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Official WWE Raw Thread 10/10

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atomsk said:
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anigif of the year
 
Seems like every time someone leaves or "leaves" the company, they always have similar comments. I wonder when things will actually change for how people keep saying they want it to be?
 
Vince Russo comments on Monday night, from 1wrestling.com...


RUSSO: EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN’T ALWAYS AGREE, JIM ROSS DESERVED BETTER
By: Vince Russo
10/12/2005 11:01:11 AM

EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN’T ALWAYS AGREE---JR DESERVED BETTER

Since my life has taken on a new direction some two years ago now, I must admit that I really don’t watch wrestling anymore. Having a new outlook on life, courtesy of God, the things that appealed to me for a good portion of my life—42 years to be exact—just don’t “float my boat” any more—pardon the pun.

But I will admit, I still flip around during commercials—a habit which none of us will ever break. This past Monday night between innings of the Yankees/Angels game, I happened to “flip to” Raw when Jim Ross was in the ring.

You know, I swore when Jesus saved my life I would never comment on “mainstream wrestling” again, but this time I have to—not because it has anything to do with wrestling, or an angle, but because it has to do with everything that’s wrong with society.

In my book “Forgiven”, that’s due out in a few weeks, I talk at great length about Jim Ross, and my relationship with him. I’ll be the first to admit that there were times when I was tough on him, and it wasn’t personal—it was strictly business. But, at the time my view was clouded . . . much clouded. Why? Because I never put myself in the shoes of Jim Ross. I had never walked one step in his boots. Put aside the personal setbacks in his life; the bouts with bells palsy, the death of his mother—who meant the world to him, I’m talking about the taxing job called “Talent Relations”. Fans of the business really have no idea the thanklessness of this job—yes, even more thankless than that of a television writer. Forget about having to please a roster full of wrestlers, many with egos larger than the average man could ever fathom, but the demands from Vincent K. himself . . . you just had to be there to understand. But with unexplainable patience, Jim Ross did it. From a personal level did I always agree with his decisions, of course not, but then again—we’re all guilty of being Tuesday morning quarterbacks. Could I have done a better job? Probably not—but then again—I would have never wanted the position in the first place.

In wrestling we all have egos, some bigger . . . much bigger . . . than others. I’d be lying if I didn’t say that JR didn’t have an ego—and I think he’d tell you the same thing. But the difference between JR and some of the boys was that JR truly, truly, loved his job. That’s much more than I can say about myself. JR took great pride in being, “the best play-by-play man in the business", and he should have—because he was. To him—being out there every Monday night was what he lived for. The truth? There was no better. Was he a bit “over the top” at times, of course he was—but—his love, heart, desire, and passion for what he calls “the game” wasn’t, isn’t and will never be matched.

During the Raw boom in the late 90’s, I’ll tell you right here, right now—I wanted to replace both Lawler and JR. At the time we’re talking about the “Attitude” era, when sports-entertainment was as close to reality as it was ever going to get. Personally, I just had a problem with a guy wearing a crown and a guy in a cowboy hat selling it to me. When all else was as “real” as wrestling could ever get—in my opinion, we had two blatant “characters” trying to sell it. But, that was all about personal “taste”; it had nothing—NOTHING—to do with the ability of Lawler, or Ross..

So in hindsight, I can understand the WWE brass wanting to replace JR—things change—you have to evolve. Growing up I can remember Ralph Kiner, Lindsay Nelson and Bob Murphy calling Met games. Man, in my head I can still hear their voices—but that was then—this is now. Things just change . . . look at me. No, I don’t have a problem with the “business” decision, but as not only a Christian but as a human being, I just have a problem with the way they did it.

You know what, there are a lot of things you can say about Vince Russo back “in the day”, BUT one thing I will say—I never—NEVER—treated anybody disrespectfully. Yeah, my button was pushed on a few occasions, but all-in-all I treated people the same way I wanted to be treated. Even though JR and I weren’t on the same page at many times—I can sit here and say that when I worked with him—and when I wrote for him—I never made him the butt-end of a joke. One of my personal, professional highlights came when JR had his own announcer’s desk built during an episode of Raw—to me that was entertainment---and JR was priceless.

