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[TheJollyCorner]

yeah, get a life.... like the rest of us posting on a video game forum!

 

[Mrbob]

Such a idiotic post lol...the 299 dollar system is just a graphic's upgrade? What is the ps3 then? What is the revolution then?

Dude..get a life :lol

Your quoting my first post on page 6 ie over 250 posts? What is wrong with you?!?

 

[border]

What is wrong with you?!?

Junior Member

 

[Bebpo]

yup - exactly the same as the X360 version huh?

So if the games are the same, then we're down to the price of the unit.
Which sony has yet to announce.

Sony's to win, Sony's to lose.

Although Sony would have to price at more than $500 to lose and do you really believe they will price the US version at more than $500? I mean do you think there is even a 1% chance of that happening?

Why do I say $500 and not $400 like X360. Well PS3 has the wireless internet which costs you $100 on X360. So essentially a $500 PS3 would give you everything a $400+$100=$500 X360 does plus you get a blue-ray player though maybe not a hard drive.

it's just a ploy to get people to look at the packs and go for the $399.

That would make sense except that most people (well at least everyone I've ever met) have at least 2 controllers for their system so they can play with friends. That now means an added $50 on top of the system price even after MS has accomplished their ploy to get you to buy the $399 version. If the accesory prices are really just a ploy, then $399 buyers should get coupons for 50% off accesories.

If Sony releases a $450-500 PS3 with harddrive included, they've just put out a cheaper system than MS. And if the games are the same, why not go with the cheaper system?

 

[Timedog]

inflation, idiots.

 

[Zer0]

Not with the new bloke at the helm. Sony simply can't afford it. Infact, I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 is being drastically scaled down as we speak.

every xbot on full damage control speak more of the ps3 price than the current disaster with the 360,dude there is a uproar everywhere,accept it.a lot of ppl is pissed with ms about the xbox 360 pricing

 

[Mrbob]

Does the $399 package come with the play and charge kit?

 

[sangreal]

Does the $399 package come with the play and charge kit?

:lol

Of course not

 

[Mrbob]

:lol

Of course not

Figures. Wireless controller without the charger in the box. There's another 20 bucks on top....sheesh.

 

[border]

Don't forget the wireless battery pack! +$12

 

[Mrbob]

I missed that the first time.

This is so depressing. Nickel and dime consumers. The 50 dollar wireless X360 controller is really 82 dollars.....

 

[DCharlie]

"Although Sony would have to price at more than $500 to lose and do you really believe they will price the US version at more than $500? I mean do you think there is even a 1% chance of that happening?"

there are way too many things left to be sorted out - there are no guarantees yet, although i personally don't expect them to stray up to $500.

"Why do I say $500 and not $400 like X360. Well PS3 has the wireless internet which costs you $100 on X360. So essentially a $500 PS3 would give you everything a $400+$100=$500 X360 does plus you get a blue-ray player though maybe not a hard drive."

i thought the wireless internet was removed from the PS3? Or am i missing something?

"If Sony releases a $450-500 PS3 with harddrive included, they've just put out a cheaper system than MS. And if the games are the same, why not go with the cheaper system?"

indeed - add in the Bluray and it's a very simple choice. But it's still qualified , even by yourself, with "IF" - as i said, the goal is open, sony just need to slam the ball in the back of the empty net.

 

[Deleted member 284]

http://www.cafepress.com/180on360


alright, which one of you did this??!!

HAHAHAHA It was ineveitable.

"I'm going to do a 180 on the 360"

 

[Mrbob]

there are way too many things left to be sorted out - there are no guarantees yet, although i personally don't expect them to stray up to $500.



i thought the wireless internet was removed from the PS3? Or am i missing something?



indeed - add in the Bluray and it's a very simple choice. But it's still qualified , even by yourself, with "IF" - as i said, the goal is open, sony just need to slam the ball in the back of the empty net.

Wireless is still in PLAYSTATION 3. The router switcher was removed.

