What would today’s computers and phones be like without Apple?

Would laptops, tablets and phones be completely different if Apple never existed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 34.6%
  • No

    Votes: 51 65.4%

  • Total voters
    78
Having worked in windows mobile during pocket pc through us finally giving up on the phone, this thread is threatening my mental health ;)

Never used Windows Mobile before version 7, but I've got to say what a huge aesthetic downgrade 7 was compared to 6. It went from XP style to something that was knocked up in Windows Paint

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Not knocking the OS itself, big improvement in terms of controls and navigation.
 
I think Steve Jobs was good at two things. One: he would really push the 'keep it simple, stupid' philosophy on the hardware and software engineers at Apple computers. Computer hardware that was simple to set up, operating systems that didn't require a manual to understand. The original iOS was one or two layers deep when it comes to menu systems. The whole system was easy to understand.

The second thing he was good at, was being a pitch man. Meaning that he could almost sell anyone on anything.

I think Apple brought a lot of conveniences to the home computer and phone market that were adopted by other tech companies. No I am not crediting Apple for creating the home computer, or the OS. Xerox PARC was a great innovator in a lot of this tech and concepts. IBM innovated a lot of stuff. Microsoft could bring together engineers to inviolate a lot of things. But Apple was good at bring convinces to the computer and later phone world. But unfortunately it was always at a premium price tag.



1983 - LisaOS
Xerox were actually the first company to come up with these devices concept of the mouse and GUI but Apple were the first to launch the tech, and developed it to work in a way that persists today.

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Throughout most of the 1980's, 90's and early 00's, Steve Jobs and many other tech oriented people were obsessed with bringing Alan Kay's Dynabook concept into fruition. The Dynabook was conceived all the way back in 1972 at Xerox PARC. Apples first real attempt at creating a Dynabook was the Apple Newton in 1992. Steve Jobs considered the iPAD to be a fleshed out version of the Dynabook. Lots of computer companies were working towards this...

Dynabook.png
 
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I think Steve Jobs was good at two things. One: he would really push the 'keep it simple, stupid' philosophy on the hardware and software engineers at Apple computers. Computer hardware that was simple to set up, operating systems that didn't require a manual to understand. The original iOS was one or two layers deep when it comes to menu systems. The whole system was easy to understand.

The second thing he was good at, was being a pitch man. Meaning that he could almost sell anyone on anything.

I think Apple brought a lot of conveniences to the home computer and phone market that were adopted by other tech companies. No I am not crediting Apple for creating the home computer, or the OS. Xerox PARC was a great innovator in a lot of this tech and concepts. IBM innovated a lot of stuff. Microsoft could bring together engineers to inviolate a lot of things. But Apple was good at bring convinces to the computer and later phone world. But unfortunately it was always at a premium price tag.






Throughout most of the 1980's, 90's and early 00's, Steve Jobs and many other tech oriented people were obsessed with bringing Alan Kay's Dynabook concept into fruition. The Dynabook was conceived all the way back in 1972 at Xerox PARC. Apples first real attempt at creating a Dynabook was the Apple Newton in 1992. Steve Jobs considered the iPAD to be a fleshed out version of the Dynabook. Lots of computer companies were working towards this...

Dynabook.png
Yeah, if my 68 year old mom and dad can use a device (iPhone), you know it's a brilliant design, they're fucking morons when it comes to tech, they're morons in many other aspects, tech especially.
 
Lol who answered "no" to this? Literally all modern cell phones are based around and evolved from the original iPhone model. I had smartphones before the iPhone, and without that, we were not headed in this direction.

Laptops probably wouldn't be much different, though.
 
It took a few years before the iPhone was considered to be 'good', I remember a lot of people slated it for only featuring 2G data and a 2 Megapixel camera, along with no expandable storage, something which is still an issue today. In comparison the Sony Ericsson K850 came out the same year which gave you a 5MP camera, 3G UMTS and expandable storage, and it could run Java apps that were a lot more common. Other phones like the Nokia N95. LG Viewty and the Samsung G600 were similar in specs but were considered superior to the iPhone.
It wasn't until the 3GS were Apple got the hardware right, of which by that time their iOS and app ecosystem had matured.
 
Of course and to say Apple didnt heavily influence both is just being stupid.
 
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Someone on here the other day mentioned the guy who invented the blue LED, that's the guy to thank for the modern world and all these fancy phone, pc and tv screens.
 