But on the other side of that coin---when WCW backed me into a corner—when they wanted ratings yesterday—I did the despicable. I sent Ed Ferrera out there and asked him to do a parody of JR. There is much more about that in “Forgiven”, but let me just say—if there is anything I could ever take back that I did in the wrestling business—that was at the top of my list. Again—at that time we were going after the WWF, and we were going hard—I was stopping at NOTHING. What a horse’s !@#$ I was. Again—you will never understand the pressure I was under—if you think for one minute that I was thinking straight—you’re wrong—but still, that’s no excuse. I ask God everyday for forgiveness—and I hope this column serves as an open, public apology to JR.

BUT—with that being said—what’s the WWE’s excuse? I mean, not only isn’t there a ratings war—but the guy is on their team! Why, do they make a guy who has been so loyal to their company—the butt end of their jokes? Well, there’s only one good reason for that—because they can . . . they will . . . and they don’t care.

Yes—it’s all a work my friends, all “made-up”, all “make-believe”. But—there isn’t a single person in that company who doesn’t know what announcing means to JR. From having him kiss Vince’s butt to having Linda low-kick him—JR has been degraded as a human being every way humanly possible. And that’s the problem I have with the business. Replacing JR was no doubt traumatic to him—NO DOUBT—if not for anything else—why not let the guy go out with dignity? Why not let the guy go out on his own terms—with his head held high and not squirming on the mat like a helpless imbecile? Why? Because it was funny? I don’t know . . . maybe it’s me . . . but I wasn’t laughing. I wasn’t laughing because there was just more evilness behind it then you’ll ever know . . . but again that’s the wrestling business and that’s why I now play for the “other” team.

But, you know what—there also needs to come a time when you just say to the boss, “Sorry, Vince . . . I’m just not going to do that.” I completely understand that that is easier said then done. There is a lot of money at stake . . . and everything else that goes with it . . . BUT . . . you know what really comes with money—NOTHING. Take it from a guy who once had it, doesn’t have it any more, and doesn’t want it. Money is not worth anybody’s dignity. JR is talented enough to get a job calling whatever he wants. And at the end of the day, if his dreams come true and he’s up there in that Sooner booth—guess what—he doesn’t have to worry about anybody kicking him in the jewels to get their jollies—that just doesn’t happen out here in the “real” world.

Man, we need to re-think were we’re at. Don’t give me that angle nonsense—we need to start treating people with dignity and respect—especially in the wrestling business. The change has to start somewhere—and I hope it does here.

Again—JR—to the world, I’m sorry for any pain I’ve ever caused you, and I have to deal with that every day, but my friend—I’m telling you—you deserve better . . . much better.

A fan of JR’s,

Vince Russo
 
Ed Ferrara chimes in...



FERRARA: JIM ROSS, YOU ARE THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS
By: Ed Ferrara
10/12/2005 2:33:51 PM

Dear Jim:

I truly hope that it’s all a work... in some way, shape or form.

There is so much I’d like to say to you... stuff I’ve wanted to say for a good, long time. I wouldn’t blame you if never read this -- never clicked on it, never cared to hear what I have to say. You’d be entirely within your rights, given the amount of personal pain I caused you years ago. But I want to say it now, given recent events.

I’ve long thought about tracking you down somehow -- finding your number and calling you. But I wanted to be able to express what I was feeling... and if you hung up the phone upon hearing my name, I wouldn’t have blamed you. But I also wouldn’t have had the opportunity to say what was in my heart.

I hurt you in ways that I could only imagine with those tasteless bits I did during WCW (as well as that one time in WWF). You never asked for it. You never deserved it. Yet, I still did it... and I was dead wrong to have done it.

