanoC:

PS3 scales games from 720p to 1080p straight from the box, so it does have a scaler chip.

No it doesn't scale games from 720p to 1080p without effort.

If it requires some kind of effort for 720p->1080p that means CPU/GPU cycles. But then it would be a software issue and jstevenson said it wasn't (or is it the firmware?).

 

[rc213]

Sure do know, but I can't comment on the specific reason because it's not a software issue. Think logically and you'll figure it out.

Can it be fixed in the firmware?

 

[KillJade]

hey beermonkey, what model is your Sony set?

 

[BlueTsunami]

If the PS3 did have an Internal Scaler, wouldn't it be scaling games already? I have no idea about how scaling gets implemented if theres some type of software to accompany it.

It sounds like it doesn't. It also sounds like something that will be fixed with a firmware update.

 

[Beer Monkey]

The bottom line is that the PS3 (unlike the 360) is lacking the dedicated hardware to scale it so you are going to have to reduce the available horsepower for rendering the game itself if you want scaling.

The other solution would be to code each game so that it supports a framebuffer with the dimensions of each standard resolution or one that can be output as such without scaling. For 1080i, this could possibly be resolutions like 1920x1080, 1440x1080, 1280x1080, 1920x540, all of which have timings that are compatible with 1080i devices. This would be in addition to rendering in at least 640x480/720x480 and 1280x720.

Sony, I don't like your design.

hey beermonkey, what model is your Sony set?

KP-53HS10.

 

[bill0527]

Is it possible that its just not upscaling in the debug units that all developers have, but would upscale in the final retail unit?

The 360 had some kind of profile problem on the debug units that nobody at Infinity Ward knew about because it was all they had when they were doing Call of Duty 2, and the game ended up shipping with a profile problem that would erase some people's game saves.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Sure do know, but I can't comment on the specific reason because it's not a software issue. Think logically and you'll figure it out.

It's very unimpressive that you won't just say what the issue is to end any confusion with people buying your companies game.

That's pretty shady buddy. Just another PR monkey...

 

[BlueTsunami]

It's very unimpressive that you won't just say what the issue is to end any confusion with people buying your companies game.

That's pretty shady buddy. Just another PR monkey...

Thats not real nice, seeing as how he may or may not still be constraint as to what can be said. He also probably doesn't want to plant a seed as far as to how the problem will be fixed. Its not his issue to resolve or give info about.

Being a douche to a dev like that should be bannable, seriously. Well, except for Che, we can still be a douche to him. Oh and Dennis Dyack, lol but he can defend himself...poor Kittywry

 

[darkks85]

It's very unimpressive that you won't just say what the issue is to end any confusion with people buying your companies game.

That's pretty shady buddy. Just another PR monkey...

Quick! Do a thread on evilavatar about it!

 

[mckmas8808]

Sure do know, but I can't comment on the specific reason because it's not a software issue. Think logically and you'll figure it out.

**** **** **** **** ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 FIX THIS SHIT SONY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Firmware it up.

 

[quaere]

Glad to see people are as upset as I am about this. If it's possible to fix, Sony better get on this ASAP.

Is it possible that its just not upscaling in the debug units that all developers have, but would upscale in the final retail unit?

The 360 had some kind of profile problem on the debug units that nobody at Infinity Ward knew about because it was all they had when they were doing Call of Duty 2, and the game ended up shipping with a profile problem that would erase some people's game saves.

My PS3 is a Japanese retail unit, used with the USA retail Resistance disc.

The PS3 is able to do some scaling. The 1080p Casino Royale trailer plays beautifully in 1080i.

 

[quaere]

Thanks for stopping in jstevenson. Any developer communication is always great.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Yeah, no hard feelings to you, JS. Ignore anybody who is rude to you over stuff like this. You've been as helpful as you can be given your situation.

 

[Sean*O]

It's very unimpressive that you won't just say what the issue is to end any confusion with people buying your companies game.

That's pretty shady buddy. Just another PR monkey...

NDA?!? Is it pretty unimpressive that someone won't give up their job so they can end your suspense?

 

[jstevenson]

The PS3 is able to do some scaling. The 1080p Casino Royale trailer plays beautifully in 1080i.

Interlacing isn't the same as scaling.

 

[darkks85]

Interlacing isn't the same as scaling.

So you're saying PS3 can't scale?

Hopefully it will be fixed for Euro launch.

Spoiler

Yeah right...

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

i..i just can't believe it.

I have a confirmed PS3 pre-order, and i'm essentially buying it at launch to play Resistance. And now this news drops? My TV can't support 720p, only 1080i. How could this even be an issue with a next-gen system???

I'm seriously considering cancelling my pre-order. What's the point in paying that amount of money to have it playing on my SONY XBR CRT at 480p resolution.

 

[quaere]

Interlacing isn't the same as scaling.