Besides, how expensive can wireless be? The PSP and DS have them included. MS is being over the top money grubbing gobblers. They are going way too far in the accessories IMO. The best time to buy a X360 will be after the PS3 is released because it will force MS to price stuff in line.

 

[border]

This is so depressing. Nickel and dime consumers. The 50 dollar wireless X360 controller is really 82 dollars.....

You really only have to buy the recharging cord once. So after that it's only $62 per controller!

And you get the first controller "free"....so a set of 4 is only really an additional $218 if you buy the $399 bundle! Come on bitch, you can't call yourself a hardcore gamer if you're not willing to spend some money!

 

[Mrbob]

You really only have to buy the recharging cord once. So after that it's only $62 per controller!

And you get the first controller "free"....so a set of 4 is only really an additional $218 if you buy the $399 bundle! Come on bitch, you can't call yourself a hardcore gamer if you're not willing to spend some money!

 

[Future]

You really only have to buy the recharging cord once. So after that it's only $62 per controller!

The damn controller doesn't even come with a rechargeable battery? God damn it...with even with this package you are just getting punched in the face. Still better than breaking out the lube for the ass raping that the $299 package gives you, but fuck, what a ridiculous hidden cost

 

[sangreal]

I missed that the first time.

This is so depressing. Nickel and dime consumers. The 50 dollar wireless X360 controller is really 82 dollars.....

Funny you should say that.

GI: By not including the USB charging cable with the Xbox 360 some consumers may feel like you’re nickel and diming them. If you’re giving consumers options, why don’t gamers have the option to buy a 360 that’s wireless with a rechargeable battery and cable, and not the media remote that they don’t necessarily need?

Koch: I would say that it’s not nickel and diming. Actually, we’ve put a lot of different high quality accessories in there for a great value. It’s interesting, because the whole idea of the play and charge accessory I thought was pretty brilliant in terms of just that there’s a consumer demand for that. So on the one hand they can replace batteries, “Well people will want rechargeable batteries so let’s make a SKU there. Oh wow, here’s a really clever idea. If you don’t want any downtime you can just plug it in and recharge while you’re going. Isn’t that a great product?” When you get into “Okay, so what can we put in the box?” You can’t put everything in there so you have to make some choices, right?

The media controller, it’s kind of like the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people like the remote control. We think that there’s wide use for that. DVD playback will be available out of the box with this. So you just end up having to make some choices and we think all of the accessories are good accessories, right? It’s not like one’s bad or one’s the other. But it comes down to you’ve just got to make a choice. I think from a broad appeal basis we hope the remote control will have broad appeal.

 

[sangreal]

The damn controller doesn't even come with a rechargeable battery? God damn it...with even with this package you are just getting punched in the face. Still better than breaking out the lube for the ass raping that the $299 package gives you, but fuck, what a ridiculous hidden cost

I bet it doesn't come with any batteries.

 

[Mrbob]

I bet it doesn't come with any batteries.

Naw those are in the wireless battery kit.

But it's all unassembled and you have to put it together yourself first. MS will offer you a full assembled battery for only 20 dollars more.

 

[krypt0nian]

GI: By not including the USB charging cable with the Xbox 360 some consumers may feel like you’re nickel and diming them. If you’re giving consumers options, why don’t gamers have the option to buy a 360 that’s wireless with a rechargeable battery and cable, and not the media remote that they don’t necessarily need?

Koch: I would say that it’s not nickel and diming. Actually, we’ve put a lot of different high quality accessories in there for a great value. It’s interesting, because the whole idea of the play and charge accessory I thought was pretty brilliant in terms of just that there’s a consumer demand for that. So on the one hand they can replace batteries, “Well people will want rechargeable batteries so let’s make a SKU there. Oh wow, here’s a really clever idea. If you don’t want any downtime you can just plug it in and recharge while you’re going. Isn’t that a great product?” When you get into “Okay, so what can we put in the box?” You can’t put everything in there so you have to make some choices, right?

