Okamoto and Mizuguchi comments on Xenon/Xbox2 development
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
When I played Resident Evil 4 in an area where people could watch, there were literally about 12 people behind me and every single one of us jumping when I'd turn and there'd be a zombie/whatever about to get me. I'd imagine God of War would have a similar effect -- no surprise that they're the two best games this year and arguably better than anything last year.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
The whole quote is even bettersp0rsk said:
"One thing that gamers shouldn't expect from Sakaguchi are games that play like watching a movie, which is exactly what he criticized about recent console offerings. Sakaguchi commented that modern games let bystanders get as excited as the player. But considering they're interactive, Sakaguchi believes that games are really supposed to be something that only the person who's playing should be able to completely understand and enjoy, which is what he expects his games on the next-gen Xbox to be like." :rock
The Abominable Snowman said:The whole quote is even better
"One thing that gamers shouldn't expect from Sakaguchi are games that play like watching a movie, which is exactly what he criticized about recent console offerings. Sakaguchi commented that modern games let bystanders get as excited as the player. But considering they're interactive, Sakaguchi believes that games are really supposed to be something that only the person who's playing should be able to completely understand and enjoy, which is what he expects his games on the next-gen Xbox to be like." :rock
So basically a game with low production values, that's text-only, and is an SRPG.
Wyzdom said:
It depends on the genre.
Really, Sakaguchi is making an rpg.
rpgs that are enjoyable to the audience = story/adventure rpgs.
rpgs that are only enjoyable to the player = dungeon-crawler, stat-based rpgs.
I dunno, people like to bitch and complain and put up pitch forks everytime 'watching' and rpgs are mentioned. But there is really nothing wrong with watching cutscenes in an rpg. They've been doing it since the days of the NES except now you don't have to hit the A button to advance the speech. Look at FFXII which is by Matsuno-gameplay-master, yet it's still filled with tons of non-interactive cutscenes to advance the story (at least from the E3 version). Would people really prefer all the cutscenes cut from FFXII and instead have the story just told through text boxes when walking up to people and hitting O!? Even BoFV which is a DUNGEON CRAWLER has a solid amount of "watching a movie" style cutscenes.
Sorry, but non-interactive parts are a staple of the rpg genre. They are a good thing IMO and when people try to rally behind "down with story-filled rpgs!" I have to say please find another genre and stop trying to fuck up rpgs for the rest of us.
Drinky Crow
Banned
How are they a good thing? Rent a fucking anime instead.
They're doubly insulting because they're all poorly written and terribly choreographed, to boot. Most of 'em just prey on the anime fetishism of the average gaming geek.
They're doubly insulting because they're all poorly written and terribly choreographed, to boot. Most of 'em just prey on the anime fetishism of the average gaming geek.
Drinky Crow said:
or watch a movie or whatever, games are an independent medium, i wish developers would stop trying to turn them into things they arent.
Games can have storylines, thats fine, every game needs some sort of context. But the games should be gameplay first story second ALWAYS. ESPECIALLY rpgs.
OMG! Sakaguchi criticizing his very own Final Fantasy games??? :lol If this is the reason he quit Square Enix, he deserves a medal. Or a cookie.
Bebpo, i'm not sure, but I think you're insinuating that the trend of RPGs towards becoming more like interactice anime than role playing character/party development adventures is a good thing. I'm going to have to disagree strongly on that. I'm sure casual people love the idea of it (most FF7 fans I know, love it because it is an example of "an anime game"), but people who long for a real RPG experience will be missing out.
I disagree. a video game is still a video game and every Final Fantasy game that had shitty gameplay is still shitty (such as FF8).
The ONLY reason anime fans and casual gamers have jumped onto the "story first gameplay last" bandwagon with console RPGs is because they don't like RPG gameplay and enjoy being spoonfed non-interactive cut-scenes. Their ideal RPGs are the Xenosagas that are a walk in the park with no emphasis on the gameplay at all.
So I find it hilariously ridiculous that so-called RPG experts would be lambasting RPG gameplay in favor of story driven tripe.