Ok, what about playing videos in 480p/i? Isn't that scaling (from 1080p)?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Ok, what about playing videos in 480p/i? Isn't that scaling (from 1080p)?

Downscaling yes

 

[darkks85]

So if I have a 1080p display and set the PS3 settings to 1080p I have to change to 720p whenever i play a non-1080p game? That's a pretty big **** up by Sony if true.

Also, why does PS3 have a 1080i option if you can't even use it for most games?

 

[Beer Monkey]

There's probably enough overhead in the system to allow for scaling of videos, but that doesn't mean that they can do it for 'free'.

 

[EekTheKat]

Resistance sets itself to 720p here when I fire it up while connected to a 1080p screen (with the XMB set to 1080p) via HDMI.

It is kind of annoying in a way having the PS3 constantly switching resolutions when jumping from one game to another, but hopefully it's just some launch problems + future games will have it worked out.

 

[Surreal]

Sony really messed up here. It's not a problem for me since I have a native 720p display, but for some people this is really unacceptable.

 

[PantherLotus]

The PS3 Screenshot Thread (56k no)

Here is the most updated index:

Games with Posts
Afrika - 1, 2
Alone in the Dark - 1
Armored Core - 1
Army of Two - 1
Assassin's Creed - 1
Battlefield: Bad Company - 1
BioShock - 1
Bladestorm: The Hundred Years' War - 1
Blast Factor - 1
Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII - 1
Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway - 1
Ca$h Carnage Chao$ DLX - 1
Call of Duty 3 - 1, 2, 3, 4
Cipher Complex - 1
Clive Barker's Jericho - 1
Coded Arms: Assault - 1
Criminal Crackdown - 1
Dark Sector - 1, 2
Def Jam: Icon - 1
Devil May Cry 4 - 1, 2, 3
DIRT: Colin Mcrae Off-Road - 1
Elveon - 1
Enchant Arm - 1
Endless Saga - 1
Eyedentify - 1
Fatal Inertia - 1
Fifth Phantom Saga - 1
Fight Night Round 3 - 1
Final Fantasy XIII - 1, 2
FLOW - 1
Formula One Championship Edition - 1
Full Auto 2: Battlelines - 1, 2, 3, 4
Frontlines: Fuel of War - 1
Genji: Days of the Blade - 1, 2, 3
Go! Sudoku - 1
Go! Swizzleblocks - 1
Gran Turismo HD - 1
Harker - 1
Haze - 1
Heavenly Sword - 1
Heavy Rain - 1
Hellboy - 1
Hot Shots Golf 5 - 1
John Woo Presents Stranglehold - 1
Lair - 1, 2
Lemmings 2 - 1
Madden NFL 07 - 1
Marvel Ultimate Alliance - 1, 2
Metal Gear Solid 4 - 1, 2
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames - 1
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire - 1, 2, 3
Motorstorm - 1, 2
Need for Speed Carbon - 1
Ninja Gaiden Sigma - 1
Playstation Store - 1
Ratchet and Clank - 1
Resistance: Fall of Man - 1, 2, 3
Ridge Racer 7 - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Rogue Warrior - 1
SEGA Golf Club - 1
Singstar 1
Sonic the Hedgehog - 1, 2
Tekken 6 - 1
The Eye of Judgement - 1, 2
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 - 1
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas - 1
Tony Hawk's Project 8 - 1, 2
Unreal Tournament 2007 - 1
Untitled Naughty Dog Game - 1
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom - 1
Vampire Slaughter- Harker - 1
Virtua Fighter 5 - 1, 2
Virtua Tennis 3 - 1
Wallpapers - 1
Warhawk - 1
White Night Story - 1
Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007 - 1

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE ENTIRE POSTS IN THAT THREAD!
____________________

 

[bishoptl]

It's very unimpressive that you won't just say what the issue is to end any confusion with people buying your companies game.

That's pretty shady buddy. Just another PR monkey...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you can piss off.

You have no idea how easy it would be to dispense with 99% of the anti-360/PS3 FUD that goes on in this forum every day with just one detailed post...but apparently little things like NDAs and contractural agreements are unbeknownst to you. When an Insomniac dev does take the time to visit this thread and offer what knowledge he's allowed to, you provide posts like the one quoted above. Guess whose presence is more valuable, jerky.

 

[Laguna X]

Damn fine job you did with that thread PantherLotus. You da man now dawg!

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but you can piss off.

You have no idea how easy it would be to dispense with 99% of the anti-360/PS3 FUD that goes on in this forum every day with just one detailed post...but apparently little things like NDAs and contractural agreements are unbeknownst to you. When an Insomniac dev does take the time to visit this thread and offer what knowledge he's allowed to, you provide posts like the one quoted above. Guess whose presence is more valuable, jerky.

Sneaky.