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[TheSpecialOne]

I'm wondering if there is a single person in this thread who, if put in the officer's position, WOULDN'T have shot. So, so easy to sit at a keyboard and judge. "Even I can see he didn't have a gun!" Yeah, okay. Try it when you're scared out of your fucking mind and a guy is running at you, screaming how he won't be taken alive.

There are plenty of bad shootings in America, we absolutely need to get better at deescalation and prosecuting bad cops. But we can believe that and still understand that these guys are asked to do the impossible sometimes.

No they really aren't. When your cops lack the necessary education needed to approach situations like this, then you get rubbish excuses like the quoted part above. Combine that with a terrible justice system and you have america in it's current state. This is without touching on numerous pressing issues including a large amount of under-educated citizens.

 

[TarNaru33]

It's going to be extremely hard to justify the extra shots.

And when the guy is on his knees, hands on the floor and the cop lets off one more shot? Where does that fall under?

Because if there is a threat that requires lethal force, cops are usually taught to shoot to kill?

Lol... This folks is why cops are rarely convicted of any wrongdoing when it comes to killing people who aren't exactly life-threatening in the moment.

Then you got people saying "suicide by cop" which shouldn't even be a thing. It shows how jumping police get and how quick they are to use lethal force if you can suicide by cop without actually being threatening.

What video did you watch?

He had just rammed the cop, then shouted "you're going to have to kill me nigger" at the cop with his hands sticking out.

I'm going suicide by cop at that point, he didn't want to get taken in.

He also kept his gun pointed at him because he was clearly in shock about what just happened.

This does not matter so long as the cop's life is not in actual danger. This guy did not have a gun in hand and it was clear through that video with bad resolution.

 

[outsida]

What the fuck man....

 

[neurosisxeno]

This is not true. I don't really want to go looking for the unpleasant videos from worst-case scenarios to show you you're wrong, but they're out there.

If your intent is to kill them, the last thing you want is to alert them to that fact.

I haven't seen a lot of evidence to support that claim. A majority of the dash cam and body cam footage I've seen of cops being shot at is as I described it--people with a disregard for their own lives trying to get the jump on the Cops. The most reported killings of cops tend to be NYPD officers, 4 of whom were killed in 2015. Of those 4, 2 were executed (famously reported in) while they were in their cruiser, 1 was shot as I described (officers pulled up alongside to talk to him and he immediately fired at them), and 1 was killed during an exchange of gunfire after a gangfight was interrupted.

The point I was trying to make is, generally people want to get the jump on officers, and in 3 of the 4 NYPD officers cases, that was true. This guy ran out of his car into the open, where he would have no way to hid his intent, which to me isn't exactly threatening.

 

[KazenY2J]

Officers say Henson pointed his hand in the shape of a gun, saying, "You're going to have to kill me," according to CBS affiliate KOTV. They say officer Robert Reynolds thought it was a real gun when he fired, killing Henson.

Wow.
Not even surprised at this point.

 

[spiderman123]

Hmm this is a tricky one. The guy is clearly unstable, ramming into police officer and wanting to have a death wish. Given the unpredictability of the victim, adrenaline and genuine fear, I would say that that would this is most likely result.

It is hard for me to condemn the police officers in this case given the circumstances.

 

[eerik9000]

Suicide by cop.

Yeah. Looks like suicide by cop.

WTF is this shit? First time I've ever heard this nonsense. Another justification of police killings in USA? Officer's duty is to protect the people, not to help them with suicide.

 

[HariKari]

WTF is this shit? First time I've ever heard this nonsense. Another justification of police killings in USA? Officer's duty is to protect the people, not to help them with suicide.

It means to put officers in a position where they have no real choice but to use lethal force. Like purposefully acting like you're going to pull out a gun after having been told not to move and to comply. Really the first time you've heard of such a thing?

 

[seanoff]

Just reading the Washington Post police killings database. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Choose unarmed

The unarmed ones have some really disturbing details in there.

"David Kassick, an unarmed 59-year-old white man, was shot on Feb. 2, 2015, in Hummelstown, Pa. A Hummelstown police officer shocked Kassick with a Taser and then shot him twice in the back as he lay on the ground."
https://youtu.be/jP-xXO1vuaw

She got off. FML. He was on the ground face down with his hands clasped behind his head and she offed him.


Naked people, people armed with obviously deadly broomsticks, people walking at police cars, people running away, etc


It's really out of order. It appears that shooting people is the only option. Saves time I suppose.