The media controller, it’s kind of like the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people like the remote control. We think that there’s wide use for that. DVD playback will be available out of the box with this. So you just end up having to make some choices and we think all of the accessories are good accessories, right? It’s not like one’s bad or one’s the other. But it comes down to you’ve just got to make a choice. I think from a broad appeal basis we hope the remote control will have broad appeal.

I'm far far calmer now, but he is just so full of shit. In no way was including a remote more appropriate than recharge cables and a battery pack.

 

[border]

Oh and don't forget, Microsoft now controls the 3rd party peripheral market -- demanding royalties and product approval from all the companies like MadCatz, Interact, Logitech, etc. So if anyone tries to undercut them in price, they can either refuse to give them a license, or simply hike up the royalty rate to the point where it's impossible to undercut them. The royalties alone will probably make it more difficult for 3rd parties to offer low-cost alternatives....

 

[sangreal]

I'm far far calmer now, but he is just so full of shit. In no way was including a remote more appropriate than recharge cables and a battery pack.

The thing is, the remote isn't really included. Its just a limited time bonus.

 

[acklame]

GI: By not including the USB charging cable with the Xbox 360 some consumers may feel like you’re nickel and diming them. If you’re giving consumers options, why don’t gamers have the option to buy a 360 that’s wireless with a rechargeable battery and cable, and not the media remote that they don’t necessarily need?

Koch: I would say that it’s not nickel and diming. Actually, we’ve put a lot of different high quality accessories in there for a great value. It’s interesting, because the whole idea of the play and charge accessory I thought was pretty brilliant in terms of just that there’s a consumer demand for that. So on the one hand they can replace batteries, “Well people will want rechargeable batteries so let’s make a SKU there. Oh wow, here’s a really clever idea. If you don’t want any downtime you can just plug it in and recharge while you’re going. Isn’t that a great product?” When you get into “Okay, so what can we put in the box?” You can’t put everything in there so you have to make some choices, right?

The media controller, it’s kind of like the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people like the remote control. We think that there’s wide use for that. DVD playback will be available out of the box with this. So you just end up having to make some choices and we think all of the accessories are good accessories, right? It’s not like one’s bad or one’s the other. But it comes down to you’ve just got to make a choice. I think from a broad appeal basis we hope the remote control will have broad appeal.

holy crap

 

[Mrbob]

I'm far far calmer now, but he is just so full of shit. In no way was including a remote more appropriate than recharge cables and a battery pack.

Yeah MS really needs to rethink it's bundle package. Well whatever. Oblivion is more than likely still coming out for PS3 (Previews still say PC and next gen consoles) so perhaps you should hold out and see what happens before letting MS fleece you. If anything, Xbox 360 prices will get in check once PS3 is out and Oblivion will still be a AAA game.

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah MS really needs to rethink it's bundle package. Well whatever. Oblivion is more than likely still coming out for PS3 (Previews still say PC and next gen consoles) so perhaps you should hold out and see what happens before letting MS fleece you. If anything, Xbox 360 prices will get in check once PS3 is out and Oblivion will still be a AAA game.

But but....Shadowrun.... <digs heels in the sand>

Who am I fooling I'm getting all 3 consoles. I have no willpower where that's concerned.

 

[Reilly]

has anyone mentioned whether or not the 360 can even play DVD's out of the box without the remote?

 

[sangreal]

Oh and don't forget, Microsoft now controls the 3rd party peripheral market -- demanding royalties and product approval from all the companies like MadCatz, Interact, Logitech, etc. So if anyone tries to undercut them in price, they can either refuse to give them a license, or simply hike up the royalty rate to the point where it's impossible to undercut them. The royalties alone will probably make it more difficult for 3rd parties to offer low-cost alternatives....

any respectable 3rd party HW was licensed already anyway

has anyone mentioned whether or not the 360 can even play DVD's out of the box without the remote?

yes it can. But the Core System may not come with HD cables so no progressive scan out of the box

 

[border]

How about putting the shitty remote into the $299 bundle if they think they're so generous, and at least giving the battery pack to people buying the $399 bundle? If you give people the pack they will go out and buy your overpriced recharging cable....if you don't do that they may go out and buy their own AA rechargables.

