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Old School Returns: Ms. Pac Man/Galaga Coin-Ops in JFK Terminal

Flynn

Member
Last week I was pleased to find one wing of the American Airlines Terminal of JFK brimming with the Ms. Pac-Man/Galaga 20th Anniversary arcade machine.

Walking out to the street I counted at least six of them, some right next to each other.

On my return flight I witnessed a family (father, son and daughter) and a group of business people playing the games. The suits were competing for top score on Ms Pac-Man. The father was schooling his kids in Galaga -- and they were actually interested!

I came this close to squirting out a tear of joy.

Could coin-op be making a comeback?
 

Flynn

Member
I noticed that Galaga had some insanely high scores posted.

Did the new "continue" feature raise the scoring ceiling or are there still some crazily good players out there?
 
Kobun Heat said:
And I only punched the machine like twice.

If you did that to mine.. I'd punch you! ^_^

Seriously though, the trick is to use both trakballs at once. In single player mode, both of them control the 1p ball.

Could coin-op be making a comeback?

I seriously doubt it, though it's cool to hear that an airport of all places had multiple machines. The truth of the matter is that Ms Pac-Man and Galaga are two of the only 'classics' (along with Centipede and a very small handful of others) that still earn well - like, up there with the current deer hunter games and pinball machines - in current bars and restaurants. After years of the Ms Pac market being dominated by classic arcade collectors restoring old machines (or in some cases building them from scratch) and selling them to distributors or directly to bars, sometimes for ridiculous prices (a couple of years ago it wasn't uncommon for a Ms Pac cocktail to hit $3000), Namco finally just reissued the game themselves. With really awful quality cabinet graphics, I must say. Look at one up-close - it's total inkjet quality, and rubs off even faster than the original art on the classic cabs.

There's definitely something to be said for witnessing a young kid getting really into a classic like Ms Pac-Man or Galaga, though, and it does tend to give one a little bit of hope. I don't think an arcade resurgence is out of the question, really. I just don't think the endless popularity of these particular games (well, now "this particular game") is the best measure of that.
 

Flynn

Member
bobbyconover said:
I just don't think the endless popularity of these particular games (well, now "this particular game") is the best measure of that.

Good point. Something about Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga's appeal are eternal. But there are others. A smart revival could be executed with anniversary editions or re-introductions of games as new as Bubble Bobble and as old as Pong.
 
Flynn said:
Good point. Something about Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga's appeal are eternal. But there are others. A smart revival could be executed with anniversary editions or re-introductions of games as new as Bubble Bobble and as old as Pong.

Totally. There are actually a couple of others floating around as well, such as this combination of Centipede, Millipede, Missile Command, and, uh, "Let's Go Bowling":

CMMB.jpg


But you said a "smart revival," so I guess this goesn't really apply. Though Space Invaders was re-issued (now with a 25" monitor) and seems to be doing fairly well, as has Dragon's Lair, and a series of Mame-in-the-arcade cabs called Ultracade have been doing decently as well. There's even some kind of new version of Mr. Do called "Mr. Do! Power Balls," though I've yet to check that one out.
 

Flynn

Member
bobbyconover said:
But you said a "smart revival," so I guess this goesn't really apply.

I sorta think it does. They know what kind of games people like. It's not that hard to figure out. Now smart placement in real life is the second step.

I think part of the problem is the beat-down mentality lots of coin-op people suffer. Getting games like these back into the modern-day equivalent of Pizza Hut...maybe a hip coffee chain or something, could be the next baby step.
 

dog$

Hates quality gaming
For Galaga at least, continuing doesn't erase the score.

I'm also not too sure about coin-op machines becoming more prevalent. There's many places (7-11's, food joints, doctors officies, Oasises (IL toolbooth-type stops), laundromats) that used to have a machine or two and now simply don't. Not to mention those high-concept turds like Dave&Busters or Gameworks taking away the market from old-fashioned arcades. I'm still pissed that Friar Tuck's has died.

What I more forsee is the café style of videogaming taking over. I'm not sure why someone just doesn't take XBox+Mame and put games in cabinets, and charge a flat rate for "Free Play".
 
Flynn said:
Could coin-op be making a comeback?

As much as I'd like to see it, I can't believe it's possible at this point. Now, when you start seeing coin-ops in most convenience stores again, I'll then believe it has a chance. I'm still hoping that pinball doesn't completely die off...though, it's still running on fumes currently.
 

Flynn

Member
I'm wondering if coin-ops need to be re-contextualized.

Do kids even hang out at convienience stores anymore? The only people that linger at the shops near me are homeless guys and panhandlers.
 