I’m not going to assign blame to anyone but myself. Vince Russo feels responsible for having come up with the idea to send me out to ridicule you... but, at the end of the day, I was the one who went out and did it. I could have just as easily said “No” to the entire gimmick, but I didn’t. We both know that this is an ugly business that brings out the worst in people, and I displayed that I wasn’t immune to it. I went out there in front of all those fans (back when there still were a few hundred of them left in WCW), and made a mockery... of myself. Deep down, I knew what I was doing was wrong... yet I rationalized it all to myself. I tried to convince myself that “all’s fair in love and war.” I ignored the nagging feelings in the back of my mind and deep in my heart that told me that what I was doing was awful in so many ways. It was spiteful. It was petty. It was mean. Ugly. Uncalled-for. Pure-D wrong. I only wish I could go back and erase that entire chapter, but I can’t.

(And that’s saying nothing about the one time I did it while we were working together in the WWF. Sunday Night Heat in Bakersfield. Given the pressure from above, neither of us felt like we were in any position to balk at what we were being told to do. I would have been been taking things “too seriously” and being “too senstive” if I had resisted. You would have been accused of being a “bad sport” if you had. I don’t think either of us were happy that night. I think that the popped sternum I got from Doc’s bump was karma biting me in the ass... If only I had looked back on it that way when I was in WCW, perhaps I’d have never gone on to rub salt in an already painful wound.)

There’s nothing like being away from the business to help one gain some perspective. In hindsight, I’m still ashamed of what I did.

At the time we worked together, you were a good man doing an incredibly difficult, thankless job -- a job that I didn’t make any easier. Sure, you were a gruff ol’ bear... but then, you had more than earned the right. You were one of the hardest working people in a company of workaholics and you hadn’t had the easiest life outside of work, to say the very least. And who the hell was I? Some punk brought in to help out the company. I had been fitted with horse-blinkers pretty much the day I first started with the company... and, as a result, I had about as much perspective at the time on who you were as you had on me.

But I never got a chance to tell you how much I respected you. I wished that we could have all been working together, rather than at cross-purposes. But, then again, that’s the corporate way, isn’t it? Pit everyone against each other and see who’s still standing in the end. Darwinism at its most despicable.

You probably won’t believe this, but I always enjoyed talking with you -- whether it was a meeting in your office going over plans for the current roster, or running into each other over a smoke in the Stamford office’s parking structure. I enjoyed it because I listened to you. I learned from you. I was always a fan... the problem was I just couldn’t BE a fan at the time. Too much pressure from above to take what “Good Ol’ JR” had to say with a grain of salt kept me from treating you with the respect I had for you, not to mention the respect you deserved.

In my opinion, you were -- and ARE and WILL ALWAYS BE -- the best in the business. As a fan, I know there will never be anyone who will come close to you behind that microphone. No one has ever made me feel the emotion that you did when you’d call a match -- ever. No one will ever know the right things to say at the perfect moments like you do -- ever. No one will ever mean more to wrestling fans as not only an announcer, but as a human being -- ever.

I don’t watch wrestling anymore. I do still follow the ups and downs of the business through the internet. But yesterday, when I read what went down on Monday night’s television, I clicked on the WWE site to watch the footage.

I honestly couldn’t watch all of it. It made me sick to my stomach. I couldn’t watch and see “Good Ol’ JR”™ in that ring. What I saw was Jim Ross, the human being, being used. Being abused. Being treated in a manner that’s deemed “acceptable” in this business, merely because the cameras were rolling.

You deserve so much better than the treatment you received, whether or not it’s “all” an angle. I’m not writing this to speculate work vs. shoot, but I will say this: if it is indeed an angle, the creative forces behind it should be ashamed for resorting to unnecessary, “disgusting” heat merely to put over the returning McMahon family characters. And if it’s NOT all for an angle -- if Monday night was truly your swan song on WWE TV -- I honestly hope that the fans are as turned off by it as I was, and they respond the only way they can... by refusing to watch for one second more.