Something needs to change.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Cops are not required to assist people with suicide.

Not required, but glad to oblige.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

And people act surprised when violence against police is rising?

Disgusting.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Not required, but glad to oblige.

I see this post and then in another thread I see people confused and outraged when someone unstable feels hopeless enough to take matters into their own hands.

You're not helping

Or are you happy that cops are getting indiscriminately shot because of the uniform their wearing?

Most are good people. Your kind of posts are what help the cop shooters justify their actions.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm wondering if there is a single person in this thread who, if put in the officer's position, WOULDN'T have shot.

I wouldn't have.

when you're scared out of your fucking mind

If you're prone to being scared out of your fucking mind, prob time to look for a new line of work. This particular line of work requires a steady head at all times or people die. His job is to protect people as much as he can; even those that need protection from themselves. Not to execute.

and a guy is running at you

He was quite clearly running AWAY from this officer, so this didn't happen at all. His hands had been extended. He was clearly unarmed. Perhaps our officer needs a vision test.

 

[The Kree]

I see this post and then in another thread I see people confused and outraged when someone unstable feels hopeless enough to take matters into their own hands.

You're not helping

Or are you happy that cops are getting indiscriminately shot because of the uniform their wearing?

Most are good people. Your kind of posts are what help the cop shooters justify their actions.

Nah, cops don't need NeoGAF posters to help them justify murder. They have the criminal justice system for that.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

You *may* be able to make an argument in favour of the cop firing when the guy swings his arm out. However that's all thrown out of the window when the cop gets that last shot in and executes the guy while he struggles to get up off the ground, clearly with no weapon on his person. Scum of the earth right there.

 

[msv]

Can people stop with the suicide by cop as a defense for a shooting? AFAIK impromptu euthanasia is no different than normal murder, still very much illegal. It only indicates the victim's state of mind and motives, it has nothing to do with if the actions of the shooter are warranted or not. That can only be judged by the situation itself, not the motives.

So if someone screams kill me, kill me, and then does something that is obviously not a real threat, that doesn't mean in the slightest that a shooting would be OK. In any way.

 

[Pantaghana]

It's events like these that highlight just how poorly trained the US police force is.

US police training differs from state to state, but on average it's about 6 months.

In Europe it differs from country to country, but on average it's 3 years.

 

[Ratrat]

Suicide by cop is by far the most embarassing excuse I keep hearing. The fact that its a guaranteed way of dying and that people think its normal is horrifying.

 

[Galactic Barret]

What irks me the most is, the guy is obviously dead, but when backup shows, you're yelling "Don't fucking move!", as if you haven't already eliminated the perceived threat by pumping 4 shots into him. He wasn't going to fucking move, officer. He was fucking dead.

 

[kottila]

I live in a relatively small city (200k) on the west coast of Norway. To become a police officer a bachelor degree in "policing" is required, it consist of two years theoretical and one year embedded in a police force.

The police here hardly ever has to use their weapons, but when they do, they seem do handle it differently to how the US police handles things. If threatened, they don't immediately shoot to kill, but fire warning shots or stand down to let the situation cool down. If forced to fire, they don't necessarily shoot to kill, although the american police and Neogaf claims that is practically impossible to do.
A summary of the police shootings over the last years, which all would probably have resulted in a death in the US.

- A few days ago the police had to respond to a mentally ill person with a gun threatened to shoot himself. After long term negotiations broke down, the police decided to enter his apartment where they were fired upon. The police shot the guy in the arm and hand.

Quote from the police afterwards: – This is a serious case of a person who is not well. We had to try and take care of him aswell.

- In 2002 a man attempted to rape and threatened to kill his landlord with a knife. She eascaped naked and bleeding, but he went out and grabbed a 12 year old kid to hold as hostage before the police arrived. After hours of negotiation they had to go in, and the police shot him twice in the legs.

- In 2010 a man was cooped up in his house with a gun and refused to come out. When he finally appeared he waived his gun at the police. They fired a warning shot which "of course wasn't aimed at the man". The case was resolved peacefully later.

- Also in 2010 a man charged two women with a knife. When they found the mans house, the police rang the door bell, but withdrew when the man came out and waived the knife at them. He went back in, but came out again later in a threatening way which lead to a warning shot being fired. Again he went back inside and was later convinced by family members to surrender peacefully.

 

[The Kree]

Suicide by cop is by far the most embarassing excuse I keep hearing. The fact that its a guaranteed way of dying and that people think its normal is horrifying.