 

[border]

any respectable 3rd party HW was licensed already anyway

Some were licensed but I don't think they were paying royalties...

 

[sangreal]

I still can't get over the DVD face. Talk about nickel and diming.

Not that the chrome looks good anyway

 

[Rorschach]

GI: By not including the USB charging cable with the Xbox 360 some consumers may feel like you’re nickel and diming them. If you’re giving consumers options, why don’t gamers have the option to buy a 360 that’s wireless with a rechargeable battery and cable, and not the media remote that they don’t necessarily need?

Koch: I would say that it’s not nickel and diming. Actually, we’ve put a lot of different high quality accessories in there for a great value. It’s interesting, because the whole idea of the play and charge accessory I thought was pretty brilliant in terms of just that there’s a consumer demand for that. So on the one hand they can replace batteries, “Well people will want rechargeable batteries so let’s make a SKU there. Oh wow, here’s a really clever idea. If you don’t want any downtime you can just plug it in and recharge while you’re going. Isn’t that a great product?” When you get into “Okay, so what can we put in the box?” You can’t put everything in there so you have to make some choices, right?

The media controller, it’s kind of like the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people like the remote control. We think that there’s wide use for that. DVD playback will be available out of the box with this. So you just end up having to make some choices and we think all of the accessories are good accessories, right? It’s not like one’s bad or one’s the other. But it comes down to you’ve just got to make a choice. I think from a broad appeal basis we hope the remote control will have broad appeal.

Kick ass! They are giving us so many choices! As a gamer, I want choices!

 

[IJoel]

Wait... is there a recharge/connect cable included with the Premium pack to at least be able to use the damn wireless controller when you get it?

*scratches head*

This can't be. It'd border within the realm of the stupid. I have to be wrong about it.

 

[Mrbob]

Wait... is there a recharge/connect cable included with the Premium pack to at least be able to use the damn wireless controller when you get it?

*scratches head*

This can't be. It'd border within the realm of the stupid. I have to be wrong about it.

They probably give you some cheap AA batteries in the box. Play and Charge and rechargable battery you gotta buy yourself for the low low cost of 32 additional dollars.

DON'T YOU LOVE THE CHOICE MS GIVES YOU AS A CONSUMER?!

 

[sangreal]

Wait... is there a recharge/connect cable included with the Premium pack to at least be able to use the damn wireless controller when you get it?

*scratches head*

This can't be. It'd border within the realm of the stupid. I have to be wrong about it.

Nope. If you're lucky they'll throw in some (non-rechargable) AA batteries.

 

[SonnyBoy]

I want to believe

Best thing is, ALL THE IDIOTS ON XBL will be filtered out by the high price. Less chance of a 12 year old calling me nigger fag, that alone is worth the price. Online gaming bliss for a few months. Ahhhh

That alone kept me from cancelling my preorder! :lol

 

[IJoel]

They probably give you some cheap AA batteries in the box. Play and Charge and rechargable battery you gotta buy yourself for the low low cost of 32 additional dollars.

DON'T YOU LOVE THE CHOICE MS GIVES YOU AS A CONSUMER?!

haha... When is someone from GAF interviewing these fools? Because the interviews that have been shown really don't state how obvious these "options" seem to the customer.

The other thing I wonder is if these guys from MS read forums. I'd say the response has been overwhelmingly negative.

Master Itagaki only has to place NG2 on any console now, and I jump ship for it easily.

 

[Rhindle]

Wait... is there a recharge/connect cable included with the Premium pack to at least be able to use the damn wireless controller when you get it?

*scratches head*

This can't be. It'd border within the realm of the stupid. I have to be wrong about it.

I take it all wireless controllers on the market today come with rechargable battery packs included. That's awesome I never knew that.

 

[Mrbob]

haha... When is someone from GAF interviewing these fools? Because the interviews that have been shown really don't state how obvious these "options" seem to the customer.

The other thing I wonder is if these guys from MS read forums. I'd say the response has been overwhelmingly negative.