Without Apple you'd be able to plug your phone in via USB and easily drag\drop photos and other media to your PC without needing to install some fetid piece of shit everything app.
iPhones use USB-C as the standard.
Also they use AirDrop which is way better than drag n drop. No additional software required. Can even use it on TV's.
 
We have the same discussion with Nintendo. Did Nintendo invent the analog stick? No, but they where the first to implement it in a controller for a successfull console. Same goes for rumble, wireless controllers, the d-pad, etc. etc. etc.

Its like standing before a simple piece of art, saying "Oh, I could have done that as well" - sure, but you didnt.

Rumble was implemented by Sony in the Dual Analog Controller that launched in Japan one day before the N64 RumblePak launched.
 
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PC would probably be the same, smartphones would take longer to become what they are, iPhone in 2007 felt like some crazy tech from the future, Android took until mid 2010s to not be garbage

Nokia's Internet tablets say otherwise.

Sony and Sony Ericsson were also doing some very interesting designs at the time.

Fujitsu were doing some funky stuff in the Japanese market, and were a leading TabletPC maker.
 
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To echo, at a practical level not much would be different. If it wasn't Apple, no doubt it would have been someone else. What might be different is the aesthetic of the marketing. Even then, would other companies have simply adopted those aesthetics from the thinkers who thought of them?
 
But you know when they do get around to it, they'll do it right, and it won't be like the ones that exist today.
Seriously you guys cling to this narrative like a drowning man to a piece of driftwood. The ones that exist today are already done right, not even a millimeter thicker than a slab phone, barely visible crease, awesome multitasking, durable with good cameras. If you guys weren't so insular you would know that.
 
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Seriously you guys cling to this narrative like a drowning man to a piece of driftwood. The ones that exist today are already done right, not even a millimeter thicker than a slab phone, barely visible crease, awesome multitasking, durable with good cameras. If you guys weren't so insular you would know that.
I've heard about creasing issues from all of them, some just take longer to show up.
 
The iPhone is what ushered in the usage of internet on smartphones. Before it there wasn't any need for the general customer to have anything except WAP. It was exciting to live right at that age and also when tablets became a thing. I think we'd have gotten more exciting stuff if Jobs had kept on living. He was a very unique person with an incredibly intuitive understanding of tech and humans.
 
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I've heard about creasing issues from all of them, some just take longer to show up.
I have a twofold question. Do you think the Chinese aren't working on eliminating the crease and do you think Apple will beat them to the punch? Innovation is expensive and Apple is very beholden to their shareholders. This is the reason they don't have the best camera sensors on the market in their iphones.
 
I have a twofold question. Do you think the Chinese aren't working on eliminating the crease and do you think Apple will beat them to the punch? Innovation is expensive and Apple is very beholden to their shareholders. This is the reason they don't have the best camera sensors on the market in their iphones.
They no doubt are, question is if Apple will use a different approach to solving it.
 
The only approach to eliminating the crease is pouring money into R&D. Money that could be going to higher shareholder returns who knows if it's worth it to Tim Apple. Im sure Steve Jobs would have done it. Apple was more innovative under him.
 
everyone copied xerox with computers.
It's crazy when you think about how Xerox was just sitting on the entire future of home computing with their Xerox PARC group, and yet they had no idea what to do with any of it. It has been said in the past, that Xerox could have owned the entire computer industry. But they were happy with sticking to photo copying and digital press. Which is still viable. They were the ones who showed off the OS and mouse to Apple. I think they ended up getting Apple stock options in return.
 
I really can't recommend this book enough. It's one of the best biographies I've read. It's entertaining from beginning to end and really makes you appreciate what an unique individual he was. It also gives you a sense of the Silicon Valley mentality.

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You think Apple phones were advanced? You should have seen the phones Japan was putting out. They had some kick ass products and really cool ideas.. In my opinion, they are so quick to embrace Western Culture that I think they could have kicked ass in the phone market if they told Apple to go to hell.
Please elaborate, this sounds very interesting. Are you talking about software or hardware for example?
 
I think the mobile market would've definitely been vastly different if the iPhone never came out. I think it would've gotten there eventually. The laptop/desktop experience? I think it will be similar since a bunch of the Apple stuff was an extension of Xerox Parc's designs.
 
You think Apple phones were advanced? You should have seen the phones Japan was putting out. They had some kick ass products and really cool ideas.. In my opinion, they are so quick to embrace Western Culture that I think they could have kicked ass in the phone market if they told Apple to go to hell.

Japan's Galapagos phones were impressive in the early 00s, that's it.

The iPhone caught them off guard just as much as it did Nokia, Palm and BlackBerry. Despite this the Japanese reluctantly stuck to their flip phones (as did much of their industry).