Belfast

Member
I'd like to see a revival in coin-ops, but this most likely would not be it. In order to create a revival, you need to have consumers thinking ahead. You can't fuel the industry on nostalgia alone or else you'll never be able to bring new games to market. I think the best chance at bringing arcades back is to continue to provide modes/features in the arcades that you can't get at home. Graphics, unfortunately, are no longer a big draw. However, let's look at the top 4 arcade setups in the US:

DDR - Konami's really banking on the home experience at this point, but still nothing beats a good arcade machine. All the songs, better pads, etc., etc. Plus, successfully recreating the arcade experience at home can be expensive.

Initial D - Competition and the card system. Sure, if you get Special Stage at home, you can practice and all, but the wheel + dual-cab + card system (which you'd never have at home) you can't.

Soul Calibur II - On its way out at this point, I think, it sustained itself for a long time in the arcades with Conquest mode, which you can't really replicate well at home.

Golden Tee - Not a fan of this, but apparently a lot of people are, especially in bars. There are tournaments for it, and a netlink mode, I believe, that can give updates on special events going on throughout the country.

Notice that all of these games generally promote having a greater penis size. Each one offers the distinct opportunity to publically show off how much better you are than everybody else. DDR tournaments seperate the losers from the winners (also losers, but you get the point ;)). Initial D allows people to compare the times and cars utilizing the card systems (my friends just love whipping their cards out of their wallets and showing them to other people when they find out they play, too). Soul Calibur allowed you to climb the ranks and lord over your own army. Golden Tee has people often competing for cash prizes.

In Japan, you see a similar tend - the increasing focus on card-based games (like Konami's Bemani EEmall system) and network games.

On a bit of a tangent, I think one of the reasons that DDR's popularity tanked in Japan was that it never evolved along with the rest of the Bemani games. It had virtually the same cabinet since it was introduced and, even in its later incarnations, never included the EEmall system. It was old technology and old gameplay, and people got tired of it. Perhaps if they had actively pushed it harder later in its life, they could still be producing new arcade versions.

Anyway, the key to an arcade revival, if it happens, can only be found in providing unique, competitive gameplay features that cannot be found/replicated very well at home. This has been the philosophy since the arcade's very inception. As the originator of the thread pointed out...those businessmen were actively trying to one-up eachother by getting a better score on Ms. Pac-Man. And just look at other games that were relatively popular in recent years, like The Grid.

The arcade industry really need to be rebuilt from the ground up. Most arcades need to purged of the large amount of absolute shit machines taking up space. By cutting out the crap, arcade owners can cut down on maintenance costs and perhaps put that money towards better games. Just as well, if arcade manufacturers want to cut down on the costs of making the machines, why not cannibalize the gazillion CarnEvil machines out there that nobody ever touches? Recycle them and make something new. :p Arcade owners also need to be informed. Most of them don't care, don't give a shit, leave games broken, and never listen to their customers. On top of that, they're usually very rude. I guess I would be, too, if my job was maintaining a crappy arcade, but they fail to realize they can make things better.

From this point, arcade games need to be rethought and restructured. You want to produce unique experiences, but these experiences NEED to be liked by the public. Also, its usually unwise to produce absurdly expensive machines. I saw games like Ferrari F355 or whatever at just about every arcade I went to for awhile. These hulking beasts were no doubt expensive, but nobody played them, either. They were expensive to play, too, and not very fun. Huge mistakes like that hurt consumer interest, arcade owner profits, and arcade manufacturer sales. Once you see how many recent projects have gone down this path, you start to get a picture as to how the arcade industry has fallen. When not ONE crucial party sees the interest in arcade gaming, then you've got a problem.

Also, purge the crappy pseudo-manufacturers coming out with shit like Invasion or Star Trek: Voyager. They're cheap, but don't make arcades look better and nobody wants to play them.

So the key ultimately falls in creating a fun and competitive experience at a reasonable price. Its not easy, but since arcade games are more specialized than console games, developers should be more cautious about what they put out anyway. One more thing companies could do, though its highly unlikely, is to hold back features or console releases intentionally, letting arcade versions take up the profit like they used to, and then later releasing the titles at home (if at all).

Will any of this happen? Probably not. The arcade thing is more a matter of pride at this point, and I doubt many companies would be willing to give up temporary profit to restructure the arcade industry over the long term. Still, I think its the only way, beside perhaps creating a LAN-center/arcade hybrid.
 
dog$ said:
For Galaga at least, continuing doesn't erase the score.

I'm also not too sure about coin-op machines becoming more prevalent. There's many places (7-11's, food joints, doctors officies, Oasises (IL toolbooth-type stops), laundromats) that used to have a machine or two and now simply don't. Not to mention those high-concept turds like Dave&Busters or Gameworks taking away the market from old-fashioned arcades. I'm still pissed that Friar Tuck's has died.

What I more forsee is the café style of videogaming taking over. I'm not sure why someone just doesn't take XBox+Mame and put games in cabinets, and charge a flat rate for "Free Play".