Master Itagaki only has to place NG2 on any console now, and I jump ship for it easily.

Major Nelson website has been hammered really hard with negative comments. MS probably don't care at the moment. They are going full steam ahead with their plan win or lose. I say they lose big time but we'll see!

I do find it interesting Ninja Gaiden 2 was not mentioned by Tecmo at the Xbox summit. Makes me think the project is now on PLAYSTATION 3. Remember Itagaki wasn't too happy with MS storage format choice. With a fighting game they can get away with a game on DVD. However, an adventure game could be much bigger and Team Ninja may want to take advantage of the larger capacity Blu Ray disc....

 

[IJoel]

I take it all wireless controllers on the market today come with rechargable battery packs included. That's awesome I never knew that.

No, I understand a separate battery pack. What baffles me is the lack of some standard cable to connect the controller to the console. I mean, it only makes sense to include something like this with the premium pack that doesn't include any other way to control the box, and doesn't support old controllers.

Sure, cheap AA batteries will do for the first hours, but is a SIMPLE CABLE too much to ask for?

 

[border]

Currently all wireless Xbox controllers ship with AA batteries. But then again, they only cost $25-$30 each.

 

[vatstep]

I'm far far calmer now, but he is just so full of shit. In no way was including a remote more appropriate than recharge cables and a battery pack.

The whole battery pack and "play and charge kit" is fucking retarded. I said it in another thread, but why the hell are these things being sold separately? The rechargable battery pack is proprietary and needs a cable to charge it. That cable, when plugged in without a rechargable battery pack (say, if you didn't buy one), will not charge any AA batteries - it simply turns a wireless controller into a wired one. Why the hell would you want to do that? Chances are, if you own wireless controlers, YOU LIKE WIRELESS CONTROLLERS. Oh wait, maybe it's because you ran out of AAs! Well, to circumvent this, I guess you'd better spend $32 to buy two SEPARATE accessories!

Of everything, I think the controllers are what piss me off the most. Now we have to buy accessories for accessories. Ridiculous.

 

[M3wThr33]

That alone kept me from cancelling my preorder! :lol

So instead of getting lower middle class people bitching at you, now you have upper middle class wiggers getting out of private school each day to liven up your life.

 

[HokieJoe]

I fear that with all the money that Sony made with the PS brand they will be able to take some loss and put the PS3 with a decent price and even with a HD

Eh, I wouldn't go that far. Here's a couple of articles on Sony's problems in one of their stalwart sectors- TV's:

Time For Sony To Call The TV Repairman
Can new Chairman Stringer stop the bleeding from its largest division?
BusinessWeek online
Time was, Sony Corp. was an unbeatable force in televisions. Its Trinitron TVs ruled the business for decades, with consumers worldwide willing to fork over a premium for Sony's quality guarantee. That makes the company's July 28 revision of its profit forecast even harder for its execs to stomach. Sony said it expects to earn just $270 million this fiscal year, down from an earlier forecast of $1.4 billion. The primary culprit for Sony's woes, it turns out, is its TV business.

That's a big problem, given that TVs today make up about a third of Sony's overall sales, up from 15% a decade ago. Since 2000, consumers have rapidly shifted to flat-panel models, but Sony was slow to see the trend. Although the company started working on LCD and plasma screens in the 1970s, in the '80s and '90s its managers were focused on building up the movie business and were wary of investing in new factories.

Meanwhile, rivals such as Samsung, Sharp, and Matsushita got a head start on the new technology. As sales of flat panels boomed, Sony's share of the global TV market shrank from more than 10% in the late '90s to 6.5% last year. "Sony is in trouble because it was late in launching flat-panel TVs," says Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koya Tabata.

That puts lots of pressure on Howard Stringer, Sony's new chairman. As the Welshman, who took over the company in June, formulates a strategy for rescuing Sony, turning around TVs should top his to-do list. "Stringer will need to change the structure of Sony's TV business faster than planned," says Merrill Lynch & Co. analyst Hitoshi Kuriyama.

