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[UbiSoftologist]

Source: The Wall Street Journal's ''Heard On The Street'' column

Apple Explores Use Of Chips From Intel For Macintosh Line

By DON CLARK and NICK WINGFIELD
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
May 23, 2005; Page C1

Apple Computer Inc. has always blazed its own trail, a tack that has helped turn the company into a stock-market darling lately. But a pivotal step toward the mainstream could be in the offing.

The computer maker has been in talks that could lead to a decision soon to use Intel Corp. chips in its Macintosh computer line, industry executives say, a prospect that may shake up the world of computers and software.

The idea that Apple Computer might use Intel-based products, which provide processing power for personal computers that use Microsoft Corp. software, has long been the subject of industry speculation and off-and-on negotiations between Apple and Intel. Two industry executives with knowledge of recent discussions between the companies said Apple will agree to use Intel chips.

Neither company would confirm any change in their relationship. Nor is it clear, if Apple does proceed with plans to work with Intel, whether it will make a large-scale shift away from chips made by International Business Machines Corp., its longtime supplier. Talks between Apple and Intel could founder, as they have before, or Apple could be engaging in negotiations with Intel to gain leverage over IBM.

Still, Apple's consideration of Intel chips reflects what others in Silicon Valley see as a crescendo of commercial considerations for both companies. For Apple, which has struggled to expand beyond a tiny sliver of the PC market, adopting Intel chips would help ensure that future Macintosh systems meet the price and performance of products from tough rivals such as Dell Inc.

Macintosh users, for example, could benefit by getting access to Intel's power-saving chips for laptop computers and other new chips that offer the equivalent of two electronic brains on a single piece of silicon. Apple's pricing, which has often been higher than rivals, also could be more competitive -- particularly if Intel provides the kind of marketing subsidies it has given to other computer makers.

Using Intel chips also makes it at least theoretically possible that users could install Windows on Macintosh systems, though it is not clear that Apple will support software other than its Mac OS X operating system.

For Intel, already the dominant supplier of the calculating engines inside computers, winning Apple would be a prestigious endorsement from one of technology's most influential trend-setters. Under Steve Jobs, Apple's chief executive officer and co-founder, Apple has consistently delivered innovative hardware designs and blazed a trail in digital music.

Apple sells only about three million computers a year -- a small portion of the 200 million or so machines sold globally -- so a new relationship with Intel wouldn't increase that company's sales much. But Intel, which has long courted Apple, could benefit by an association with Apple and its hit iPod device, which may be luring more Windows PC users to consider Apple computer products. It could also continue the perception of momentum that has made Apple shares nearly quadruple since the iPod was introduced in October 2001...

...An Apple spokeswoman said she would characterize the possibility of adopting Intel chips "in the category of rumor and speculation."

Apple could choose to add some Intel-based models to its product line or make a complete shift to Intel's chip technology. The latter would be a serious blow to IBM's microprocessor business, though the big computer maker has had success in convincing Microsoft, Sony Corp. and Nintendo Co. to use PowerPC technology in their next-generation video machines. An IBM spokesman declined to comment...

Apple's bread-and-butter Mac business has shown signs of vigor lately. While growth in the broader PC industry remains sluggish, Apple last quarter sold 43% more Macs than it did in the year-earlier quarter, quadruple the pace of the industry as a whole.

Yet, in a sign of how small a player Apple remains in the PC market, the strong sales have translated into only minuscule market-share gains. Apple rose to 2.3% of new world-wide PC sales in the first three months of the year from 2% the prior quarter. Windows PCs account for the vast majority of the rest of the market.

 

[Laurent]

This is so gaming related it makes me shivers...

 

[DECK'ARD]

This rumour surfaces every 6 months, year-in, year-out, and nothing ever comes of it.

 

[goodcow]

Wouldn't Apple have to completely re-code all their products to work on Intel chips?

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Wouldn't Apple have to completely re-code all their products to work on Intel chips?

Yes, but the benefits of doing so are 100x+1,000,000 million to the consumer.

 

[fse]

Won't happen.

 

[aoi tsuki]

i'm sure this has been asked before in similar threads, but wouldn't that mean OSX would essentially be able to be made to run on x86 machines?

 

[fse]

i'm sure this has been asked before in similar threads, but wouldn't that mean OSX would essentially be able to be made to run on x86 machines?

Apple would probably want them to make a faster custom chip.

 

[The End]

i'm sure this has been asked before in similar threads, but wouldn't that mean OSX would essentially be able to be made to run on x86 machines?

Apple has been keeping a x86-compatible version of OSX up to date since day one for this very reason.

 

[fse]

Apple has been keeping a x86-compatible version of OSX up to date since day one for this very reason.

:lol

 

[fugimax]

Wouldn't Apple have to completely re-code all their products to work on Intel chips?

I believe they maintain an x86 version currently anyways. Much like Microsoft maintains a lot of their code for PPC too.

 

[Supasso]

I hope that this means a Mac OS that runs on x86 platform, and a Mac machines that run Windows.

 

[golem]

now thats betrayalaton

 

[frunty]

Apple could choose to add some Intel-based models to its product line or make a complete shift to Intel's chip technology. The latter would be a serious blow to IBM's microprocessor business, though the big computer maker has had success in convincing Microsoft, Sony Corp. and Nintendo Co. to use PowerPC technology in their next-generation video machines.