Is this how a company treats one of it’s most valuable, most visible, most loyal employees? If Steve Ballmer announced he was retiring from Microsoft (or, more apropos, if he was being forced into retirement), do you think Bill Gates would do anything less than give him a grand hero’s send-off as a thanks for all the years of loyal service and dedication, regardless of Gates’ personal feelings toward Ballmer or his retirement? Of course not!

It’s called human decency.

As someone who’d been in the middle of that business, and is now (happily) looking in from the outside, I can honestly say that human decency is sorely lacking therein. Then again, maybe I just don’t “get it” anymore. If that is indeed the case, I’m truly glad I don’t.

No one loves this business with the passion you do, Jim. No one has dedicated himself to this business to the extent that you have over the past. And, similarly, no one’s been treated as poorly as you have been over the years -- by not only idiots like me, but by your own company. It’s quite a testament to this wonderful business, isn’t it?

As I said at the start of this letter, there’s so much I’d like to say to you. This was only a scratch of the surface as I’ve desperately tried to maintain focus and stay on point (not easy when you’re dealing with emotions). If you’d ever allow it, I would be honored to be able to apologize to you directly, and express how incredibly sorry I am for the manifold ways in which I hurt you. If you’d like to contact me -- if only to let me know how to contact you -- my email address is ed@edferrara.com

Keep your head high, Jim. You’re better than all of us.

Respectfully, Ed Ferrara

[NOTE: I started writing this letter yesterday at work with the intention of finishing it up and sending/posting it today... and now I see that Russo’s independently had the exact same impulse. Consider it a testament to the way we both truly feel in our hearts about you and the way you’ve been treated...]
 
I bet these people also think the Sunday Night Football Crew Came straight from heaven as well.
 
vince russo said:
You know what, there are a lot of things you can say about Vince Russo back “in the day”, BUT one thing I will say—I never—NEVER—treated anybody disrespectfully.
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hulkear.jpg

can you lie a little louder, brother?
 
Brian Fellows said:
Just another wasted talent.
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Who also has the worst WWE theme music ever, and yet it is sadly still better than the themes I've heard from TNA. :/
 
No he's right TNA's music is pretty crappy. Not that it matter because half the time you can hardly hear it. They need to work on that.
 
Did anyone notice that Sonny Siaki's name on his video entrance was misspelled as Saiki? And while he was coming down, the camera was looking right at the misspelled last name as his name was spelled correctly on his tights, coat, and on the graphic at the bottom of the screen.

TNA rules.
 
TNA should just start liscensing music for themes. I think AJ, Monty, Raven and Sabin have Ok themes, but the rest pretty much suck. But some WWE themes suck hard too (Bashams, Orlando Jordan). I don't know, but for some reason Conways theme has grown on me!
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Did anyone notice that Sonny Siaki's name on his video entrance was misspelled as Saiki? And while he was coming down, the camera was looking right at the misspelled last name as his name was spelled correctly on his tights, coat, and on the graphic at the bottom of the screen.

TNA rules.
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Yeah I was about to make that remark too. TNA rules indeed.

I think AJ Styles theme music is pretty good actually, but on the other side you get Christopher Daniels who's theme music is a sad rip-off of Manson's Disposable teens song. And let's not talk about Nash's and Jeff Hardy's theme (rap music fits them so well). :lol

That sounds like WCW all over again, where DDP theme was Nirvana, Jericho was Pearl Jam and Adam Bomb/Mortis team was Static-X, only with one or two different notes to avoid licensing I guess.
 
In the same note, DDP's WCW theme was a pretty damn good rip off compared to his WWE's theme. "It's me! It's me! It's DDP!" GTFO.
 
Speaking of DDP, his smile gimmick was absolutely flawless. Him trying to find back Christian's smile was the pinnacle of professional wrestling angles. Blame the WWE management for not pushing him for the world title. There, I said it.
 