Stringer isn't scheduled to announce details of his overhaul until September, but already some basic outlines are clear. Sony plans to close a cathode-ray-tube TV plant in Britain. And it is rushing new HDTVs to market, while launching a major ad campaign that emphasizes their clear, bright pictures. Soon, the company expects to install in its high-end televisions a newfangled processor to improve high-definition images, called the Cell chip, that Sony developed with IBM and Toshiba Corp.

"THE COLLAPSE OF PRICING"

At the same time it rethinks its TV business, Sony continues to cut overall costs. In the past two years the company has eliminated more than 15,000 jobs, saving about $3 billion. Sony says it will spend an additional $791 million on restructuring this year, and analysts predict 10,000 more jobs could be cut.

Even so, Sony's TV division remains deeply troubled. This fiscal year, Sony expects to sell 2.5 million LCD TVs, up from 1 million last year, and 1.4 million rear-projection LCD TVs, up from 650,000 in 2004. But in the April-June quarter alone, prices for LCD TV sets in the U.S. dropped by nearly 50%. The unit will likely lose $1.3 billion this year, Mizuho Securities figures.

Though the U.S. market is relatively solid, "we're in a peculiar situation because of the collapse of pricing," says Dick Komiyama, president of Sony Electronics Inc. Nomura Securities Co. estimates that Sony's TVs cost 3% more to make than they bring in from sales. And Merrill Lynch asserts that Sony's strategy of undercutting Sharp's and Matsushita's prices for flat-panel TVs in Japan by at least 10% risks tainting Sony as a discount brand in its home market.

Despite the TV unit's problems, few think Stringer will spin it off. The division is just too important, and Merrill estimates that Sony pours $1.3 billion a year into research and development. Stringer has said he prefers to integrate the conglomerate's fractured units and look for an "opportunity down the road" that might let Sony wed its music and movies to consumer electronics. If he doesn't fix the TV business, though, Sony will find that road mighty bumpy.

Rivals Blurring Sony Distinction
Despite cachet, brand struggles to differentiate itself as low-cost TV makers narrow the gap in quality
By Alex Pham Los Angeles Times Staff Writer August 15, 2005
Keith Kaplan loves his two Sony televisions, one of which has served him well for a dozen years and continues to chug away in his bedroom in Santa Monica. But when the 47-year-old limousine service owner decided last week to treat himself with a high-definition flat-screen TV, he picked a Panasonic.

"I couldn't find any Sony TVs I liked," said Kaplan, who plunked down $3,500 at the Best Buy in West Los Angeles for the 42-inch plasma set. "This one just had the best picture, and it was a good price."

Kaplan isn't alone among customers who are turning away from Sony Corp. for their TV purchases.

In the shift from cathode ray tube TVs to flat-panel displays, nimbler rivals have nibbled away at Sony's dominance, narrowing the gap in quality and aggressively undercutting the Tokyo-based electronics giant on price.

"Sony's products have always commanded a price premium because it was Sony," said analyst Michelle Abraham of In-Stat, a market research firm in Scottsdale, Ariz. "But consumers' willingness to pay that premium is eroding…. You can no longer assume that the other brands aren't going to be as good. It's an ongoing issue that Sony will have to face."

That's a dramatic shift from the days when Sony's Trinitron sets garnered as much as 50% of the high-end television market and represented about 20% of all TV sets sold, according to market research firm Envisioneering Group in Seaford, N.Y.

Sony still commands considerable clout and market share in the $77-billion global TV business. The company sold $8.9 billion worth of TVs in the fiscal year ended March 31, up 3.4% from the year before; that represented 13% of total revenue.

But the company has struggled lately to keep up with a raft of low-cost competitors operating in China, Taiwan and South Korea, especially in the market for large flat-screen sets. Indeed, Sony last month blamed sour first-quarter financial results on its TV business, which suffered a 21% drop in revenue from a year earlier.

Company executives acknowledged that they were caught flat-footed when TV prices fell far more this year than they had projected. The price plunge has prompted Sony to lower its overall sales projection for its full fiscal year by 3% to $67.8 billion and its net income forecast to $93.5 million, down 88% from its April estimate.