Now iPhone dominates Japan.
 
If Apple never existed I imagine you'd have had a more fragmented market - more companies making strange hardware with their own esoteric graphical user interfaces. I base that on how the Lisa standardized the desktop operating system and how the iPhone standardized the smartphone design.

But there was that unique moment from the early 2000's until the iPhone where phones came in all kinds of strange designs with their own weird operating systems. I imagine something like that over the entire computing industry from the 80's onwards without Apple.
 
We have the same discussion with Nintendo. Did Nintendo invent the analog stick? No, but they where the first to implement it in a controller for a successfull console. Same goes for rumble, wireless controllers, the d-pad, etc. etc. etc.
Pretty sure Nintendo were the first to use a d-pad with their Game & Watch portables, no?
 
Japan's Galapagos phones were impressive in the early 00s, that's it.

The iPhone caught them off guard just as much as it did Nokia, Palm and BlackBerry. Despite this the Japanese reluctantly stuck to their flip phones (as did much of their industry).

Now iPhone dominates Japan.
When you consider that the Japanese won't buy Samsung smartphones because they are Korean and Sharp and Sony phones aren't great and they're expensive. The market share isn't that impressive. Another funny thing is the Japanese use Line instead ibubble or whatever it's adoption rate is over 70%.
What's Apple's market share in the world's largest smartphone market? Are they even in the top 5? Just for context I don't hate Apple I hate their insufferable fans.
 
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I really can't recommend this book enough. It's one of the best biographies I've read. It's entertaining from beginning to end and really makes you appreciate what an unique individual he was. It also gives you a sense of the Silicon Valley mentality.

8tG20Qs.jpeg



Please elaborate, this sounds very interesting. Are you talking about software or hardware for example?
Both. Before I had kids my wife and I would go fairly often to Japan and I would always scope out the phones and bring back stuff with me from Docomo and such. They were already streaming videos to their phones early 2000s and their hardware allowed you to film and adjust you phone like a view finder hardware wise. I'll see if I can dig up some of the pamphlets. Not only this but they were able to do what appeared to be software shell customizations. While we, in the states, initially targetted the IT market, they were focused on the consumer market (because we were working with Japan together windows mobile in the it market there.)
I would come back with the pamphlets and put them outside my office door telling people, Come see what they are doing in the consumer market. I would talk to the docomo reps while I was in Japan and it amazed me to see what they were doing at the time.
 
Oooh in addition, it was around this time where they were pumping out tiny ass phones, but the even back then I think they were putting out megapixel picture quality. It might not sound like much but during this time it was almost a contest to see who could put out the smallest/ thinnest phones...
 
Oooh in addition, it was around this time where they were pumping out tiny ass phones, but the even back then I think they were putting out megapixel picture quality. It might not sound like much but during this time it was almost a contest to see who could put out the smallest/ thinnest phones...
In 2007 the original iPhone had a 2 megapixel the Nokia n95 had a 5 megapixel camera. I get giving credit where credit is due but this is ridiculous. Today anyone who has used a flagship Chinese phone knows how bad Iphone's cameras are. Don't take my word for it go on YouTube and check iPhone vs. pretty much any Chinese flagship phone.

 
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Oooh in addition, it was around this time where they were pumping out tiny ass phones, but the even back then I think they were putting out megapixel picture quality. It might not sound like much but during this time it was almost a contest to see who could put out the smallest/ thinnest phones...
I love reading about early 00's/pre iPhone tech. I got a Nokia 7650 and was the first one in my school with a camera phone. This was in Sweden around 2003. Students from other classes would come to me to look at it. A teacher even banned it from school because I once used a free version of a program that would distort how people looked but it wasn't able to snap pictures. But I guess some classmates didn't appreciate me and my friends pointing it towards them and laughing. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

It even had Symbian OS so I tried out all manner of apps and games. In many ways I find the homogenization of phone technology a very unfortunate consequence of iOS and Android. Microsoft at least tried their own thing with Windows Phones, but they didn't get enough apps so it never panned out. Makes you wonder what cool stuff we'd see today if there were more big players on the market. At least Samsung does fun stuff like Dex with their phones.
 
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Wouldn't make a difference to Microsoft and Windows and PC's in general, they were always different anyway and in the 90's, Apple was nowhere until Steve Jobs came back in and took over, Apple was always a really closed system and no good for PC gaming.
 
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It would be the same. Since the creation of the internet, all the later gadgets were just a question of time, regardless of who invented them first.
 
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