I think Sakaguchi should really shut the fuck up and stop doing any interviews or making outlandish or otherwise blanket statements about modern gaming until he actually produces something remotely impressive. The man hasn't made ANYTHING of interest in the past 10 years, with his last real contribution to anything significant being Chrono Trigger. And for a guy that directed the Final Fantasy movie, he really shouldn't be saying anything about games looking like movies since he doesn't even know what a good one is.
So here's how it is, until Sakaguchi proves that he's not full of shit and actually worth something of value, Sakaguchi can stfu, and people on GAF defending him can stfu too? Deal?
So here's how it is, until Sakaguchi proves that he's not full of shit and actually worth something of value, Sakaguchi can stfu, and people on GAF defending him can stfu too? Deal?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
I think what he means is that the game will have a lot of complexities, and will be moreso realtime. It'll be awesome for the person playing, but the person watching will probably be like "Put in final fantasy 13, bitch!"
I'm not giving him any credit, but I do find irony in the way he criticizes games that play like the last few Final Fantasy games he produced.
However as Richard Garriott-ish as he is, he has way more potential to make a stellar game than Yoshinori "I should be making movies" Kitase.
Pellham said:
LOL. Yeah I'll agree on that. No doubt that man does have an idea of how games work, but I simply fail to see the interest generated here because as far as the gaming world is concerned he's a has-been. For someone to speak and criticize "modern gaming" so openly, I would at least expect him to have had a significant role in a recent project that shows he's against all that, but no, his last project as a FULL CGI MOVIE BASED ON A GAME BRAND NAME. So really, the hypocrisy stinks quite a bit here.
Pellham said:
I wasn't saying that. I was simply stating that non-interactive cutscenes have been in rpgs since NES through paragraphs of text bubbles. They are part of the genre, even at its roots. Rather than saying people who started with FF7 like cutscenes, I'd personally reverse that and say that people who've been playing Japanese rpgs since their introduction accept storytelling cutscenes and don't mind non-interactive cutscenes in modern games. It seems more like the anti-cutscene gamers are those coming from other genres (Western rpgs, srpgs, diablo games) who've jumped in last generation or this generation and are upset that Japanese rpgs aren't like their favorite games in other genre.
Japanese rpgs != Western rpgs. It's like how Sim racers != Arcade racers and this whole complaining about cutscenes comes off like Arcade racing fans being upset that you can't use stop on a dime and make 100foot jumps in GT4.
And I'll state it again. Do rpg fans not want games like BoFV, FFXII, or Grandia III? If so, what kind of rpgs do you really want next generation?
Being able to experience a game compellingly in multiple ways (not just in both an active and passive way, but also in both a visual and aural way, etc.) is definitely a sign of cohesive design, but the game's not really taking advantage of all that its individual elements afford if only the same experience is reflected no matter which way the user is exposed.
If bystanders like the game, RPG or not. It only gives a clue about this:
- that the game is pretty / good grahics.
- there's eye catching action.
- cut-scene or story scene are catchy and/or also well-done.
None of those indicates me the game is good. MANY games are ALOT more interesting when you watch someone play it instead of playing. This means alot imo, it shouldn't be like that. If a bystander like a game you play, it does not mean the game is good and i thought it was a given... I wonder no more why graphic sells, this world is all about image isn't it?
- that the game is pretty / good grahics.
- there's eye catching action.
- cut-scene or story scene are catchy and/or also well-done.
None of those indicates me the game is good. MANY games are ALOT more interesting when you watch someone play it instead of playing. This means alot imo, it shouldn't be like that. If a bystander like a game you play, it does not mean the game is good and i thought it was a given... I wonder no more why graphic sells, this world is all about image isn't it?
Sounds like he's making turn based games to me, which should come as no great supprised as it's an RPG.
Tbh Im not a big fan of games where i have to be alone to play them (If they arent enjoyable to watch then i feel bad for people who have to sit there with me). Not a big fan of turn based jap RPGs either so i think i'll try and avoid the hype train for Sakaguchi's 360 games.