Sony Chief Financial Officer Nobuyuki Oneda, in announcing last quarter's results, said prices plunged across the world in all TV technologies. Prices for TVs with liquid crystal displays, or LCDs, are expected to drop 50% in Europe this year, he said. In the United States and Japan, the declines are projected to be 20% and 30%, respectively.

Although Sony has deeply disounted its prices, competitors have cut even more.

According to a price survey by El Segundo market research company ISuppli, a Sony 42-inch plasma TV in the three months ended June 30 cost $2,699 to $4,000. That compares with $1,600 to $1,700 for a similar set from Maxent, a brand of Regent Inc., a company based in City of Industry with factories in China and Taiwan.

"Consumers have shown that they are increasingly comfortable with buying lesser-known brands, especially when they see price differences of $1,000 or more," ISuppli analyst Riddhi Patel said.

To be sure, Sony isn't the only brand-name company to take its lumps. Take the fast-growing market for LCDs, for example, in which unit shipments more than doubled in the last year. Segment leader Sharp Electronics Corp. saw its global unit market share dip to 23% in the three months through March, down from 42% a year earlier. At the same time, the dozen or so obscure names in the "other" category, including Maxent, boosted their combined share to 43% from 28%.

"Over the last four to six quarters, we've had a whole bunch of value brands emerge," Patel said. "Most of them are Taiwanese and Chinese."

Some analysts say the Sony brand, though still strong, has less cachet than it used to. That creates opportunities for companies such as Dell Inc., the No. 1 personal computer maker, to sell low-priced plasma and LCD TVs sight unseen through its online store. Because Dell sells directly to consumers and does not need to share profit with retailers, it can generally offer lower prices.

"In our research over the years, we've found that the number of people who make their technology buying decisions based on brand goes down every year, while the number who base it on price goes up every year," said Josh Bernoff, analyst with Forrester Research in Cambridge, Mass. "The advent of Dell shows that people aren't as brand conscious. Dell caters to people who want value."

The emphasis on value presents a challenge for Sony, whose traditional approach has stressed high quality at a price premium. But with TV components increasingly coming from a handful of common suppliers, standing out from the crowd becomes more difficult.

"While Sony continues to have a good reputation for innovation, it's become harder to maintain differentiation in the big-screen TV segment because they're all starting to look alike," Bernoff said. "That's because many of the components for these sets are often manufactured in the same places."

That's the case with Sony's plasma TVs. Sony has had to buy its plasma screens from South Korean and Chinese suppliers and thus rely on what is essentially generic technology. In the first three months of this year, Sony ranked fifth in the segment, behind Panasonic owner Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Samsung Electronics Co., LG Electronics Inc. and Philips Electronics.

Until recently, Sony had to turn to outside manufacturers for its liquid crystal display screens as well. Its share of the market — 9.4% in the first three months of the year by ISuppli's estimates — was less than half of Sharp's.

Sony executives say they are taking steps to regain their footing. They are placing their bets this year on LCD and even higher-resolution rear-projection microdisplay TVs, the one sector in which the company has consistently dominated.

Seeking growth in the LCD market, Sony has invested $1 billion in a joint venture with Samsung for a plant in South Korea that manufactures the screens. Sony, which in July began shipping TVs with panels from the plant, expects to ramp up production heading into the crucial holiday and Super Bowl selling season.

"This will be the fastest-growing segment of our product line," said Greg Gudorf, vice president of television marketing for Sony's U.S. electronics business in San Diego.

Sony also is shoring up its lead in rear-projection microdisplay TVs by incorporating a high-end chip technology it had initially reserved for its ultra-premium sets costing $13,000 or more. Silicon X-tal reflective display, as it is called, delivers 2 million pixels to the screen, resulting in twice the detail available in standard high-definition sets. Sony plans to employ the technology in its 50-inch and 60-inch microdisplay TVs this fall for $4,000 and $5,000, respectively, Gudorf said.