Yeah.

Hey, I wanna die. How should I go about this? Oh, I know, I'll just throw myself at a cop.

And it's kinda lost on some people that we shouldn't be thinking of standing in front of a cop the same way we think of standing in front of a speeding train. But it's like, eh, whatcha gonna do? Cops be killin', yo.

 

[Pantaghana]

...If forced to fire, they don't necessarily shoot to kill, although the american police and Neogaf claims that is practically impossible to do...

Shooting to wound is problematic because it's still possible to kill someone by hitting in non-vital spots. Read up on hydrostatic shock, for one example out of many.

 

[jfoul]

Suicide by cop is by far the most embarassing excuse I keep hearing. The fact that its a guaranteed way of dying and that people think its normal is horrifying.

Yeah, pretty sad it is even a thing.

 

[eerik9000]

It means to put officers in a position where they have no real choice but to use lethal force. Like purposefully acting like you're going to pull out a gun after having been told not to move and to comply. Really the first time you've heard of such a thing?

I'm from a small country where police officers don't go running around shooting people, let alone killing them. So yes, I had never heard of it before. It shouldn't come as a suprise to me, seeing major news of police killings in the US on a weekly basis, but it somehow did.

Seeing that video... it's obviously a wider problem if the officer's first thought was to kill him before he had a chance to do anything. I mean, without any previous confirmation of the man having a firearm.

 

[Jombie]

"He had a gun pointed at me!"

Yeah, he clearly had a gun when the cop fucking shot him again while he was halfway to the ground.

 

[MUnited83]

I'm wondering if there is a single person in this thread who, if put in the officer's position, WOULDN'T have shot. So, so easy to sit at a keyboard and judge. "Even I can see he didn't have a gun!" Yeah, okay. Try it when you're scared out of your fucking mind and a guy is running at you, screaming how he won't be taken alive.

There are plenty of bad shootings in America, we absolutely need to get better at deescalation and prosecuting bad cops. But we can believe that and still understand that these guys are asked to do the impossible sometimes.

If police officers are expected to be as competent as random forum posters, then your police force is unbelievably broken and extremely terrible.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

"I don't know if he has a gun, he pointed it at me"

Read that a few times.

 

[gamechanger87]

I live in a relatively small city (200k) on the west coast of Norway. To become a police officer a bachelor degree in "policing" is required, it consist of two years theoretical and one year embedded in a police force.

The police here hardly ever has to use their weapons, but when they do, they seem do handle it differently to how the US police handles things. If threatened, they don't immediately shoot to kill, but fire warning shots or stand down to let the situation cool down. If forced to fire, they don't necessarily shoot to kill, although the american police and Neogaf claims that is practically impossible to do.
A summary of the police shootings over the last years, which all would probably have resulted in a death in the US.

- A few days ago the police had to respond to a mentally ill person with a gun threatened to shoot himself. After long term negotiations broke down, the police decided to enter his apartment where they were fired upon. The police shot the guy in the arm and hand.

Quote from the police afterwards: – This is a serious case of a person who is not well. We had to try and take care of him aswell.

- In 2002 a man attempted to rape and threatened to kill his landlord with a knife. She eascaped naked and bleeding, but he went out and grabbed a 12 year old kid to hold as hostage before the police arrived. After hours of negotiation they had to go in, and the police shot him twice in the legs.

- In 2010 a man was cooped up in his house with a gun and refused to come out. When he finally appeared he waived his gun at the police. They fired a warning shot which "of course wasn't aimed at the man". The case was resolved peacefully later.

- Also in 2010 a man charged two women with a knife. When they found the mans house, the police rang the door bell, but withdrew when the man came out and waived the knife at them. He went back in, but came out again later in a threatening way which lead to a warning shot being fired. Again he went back inside and was later convinced by family members to surrender peacefully.

So much MMQB in this thread and the Internet in general.

Regarding the shots to wound listed above, those actually sound like missed shots that happened to hit body parts. Seriously, you don't aim for a hand because it moves too much and is too small of a target and doesn't actually stop the perp. Two leg shots can actually be deadlier than a center mas wound as a femur shatter or femoral artery puncture can lead to death within minutes.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Suicide by cop is by far the most embarassing excuse I keep hearing. The fact that its a guaranteed way of dying and that people think its normal is horrifying.

Killing is just an accepted function of police in the U.S. now. When some people criticize the actions of those killed by police, it sounds like someone talking about a person who was killed by a bear or something, rather than by a human being.