It wouldn't be as big of a blow as the article makes it sound. A good number of IBM servers would still use their chips, and the game consoles alone would far eclipse the number of Macs sold. PS2 has sold around 89 million consoles this gen, and with all three next-gen players using IBM CPUs the 3 million computers Apple ships yearly would be a comparative drop in the bucket.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

A friend of mine who worked at Apple way back when ported System 7 to Intel (and they game him a Newton as a bonus for it). This is nothing new.

 

[aoi tsuki]

now thats betrayalaton

Please stop.

 

[ckohler]

i'm sure this has been asked before in similar threads, but wouldn't that mean OSX would essentially be able to be made to run on x86 machines?

Yes, as well as all third party applications. Especially those that use Velocity Engine instructions (which is most).

Now, I believe OSX supports "dual-bytecode" executibles (that might not be the name)... which allows one .app bundle to include code that runs on multiples processors.

Also it's been a sort of a "common knowledge rumor" for a long time that Apple keeps an Intel version of OSX around. All you have to do is snoop around in OSX itself and the developer tools to see the hints of this. They also have also hinted to Intel builds of the OS (not for public use) in past OSX beta development releases.

Still, I just don't see this happening.

 

[HokieJoe]

Apple is goofy for not licensing their OS years ago anyway. And yes, the OS is X86 compatible (Darwin).

BTW, I used to own an LC, so don't be hatin' on me.

 

[goodcow]

Apple has been keeping a x86-compatible version of OSX up to date since day one for this very reason.

And all their software such as Final Cut?

 

[fse]

It's not true

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

This rumor has been going on for the last 5 years lol

 

[SKOPE]

And all their software such as Final Cut?

Emulation or dynamic recompilation. The same way the Mac transitioned from 680x0 to PowerPC processors.

I don't see this happening. Apple weathered the Motorola incompetency saga and IBM's work with the console manufacturers could benefit Macs greatly. Not to mention the drop in OS and application performance until developers port and optimize their code for a completely different line of processors.

 

[Tarazet]

I've never made it to the end of a thread ckohler has posted in.

 

[ckohler]

Yes, as well as all third party applications. Especially those that use Velocity Engine instructions (which is most).

Just to clarify my previous post, I thought he was asking if OSX would need to be recompiled for Intel and I was stating that yes, it does along with all third party applications. I doubt an Intel based OSX would ever be allowed to run on a standard PC since Apple makes its bread and butter off hardware sales, not software.

And... just what's wrong with my avatar?! Can't handle a little cartoon cat dancing? :lol

 

[Tarazet]

Just to clarify my previous post, I thought he was asking if OSX would need to be recompiled for Intel and I was stating that yes, it does along with all third party applications. I doubt an Intel based OSX would ever be allowed to run on a standard PC since Apple makes its bread and butter off hardware sales, not software.

I'm pretty sure Apple makes more profit from their software than they do from their hardware, except maybe the iPod.

And... just what's wrong with my avatar?! Can't handle a little cartoon cat dancing? :lol

No, it's not that I can't handle it...

 

[hooo]

Wouldn't Apple have to completely re-code all their products to work on Intel chips?

Or they could just recompile. Any bits of a program written at the processor level (assembly) would of course have to be rewritten, but the locations of code like that should be well known and used sparsely in the OS. It's doubtful that any applications do any assembly so a recompile would be all that's needed.

Really though, Apple switching to a different chip really wouldn't change anything. They're the console maker of the computer world. They make closed systems where all software is made by just a few vendors. Their marketing is all about style and never about specs. That's really why I won't ever buy an Apple product. I like technology being used as a fashion statement and if I want to buy a computer, I'll buy a computer, not Apple's console.

 

[ckohler]

By your logic, usability is a fashion style. Ever stop to consider that people who use and/or prefer Macs simply prefer the way they work over a PC? I certainly do. They may have more style than a PC but that doesn't mean they can't do serious work also.

 

[Hitokage]

There's more to a computer than raw performance, and your idea of a "computer" is rather PC-centric.

Also, the article's comparison to Dell makes it kinda bogus. If anybody makes overpriced pieces of shit, it's them. (eg. managing to pair a P4 with PC133 SDRAM, I shit you not)

 

[tedtropy]

There's more to a computer than raw performance, and your idea of a "computer" is rather PC-centric.

Also, the article's comparison to Dell makes it kinda bogus. If anybody makes overpriced pieces of shit, it's them. (eg. managing to pair a P4 with PC133 SDRAM, I shit you not)

Shit? Yeah, sometimes, but you'll be hard-pressed to find a cheaper computer with better support than Dell.

 

[Phoenix]

Apple creates other products that use chips (iPod, other consumer electronics devices they have planned). Any of these devices could be the reason Apple is talking to Intel. In fact, one of the most popular mobile processors out there is an Intel chip. I think it more likely that Apple would be pursuing Intel for this type of technology than one to replace its mainstream IBM supplied processors.

 

[goomba]

Ridiculous

Go from G5's to x86 ? :lol

Thats like going from a ferrari to a ford