Analysts expect Sony to further sharpen its product focus when new Chief Executive Howard Stringer releases the company's reorganization plan, as he is expected to do next month.

"Once the dust settles from Stringer's announcement in September, we're likely to see from Sony a much more carefully and narrowly drawn set of priorities," said Mark Stahlman, an analyst with New York investment bank Caris & Co.

When the business of TV sets was centered on cathode ray tubes, "Sony dominated," said Tamaryn Pratt, principal analyst at Quixel Research in Portland, Ore. "Now there are so many different technologies that it's no longer possible for one manufacturer to dominate all of them.

"The markets are divided now. Panasonic drives the plasma business. Sharp owns the LCD market. For Sony, it's microdisplays. Because it's so expensive to build these factories, it's extremely difficult to dominate in every single technology."

Although Sony will continue to face tough competition and further price erosion, Pratt said, the company has notable strengths, including significant marketing and engineering resources and a top-notch brand.

"If you look at where Sony has decided to put its efforts, in microdisplays, they rule the market," Pratt said. "Now Sony has decided to invest in LCDs. It's quite possible they can go back and own the TV business again in those two areas."

Obviously, these are gloom and doom pieces; but it's not completely yellow-dog journalism either. Sony does have financial problems right now, so I wouldn't expect them to absorb much of a loss on the PS3.

 

[HokieJoe]

Oh, and I'll be putting on a brand new $400 jacket come November.

 

[border]

They are definitely having some trouble but their electronics division is the only one reporting losses. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them taking a loss on the hardware since it's really their ace-in-the-hole for establishing BluRay. If they can get that off the ground they can collect nice royalties on it for perhaps the better part of a decade. It's not like DVD on PS2, where they had a smaller stake in the technology and the format had already established itself.

 

[HokieJoe]

Yeah, if your a complete retard.

Try;

http://www.pricewatch.com/

They have X800pro's for as cheap as 200$ The brand new X850 platinum is 399.00 the exact same price as the 360, and it doesn't come with a hard drive either.

Matter of fact, check out thier prices on 20gig harddrives as well. The 100$ 20-gig harddrive is fucking dumb as shit, and no self-respecting person will EVER say otherwise.

Yeah, I've played the pricewatch, err, Russian Roulette game before. Newegg is without peer when it comes to price AND service. Half of those flunkies on pricewatch are fly-by-nighters.

I learned my lesson the hard way. I used to buy stuff wholesale through a company located in Ohio (Micropro). Well, they went out of business. Guess who got stuck with the warrantee work?

It was my own fault though. I should've stuck with somone more reputable.

 

[sonycowboy]

has anyone mentioned whether or not the 360 can even play DVD's out of the box without the remote?

yes it can. But the Core System may not come with HD cables so no progressive scan out of the box

Are you sure about that? This makes it seem like the media controller is necessary just like this generation. Still don't wanna pay that nasty DVD consortium?

The media controller, it’s kind of like the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A lot of people like the remote control. We think that there’s wide use for that. DVD playback will be available out of the box with this. So you just end up having to make some choices and we think all of the accessories are good accessories, right? It’s not like one’s bad or one’s the other. But it comes down to you’ve just got to make a choice. I think from a broad appeal basis we hope the remote control will have broad appeal.

 

[sangreal]

Are you sure about that? This makes it seem like the media controller is necessary just like this generation. Still don't wanna pay that nasty DVD consortium?

Its possible they have changed their minds and are requiring the remote (they've certainly shown they have no fear of change), but I doubt it. I think you're reading into that statement too much.

edit:

Xbox 360 console: As with the premium edition, three powerful core processors pump out 720p/1080i output, 16x9 cinematic aspect ratio, anti-aliasing for smooth textures, full surround sound, and DVD playback right out of the box.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/news/2005/0817-xbox360launchdetails.htm

 

[Cormacaroni]

*sigh*

I suppose I'd better hand in the old jacket then....just to be on the safe side, i'd better check the pockets first....

What's this? Lots of cash money?! Hoorah! Think I'll hold onto this a bit longer! :lol