It sounds to me like he's referring to games the action in games like RE4 and MGS3 & Mercenaries, i know those games are watchable because i sat and watched someone play MGS3 for an hour last week (and ive wached various people play mercenaries for countless hours), it really is just as much fun as playing. Ive always thought as turn based RPGs (even ones i do like) as games best played alone, because someone watching isnt interested in how you distribute your level up points or which new skill you are gonna get or that your new sword does 15 more damage per attack. Basically in RPGs you tend to spend a lot of time out of 'action' in menus or running around to shops that you'll only find interesting if you are playing the game and you know why your doing it.
Disclaimer: I never said that RPGs were boring or more boring than any other type of game.
I see what your saying redbeard, that he's saying he wants the player to have input into the game so it means more to him than anyone who is just watching, you are probably right. Still sounds like what he's been doing for the last god knows how many years to me though.
Disclaimer: I never said that RPGs were boring or more boring than any other type of game.
I see what your saying redbeard, that he's saying he wants the player to have input into the game so it means more to him than anyone who is just watching, you are probably right. Still sounds like what he's been doing for the last god knows how many years to me though.
FortNinety
Member
Lazy8s said:
I miss Eno.
That is completely wrong imo. There were games on the SNES and before that were like this. Prince of persia comes to mind. I had a friend that refused to play it but loved watching it. But as the player, it rocks on many more levels.
I think the next step if any is to make those bystanders not be satisfied with just watching the game, but rather want to try the game and have the ease of the NES and Atari 2600 controller to get into. This is what I want the Revolution to be like, have the awesome gameplay but look at the controller of the guy playing it and think "hey I can do that!".
"Sakaguchi commented that modern games let bystanders get as excited as the player."
And that's wrong ? That's exactly how Final Fantasy VII sold more copies in America than in Japan -- the game looked fucking good and because of that, lots of people bought it. Of course, great word of mouth didn't hurt either.
And that's wrong ? That's exactly how Final Fantasy VII sold more copies in America than in Japan -- the game looked fucking good and because of that, lots of people bought it. Of course, great word of mouth didn't hurt either.
Hopefully what we've learned from this thread is that Sakaguchi is a fancy talker but he hasn't done much in years besides making a movie that bombed and drinking a lot of lemon teas on a beach in hawaii. He may very well make the greatest rpg ever and shake the entire gaming world at its foundations, but he could also be senile and make a game about crossing streets that combined frogger with a dungeon crawler.
Had Mark Rein said this, he would've been blasted to pieces by most of this forum for being nothing but a graphics gimp. But Mizuguchi says this and it's no big deal, heh.
No real need to talk about Sakaguchi's comments, as most have already pointed out the hypocrisy with 'em (who knows, maybe he's had an epiphany). It's also ridiculously flawed logic. Quite frankly, the best skill-based games should look incredible to onlookers. For those who are old enough to remember, look back at the arcade when it was in it's prime. You're telling me the crowds that watched people duke it out in SF2, MK2, VF2, Tekken 2, SF Alpha or Darkstalkers was a bad thing? That there's something distressing about people who witnessing players ripping shit up in Ridge Racer or Daytona? Come on.
One of the most rewarding game experiences I've ever had was dropping twenty bones at two bucks a play into a Sega Rally 2 machine at the auto show in Subaru's booth a few years ago (the money went to charity), and ripping through the game while bystanders looked on with excitement and delight. And there's something wrong with that? Heh, fuck that noise. Gaming is a form of entertainment, and how you entertain people doesn't need to be rigidly defined.
The problem with today's hardcore gamer is that they're trying to pigeonhole everything about gaming into their own set of values, and that anything that stands opposed to that isn't real gaming. That's akin to a music fan acting like every piece of music should be classic rock, otherwise it's useless shit. It's simply arrogant thinking, and shows that when it comes to gaming intelligence and maturity, the hardcore types are the ones that are truly the dumb twats.
FortNinety said:I miss Eno.
Oh you haven't heard? He's back in it! Check out these first pics of Real Sound 3...
Welcome to HD Era.
Actually, hearing Miz speak about the next Xbox is really the only thing that has me interested in it. I'm blindly accepting the fact that I'll have finally upgraded my seven year old television by the time his Xbox effort comes out.