Galaga continueing high scores with continues (CONTINUES?) is weak! The only skill in that is who has the most quarters:(

XBox + MAME in cafes will never happen unless more companies license games. I see Capcom licenses some games to MAME builders and Atari has the service. But aside from those and possibly some roms that are in public domain, you'd be exposing yourself to major copyright infringement.

Edit: Although those 2 would still make a pretty good unit.
 

COCKLES

being watched
I saw a good one in Oxford Street aracade last year in London, was a machine that had a collection of all Capcom's classics like GNG, Street Fighter 2 ect.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Go to Grief Hot dogs in st. Marks in NYC. They have tables that are actually classic arcade games. Eat a hot dog while playing ms. pac-man...good times.
 

Prospero

Member
Interesting post, Belfast.

Belfast said:
I'd like to see a revival in coin-ops, but this most likely would not be it. In order to create a revival, you need to have consumers thinking ahead. You can't fuel the industry on nostalgia alone or else you'll never be able to bring new games to market. I think the best chance at bringing arcades back is to continue to provide modes/features in the arcades that you can't get at home.

One word: pinball. It seems to have almost completely disappeared, but whenever I'm lucky enough to come across a pinball machine these days, it always has at least three or four people gathered around it. Jokey "pinball" games for consoles and PCs just aren't the same.
 

FnordChan

Member
Prospero, I mourn the near-death of pinball. Video games are great and all, but pinball offers an experience you just can't play at home. You either have the whole machine right there in front of you, or you're out of luck.

In a similar vein, I was recently at an arcade auction and had a terrific time playing Pennant Fever, one of the old pitch-and-bat electromechanical games. Pinball may be tettering towards extinction, but these old games are deader than hell - which is a shame, 'cause I saw some kids at the same auction who were utterly enthralled with the 1970 Sega arcade game Gun Fight.

FnordChan
 

Belfast

Member
Prospero said:
Interesting post, Belfast.



One word: pinball. It seems to have almost completely disappeared, but whenever I'm lucky enough to come across a pinball machine these days, it always has at least three or four people gathered around it. Jokey "pinball" games for consoles and PCs just aren't the same.

Yeah, needless to say, I've thought about this a lot, considering a good deal of my free time has revolved around arcades for the past couple years.
 
Prospero said:
One word: pinball. It seems to have almost completely disappeared, but whenever I'm lucky enough to come across a pinball machine these days, it always has at least three or four people gathered around it. Jokey "pinball" games for consoles and PCs just aren't the same.

So elaborate - what's your big plan to get Pinball back into the mainstream? It's not like Williams/Bally didn't try desperately for years before finally going out of business, not to mention Stern (essentially the only pinball left alive today) for the last few years. They've been putting out great pins, most of which are designed by the legendary Pat Lawlor (the guy who designed Addams Family, Twilight Zone, Funhouse, and many/most of the other most popular pins of the 80s and 90s), and even those aren't selling to much of anyone besides bars and directly to collectors.

Obviously I'd (badly) like it to see a resurgence of pinball popularity as well, but I just don't see it suddenly happening.. Especially considering that the greatest pinball company of all time, by far, is no more.

You should really check out this interview with Steve Richie, who is pretty much the most famous pinball designer apart from Lawlor. Naka to Lawlor's Miyamoto, or something like that. He made pins like Firepower, Terminator 2, Star Trek the Next Generation, High Speed, etc. He's pessimistic to say the least ("I'm telling you, young people don't care about pinball ... I am a realist. I have lived it for 24 years and it's over"), but it's still an insanely lengthy and thorough examination of the pinball industry.

Steve Ritchie Interview Page 1
Steve Ritchie Interview Page 2

Who knows though, maybe things are looking up. Even Ritchie came out of retirement to design last year's Terminator 3 pin for Stern, so at the very least the two heaviest hitters are still semi-actively in the game - whatever game is left.
 

Belfast

Member
Yeah, pinball's neat, and I do play it on occassion if I actually see a machine, but that has a far less chance of a revival than even the arcade game industry. Its sad, but true. :(
 
Belfast said:
Yeah, pinball's neat, and I do play it on occassion if I actually see a machine, but that has a far less chance of a revival than even the arcade game industry. Its sad, but true. :(

At least if it keeps going the way it has been, yeah. I think the rub is the fact that pinball is so inherently complex, or at least that it has been for the last 20 years. Getting into it now is daunting to say the least - it's like trying to get into BEMANI games beginning with Pop'n Music 11. The hail storm of notes cascading down would scare off pretty much any novice player. But at least BEMANI games have beginner's modes - pins (as they currently exist) don't even really have the ability to have one of those.