:lol @ Russo and Ferrera's comment. Yeah I'm sure you're all so concerned and would never do anything to hurt good ol' JR, cause you know Oklahoma never happened...
 
Did you even read either of those articles? They both apologized profusely for the Oklahoma thing.

Which leads me to this question: What, besides the eye thing, did Ferrara do as Oklahoma that referenced the Bells Palsy? It wasn't like he was out there saying "hey, I've got Bells Palsy!" He was hawking barbecue sauce and overselling everything when he was doing his play by play (PINATA! PINATA! PINATA!). As a parody of Jim Ross, announcer/personality, I thought Oklahoma was hysterical. Yeah, I said it.

Wait, Goooogle answers my own question:

Ed Ferrara via Torch Talk said:
The night Oklahoma was to make his debut, I had my costume, my material, and I was ready to go. I sat down with Vince to go over one of the promos shortly before we went on the air. After I delivered it, he looked at me and said, "What are you doing? You've gotta do the face, too." I felt like the character would have made its point, and could have worked just fine as a parody of J.R. the announcer/personality, and I didn't want to push it into that ugly place. V.R., however, felt strongly that I needed to go all the way with it and incorporate "the face," which I vehemently did not want to do. We went back and forth on it for a while, until Vince said to me (because he had final say at the time), "Look, if you're not gonna do the face, I don't want you to do it at all. That's the way people are gonna be talking about this thing." In retrospect, he technically was right... as I probably wouldn't be answering this question if I hadn't done "the face."

[...]

Also, to clarify, I feel that the only thing that was in bad taste about the character was "the face." Sans that characteristic, I think the character was a fun, valid poke at J.R., his character, and the quirks of his announcing (which is still, by far, impeccable). I felt that the character could have kept going, and it was a fun throwback to the old-school managers of the past that I grew up loving.
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Meh, I don't care how much they apologize. They're horrible people for making fun of his palsy. I mean if WCW was around when Zack Gowen was around it'd be like them making a character that has no leg that falls down commically.
 
Battlezone said:
Did you even read either of those articles? They both apologized profusely for the Oklahoma thing.

Which leads me to this question: What, besides the eye thing, did Ferrara do as Oklahoma that referenced the Bells Palsy? It wasn't like he was out there saying "hey, I've got Bells Palsy!" He was hawking barbecue sauce and overselling everything when he was doing his play by play (PINATA! PINATA! PINATA!). As a parody of Jim Ross, announcer/personality, I thought Oklahoma was hysterical. Yeah, I said it.

Wait, Goooogle answers my own question:
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Bullshit. JR had gotten hit with Bells Palsy right before they did the skit. It was in poor taste, even for wrestling. Their apologies now are shallow and empty. If you think there is any sincerity in their 'apologies' and anything they say, you are a mark.
 
I didn't say I *believed* their apologies; I just said they made them. I don't trust Vince Russo any further than I could throw him.

But again, take away the facial tic, and there's nothing there that mocks his BP. The parody would have been fine. Unneccesary, but fine. I stand by that.
 
Ferrara was the guy who parodied JR in WWF also? "Shlobberknocker, I can't even shay my esshes right" guy?

That I did not know.
 
Battlezone said:
I didn't say I *believed* their apologies; I just said they made them. I don't trust Vince Russo any further than I could throw him.

But again, take away the facial tic, and there's nothing there that mocks his BP. The parody would have been fine. Unneccesary, but fine. I stand by that.
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Well...the fact is you can't take away the facial tic. It is part of it and it was wrong. You don't do that, especially when a few years later you are going to pretend like you respect the guy. Russo has always been full of shit, so I would expect no less.
 
dskillzhtown said:
Well...the fact is you can't take away the facial tic. It is part of it and it was wrong. You don't do that, especially when a few years later you are going to pretend like you respect the guy. Russo has always been full of shit, so I would expect no less.
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But he found Jesus and was saved!

[that's a work imo] :lol
 
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