For most of my childhood and teenage years I didn't even understand how exactly a pinball game was played, and I don't think most other people do either. They just put in a couple quarters, bat around the ball a bit, and then stop. In order to really become mainstream again, I think pinball would have to somehow start over in a way that's appealing to more novice players, or to people who have never played at all. They've been riding on the waning interest of the same people who were into it as kids - now nostalgic adults - for way too long. Of course, the problem there is that at least the old-timers bring some amount of guaranteed money. I doubt if a company like Stern could launch some kind of radical new pinball game that appeals to the masses, since the risk of failure would be far too great and they're already on extremely shakey ground to begin with. It'd sure be awesome if it were somehow pulled off, though.
 

Prospero

Member
bobbyconover said:
So elaborate - what's your big plan to get Pinball back into the mainstream?

Well, I don't have a plan, or otherwise I'd be running my own extremely profitable pinball arcade. But we won't let that stop us from rampant speculation.

IIRC, one of the primary things that caused the decline of the pinball industry wasn't just that videogames were the flashy new thing, but that they had a lower failure rate for parts and were therefore more economically viable. Star Trek: The Next Generation (mentioned in the Steve Ritchie interview), one of the last truly great pinball machines I played, was excellent, if you could find one that was working. As cool as it was, it had so many mechanical doodads stuffed into it that it was bound to break down more often than not.

On the other hand, Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness (They were both by the same designer, right? They seemed as if they were.) almost never broke down in my experience. Those machines had a good balance between mechanical and electronic components, and playfields that were relatively simple but still provided interesting rulesets. It seemed like in the final years of the heyday of pinball there were more overteched than reliable games, and games that tried to be more like combination video games than pinball machines, than there were purist pinball machines. (Even Attack From Mars had a videogame mini-game in it, I think--it's been a while since I've played it.)

Given Belfast's description of current arcades, in which they're filled with machines that take up too much space that no one plays, and that aren't well maintained, it seems as if a pinball machine that could make the promise of a relatively low failure rate compared to what's currently in arcades could appeal to proprietors. I think these days half the time I see a DDR machine it has a malfunctioning panel, or half the time I see a House of the Dead machine it has a piece of paper taped over its monitor saying it's out of order. Pinball machines would take up less space than most light-gun games--if I never see another light-gun game again, I'd be fine with that.

Of course, given Ritchie's stories of the pinball manufacturing business, lowering the failure rate for parts seems unlikely. It may be impossible, for all I know, in which case I'll have to shell out the money for my own machine once I move to a place where I've got room for one.
 

Belfast

Member
bobbyconover said:
At least if it keeps going the way it has been, yeah. I think the rub is the fact that pinball is so inherently complex, or at least that it has been for the last 20 years. Getting into it now is daunting to say the least - it's like trying to get into BEMANI games beginning with Pop'n Music 11. The hail storm of notes cascading down would scare off pretty much any novice player. But at least BEMANI games have beginner's modes - pins (as they currently exist) don't even really have the ability to have one of those.

For most of my childhood and teenage years I didn't even understand how exactly a pinball game was played, and I don't think most other people do either. They just put in a couple quarters, bat around the ball a bit, and then stop. In order to really become mainstream again, I think pinball would have to somehow start over in a way that's appealing to more novice players, or to people who have never played at all. They've been riding on the waning interest of the same people who were into it as kids - now nostalgic adults - for way too long. Of course, the problem there is that at least the old-timers bring some amount of guaranteed money. I doubt if a company like Stern could launch some kind of radical new pinball game that appeals to the masses, since the risk of failure would be far too great and they're already on extremely shakey ground to begin with. It'd sure be awesome if it were somehow pulled off, though.

Thing is, exactly how DO you dumb down a pinball game? As you said, you can't really have a beginner's mode (maybe you give them more balls, but lessen point values so that it can't be used as a way to cheat high scores?). I admit I wonder if the later pinball machines with the 3d video screens worked so well. They were fairly complex, especially having to learn each of the little mini-games, and its a lot harder to hit something intangible, there's just no tactile response there.

I guess some machines ARE more complex than the others, but there's no way to learn, but to play.....and anyone wonder if Pop N Music would do well over here? I love it, my friends love it, even if most of them really suck at playing, they're still entertained by the characters and music and such. Of course, Konami's US arcade division is closed, but I wonder if there'd be anyway to convince arcade owners to import more PopN machines. If DDR doesn't get any new arcade versions, its going to stagnate in the US after awhile, too, and then we'll be SoL.
 

FnordChan

Member
Belfast said:
Thing is, exactly how DO you dumb down a pinball game?

Basically, have a relatively clean playfield. Some pinball machines from the late 90s were completely cluttered with all sorts of crap, which I can see as being daunting.

FnordChan
 

Anyanka

Member
That Steve Richie interview is interesting. Cool to see him mention that he is the infamous voice of Shao Kahn in the MK games. He's wrong about that though, he says he did the first two games when he actually did II and 3.
 
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